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Orick

Tank Builds

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Ok... I ignore most everyone in the game and stay off chan because the whiners in the game annoy me but i have now noticed that i miss a few things in the game that might have been nice to know...

 

First is my account is passably the most hated account by radu(as far as builds goes)... this is new to me, talking to him i have found out that i am "that guy" that pisses him off

 

For those of you who dont know me, i am Orick in the game as well as on the forums, i have played this game for more years then i cair to admit and i am mostly known for my large a/d gap...

 

Oricks stats are 47 att and 138 def and no that is not a typo, i am a Tank build and have spent many hours and ings getting those lvls(or not getting them)

 

This Post is mostly because i would like to know why you, Radu, and others hate the Tank build so much and to also tell you why i chose to build a Tank

 

I have had more account in this game then i can even remember, i have made some, bought some, and sold a lot... i have played more years then i can remember and have exp in many different type of accounts, from Mixers to PK Kings to all rounders... i have seen just about every change the game has gone threw and i still play it and dont whine and tell everyone im going to quit and throw a fit and say radu is ruining the game like almost every other player that has been around as long as i have. I have always thought that the changes were another way to spice things up and change the game and make it more fun, and having dont so much in the game i have picked PK as my favorite thing in the game to do... a few years back when i started to pk all my friends, suck as Luci, Ozmo, Mufo, Smee, Pinky, V, SenZ, and many other i consider to be my ingame friends, power lvled there account to lvls that way out did most of the other players in the game and they found out that no one liked to fight them, they would enter a PK arena or map and everyone would run away... This to me was no fun at all... so i started to think of what i could do to get more fights but still be able to play with the pr0s when they came in, and i came up with the build that people later called the Tank build... after some trial and error on many accounts i made Orick it was MUCH harder then anyone had realized to keep a low enough att but a high enough def to train creatures without killing them to fast or being ignored... but with hard work and grinding in areas most people avoid such as thel Pk area, multy cycs in EP, and Imbroglio islands Pk area finaly come close to being able get a good amount of xp and train for more then 30 mins at a time,due to low emu or being serped or PKed, and the ignore lvls are changed... this like all other changes i accept, but, i would like to know why it is so bad to have a build like mine? especialy because people keep PMing me asking "why does he hate your training style so much?"

 

now sorry if that is so jumbled and sorry i cant spell worth a damn but if you understand what i am saying then please talk about it

Edited by Orick

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Well the spawns part is obvious, no?

There's limited spawns, the more you occupy, the more percentage of available creatures you take up, the less there is for everyone else. So the more mobs you have on you, the more you impact everyone else's exp making ability.

 

On a PK map ofc, no one should get long-term annoyed with you, if they don't like what you're doing they can attack you.

 

As for Radu hating you, I have no idea why. Logic dictates that if Radu "hates" the way a player utilises part of the EL system, then he'd change the system so it can't be utilised that way. I'm eager to hear his response also.

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I also have no idea whatsoever, why the ignore level of a fluffy has been reduced to whatever it is now - fluffies are much stronger than cyclopses (IMHO), yet the latter attack me at will (and will continue to do so for some time) while fluffies stay away from me now.

Makes no sense to me at all from any game-mechanic/role-play-perspective :confused: - other than for the purpose of very selectivly "disabling" certain training areas or styles.

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Interesting post.

First off, I'd like to comment that you aren't the only one who has or has had this build type. I see it as a problem for these reasons:

 

1. afk training (seriously I hate this, if you aren't interested enough to be present to play, you should not be getting experience)

2. MASSIVE amounts of experience...6-8 feros on you at once? (if anybody has a definite feros count in bethel cave, I'd like to know, it seems like there's more than 6 but I can't figure that out in that cave :P )

3. hogging of all the spawns in a given area.

 

Point I need to make here: Orick has always been polite and offered me a spawn spot if I've arrived and he's got them all. That said, it's still annoying really. I dislike having to go through all that, serp him to get them, or figure out which belong to which spawn and all the time that entails. It implies that they are all "his" and he's being generous to offer me some.

 

Also of note some others have been working on this build and are not so polite and in fact are were downright rude and nasty.

 

So I agree with radu's reasoning to reduce the ignore levels but I agree with korrode that maybe the system should be changed because at this rate, the average noob will be ignored by yeti like I am (which I find absurd). Of course I say that in ignorance of knowing what that entails or what would be better. I also know how easy it is to have the best laid plans have unimagined or unintended side effects. People need to realize this when changes are made and not complain all the time about them.

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With all due respect to everyone's opinion on this, it pissed me off when people say it is AFK exp, hogging all spawns, especially Massive exp.

 

While you may think it's "easy" exp, training chars like this is hell. Getting all stats to the point that you can start these type of builds. Getting GC to afford the amount of resources this uses. Getting enough time on your hands to calc what and when you should attack to not get any type of attack exp and etc. You get serped so easly, it is very hard to get a 3-8x spawn . . nearly impossible, I nearly garantee you that the only time Orick does this multi is at a epic late time zone when there is nearly non on/training. So this is how it should be if it really bothers you, Players you see someone training with more then 1x creature on them, serp. Devs, you see that the game was not meant to be this way? Remove multi spawns, remove multi combat maps . . Just one question, if training with more than one creature on you is "wrong", why add there is no fork perk at all? Cause all I see here is a handful of smart players using a perk the to their advantage. It's not like they are using the old TS affect, when something that was meant to be negative but using it to your advantage. They just use a 7 PP Positive perk to their advantage.

 

~SenZ

 

P.S. I don't have a Tank build, tried it once. Was too hard, can't stay over 20 minutes at a spawn was like suicide :s

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I dont complain about tank builds, but i do see as absurd that people with really low level get ignored by strong mobs. The only solution i see to that is to implement a double ignore system: a reasonable combat level AND a defense level, the lower of both limits would make the mob to ignore the player... I've been told that is "too difficult to implement", and i don't know much of programming maybe it is; or just maybe is matter to create a complex maths formula?

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Only thing I'll never understand is TINF perk, if multi isn't "accepted" what's the point of it? PK/Invasian only? Why not training ..

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Well, if someone's grabbing all the spawns, I'd say there's no one else training in that area (you can't run after a monster if you're engaged in a fight, so the monster passed close enough to engage you). So starting multi-train shouldn't cause a problem. Unless we start reasoning like: "He's alone now, but someone else might come by in 5, 10, 60 min, so we can't allow multi training". I agree that later, when a second trainer comes by, releasing a monster should be automatic, no need for asking (but that's a nice theory...)

 

Personally, I don't see a problem with multi-training when the trainer is alone in an area, or polite about it. Most pay for the possibility one way or another, and if not, more power to them.

 

@Aislinn: if Orick was able to offer you a spawn when you arrived, he was clearly not training AFK...

And yes, it is annoying if someone has grabbed all the spawns while he was alone, but then again, he was alone, so not hurting anyone (any players, at least).

 

But if multi-training is to be made more difficult, would it be possible to use a modifier to the ignore calculation? One way could be with a multiplier for every opponent engaged: say a factor of 1.2, so if ignore is def-based, def 50 will count as 60 for ignoring, while you're fighting any monster, 72 while fighting 2 monsters etc. And the multiplier would take effect whenever you are fighting (so that rabbit that came by makes the yeti you're after ignore you). That way, ignore levels would stay the same, but multi training would be a lot more difficult, especially AFK multi (which seems to be the most objected to). Although this would not make multi completely impossible, depending on how it would be implemented, it would make it a lot riskier.

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I have been building a tank for awhile, and it is not nearly as easy as some think. In game name is Tank_Rabbit. I have 38/100 a/d and I trained in thelinor on fluffs/feros prior to the most recent update.

 

No one other than myself and orick trained in that area. Usually the only people I saw were coming specifically to serp or pk me. When I did get serped or pked, I took it in stride and tried again later. Now that I cannot train in Thelinor, I have to train in areas frequented by others which means less spawn time for me since I typically let others take them if they ask. To be honest, I have basically stopped training.

 

My emu is 240, so less than 200 after armour is taken out. I cannot stay on a spawn long if I do not have friends helping me bring ings to heal with. Part of this build is keeping your damage low so you hit less with your crits. Because of this, very few builds like mine exist.

 

When I first started training in thelinor, I used upwards of 1.5-2k he PER hour. The experience was nice and I did not piss people off while I was training, so I found it acceptable. That is almost a restore every 8 seconds. I had to keep loads of emps with me to keep my mana up. I could make it slightly better wearing an SoP, but Orick told me it would break in less than an hour training in this way, so I did my best to not use it. By the update I did not use nearly this many, appr. 500-1k iirc. Even at this restore rate, there is no way you could #afk train on these mobs.

 

Additionally, if you truly are #afk, you would get to the 15 round dodge limit very quickly, and would not get any exp until you came back to the computer and fled.

 

Just my opinion as someone who actually played this way.

 

Tank_Rabbit

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There's a difference between fighting something and another happens along and attacks you too, and walking around collecting all the spawns of something on one map. I'm not against multi per se nor did I say it was illegal, just not liking this particular form of intentionally collecting of them all.

 

And again, this whole issue is not JUST about Orick. As I stated, others have done it too. He's just the well-known example here.

 

And yes people do train afk :/ (not sure why you are handpicking one example out of many out there to state no one does it)

 

Again, I don't have a problem with the build concept in general, I just don't care for the ways of using it I stated.

 

Edit: I can't seem to get this post right no matter how much I try, sorry for the repeated, albeit minor, changes.

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@Aisy - RE: Yeti ignore

Yeah their ignore level should be raised. In addition to the obvious RP reasons, they're not good for multi training and there's not really anywhere to multi-train a bunch of them anyway.

 

@SenZ - RE: TINF perk

Ever a good question; why does a perk like TINF even exist in the first place - it's obviously way OP.

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Find me someone who afk MULTI trains, prove me wrong.

 

If you want to punish a build for afk training, multi def chars really aren't the right ones :P

Edited by evilmangopie

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Interesting post.

First off, I'd like to comment that you aren't the only one who has or has had this build type. I see it as a problem for these reasons:

 

1. afk training (seriously I hate this, if you aren't interested enough to be present to play, you should not be getting experience)

You cant afk train a tank build, however with the updates that were ment to make it harder to train tank builds you have made it easyer for slayer accounts to train... for those who dont know a slayer account has low def and high att... slayer accounts use Toughness to reduce damage while also useing strong weps to kill the creatures fast, this build is usualy done AFK

 

2. MASSIVE amounts of experience...6-8 feros on you at once? (if anybody has a definite feros count in bethel cave, I'd like to know, it seems like there's more than 6 but I can't figure that out in that cave :P )

k, i could get on a perfict day with my build now in thel PK area 1mill xp an hour however untill i het def 130 i could only train for about 30-45 mins because my EMU was so low and thel was so big that i could not hold or move them fast enough to stay on a spawn... For those few times where i was able to gather them all and train for long amounts of time it usualy took 1-3 hours of getting 100-200k an hour to gather them so i could get 1-3 hours of 1mill an hour if i was lucky enough to not be serped in the non PK areas

 

also if you wanted to know...

thel has 4 feros and 3 fluffs most of the time you can only train 3 feros and 2 fluffs because it takes to long to gather

bethel cave has 6 feros eayer to gather but unlikely you will keep them long

 

3. hogging of all the spawns in a given area.

 

Point I need to make here: Orick has always been polite and offered me a spawn spot if I've arrived and he's got them all. That said, it's still annoying really. I dislike having to go through all that, serp him to get them, or figure out which belong to which spawn and all the time that entails. It implies that they are all "his" and he's being generous to offer me some.

 

Also of note some others have been working on this build and are not so polite and in fact are were downright rude and nasty.

 

So I agree with radu's reasoning to reduce the ignore levels but I agree with korrode that maybe the system should be changed because at this rate, the average noob will be ignored by yeti like I am (which I find absurd). Of course I say that in ignorance of knowing what that entails or what would be better. I also know how easy it is to have the best laid plans have unimagined or unintended side effects. People need to realize this when changes are made and not complain all the time about them.

how is serping them all in one spot harder then walking around the cave and trying to figure out witch one goes to witch spawn and having them all keep moving while you are trying to kill ones that you think might go to the spawn you want?

 

 

still waiting for the big man himself to say why he hates it so much...

 

also side note if everyone will take a look at the home screen of the websight you will c this that someone on radus team has i guess typeoed

 

"There are no fixed class restrictions, so you can develop your character in any way you wish. You, as a player, determine exactly how you develop your character. If you make mistakes, or decide to change or adjust your build, you can do so."

 

the main reason i and many others chose this game to waste my down time on

 

Also Aislinn thanks for adding that about me, i do try to play nice:)

 

With all due respect to everyone's opinion on this, it pissed me off when people say it is AFK exp, hogging all spawns, especially Massive exp.

 

While you may think it's "easy" exp, training chars like this is hell. Getting all stats to the point that you can start these type of builds. Getting GC to afford the amount of resources this uses. Getting enough time on your hands to calc what and when you should attack to not get any type of attack exp and etc. You get serped so easly, it is very hard to get a 3-8x spawn . . nearly impossible, I nearly garantee you that the only time Orick does this multi is at a epic late time zone when there is nearly non on/training. So this is how it should be if it really bothers you, Players you see someone training with more then 1x creature on them, serp. Devs, you see that the game was not meant to be this way? Remove multi spawns, remove multi combat maps . . Just one question, if training with more than one creature on you is "wrong", why add there is no fork perk at all? Cause all I see here is a handful of smart players using a perk the to their advantage. It's not like they are using the old TS affect, when something that was meant to be negative but using it to your advantage. They just use a 7 PP Positive perk to their advantage.

 

~SenZ

 

P.S. I don't have a Tank build, tried it once. Was too hard, can't stay over 20 minutes at a spawn was like suicide :s

Thank you SenZ, more bits that i just cant keep on track to say myself

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Just the other day, a guy I won't give his name, was afk training and farming for days. He had a similar build, had healing items and a gatherer med, and he would just stay there and trolls would attack him. He did that for days. While this is not (yet) against the rules, it is obviously an abuse of the system, and really annoying.

As for our friend Orick, he is not the most hated player by Radu. There are some others that have that honor. But I don't like when people abuse stuff. Lately his idea was of paying people to enter instances, then he would stay there by himself just to have multiple chims on him. This is an abuse of the instance system, which was not designed for this, and if more people do that at the same time (in the same type of instance) it will prevent legitimate teams from entering.

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how was this guy killing the trolls? because if it was with att then its not the same build as i am(maybe im not a tank) i only do crit damage and very rarely at that?

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He also had a tank build, although not a big discrepancy between a/d. High toughness and damage, good armor, healing items (sop, mol), low a/d.

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I don't agree about abusing the game. If the game mechanisms allow certain builds to take advantage, you hardly can't say they abuse the system. You can say they weren't designed the way they are used, but that's just nonsense. You designed a system which you will never be able to come up with every possible way you can play the game. And it's not because you can't think of certain gameplay styles, they are an abuse when somebody else discovers them.

 

Although I can see some people consider this unfair, it isn't. Everyone is free to build their character this way. And as THE game designer, you can add some new code to prevent those builds.

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I don't agree about abusing the game. If the game mechanisms allow certain builds to take advantage, you hardly can't say they abuse the system. You can say they weren't designed the way they are used, but that's just nonsense. You designed a system which you will never be able to come up with every possible way you can play the game. And it's not because you can't think of certain gameplay styles, they are an abuse when somebody else discovers them.

Entering an instance with help of enters and training there is clearly abusing the system.

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If you hate afk trainers so much why not make it so people who go afk log off after 1 min?

 

And you mentioned the instance training but you didnt know about that till after you made the change to the ignore lvls of fluffs and feros... what is your problem with me training them?

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I don't agree about abusing the game. If the game mechanisms allow certain builds to take advantage, you hardly can't say they abuse the system. You can say they weren't designed the way they are used, but that's just nonsense. You designed a system which you will never be able to come up with every possible way you can play the game. And it's not because you can't think of certain gameplay styles, they are an abuse when somebody else discovers them.

Entering an instance with help of enters and training there is clearly abusing the system.

 

Well, they weren't created for training. But if the system allows it, why should it be considered abuse?

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And you mentioned the instance training but you didnt know about that till after you made the change to the ignore lvls of fluffs and feros... what is your problem with me training them?

There are a very limited number of instance maps, so if you stay in 1 of them you are taking away the chance to other team enters.

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I don't agree about abusing the game. If the game mechanisms allow certain builds to take advantage, you hardly can't say they abuse the system. You can say they weren't designed the way they are used, but that's just nonsense. You designed a system which you will never be able to come up with every possible way you can play the game. And it's not because you can't think of certain gameplay styles, they are an abuse when somebody else discovers them.

Entering an instance with help of enters and training there is clearly abusing the system.

 

Well, they weren't created for training. But if the system allows it, why should it be considered abuse?

Because as I already stated, there are unintended, unexpected, and unimagined results of things put ingame. Just because it's there doesn't mean it was supposed to be or wanted. Some things you just can't anticipate and some things affect other things which affect other things and then something unexpected and unwanted is able to be done. To me, "game mechanics" are the intention, not necessarily an unwanted side effect.

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I don't agree about abusing the game. If the game mechanisms allow certain builds to take advantage, you hardly can't say they abuse the system. You can say they weren't designed the way they are used, but that's just nonsense. You designed a system which you will never be able to come up with every possible way you can play the game. And it's not because you can't think of certain gameplay styles, they are an abuse when somebody else discovers them.

Entering an instance with help of enters and training there is clearly abusing the system.

Then make it so you dont get xp in an instance same with invasions... make it so you dont get xp from them

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Well, if someone's grabbing all the spawns, I'd say there's no one else training in that area (you can't run after a monster if you're engaged in a fight, so the monster passed close enough to engage you). So starting multi-train shouldn't cause a problem. Unless we start reasoning like: "He's alone now, but someone else might come by in 5, 10, 60 min, so we can't allow multi training". I agree that later, when a second trainer comes by, releasing a monster should be automatic, no need for asking (but that's a nice theory...)

 

Personally, I don't see a problem with multi-training when the trainer is alone in an area, or polite about it. Most pay for the possibility one way or another, and if not, more power to them.

 

@Aislinn: if Orick was able to offer you a spawn when you arrived, he was clearly not training AFK...

And yes, it is annoying if someone has grabbed all the spawns while he was alone, but then again, he was alone, so not hurting anyone (any players, at least).

 

But if multi-training is to be made more difficult, would it be possible to use a modifier to the ignore calculation? One way could be with a multiplier for every opponent engaged: say a factor of 1.2, so if ignore is def-based, def 50 will count as 60 for ignoring, while you're fighting any monster, 72 while fighting 2 monsters etc. And the multiplier would take effect whenever you are fighting (so that rabbit that came by makes the yeti you're after ignore you). That way, ignore levels would stay the same, but multi training would be a lot more difficult, especially AFK multi (which seems to be the most objected to). Although this would not make multi completely impossible, depending on how it would be implemented, it would make it a lot riskier.

If I can engage one creature,and poison the next one walking bye me for a cheap ass multi then damnit I'm gonna' do it. So should you. A/D dont wait for no one.

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