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Revise Multi Rule?

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imho allow multi, prices of harvestables will drop. shop items prices will probably raise, anyway i dont think its a bad move, there are capped pp players anyway

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My PC runs 1 client. It can not run 2, or 3, If this was allowed I would be terribly pissed off

 

 

Same here, and that will annoy many many players in EL in same situation. Having said that i will like to add another reason to why my answer will be always NO . I played for the last 5-7months another game where multi was allowed and macroing was "in flower" ,many players having the best of best ingame and well lets say we got bored quite fast. What did we do? Started another alt and another alt...where this went? NOWHERE and wont give much details but in the end every player gets the same stuff and the same way as before, and if some EL players refuse to believe it please with all respect go and play WOW or whatever else games that allow multi and have your try there.

I like how EL is based and thats why after a gap time here i am again to enjoy the play.I do not want multi to be allowed and i do not wish to make me an alt. I like how i build my main and will stay with this one. Just cos some dont know and understand how to play EL doesnt mean we need to have rule #5 out , that rule keeps the game clean from many wrong doing and i personally like it. When i started to play EL was on a different IP from my husband, now same IP first thing i did long time ago is to ask radu/mods if we are allowed to play and in what conditions. We were told in a very nice way ( not sure why some say the mods are rude when it comes to rule #5 being explained ) what we can do/not do and here we are still after many years and play the game.

 

Ty but no multi allowed in this game as far as i am concern . ;)

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I wonder if there will ever be an automated means to determine individuality like the server requesting suspected alts of typing stuff upon request at the same time so that it would actually require two people to pass the test.

 

Not that it would actually solve the problem of shared characters, but I am not sure how anyone would determine if a character is actually shared anyways. It is not like the game client can recognize the players unless it has something like typing timing pattern recognition which I am not sure if anyone actually uses.

 

It would be spooky if EL used voice recognition or facial recognition or used a finger print scanner. I am sure all of these things would probably remove any doubt and a clever person could probably fool each one of these alternatives. Oddly enough, the typing timing test might be the easiest to set up and use.

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I wish I was ambidexterous. With two, agile and strong hands I would be able to multiplay on my box and laptop!

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I've quickly read over this thread as I was one of the biggest multitraders myself once so let me put my few words here.

 

First off, I think multitrading should stay illegal (coming from a multitrader, funny eh) as it simply ruins the gameplay for people with for example a 1600 MHZ computer who can only run EL in one instance. However, There is a way to give the mods a lot less headache but I'm pretty sure Radu has a shitload of stuff to do or thought about this already. You could 'simply' implement an automated script which checks for the same IP addresses while doing trades. Let me state an example so you can understand my shit german-english a bit better.

 

Player A drops a bag, IP gets logged into a file, Player B (his alt) takes the bag, IP gets logged into a file - Both people get autobanned for Illegal multi.

 

or, the trade version now:

 

Player A opens the trade window with someone else, Player B accepts the trade (his alt). Due to both IP's being the same, the system could either autoban them or actually block the trade with a simple client message like 'You can't perform this trade as you're playing on the same IP.'

 

 

Obviously i've also thought about the families which are playing on the same IP network. Therefor you could create a seperate whitelist file though which would save all whitelisted characters and make them able to trade with each other (if they're known RL families).

 

 

This might be a possible way to cause LESS headache for mods. But not sure as i didn't play very long and only radu knows his own game code.

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First off, I think multitrading should stay illegal (coming from a multitrader, funny eh) as it simply ruins the gameplay for people with for example a 1600 MHZ computer who can only run EL in one instance.

I would go much further, it also ruins the gameplay for those who CAN multiplay and feel compelled to do so because they feel the need to compete with the pr0 powerlevelers and grinders and "have to" multiplay to live up to the new standards.

 

You could 'simply' implement an automated script which checks for the same IP addresses while doing trades.

If the issue was just about that, it would have been implemented long ago.

I can easily think of a few ways to circumvent the IP check, and i believe, players with pro computer skills can think of even more ways.

 

Player A drops a bag, IP gets logged into a file, Player B (his alt) takes the bag, IP gets logged into a file - Both people get autobanned for Illegal multi.

I don't know what they are doing but they MIGHT already be tagging such actions as "doubtful".

What exactly they do, i believe, better be left private for certain reasons.

 

Player A opens the trade window with someone else, Player B accepts the trade (his alt). Due to both IP's being the same, the system could either autoban them or actually block the trade with a simple client message like 'You can't perform this trade as you're playing on the same IP.'

This MIGHT be helpful for warning purposes, to people who simply don't know of rule #5- but

nothing much would be attained for preventing dedicated offenders, besides there are a lot more ways to have one char help out the other.

 

Examples, of ILLEGAL multiplay :

Alt1 kills high level mobs, Alt2 takes the drops.

Alt1 posts a price check on market, Alt2 + Alt3 give a price in favour of Alt4 who wants to trade.

 

I can easily imagine more situations, and not all of them can be tracked by IP address.

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Ever wonder if it would be easier to allow multiplay, but occasionally have a ghost show up and rob the alts/friends/family members when it is detected? Right now, friends and family get tossed into the same pool until they are whitelisted. White listing could prevent the ghost from showing up to rob ya.

 

I know it may seem like an absurd solution to some, but it may be easier than all the policing the mods have to do.

 

Note: I say alts/friends/family because the mods don't really have a way to tell who is behind the keyboard at any particular time...unless you show them a webcam or voice chat with them or something

Edited by nathanstenzel

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nathan, i would like a funny way to deal with this, however....

...once more you are asking for a mind-reading computer !! .. basically you are asking for the server to be as intelligent as the mods are? :o

So, since computers can't read minds, from player's point of view, the ghost would act unpredictable- maybe a bit too unpredictable.

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stop saying mind reading computer. everything is run by a program and the right program can run anything. the server can be as intelligent as a programmer makes it. seriously. :blink:

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the server can be as intelligent as a programmer makes it.

 

Ok, please write a script for me that detects a/s/l of a user, if he (or she) is good looking, their yearly income, attitude and a few more additional features. Of course without access to external big brother data bases, and i mean the real person sitting behind the computer, not the one registered at the internet provider.

I believe you might be in for a nobel prize if you succeed!

 

 

On the serious side, if we manage define an ordinary behaviour, we might be in for some fuzzy fun

 

Entirely detached from multiplay, I like the ghost idea, it could pop up out of nowhere under certain circumstances, perhaps at midnight, shriek and haunt us a bit.. like lenny does.. could cast "life drain", or some other ghastly spells.

 

But stealing from storage, in general, is a very bad idea- the storage should just stay as it is, reliable and continuous.

Edited by aredhel

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the server can be as intelligent as a programmer makes it.

 

Ok, please write a script for me that detects a/s/l of a user, if he (or she) is good looking, their yearly income, attitude and a few more additional features. Of course without access to external big brother data bases, and i mean the real person sitting behind the computer, not the one registered at the internet provider.

I believe you might be in for a nobel prize if you succeed!

 

 

On the serious side, if we manage define an ordinary behaviour, we might be in for some fuzzy fun

 

Entirely detached from multiplay, I like the ghost idea, it could pop up out of nowhere under certain circumstances, perhaps at midnight, shriek and haunt us a bit.. like lenny does.. could cast "life drain", or some other ghastly spells.

 

But stealing from storage, in general, is a very bad idea- the storage should just stay as it is, reliable and continuous.

Good looking and attitude they already have, as well as emotions, age, race,gender, sex

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I still think all the fear mongering is funny. Claiming the effects would be devastating and what not.

 

Really though, if outright multiplay was allowed tomorrow, in a month everyone except a stickler or two would still be playing, still training, still instancing, still mixing, still trading, still chatting, still making new friends and new enemies... the game would go on, just with less people being banned.

 

Oh and to you people claiming you can't run 2 clients; you can, just make sure the console is always dropped on at least one of them.

I once ran 2 clients on an older Celeron with 512MB RAM and Intel video and it was fine, stop with the bullshit. If your computer is so shit that you really can only run 1 client and not 2, you've probably got bigger worries in the near future anyway (i.e. upcoming OpenGL2 minimum requirement)... also, not to mention; you can always use hyperbags or even a normal bag in a remote place to move stuff from one char to another, if you really can only launch 1 client.

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Oh and to you people claiming you can't run 2 clients; you can, just make sure the console is always dropped on at least one of them.

I once ran 2 clients on an older Celeron with 512MB RAM and Intel video and it was fine, stop with the bullshit. If your computer is so shit that you really can only run 1 client and not 2, you've probably got bigger worries in the near future anyway (i.e. upcoming OpenGL2 minimum requirement)...

It could be also connection problem that is causing the clients to lag... Not everybody has high speed internet connection (i do, so np for me :D)

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that is a fair point groomsh, but, other than invasion/instance/pk/etc., I have a couple of times monitored the el client's bandwidth usage and I'd wager that I could train a/d on one char and harvest on another and even on a 56k modem still have a little bandwidth to spare.

 

data transfer wise; the el client is actually pretty damn lean.

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I think it's funny that you call trying to look as far ahead into the future as possible and trying to see all possible outcomes you can think of, fear mongering.

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Whilst I do agree that there is a degree of unfairness where separate individuals with single characters on a shared IP address are not free to trade in the same way as everyone else. I don't think allowing everyone to have multiple alts and do as they wish with them is going to be a good thing for the game in the long run.

 

The main beneficiaries would be existing players who understand the game fully & create an army of alts to perform menial tasks for their main character (assuming they have the hardware and bandwidth to do this). It would also completely change the game dynamic and render some folks main character builds redundant (still you could make them team leader for the army of alt's you can now create).

 

New players are probably going to find it very hard to get started with the market totally flooded with harvestables, base items & animal parts. I think, like most people if I joined a game where the norm was to play several characters in different windows, I'd think it bizarre and probably quit.

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New players are probably going to find it very hard to get started with the market totally flooded with harvestables, base items & animal parts. I think, like most people if I joined a game where the norm was to play several characters in different windows, I'd think it bizarre and probably quit.

 

I fully agree. I stopped playing quite a few games after a few days just for this sole reason.

Edited by Vanyel

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There would be nothing forcing anyone to have multiple characters, there won't even be anything making it immediately apparent that multiple characters are actually the one human. For people who don't feel the need to be 'highly competitive' they can just kick along on one char if they so choose.

 


New players are probably going to find it very hard to get started with the market totally flooded with harvestables, base items & animal parts.

lol, the effect on the market as a result of increased supply is one of the best selling points for allowing multiplay. The market will be extremely competitive. For most players it will be a good thing.

 

I personally wouldn't run an 'army of alts' if multiplay becomes legal (sure I will use my non-anti alt at NPC's and what not, but I won't be one of these people running 10 alts all harvesting and mixing and farming and whatever that seem to be of concern to those opposed to legal multiplay), the market-related benefits for me personally by having multiplay allowed will mostly be as a result of the actions of others, not myself.

 

Regarding new players; at worst, there are still NPC driven income methods they can use, and a competitive and well supplied market will be good for them when they're the buyer.

 

 

I think, like most people if I joined a game where the norm was to play several characters in different windows, I'd think it bizarre and probably quit.

So, you wouldn't test out the game play on just one character and then decide if you want to stay?

Gather some first hand experience and decide for yourself if you feel multiple characters is a must?

The second you hear that it's common that people run multiple clients you'd just immediately up and quit?

 

I don't think you represent "most people" at all.

I think there's games with multiplay allowed that have millions of players whereas EL struggles to retain the thousand or so it has.

I think that you may want to reconsider using any kind of "most people" argument.

 


I think it's funny that you call trying to look as far ahead into the future as possible and trying to see all possible outcomes you can think of, fear mongering.

My comment relates to the thread as a whole and not necessarily any of your posts, Nova. Later, if i can be bothered, I'll specifically quote all the examples of fear mongering in this thread. Most likely I won't be bothered though, because I'll be busy running guaranteed profitable instances (that I won't have to find an "enter" for), partaking in competitive & low cost PK, and trading items between my chars.

 


As per usual I see EL players that can only view things from their narrow, and probably naive, internal perspective. Arguments against legalising multiplay are weak and can have holes punched in them easily, where as the argument for multiplay has a big Bans forum section and many highly popular MMORPG's proving that allowing multiplay is a policy that at worst doesn't hinder the success of the game and at best increases the success.

 

@Anyone who (MMORPG wise) has only ever played EL:

I've been playing EL for 5 years now and although I like to think I've always been good at looking at the bigger picture, I can say with confidence that one of the best ways to gain more/better perspective and insight is by playing some other MMORPG's. Go play some other MMO's. Play blatantly successful and popular ones. Get ready to have your preconceived concepts smashed.

 

The bad part about trying other games is that you'll see how in many ways EL is better than those games and the wasted potential will become more obvious, which is saddening and frustrating.

 

Don't get me wrong, the combat and/or market systems in other games don't always directly compare to EL's, but the experience is very eye-opening nonetheless, and it's often easy to see how a modified variant would fit within the EL structure.

 

Additional note: "Pure mixers", I mean people who really do not enjoy doing any form of combat in EL at all, don't bother trying other games, you won't like them from the get-go. You ofc don't represent the mentality and wants of the masses though (surely everyone can see that).

 


I fully agree. I stopped playing quite a few games after a few days just for this sole reason.

Mind letting me know the names of these games? I'd like to try them. If there's truly games out there where the effect of multiplay is both prominent and negative, i'd like to investigate it. I'm of course open to changing my stance if i'm previewed to real evidence against legal multiplay.

Edited by Korrode

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I fully agree. I stopped playing quite a few games after a few days just for this sole reason.

Mind letting me know the names of these games? I'd like to try them. If there's truly games out there where the effect of multiplay is both prominent and negative, i'd like to investigate it. I'm of course open to changing my stance if i'm previewed to real evidence against legal multiplay.

 

Risking my post being deleted.

You might want to try some small-community (up to 500 players online) private serwers (and I consider EL a small community serwer) of Lineage 2, Perfect World (here it's a problem even in official serwers), Aion, Conquer Online (at least back - 3-4 years ago when I last played it). The problem was especially disturbing in Lineage 2 (1-man, 2-3 toon parties consisted of a melee, a healer and a spoiler - which could be compared to a person having a harvesting, a mixing and a fighting alt in here).

 

The only "legal" multiplay that seemed to work - more less - was in WoW (official), YET, even there you weren't allowed to have more than one toon online. The problem there is lesser, though, due to game-end items available only in raids (remember: only 1 toon online). Still, a single person could've had 1 main toon and several harvesting/mixing toons to support it - which had quite a big impact on the game. With my hardcore no-alt play style I was in a disadvantage from the very beginning - all people around me had better gear, free items, etc.

 

I tried some other games, too. Runes of Magic, Chaotic something, Dofus and the like. Though, I played way too short to see if multiplaying was even allowed there (the game-play wasn't appealing).

 

 

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The only "legal" multiplay that seemed to work - more less - was in WoW (official), YET, even there you weren't allowed to have more than one toon online. The problem there is lesser, though, due to game-end items available only in raids (remember: only 1 toon online). Still, a single person could've had 1 main toon and several harvesting/mixing toons to support it - which had quite a big impact on the game. With my hardcore no-alt play style I was in a disadvantage from the very beginning - all people around me had better gear, free items, etc.
(Emphasis mine)

 

This is incorrect.

People can and do have multiple Battle.net accounts and have multiple characters logged in at once.

You'll see that neither the WoW or Battle.net TOUs restrict doing this:

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/wow_tou.html

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/about/termsofuse.html

 

You can also see that the wording at some points even acknowledges that people could have multiple accounts.

Section 14 in the b.net TOU is an example. i.e. "ALL ACCOUNTS REGISTERED TO YOU".

 

EDIT: Personally, although I don't have multiple Battle.net accounts, i don't feel "disadvantaged" when I play.

 

All that said, some system like WoW's where you have an "account" with multiple "toons" on it of which you can only have one of logged in at a time (and you can just mail stuff between them) is worth taking a closer look at for EL.

 

Risking my post being deleted.

You might want to try some small-community (up to 500 players online) private serwers (and I consider EL a small community serwer) of Lineage 2, Perfect World (here it's a problem even in official serwers), Aion, Conquer Online (at least back - 3-4 years ago when I last played it). The problem was especially disturbing in Lineage 2 (1-man, 2-3 toon parties consisted of a melee, a healer and a spoiler - which could be compared to a person having a harvesting, a mixing and a fighting alt in here).

I'm reluctant to use private servers as a basis for judging a game's balance as there's no telling what other changes have been made that impact it. Also, the point isn't to purposely look at low population private servers, the point is to look at popular, successful games.

In regards to the PW main servers (which I have played on briefly btw, and I didn't note any ill-effects of multiplay, though I admit i wasn't there long): What are some of the key problems multiplay is causing?

I'll dig up my PW account some time this week and have a closer look.

Edited by Korrode

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Wasn't implying that you were directly speaking to me. While you can poke holes in a lot of the reasons to disallow multiplay, you can punch just as many holes in reasons to allow it. While tons of things that work in other games could work in el and make it a better game there are tons that wouldn't. 100% agree that much of EL could be better or different and the fact that it won't be is super frustrating. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't step back and look at everything that was, is and could be from a major change like allowing multiplay, even if it is presented in a crappy 'omg it will ruin the game' kind of way. Big parts of EL really really seem to be set up with the intention of one character....being one character and not an army. There are pluses and minuses and while some are only looking at the negative some are only looking at the positive too.

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Big parts of EL really really seem to be set up with the intention of one character....being one character and not an army. There are pluses and minuses and while some are only looking at the negative some are only looking at the positive too.

Sure, stuff like Anti perk come to mind, stuff that was obviously implemented under the pretense of no multiplay.

Regarding Anti perk specifically, allowing multiplay will have the effect of removing the perk from the game, but I don't believe this to be a negative outcome.

 

What parts of EL that are setup for one-character do you feel are positive and would be lost by allowing multiplay?

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My last post was supposed to be a bit tongue in cheek and not taken quite so literally, that said I was trying to make a serious point that I really don't think the proposed change is likely to encourage or retain new players in this game. While I take the point that not everyone will want to have an army of alt's, there will still be a significant number of players who will and their style of play is likely to draw others in to copying them thus permanently changing the dynamic of EL.

 

Every game I've ever played has been different they all have their own universe/multiverse, rules, design, dynamic, style and often quite different players. I don't believe there's any weight in arguments saying for example that WOW should be more like ROM or EL should be more like WOW, ultimately this leads to homogenisation of game content/design with every game becoming as lacklustre as every other. I also don't think you can draw direct comparisons between different games, what works in one may not work as well in another (unless of course you redesign them to be the same).

 

A lot of the arguments put forward here have little to do with improving fairness for players unlucky enough to share an IP address with another player or preventing bans, and have more to do with a desire to acquire resources quickly or at a better market rate. Personally I see a fluctuating supply & demand and varying market prices as a positive thing in the game (though I know some people hate this aspect of the game). It adds a socioeconomic element to the game that provides depth & a challenge which in my opinion improves long term playability of the game.

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Mainly the PP system like I mentioned before. If you don't need to decide what you want to be able to do, then what's the point? That's where the army comes in. You don't need to decide if you want your main to be a potter, crafter, harver, ect. You can just have alts for the things you want for your main. Part of a game that is fun and challenging is the need to make decisions like that. The need to weigh one over the other with consideration as to what the outcome will be. Not just the anti perk would have to be rethought, the HOS perk as well. Maybe even pretty much all the neg perks if you think about it really.

 

I'm really not arguing for or against multi play in EL, I'm arguing for more consideration of the results if it were allowed i guess.

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You call it fear mongering, drama queen speak or just humbug… my opinion is that your verdicts are a possible side effect of tunnel vision. I would call most thoughts as posted here in this thread, and the threads and polls before this one on the same subject, as a balanced pondering and valid points on both scales, reasonable probability risk calculations, looking over both edges, and beyond. Ignoring all that and just sticking your head deep in the sand and waiting when the first probe will arrive is not the way most people think and make decisions.

 

Please do not assume that I, or/and others who decided to raise their voices here, have not played/are playing any other similar games, more then thy might think, one of the reasons why some do stick around here in EL and want to see it grow instead of being degraded. So far I have not seen any valid point that convinced me that multi will be a beneficial suggestion to the enjoyment and growth of EL.

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