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bots with no gc

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I do agree that bots should not advertise for expensive items that they cannot pay for. However I feel that this is an owner choice on what they do. While I think an option in the bot code is fine, I do not agree with forcing it. I do NOT want my bot advertising how much gc it has and any technique to limit what they buy based on how much gc they have does exactly that.

 

Agreed! If someone takes a trip to a bot only to find its got no gc, its more an inconvenience than a disaster. Even if a bot disclosed its gc, (particular if the price offered is good), there's no guarantee it wouldn't have run out of money in the time it takes the seller to arrive, or changed its pricing.

 

In any case, a bot may be set up with a strategy of 'back to back' selling of one items in order to raise gc to buy another, in which case the availability of either gc or items may periodically be affected. Doesn't mean that the bot owner isn't interested in buying/selling, just that some customers perhaps need to be a little more patient and commercially realistic.

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Well of course. Bot owners dont like it. your too lazy to code an extra to prevent buying what you cant and you are too lazy to code that extra line with gc. I dont see any other explanation, as it is uber easy to check how much gc you have, just put some items the bot buys in the trade window. "i dont want anyone to know how much money my bot has" is not an excuse. Anyone who wants to know - knows already!

 

Anyway high prices stay, because of those out-of money bots.

Edited by Helklo

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Well lets start, I hope that is allowed, if not please delete the post so I know its not allowed ...

 

Today [PM from Millenium: I am buying up to 1 Mage Robe Pants for 40000 gc each.]

 

[pm from millenium: !!!!! i don't have enough coins to cover my side of the trade. !!!!!]

 

... => Most expensive item wanted ... [PM from Millenium: [Animal Removal Stone~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~500000.00gc|~~~~~~~1]

 

Happens quite often to myself :( Recently

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Well of course. Bot owners dont like it. your too lazy to code an extra to prevent buying what you cant and you are too lazy to code that extra line with gc. I dont see any other explanation, as it is uber easy to check how much gc you have, just put some items the bot buys in the trade window. "i dont want anyone to know how much money my bot has" is not an excuse. Anyone who wants to know - knows already!

 

Anyway high prices stay, because of those out-of money bots.

Let's not forget that the vast majority of bot owners couldn't code their way out of a paper bag and probably half of them don't understand even exactly how the bot they are using work.

 

Not wanting the GC on your bot to be displayed is a valid concern imo as well.

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Anyway high prices stay, because of those out-of money bots.

 

I don't see any evidence or rationale for saying that out of money bots keep prices high. If a bot can't actually buy at its advertised price, then that price becomes irrelevant.

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Anyway high prices stay, because of those out-of money bots.

 

I don't see any evidence or rationale for saying that out of money bots keep prices high. If a bot can't actually buy at its advertised price, then that price becomes irrelevant.

Because unaware people use the bots advertised inflated buy price to justify a higher sell price, even when that bot can't pay.

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Anyway high prices stay, because of those out-of money bots.

 

I don't see any evidence or rationale for saying that out of money bots keep prices high. If a bot can't actually buy at its advertised price, then that price becomes irrelevant.

Because unaware people use the bots advertised inflated buy price to justify a higher sell price, even when that bot can't pay.

 

+1 And thats fact

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I have 2 bots online and try my best to keep gold coin on them, i understand ppl's fustration when they go to a bot without gc, it has happened to me lots too. tbh if the deal sounds to good to be true, it probably is, its part of the game, not nice i agree. If you dont like it sell on the market channel instead of going to the bots that YOU think YOUR going to make a few gc's on.

 

Some bot owners do set rediculous prices and i agree with some of the posts, they dont play that often anymore and let the bots run for themselves, so be it.

 

Bottem line is and ill say again, if the deal sounds to good to be true, it probably is.

 

Everyone has a greed factor in them wether its the bot owner or the the guilty buyers thinking their going to make a few gc's on the bot owners behalf.

 

Davy

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I don*t get the point why bot owners don*t what to have their gc visible to others.

 

Anyway if you pretend to buy item y for lets say x gc, you must have at least x gc on that bot. So that*s not an argument to myself really.

 

Some bots are only sell station like the bot emerald.

 

Okay lets make another thing: Give a warning when the inv command is used when the gc is below the most expensivest item * most expensivest item quantiy value.

 

Warning Message (gc) = bots (gc) smaller as (gc) most expensivest item * most expensivest item quantity

Shouldnt be that hard to code. And will satisfiy most customers.

 

Example ...

 

/bot inv ...

/[bot] WARNING I am low on gold coins !!! Trade on your risk

/ lines as usual ...

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I don*t get the point why bot owners don*t what to have their gc visible to others.

 

Because of the scammers out there that if they knew that a bot had a shitload of GC on it would make a bigger effort to find out how to scam it..

 

A warning stating that the bot is low on GC (perhaps make it so that the highest buy price is the limit for the warning) can be a good idea.

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I would have emerald buy more stuff but as she is not blessed that would not be practical. I always make sure she has enough gc for the bones she is set to buy.

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I don*t get the point why bot owners don*t what to have their gc visible to others.

 

Because of the scammers out there that if they knew that a bot had a shitload of GC on it would make a bigger effort to find out how to scam it..

 

A warning stating that the bot is low on GC (perhaps make it so that the highest buy price is the limit for the warning) can be a good idea.

 

Well you miss the topic entirely.

 

Its about tradebots who offer to buy stuff for a price which is set from the tradebot owner, and these tradebots dont have enough gc to buy for the given / set price of the owner.

 

It is defintely not about some theoretical scam of gc of tradebots. So may I ask you politely to stick to the topic please?

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Because of the scammers out there that if they knew that a bot had a shitload of GC on it would make a bigger effort to find out how to scam it..

 

I dont really want to repeat myself for 3rd time, but.. It is very easy to find out how much money a certain bot has. You give him a bunch of expensive stuff that he buys and if he put the gc in trade you see the money. Then you can increase the amount of those items bit by bit to find the total amount of money that bot has.

 

Theres another a bit harder way. You check potential rich bot's sold and bought items every day. In a week you will have a pretty good idea about that bot's financial situation. And these ways are just what i figure out on spot. those scamers yo u speak about invest more time to make a more clever way to see what gc a bot has.

 

As I said. Not wanting to display you bot's GC is not an excuse! Not to mention there are other ways to solve the problem - they are mentioned a pair of posts above.

Edited by Helklo

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Having to physically go to each trade bot and give it items till you figure out how much gc it has and having to enter in one command from where ever you are in EL are 2 very different things. It could be a problem and you can't just shake it off because YOU don't think it is.

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I don*t get the point why bot owners don*t what to have their gc visible to others.

 

Because of the scammers out there that if they knew that a bot had a shitload of GC on it would make a bigger effort to find out how to scam it..

 

A warning stating that the bot is low on GC (perhaps make it so that the highest buy price is the limit for the warning) can be a good idea.

 

Well you miss the topic entirely.

 

Its about tradebots who offer to buy stuff for a price which is set from the tradebot owner, and these tradebots dont have enough gc to buy for the given / set price of the owner.

 

It is defintely not about some theoretical scam of gc of tradebots. So may I ask you politely to stick to the topic please?

At least imho, the idea of a warning when gc is low is a very good one, and seems well worth taking forward. The only issue I can see is that the value of items being traded by a bot may vary considerably, so what might be 'low' for one item, might be high for another. Hence, its not something that should be hard-coded, and would need to have a degree of user-configuration (including the option to turn it off entirely).

 

On the matter of displaying gc, you need to remember that bots are bought and paid for by their owners, hence, your ability to trade with them is a privilege, not a right. Setting up a bot costs around $20 registration; $100 blessing; plus $??? for process hosting; its therefore quite an investment on the part of an owner, and understandable that many (if not most) are sensitive about the risk of misuse.

 

With respect, it doesn't quite seem fair to have players who are not able or prepared to own a bot try and force their convenience on those that do.

 

EDIT: Punctuation

Edited by themuntdregger

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I don*t get the point why bot owners don*t what to have their gc visible to others.

 

Because of the scammers out there that if they knew that a bot had a shitload of GC on it would make a bigger effort to find out how to scam it..

 

A warning stating that the bot is low on GC (perhaps make it so that the highest buy price is the limit for the warning) can be a good idea.

 

Well you miss the topic entirely.

 

Its about tradebots who offer to buy stuff for a price which is set from the tradebot owner, and these tradebots dont have enough gc to buy for the given / set price of the owner.

 

It is defintely not about some theoretical scam of gc of tradebots. So may I ask you politely to stick to the topic please?

 

Uhm I answered Your question if you missed the quot I did from Your own post read up!

If you want things to be on topic I may suggest that you don't ask questions that has nothing to do with the topic here either so before you act like a dumbass think first...

 

And No i didn't miss the topic, most of the things has been said already but Your question I answered (even though i think it is in here already earlier in the thread not sure though) because I don't want the GC to be displayed in the maner You are talking about.

 

@Helklo: Nova has brains read her post :P

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<...>hence, your ability to trade with them is a privilege, not a right. <...>

 

With respect, it doesn't quite seem fair to have players who are not able or prepared to own a bot try and force their convenience on those that do.

 

You are wrong.

 

90% of the players sell their items to bots before even looking what botless people offer for those items (same for buying - they prefer buying from bots than regular players, as its faster and more convenient). Thus, bots just by being there reduce our buying/selling possibilities, even if our offer is better! It feels that you MUST have a bot to do some serious stuff, like manufacturing higher level items. i personally would be better off with no trade-bots at all.

 

You get the ability to trade without participating yourself and for that you have to pay.

 

All we ask (the botless people) is some rule that would force bot owners to do something that would prevent us from walking to bots with no gold. Even though I suggested, i dont particularly interested in bots showing how much gold they have, but i want to be sure that i wont have to walk 2 or 3 mins to a bot that doesnt have gold to pay for that stuff.

 

Anyway, anything that needed to be said has been said - stuff repeats and starts to go off-topic, so i will shut up now. :)

 

EDIT: p.s. Merry Christmas! :)

Edited by Helklo

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90% of the players sell their items to bots before even looking what botless people offer for those items (same for buying - they prefer buying from bots than regular players, as its faster and more convenient). Thus, bots just by being there reduce our buying/selling possibilities, even if our offer is better!

The fact that botless traders have to offer better prices than bots is simply a reflection of the additional inconvenience and risk of trading with them. Its a simple matter of market economics and applies as much irl as in el.

 

It feels that you MUST have a bot to do some serious stuff, like manufacturing higher level items. i personally would be better off with no trade-bots at all.

If there were no bots, then it would certainly be better for botless traders, but given that you admit yourself that 90% of ppl prefer to trade with bots, you're rather in a minority.

 

You get the ability to trade without participating yourself and for that you have to pay.

Indeed. Bots are difficult to code, expensive to set up, time-consuming to run, and need a degree of experience and expertise to get the very best from them. However, they're also great fun and provide a resource to the whole community.

 

However, you don't have to be a bot owner to get access to a bot. Its not uncommon for better guilds to provide its members with access to bots, once you've proved yourself and are trusted. Many bots also have the facility to offer guild/allies discounts, so maybe get your guildmaster to do some negotiation.

 

All we ask (the botless people) is some rule that would force bot owners to do something that would prevent us from walking to bots with no gold. Even though I suggested, i dont particularly interested in bots showing how much gold they have, but i want to be sure that i wont have to walk 2 or 3 mins to a bot that doesnt have gold to pay for that stuff.

Yes, its happened to me a few times as well, so I know it can be annoying. However, the very worst you're going to suffer is a few minutes of wasted time. Same thing happens when you go to do a daily and find a queue for the spawn, or arrive in cc only to find there's an invasion.

 

Inconvenience and disappointment are all part of the charm and pleasure of the game, (which is probably part of why we all love it so much lol). For you its bots with no gc, for me its having to dodge hordes of pk-weenies anytime i'm unlucky enough to get a daily in injun-country. Now i'd love a rule that stopped them from pointlessly attacking harvers for entirely no reason, or maybe some code that turned them into skirt wearing female elves for a week, but I doubt santa will be bringing those in his sack for me either.

 

Merry Xmas santa_fat_dance.gif

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I would like to point out before I say anything else that I do not own a bot. However I do go shopping or sell stuff to the bots regularly due to the convenience factor of still being able to trade when adverts on the market elicit no responses.

 

I personally don't think a bot running out of gold is a huge issue and it has happened to me a few times. If a bot consistently fails to have gold for trades, I just stop going to it. Even with all the suggestions for change you may turn up at a bot and it has just run out of gold or something you wanted to buy.

 

I don't think bot owners should be forced to implement new code for increased functionality, I think this should be at their discretion as should the issue of querying gold reserves. If bot owners want customers to use their bot then they have to make an effort to acquire and keep them. Making prices fair and ensuring their bot has a sufficient float to actually trade are a major part of this. Adding new functions may also help acquire & retain customers as well as increasing bot revenues, but I think it should be up to the individuals to decide.

 

As to the issue of prices on the market, it's not just a few bots that have caused the rising prices. Players can ask whatever they want for there ing's or items, if the price is ridiculous no one is being forced to buy the stuff. If a bot will buy limited amounts for a better price then they can sell it to the bot, if the bot can't pay they may have to be more realistic or keep it.

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this thread is too long, so excuse me if I'm not gonna read this all atm.

 

all i wanted to comment is that this isn't the first time i wanted to sell something to a bot.

but walk to him each time to try out if he has enough gc is really a bummer. i don't want to do that, will take me all the time i spent in game, why would i do that?

 

it sound logical to me that a bot could send u the info, so u can be sure he has enough gc, for you to approach him and sell your "goods" :)

will save a lot of time, instead of running the maps like a headless chicken.

 

so, simple commend will fix this matter ;)

 

thy :) (zombie_girl in game)

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after reading some posts here i understand now why ppl wouldn't like to share how much gc their bot has.

 

since this is also unfair for bot owners for many reasons, i have (maybe) a better idea: commend that doesn't show how much gc a bot has BUT a commend that shows when/how long from the last time his owner supplied him more gc.

that way, sellers/buyers wont know the amount but could be almost sure the bot has gc to trade with him.

 

zombie_girl

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commend that doesn't show how much gc a bot has BUT a commend that shows when/how long from the last time his owner supplied him more gc.

 

Unfortunantly such a command wouldn't be much help im afraid.

Some bots are self going they buy and sell alot of items and gets a profit wich stacks and helps keeping the process going so the owner doesn't have to make any GC trades with the bot.

Then there are bots that are stuffed with GC because they are supose to buy very expencive items and does that in a very short time, perhaps when the bot owner is offline, and after that is short of GC all of a sudden.

Some items are Very hard to buy on bots they are rare sales and nothing you think will get with in a day or two but weeks/months so it is hard to calculate when it will happen and if the timing is wrong it can be when the bot is low on GC and can't buy other expencive items till the owner comes and restocks it.

 

There aint a good way to fix this problem without showing how much GC the bot has on it so the only way to solve this is for the lazy or inactive botowners to start taking care of their bots..

Edited by Entris

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Does trustbot work for bots? Then that could be a solution: mark the bot that has no gc/no slots/no emu repeatedly as untrustworthy, and after a while (to get enough votes) you can ask trustbot about the trade bot you want to deal with. Abuse is possible of course, but you can check who voted.

 

Advantage is that the whole mechanism is in place, and works for all bots (if it works for bots at all). And no need for the bots to advertise their gc content.

 

(Note: @ zombie: bots don't have to be stocked with gc by their owners; some can be used as outlets for the production of their owners => the gc comes from the customers, the owners skims off the profits...)

Edited by revi

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Does trustbot work for bots? Then that could be a solution: mark the bot that has no gc/no slots/no emu repeatedly as untrustworthy, and after a while (to get enough votes) you can ask trustbot about the trade bot you want to deal with. Abuse is possible of course, but you can check who voted.

 

Advantage is that the whole mechanism is in place, and works for all bots (if it works for bots at all). And no need for the bots to advertise their gc content.

 

(Note: @ zombie: bots don't have to be stocked with gc by their owners; some can be used as outlets for the production of their owners => the gc comes from the customers, the owners skims off the profits...)

 

Problem with your idea is that bots change hands. However, if you mark the bot as 'untrustworthy' due to a previous owner, then you obviously need a means to update that if the bot then changes hands. As far as i'm aware, trustbot doesn't have that functionality.

 

If a bot runs out of gc, no one loses anything bar a few mins travelling. I'm guessing that after one wasted trip, most players would be disinclined to repeat the error, and simply make a mental note to ignore the bot in future. Beyond that, I don't think anyone has yet made sufficient case to support that the issue affects game-play in a way that justifies legislating against it.

 

That said, if someone were to take the time coding a bot search engine that provided

 

a) The capacity for bot owners to upload "enhanced" information regarding trading reliability

B) Presentation of factors that could indicate "trading reliability"

c) filtering of item prices outside the normal range, eg fire essence on sale for 10kgc each

d) Ability for players to receive an in-game alert if a bot started advertising a certain item at a particular price

e) Facility to log feedback against individual bots so as players can post problem issues and owners can indicate if these have been resolved.

f) Tools for market analysis

 

How much would ppl be prepared to pay, either gc or irl currency, to subscribe to such a service ???

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