Pandemic / KO'd guild

[themuntdregger]

Firstly, thanks to radu and Aislinn for intervening on chan 6 yesterday on behalf of the (real) mcb, and for everyone who supported their decision to return the stolen char to its rightful owner. We didn't expect you to get involved as the matter was neither your fault or your problem, however we're extremely grateful that you did.

 

For those who weren't on-line, mcb's char was stolen a week or so back by someone masquerading as a moderator on the 'test server'. The player (known variously by the char names Pandemic, Invoked and Flux, used the test server to hijack the char name of someone ('Violater') from the 'main server', using this as cover to launch a password phishing exploit against other players.

 

Having gained the password to the mcb char, the player then proceeded to use its rank 19 status to delete members from the guild, seemingly for no better reason than to cause maximum possible irritation to as many people as possible. Then, having been caught and stopped, proceeded to harass the char's real owner and demand money etc. Whilst everyone at TKN is grateful simply to have recovered mcb's char, regretfully it seems that his sto (including a $90 sword that the guild bought him for his birthday) will have been lost.

 

Under the circumstances, its ironic that the scammer turns out to be someone that many in TKN trusted and previously gone out of their way to support and help. In many respects, its the last person we would have expected, and its therefore equally concerning to have heard others in Pandemic's guild admit, not just of being aware of his recent 'activities', but that he had previously managed to acquire and misuse passwords for a TKN bot !!!!

 

Whilst other guilds can necessarily take their own view on whether 'brown tagging' and bot banning Pandemic/KO'd guild is reasonable, necessary or desirable under the circumstances, I think most reasonable players will understand why TKN now feels bound to do so for its own protection. In addition, why its appropriate that the wider EL community should be forarmed and forwarned in any future dealings they may have with Pandemic/KO'd Guild.

[evilmangopie]

FYI munt, flux gave the password to shultz who removed guildies etc.

 

And pandemic and flux are locked

[Lorck]

Dispute forum is a source of information about scammers, bjers and the like, for people to be aware of them. Now both guys got locked for life, and since they can't scam anymore (at least with those chars), there is a topic about it? Lame way to waste your (and our) time.

[Learner]

Dispute forum is a source of information about scammers, bjers and the like, for people to be aware of them. Now both guys got locked for life, and since they can't scam anymore (at least with those chars), there is a topic about it? Lame way to waste your (and our) time.

Because they might try to find other ways in to do worse things.

[Dilly]

FYI munt, flux gave the password to shultz who removed guildies etc.

 

And pandemic and flux are locked

 

so when is anything gonna be done about the bolded part? Sure, EL isn´t responsible for out of game 'deals' about characters, and players have their own responsibilities but this isn´t the first time this person is involved in practices like this.

 

How many more accounts (and players, not even necessarily linked to the chars in question) are going to be lost before the real cause gets dealt with?

[themuntdregger]

FYI munt, flux gave the password to shultz who removed guildies etc.

 

And pandemic and flux are locked

 

Thx for that info bb. Seems that more revelations in this saga are come to light all the time.

 

Shultz's involvement doesn't really surprise me. On the assumption that he wasn't dumb enough to buy the password (although i may be wrong), I'm assuming that Pandemic simply gave it to him.

 

If that was simply a way of getting someone dumb and greedy enough to do his dirty work, then i'm still left wondering what the point was ?

[Devnul]

FYI munt, flux gave the password to shultz who removed guildies etc.

 

And pandemic and flux are locked

 

so when is anything gonna be done about the bolded part? Sure, EL isn´t responsible for out of game 'deals' about characters, and players have their own responsibilities but this isn´t the first time this person is involved in practices like this.

 

How many more accounts (and players, not even necessarily linked to the chars in question) are going to be lost before the real cause gets dealt with?

 

+1 Dilly for question and the anwser is: never ...

[Wizzy]

FYI munt, flux gave the password to shultz who removed guildies etc.

 

And pandemic and flux are locked

 

so when is anything gonna be done about the bolded part? Sure, EL isn´t responsible for out of game 'deals' about characters, and players have their own responsibilities but this isn´t the first time this person is involved in practices like this.

 

How many more accounts (and players, not even necessarily linked to the chars in question) are going to be lost before the real cause gets dealt with?

 

+1 Dilly for question and the anwser is: never ...

 

I guess Eternal Lands will do something about the same time that players figure out "not to share your password"

[themuntdregger]

FYI munt, flux gave the password to shultz who removed guildies etc.

 

And pandemic and flux are locked

 

so when is anything gonna be done about the bolded part? Sure, EL isn´t responsible for out of game 'deals' about characters, and players have their own responsibilities but this isn´t the first time this person is involved in practices like this.

 

How many more accounts (and players, not even necessarily linked to the chars in question) are going to be lost before the real cause gets dealt with?

 

+1 Dilly for question and the anwser is: never ...

 

I guess Eternal Lands will do something about the same time that players figure out "not to share your password"

 

The statement 'Eternal Lands will do something once players figure out not to share your password' seems rather strangely conceived, if only because it appears to suggest that EL will do something in circumstances where passwords are not shared.

 

However, on the assumption that you intended something just a little more prosaic, I think it fair to say that Dilly was already pretty clear in accepting that players do indeed have responsibilities. In fact, the issue she was alluding to was poor dear Shultz.

 

Under the circumstances, I share her concern that this 'paragon of perversity' seems yet to be awarded the accolade he truly deserves.

Edited August 18, 2011 by themuntdregger

[Wizzy]

FYI munt, flux gave the password to shultz who removed guildies etc.

 

And pandemic and flux are locked

 

so when is anything gonna be done about the bolded part? Sure, EL isn´t responsible for out of game 'deals' about characters, and players have their own responsibilities but this isn´t the first time this person is involved in practices like this.

 

How many more accounts (and players, not even necessarily linked to the chars in question) are going to be lost before the real cause gets dealt with?

 

+1 Dilly for question and the anwser is: never ...

 

I guess Eternal Lands will do something about the same time that players figure out "not to share your password"

 

The statement 'Eternal Lands will do something once players figure out not to share your password' seems rather strangely conceived, if only because it appears to suggest that EL will do something in circumstances where passwords are not shared.

 

However, on the assumption that you intended something just a little more prosaic, I think it fair to say that Dilly was already pretty clear in accepting that players do indeed have responsibilities. In fact, the issue she was alluding to was poor dear Shultz.

 

Under the circumstances, I share her concern that this 'paragon of perversity' seems yet to be awarded the accolade he truly deserves.

 

You need a name change to Thesaurus. Sort of sounds like it would fit in with the theme of EL too. Sorry that my statement was strangely conceived, But at least I made a statement to fact. /paraphrase "The perfect example of being perverse"/paraphrase. No one is praising the aformentioned shultz, or any other player for that matter. But the gentle warning I give in my statement was directed more to over-trusting noobs with Thesaurus's as a warning of EL policy. Simple fact, do not share your pass word, do not lose toon. End of story!

 

 

:disclaimer: This post was written by dyslexic Wizzy without a Oxford/Webster/Thesaurus!::

[Jeditotalwar]

All infomation is welcome, thanks for this warning..

[Maxine]

Simple fact, do not share your pass word, do not lose toon.

This includes giving your password to 'Moderators', they will never ask for such information.

[Ikaris]

Please note this post is not discussing the Moderation of EL but the perceptions that some unenlightened players may have of moderation.

 

The advice to NOT give out your password should be obvious, BUT the perception that the Moderators will Ban anyone who does not kowtow immediately to their demands, may have contributed to the aforementioned situation where a turd floated up from the outhouse and impersonated a Moderator and apparently "convinced" or "threatened" players to give up their passwords and then ran roughshod allover the place.

 

Many older players would tell a Moderator to go perform a ritual greatly resembling a cat mining dung from it's own nether regions before handing over a password, and know that a REAL Moderator can lock or ban a player but will be held accountable for their actions if the matter is escalated to the powers that be.

 

Younger players however, live in the idiot world of grade school or high school where petty dictators (teachers and admins) can get away with any unfair or heavy handed treatment, thus the threats will work on the young and foolish.

 

Other than forcing all new players to type the rules forward, backwards, and having them translate the rules into Polish, Russian and Arabic I am not sure what needs to be done to prevent the young and silly from falling for password exploit behaviors and other scammy scummy sewer scrapings. The new pop-up dialogue box that was mentioned as coming soon might work. Not sure if it is implemented yet.

 

LL&H,

 

Ikaris

[Learner]

Please note this post is not discussing the Moderation of EL but the perceptions that some unenlightened players may have of moderation.

 

The advice to NOT give out your password should be obvious, BUT the perception that the Moderators will Ban anyone who does not kowtow immediately to their demands, may have contributed to the aforementioned situation where a turd floated up from the outhouse and impersonated a Moderator and apparently "convinced" or "threatened" players to give up their passwords and then ran roughshod allover the place.

 

Many older players would tell a Moderator to go perform a ritual greatly resembling a cat mining dung from it's own nether regions before handing over a password, and know that a REAL Moderator can lock or ban a player but will be held accountable for their actions if the matter is escalated to the powers that be.

 

Younger players however, live in the idiot world of grade school or high school where petty dictators (teachers and admins) can get away with any unfair or heavy handed treatment, thus the threats will work on the young and foolish.

 

Other than forcing all new players to type the rules forward, backwards, and having them translate the rules into Polish, Russian and Arabic I am not sure what needs to be done to prevent the young and silly from falling for password exploit behaviors and other scammy scummy sewer scrapings. The new pop-up dialogue box that was mentioned as coming soon might work. Not sure if it is implemented yet.

 

LL&H,

 

Ikaris

Have Radu sell them USB dongles that let them have access, so that way they at least have something physical they have to use and cant just tell people how to get access.

[Ikaris]

@ Learner ... I wonder how many others here actually saw your avatar on a big screen? (Was back to back with SW-TESB at a drive-in near my family's campsite)

 

Way back in the day .. lol.

Edited August 19, 2011 by Ikaris

[Vanyel]

Other than forcing all new players to type the rules forward, backwards, and having them translate the rules into Polish, Russian and Arabic I am not sure what needs to be done to prevent the young and silly from falling for password exploit behaviors and other scammy scummy sewer scrapings. The new pop-up dialogue box that was mentioned as coming soon might work. Not sure if it is implemented yet.

 

LL&H,

 

Ikaris

 

Unless you meant all new players translating the rules for themselves, you probably have missed: http://www.eternal-l...hp?showforum=31 .

Edited August 19, 2011 by Vanyel

[themuntdregger]

You need a name change to Thesaurus.

Under the circumstances, 'TheMuntsaurus' would seem more apt, given that it brings to mind a large carnivorous reptile given to picking off the weak and injured from the large herds of propositional fallacies and faulty generalisations that appear to roam these plains unchallenged.

 

Sorry that my statement was strangely conceived, But at least I made a statement to fact.

Alas no. What you've made is the mistake of confusing 'argument' with 'fact', ie your belief that Shultz's activities arise exclusively from players recklessly sharing passwords is merely a point of view which is open to dispute.

 

No one is praising the aformentioned shultz.

God forbid that anyone would, but Dilly's concern didn't relate to a perception that anyone is actively encouraging him, rather that the failure to actively sanction him amounts to pretty much the same thing.

 

But the gentle warning I give in my statement was directed more to over-trusting noobs with Thesaurus's as a warning of EL policy.

Explain please Wizzy, as its just not clear.

 

Simple fact, do not share your pass word, do not lose toon. End of story!

If only Shultz's impressive repertoire of tricks simply began and ended with phishing passwords from "over-trusting noobs". Maybe then, just 'trotting out' the password sharing mantra would surely solve all our problems. However, just because we tell children not to accept sweets from strangers, doesn't mean that a simple dose of home spun wisdom is all thats needed to protect them from vile old reprobates with sweaty hands and unsavory intentions.

 

Under the circumstances, it would seem unwise to doubt the same thing in EL.

 

:disclaimer: This post was written by dyslexic Wizzy without a Oxford/Webster/Thesaurus!::

:disclaimer: This post was written by an entirely unsympathetic themuntdregger who's not quite as dumb as to underestimate your ability to google or give as good as you get Edited August 20, 2011 by themuntdregger

[Wizzy]

Too many players share passwords. Some are lucky to never have their account taken over, others are not so lucky. The point is, "Do not share your password with anyone", once you do you give up your rights to that character.

[themuntdregger]

Have Radu sell them USB dongles that let them have access, so that way they at least have something physical they have to use and cant just tell people how to get access.

 

Thats a v good idea Learner. Not sure what the cost of producing dongles might be for radu but, imho, Eternal Lands is far and away a good enough game to warrant it, and I would have no hesitation in buying one (possibly more).

 

Selling dongles need not affect EL's 'free' status. Players could still be set up chars in the traditional manner, and I guess thats how most would start. However, as a char develops, so the inclination of players to want to protect that investment is likely to increase, particularly in the case of char bots which may have costs hundreds of dollars.

 

I'd assume, if the dongle is designed such as it can be specific to a users pc, then it provides a means through which Eternal Lands can not only ensure the security of chars for dongle holders, but a source of potential revenue in relation to any transfer of chars between players.

 

EDIT: Security dongles ain't exactly cheap, and seem somewhat an overkill given that they're intended to provide full-blooded copyright protection over software. However, an alternative may be simply to use an ordinary high-quality usb key, most of which encode a unique serial number into firmware. This can then be used as the basis for authentication between the user's computer and the EL server. The following link illustrates the basic underlying coding needed to capture the serial number http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2432759/usb-drive-serial-number-under-linux-c

 

I'm guessing that amending the EL network protocol to cope with authentication is not a major issue, ie simply record on the database if a char is "registered" and, if so, implement a call back request to the client to authenticate using the key serial. Similarly, as far as the client side code is concerned, i'm guessing its simply a matter of coding for usb key detection and reading the serial if an authentication request is received from the server.

 

However, I ain't no expert, and I merely propose the above as a suggestion in the hope that one who is will say 'yup - its feasible' and maybe take it forward. If so, then you have yourselves a super cheap, fully functional, shultz defeating machine. Assuming you aren't going to hand over keys for the love of it, no doubt you'll take every opportunity to take full advantage of those of us who are fully able and willing to pay a premium to support the game they love. I'd guess you could call that 'win win' for whole community (except for poor dear Shultz ofc).

Edited August 21, 2011 by themuntdregger

[Robb]

Have Radu sell them USB dongles that let them have access, so that way they at least have something physical they have to use and cant just tell people how to get access.

 

Thats a v good idea Learner. Not sure what the cost of producing dongles might be for radu but, imho, Eternal Lands is far and away a good enough game to warrant it, and I would have no hesitation in buying one (possibly more).

 

Selling dongles need not affect EL's 'free' status. Players could still be set up chars in the traditional manner, and I guess thats how most would start. However, as a char develops, so the inclination of players to want to protect that investment is likely to increase, particularly in the case of char bots which may have costs hundreds of dollars.

 

I'd assume, if the dongle is designed such as it can be specific to a users pc, then it provides a means through which Eternal Lands can not only ensure the security of chars for dongle holders, but a source of potential revenue in relation to any transfer of chars between players.

 

Or just make an app for smart phones, I know not everyone has one, but a large proportion of people have an android or IOS device. I use the blizzard authenticater for WoW and it works perfectly

[Vanyel]

This is a Disputes forums not a "security dongle"- or "I will show how smart I am"-one. Let's stick to a topic, please.

 

There are General Chat or Suggestion forums the security dongle and related issues could be discussed.

 

Offtopic seems suitable for your regular trolling and show-off.

 

Regards,

 

~me

 

:disclaimer: This post has been written by uneducated and humourless person.

Edited August 21, 2011 by Vanyel
I made a typo. Probably typical for an uneducated, English-challenged person I am.

[Aislinn]

Please don't put words, reasons, or morals (or lack of them) in our mouths.

 

We don't condone what Shultz does and we don't condone people sharing passwords for any reason.

And yet we have no rule that forbids being a jerk and a loser and we have no rule that forbids being stupid.

 

For the umpteenth time, the line between "being scammed" and "being stupid, naive, too trusting, too young, too greedy, etc" is much to thin and constantly moving, to ever make a rule against it.

 

For the umpteenth time as well, we do not and will not police what happens outside of EL such as monetary transactions. That is not our domain nor do we want it to be.

 

This case is about somebody who broke a rule we DO have, in the process of doing that loser jerk thing we don't have a rule against, hence a slightly different outcome. Shultz wasn't part of that as far as I could see.

 

Yes this section is for warning about stuff like this. If you don't like the rules, or lack of a specific rule, take it up in suggestions.

[themuntdregger]

This is a Disputes forums not a "security dongle"- or "I will show how smart I am"-one. Let's stick to a topic, please.

 

There are General Chat or Suggestion forums the security dongle and related issues could be discussed.

 

Offtopic seems suitable for your regular trolling and show-off.

 

Regards,

 

~me

 

:disclaimer: This post has been written but uneducated and humourless person.

 

Vanyel - I take your point about discussion re dongles - apologies if you feel it strayed so far off topic. Also, be aware also that I am anxious not to push you, or any other moderator, to the point where you feel your only recourse is to make threats and insults.

 

If you really have (as you seem to suggest) wider and more serious issues with my general style of posting on these forums, by all means pm me to resolve rather than us both being seen to stray any more off-topic than we already seem to.

 

@Aislinn - I take your point entirely, also the difficulties involved in dealing with monetary issues outside of EL. Your decision with regard to the mcb incident was very fair and i've entirely no issues whatsoever it. Apologies if i've suggested otherwise, or have seemed to let my frustration with Shultz run away.

 

Regarding rules, yes it would be nice to have a separate discussion as it is a matter of genuine concern to me, as well as professional interest.

Edited August 21, 2011 by themuntdregger

[Caliphear]

Not that it matters, because i am sure you will just try to flame here as i dont give you the attention on other forums, but tbh I don't see why you have even brought the KO'd guild into this other than the fact i found it amusing that shultz once again got another persons character in high ranking. Shultz broke no rules and neither did the KO'd guild. None of us, including me, knew under what pretenses the password was obtained. I learned of it after it was done.And heard only about the password / mod thing after YOU brought it up in 6. By all means TKN brod tag me. Everyone knows your petty arguments and flaming rituals of me so i am sure this doesnt come as a surprise to anyone. And FYI flux was not in KO'd when he was banned and Shultz has never been in KO'd. So all KO'd is guilty of is me laughing at your situation.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Caliphear

[Vanyel]

I insist this thread is kept civil(ised), no matter how much tongue/fingers biting it takes. I might be uneducated, but I can easily lock (two clicks) this thread or remove (3 clicks) it if you decide not to follow my request.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Vanyel
yet another uneducated typo