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I have tried to respond to the ideas posted in this thread and came up with an idea inspired by some of the comments:

 

The idea of claiming a Neno for an exclusive team hunt, like an instance, at an NPC:

I find this idea unpractical and against the nature of the hunt. This last hunt was started nearly a week before by a guildie and me, just for fun. We took off nearly 500 points but decided to leave it for another day. In between an other guildie took off a few points, but as far as I could tell no-one else touched the Neno meanwhile all week long. Considering such scenarios, making it like an in-game team instance is not fair.

I do like the idea of using an NPC to distribute the reward, this would be very effective against bagjumping :D

We already use a channel for coordinating the hunt, but when trapped most coordination happends in local. Once Neno teles, the channel becomes important again. Now we use a secret channel, only given to people we trust, but I think it would be much more fun if we could use an existing channel, for instance ch 8, for 'running' Neno hunts in. This way anyone can check to see if there is a hunt going on, much like the events channel for contests. If the threat of bagjumping is removed, there is no longer any reason for secrecy and the Neno hunt can become a community fest again.

 

 

Change the hunt style:

We tried to come up with a hunt style that would make it impossible to jump the bag, and failed. I dont see how, with the current way Neno works, the players that put in the work can earn the reward.

 

Make it so the teleport to range spell doesn't work within 5-7 steps of the Neno

Nice idea, but this would also seriously impact the possible strategies while the Neno is still alive. If nothing else can be done, making the bag impossible to tele onto once the Neno is dead would certainly help but is in no way foolproof. I still would not want to participate in a hunt with such bagjumping risk.

 

well, its a special group fun and experience to hunt such creatures, the way it was made was completely new to what i saw in el, and i guess its the special excitement killing such a creature, the drop is just a top on the feeling you have playing such game....maybe make an automatic gathering to the leader of the hunting gang, or make the bag special locked so you need a special key to open it ?

Glad you enjoyed being part of the hunt :)

It is hard to determine the 'leader' of the hunting gang, but in principle something like this would work.

 

Well, what good is to jump day stone for anyway? I mean, it doesn't matter, who uses it, everyone gets the benefit of it...

Ever heard of holding for ransom? A day stone is worth a lot of money IF you can find a buyer (which most likely even a bagjumper can). This means that even the reward in the form of a #day can get stolen.

 

One non-restrictive thing could be done about that. Under e.g. 200 HP, Neno will become attackable as usual monster, that way, you can use gatherer and finish him the usual close combat way.

Sorry, but I don't like this idea at all, it would make Neno in the end just like any other creature AND the biggest fighter around will get the bag, intead of the team that worked for it.

 

Make the gcs/dropped stone automatically go into the inventory of the person who deployed the mines/caltops that made the most damage (cumulative of course). So if person A deploys mines and gets it down to 200 then person B deploys mines and kills the nenorocit, person A gets the drop.

Nice idea, but it will be hard to keep track of who did how much damage. After the first 50 or so(?) poisons the Neno gets poisoned and each caltrop does a lot more damage. It gets real tricky to keep track of then AND the first caltrops were just as important for success as the later ones. It is also hard to implement if person A is not around at the kill moment.

 

Maybe as an idea remove the gc drop completely and just have it do nice special days?

This still doesn't solve the problem of bagjumping a day or bad-day-removal stone which is dropped and takes away what little reward exists just for the team that killed it. It becomes pure charity work then, and then I'd rather donate the Neno proceeds to GIWS.

 

Here is my idea:

When a mine/caltrop is placed, connect a tag to it with the ID of the player who placed it.

If a regular creatures steps on it, the ID is used to calculate the damage based on the eng level of the player. I assume this dbase call is currently made when the player places the mine, instead of at explosion, since damage depends on that. It would just save a different number (ID instead of eng level).

If Neno steps on it, the 'owner' of the mine gets a couple of points (e.g. equal to the base damage) added to his Neno-credit, similar mechanism to buying lottery tickets. Once this Neno is killed, the death is announced in a channel, e.g. channel 8, together with the name of the person with most Neno credit and the reward (both gc and stone) become available from an NPC for pickup by this person.

 

This way the people placing the most caltrops (all equally expensive but not equally effective in damage) get the responsibility of the stone. If such a leader is not fair in distributing the gc, they will probably find themselves without other 'minelayers' the next time they want to hunt ;)

If the stone doesnt get used at a nice time, the leader will find it hard to find 'herders' for the next hunt. These herders, spotters and trappers also make an investment, and their time should get rewarded with the full use of a #day, not whatever time remains for the day when the kill happens.

 

I hope that this idea is practically possible. I think it would bring the Neno hunt back into the game in full swing, as a great fun activity for the whole EL community, not just fighters but everyone can participate and benefit.

Please feel free to show me the flaws in my reasoning :whistle:

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Here is my idea:

When a mine/caltrop is placed, connect a tag to it with the ID of the player who placed it.

If a regular creatures steps on it, the ID is used to calculate the damage based on the eng level of the player. I assume this dbase call is currently made when the player places the mine, instead of at explosion, since damage depends on that. It would just save a different number (ID instead of eng level).

If Neno steps on it, the 'owner' of the mine gets a couple of points (e.g. equal to the base damage) added to his Neno-credit, similar mechanism to buying lottery tickets. Once this Neno is killed, the death is announced in a channel, e.g. channel 8, together with the name of the person with most Neno credit and the reward (both gc and stone) become available from an NPC for pickup by this person.

 

This way the people placing the most caltrops (all equally expensive but not equally effective in damage) get the responsibility of the stone. If such a leader is not fair in distributing the gc, they will probably find themselves without other 'minelayers' the next time they want to hunt ;)

If the stone doesnt get used at a nice time, the leader will find it hard to find 'herders' for the next hunt. These herders, spotters and trappers also make an investment, and their time should get rewarded with the full use of a #day, not whatever time remains for the day when the kill happens.

 

I hope that this idea is practically possible. I think it would bring the Neno hunt back into the game in full swing, as a great fun activity for the whole EL community, not just fighters but everyone can participate and benefit.

Please feel free to show me the flaws in my reasoning :whistle:

This sounds great Maxine. Love the idea!

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Since Nenorocit was introduced to the game I saw Maxine and Quesar taking part in the hunt. Maybe I am wrong but so far i havent saw anyone else be the leader of this hunt. I helped 2-3times with the hunt, once gave some few caltrops to Maxine but i never asked for gc back and wont. We got a nice #day and i was happy with it as most of the players in the game.

Those 50kgc should go to those who worked to get those traps to get Nenorocit. And as well as Dilly put it , the other bags is a different thing so shouldnt get involved with the new way of getting Nenorocit's bag to be saved from bjed.

 

So far the NPC idea of getting that bag saved is the best... maybe it will be put in practice or maybe not , but we have to consider the fact that a bjer will sell that stone , while Maxine so far has been one of the players who helped the comunity with those stones having this special #days for everyone who played the game. It will be only fair to change a bit the hunt of Nenorocit in such way to help the team and the community and not having put away because someone likes to play around with their work,nervs and fun in the end...

 

So yes Maxine, your idea seems reasonable :icon13:

Edited by Immortelle

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we have to consider the fact that a bjer will sell that stone

I think that he is even able to tempt to poof the stone if he get it...

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we have to consider the fact that a bjer will sell that stone

 

The buyer would be announced globally once he used the stone, could be quite a bad publicity for him/her, considering under what circumstances would ha/she acquire the stone in the first place.

 

But the sole idea of poofing the stone... Well, what to say - some people will just do, because they can...

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Here is my idea:

When a mine/caltrop is placed, connect a tag to it with the ID of the player who placed it.

If a regular creatures steps on it, the ID is used to calculate the damage based on the eng level of the player. I assume this dbase call is currently made when the player places the mine, instead of at explosion, since damage depends on that. It would just save a different number (ID instead of eng level).

If Neno steps on it, the 'owner' of the mine gets a couple of points (e.g. equal to the base damage) added to his Neno-credit, similar mechanism to buying lottery tickets. Once this Neno is killed, the death is announced in a channel, e.g. channel 8, together with the name of the person with most Neno credit and the reward (both gc and stone) become available from an NPC for pickup by this person.

If the idea of an ID of the engineer who placed it was used, would the person then be able to go cash in an engineering quest and have it affect the strength of the mine? Would this be acceptable if they could? I doubt it would make sense for them to be able to do that, but I don't really care since I am just posting this for people to think over.

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The strength of the damage is proportional to (engineering level/5), so unless you were at x4 or x9, AND were able to go cash in a quest between placing the trops and them exploding, it would not matter. The time before use, if used at all, is typically less than a minute for any caltrops in neno hunts, and the hunt is not something you can run away from anyway. So I don't think this is a concern.

What I don't know is how this method would affect the engineering quests, since in this scheme the ID checks happens on explosion and not on placement, so it might affect the code for those. Anyway, that would be real easy to check on the test server :)

Edited by Maxine

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sorry, i stoped reading and decided to wait for the movie to come out... anyway, im not sure if this idea has come up yet but here is a crazy idea for how to salve this... use the tele to range yourself? or maby the blockers can be ready for that? i think you all do this in a group and everyone just stands there and lets someone not in the group take the bag? i think someone said that there opinion was that it needed to be the group who salved the problem, i agrea with that... and also agrea with the one that said anything you do will only make it easyer for someone to BJ you anyway(apart from the instance idea)... i dont hunt the creature and dont think i will ever do so but that is my thoughts on it

Edited by Orick

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sorry, i stoped reading ...

Maybe you should have bothered to read instead of writing about something you have no clue about, since you would have seen the answer many times. All people present were ready with tele to range, but we are all noobs at that, so didn't get the bag. It is currently trivial for any bj-er who has perfected his tactic to get the bag. Only current defense is get even better bj-ers that are actually honest pirates.

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If you had bothered to read you would have seen that there were many people with tele to range ready. Even a few honest pirates were on our side. We had the bad luck of having the neno die right at morath's feet. Most of this thread is just trying to find a way to have some community fun that is a little harder to ruin. Just one little thing in the game that isn't easy to harass.

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I retract my original suggestion. Neno is way too easy to farm already.

Instead of having it give a stone that would be ready for pickup by the engineer with most 'points', I would modify my suggestion to the following:

 

Modified suggestion:

Any time Neno dies, the next full day becomes the selected special day (starting at 0:00) OR the next removable bad day gets automatically removed (with announcement of course). This way the benefit of the special day is kept and benefits everyone. No more risk of making a special day that will only last for minutes :P

If Neno is killed, it does not respawn till the next day.

 

The point system as proposed determines the shares of the engineers in the 50k gc (wont cover the cost, but helps a lot).

Nevermind. I dont see any way in which Neno becomes non-farmable and still a community fun project with a special reward.

I hope my guildies will still be able to get some community stones while the commercial farmers are sleeping. :( Unfortunately no such benefit for me.

Edited by Maxine
new suggestion

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