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Concerning bagjumping

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What about taking an item from the bag and replacing it to refresh it ...booooom lol .let them poof?

If you bagmix, why would you need someone else to refresh it ? :P

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E2: how about a rosto for teleport nexus? lose the stone instead of teleporting (you could call it a bribe for MN)

No more mining in expensive gear since you'd lose rosto everytime you hit tele nexus :P

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hmm, the idea with rule #2, yes i would say it fits, but im not a mod :whistle:

 

well but rule #3 says bagjumping/stealing is ok :confused:

 

so, again nothing you can do...

 

Rule #3 does not say that bagjumping/stealing is ok - it says that Rule #3 (Respect Others) does not apply to bagjumping/stealing. This seems to indicate to me that, while Rule #3 itself does not ban such activities, it leaves the door open for such activities to break other rules. That is why I am asking if, when taken too far, such activities can be done in such a manner that they violate Rule #2.

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Old and teary story. No risk, no gain.

 

Simple solution. Stop using bags in the way they never were meant to.

 

This game has its charm, because it isn't self-playing. That's how I like it.

 

Groomsh's idea isn't bad. Though, I'd want to see 'mishaps', when the mine blows straight in the face of a person setting it. :shrugs: Just my twisted sense of humour, perhaps.

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No more mining in expensive gear since you'd lose rosto everytime you hit tele nexus :P

:brooding: I was thinking of a cheaper rosto-like stone that would only be removed if you were hit by a teleport nexus.... as ant-teleport-nexus stone

 

 

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hmm, the idea with rule #2, yes i would say it fits, but im not a mod :whistle:

 

well but rule #3 says bagjumping/stealing is ok :confused:

 

so, again nothing you can do...

 

Rule #3 does not say that bagjumping/stealing is ok - it says that Rule #3 (Respect Others) does not apply to bagjumping/stealing. This seems to indicate to me that, while Rule #3 itself does not ban such activities, it leaves the door open for such activities to break other rules. That is why I am asking if, when taken too far, such activities can be done in such a manner that they violate Rule #2.

No, it has nothing to do with rule #2.

 

*tries again*.

The bag situation is INTENTIONAL. It is not meant to be safe, it is meant to have risk. Death bags are intentional, the iffy nature of getting your stuff back is intentional. Using bags to mix is your choice of taking the risk. If you get bagjumped or your stuff gets stolen if you go off the bag for ANY reason, oh well, you chose the risk, you have to be willing to accept the consequences. Lag, grueing, mother nature teleports...that is ALL part of the risk.

Rules 2 and 3 are NOT about game mechanics and bag risk IS game mechanics. That is why rule 3 mentions this does not apply to things such as spawns, bagjumping, etc. Intentionally so.

 

You all can argue until you are blue in the face about reasons bags should be made safe. They won't be. There HAS to be an element of risk in the game or it is a non-game. It's not like you are inhibited from mixing or getting stuff if you don't use bags. You have options to minimize, if not completely remove, your risk.

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hmm, the idea with rule #2, yes i would say it fits, but im not a mod :whistle:

 

well but rule #3 says bagjumping/stealing is ok :confused:

 

so, again nothing you can do...

 

Rule #3 does not say that bagjumping/stealing is ok - it says that Rule #3 (Respect Others) does not apply to bagjumping/stealing. This seems to indicate to me that, while Rule #3 itself does not ban such activities, it leaves the door open for such activities to break other rules. That is why I am asking if, when taken too far, such activities can be done in such a manner that they violate Rule #2.

No, it has nothing to do with rule #2.

 

*tries again*.

The bag situation is INTENTIONAL. It is not meant to be safe, it is meant to have risk. Death bags are intentional, the iffy nature of getting your stuff back is intentional. Using bags to mix is your choice of taking the risk. If you get bagjumped or your stuff gets stolen if you go off the bag for ANY reason, oh well, you chose the risk, you have to be willing to accept the consequences. Lag, grueing, mother nature teleports...that is ALL part of the risk.

Rules 2 and 3 are NOT about game mechanics and bag risk IS game mechanics. That is why rule 3 mentions this does not apply to things such as spawns, bagjumping, etc. Intentionally so.

 

Thanks - that answers my question (whether Rule #2 would ever apply).

 

 

 

You all can argue until you are blue in the face about reasons bags should be made safe. They won't be. There HAS to be an element of risk in the game or it is a non-game. It's not like you are inhibited from mixing or getting stuff if you don't use bags. You have options to minimize, if not completely remove, your risk.

 

I completely agree - I'll say again that I was not trying to challenge bagjumping itself, just trying to find out if the manner in which a player went about bagjumping or interacting with the player that got jumped could violate Rule #2 (I had not been able to find this addressed elsewhere).

 

What caused me to read Rule #2 with bagjumping in mind was a former bagjumper (now serving out a permaban) suggesting to me that my giving him a hard time over his behavior constituted harassment. (Mind you, there was no inappropriate language used by me nor was anything else done on my part could be construed to violate any part of any rule other than, to him, the "systematically and/or continually unwanted and annoying" clause in Rule #2.)

 

Thanks for clearing this up!

 

 

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What caused me to read Rule #2 with bagjumping in mind was a former bagjumper (now serving out a permaban) suggesting to me that my giving him a hard time over his behavior constituted harassment. (Mind you, there was no inappropriate language used by me nor was anything else done on my part could be construed to violate any part of any rule other than, to him, the "systematically and/or continually unwanted and annoying" clause in Rule #2.)

 

Heh. I do suggest that one check with mods before accepting as gospel the word of a random player about rule application.

As you can see, sometimes they aren't exactly reliable. ;)

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bags weren't ever meant to be safe but it would be really awesome to have some sort of item that would combat tele nexus tbh. kind of like how there are the point defense stones to help combat ranger damage in PK. the tele nexus are the only thing that you can't protect yourself from when bag mixing, every other situation you would have to make a decision to get up off your bag to do whatever.

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bags weren't ever meant to be safe but it would be really awesome to have some sort of item that would combat tele nexus tbh.  kind of like how there are the point defense stones to help combat ranger damage in PK.  the tele nexus are the only thing that you can't protect yourself from when bag mixing, every other situation you would have to make a decision to get up off your bag to do whatever.

No, bags aren't supposed to be safe, even if you hit a tele nexus.

 

DON'T USE BAGS! Or be willing to suffer the consequences if you do. You can lag out, the bag can poof, you can get tported, and invasion could happen, etc. DON'T USE BAGS!

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bags weren't ever meant to be safe but it would be really awesome to have some sort of item that would combat tele nexus tbh. kind of like how there are the point defense stones to help combat ranger damage in PK. the tele nexus are the only thing that you can't protect yourself from when bag mixing, every other situation you would have to make a decision to get up off your bag to do whatever.

No, bags aren't supposed to be safe, even if you hit a tele nexus.

 

DON'T USE BAGS! Or be willing to suffer the consequences if you do. You can lag out, the bag can poof, you can get tported, and invasion could happen, etc. DON'T USE BAGS!

 

 

yes !!!!

 

but...ummm

 

some are here thinking about placing mines/bombs into bags, some thinking about password covered bags, why do they think so ???

 

its just, having a harvest / mix party is real fun , instead of sitting half of time semi afk to get ings by yourself :pickaxe:

 

and its not about bags being save or not, its again that a bunch of ppl have chosen to play as bagjumpers and upset ppl, not about loosing a bag by mistake....

 

we all know we can loose things, but a bag is part of the game - so why not use it ? and in the past month - before yarr - it was a risk easy to calculate, but now there are ppl just running to all harvest places just to look if they can get a drop, errrmmm again ...

 

and yes, it is not against the rules to bagjump, it would be against the rules to have something against it...lol

 

ok, again only my thoughts....and some wouldn't like it, but i still know lonely hidden places for harvest / mix partys :fire:

Edited by wuffzel

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bags weren't ever meant to be safe but it would be really awesome to have some sort of item that would combat tele nexus tbh. kind of like how there are the point defense stones to help combat ranger damage in PK. the tele nexus are the only thing that you can't protect yourself from when bag mixing, every other situation you would have to make a decision to get up off your bag to do whatever.

No, bags aren't supposed to be safe, even if you hit a tele nexus.

 

DON'T USE BAGS! Or be willing to suffer the consequences if you do. You can lag out, the bag can poof, you can get tported, and invasion could happen, etc. DON'T USE BAGS!

 

Bags aren't supposed to be safe but you are supposed to be able to have a damn opinion about the matter. WE KNOW YOURS. Let others have ideas. Talk never hurt anyone. Having ways to defend yourself against the one thing, besides lagging, that makes you vulnerable to BJers wouldn't be bad IMO. At least then the 'its the victims fault' stance isn't such BS.

Edited by Nova

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At least then the 'its the victims fault' stance isn't such BS.

The problem is that it always IS the victims fault. If you're lazy (or whatever) to find a decent place to bagmix or you REALLY need the CLOSEST to storage place, then you willingly chose the risk (imho i don't get the purpose of being close to storage when you bagmix).

I personally bagmix a LOT a have never been bagjumped... Oh wait i was! In EVTR mine where i left 1 bone on the ground when WitchDoctor (from YARR) was sitting next to me - i had a good laugh when i hit a tele nexus and he jumped it :D

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Bag jumping and death bag stealing is part of game - it is DESIGNED to help the antisocial. Where would you rather them be on the street robbing and killing old ladies for welfare checks or vandalizing public and private property or in game doing nasty deeds with electrons?

 

I had some of these type of players in a game - it was high enough level game that new players had to have items and every time we had a new player join they would try to get new player killed to take items, to get experience, etc so I just had occasional person join in who would be able to kill them or take their items. When they complained about it I said their characters had no idea if new person was NPC or PC and I used same generation tables with new players as I did with them. When they could not be bullies all the tine they changed their tunes. In this case the antisocial players in many case rule the game and rules are designed to aid them so do not expect it to change.

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It is so much a part of game that it, bags disappearing and being unarmed and being killed by someone just because they can should be part of newbie tutorial.

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It's getting silly.

 

I love seeing "bags were never meant to be safe" and "there should be some stuff to protect against being bagjumped" and the like posted by one person, frequently in a single sentence. The lack of logic is just stunning.

 

Bags were never meant to be a solution for hauling goods to a storage. Period. They were never meant to be safe. Period. They were never meant to be used for mixing. Period. The possibility of losing your gear when you die is a penalty for being careless. Period.

 

Most of the people agree with it, yet, some of them demands there is a 'but' instead of 'period' in each of these sentences.

 

Bags were never meant to be a solution for hauling goods to a storage, but let's make an item that would teleport them to the range. Bags were never meant to be safe, but let's make an item that will protect them against bagjumper or even let's provide a password allowing only people knowing it to open them. Bags were never meant as a termporal storages while mining, but let's make an item that would prevent us from moving from them. We know there should be a penalty if we die, but let's make our deathbags protected against others if we forget rostogol stone or mess up while we take a risk of eating shrooms. Well... let's just make bags safe!!11~

Hah. There was this awesome game that played itself for you. It required just one click to start it.

 

PS. Why the anger? Everybody's allowed to express their opinion, right?

Edited by Vanyel

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Seriously...saying "do not use bags" makes absolutely no sense what so ever. You're basically saying eliminate group projects. Group projects are an essential part of EL.

To the people who say "don't use bags", have you ever been in a guild or participated in any sort of group activity? Ever done a 350 s2e project in less than 24 hours?

Not all of us want to play solo all the time. Whether it is group mixing projects or group fights in KF, this is still a community game and should remain that way. If we're going to start saying don't use bags, then we may as well start saying don't do a/d because you may die.

A lot of us have been bag jumped before (some of us plenty of times). Eventually we learn to be more careful and the problem is solved.

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Seriously...saying "do not use bags" makes absolutely no sense what so ever. You're basically saying eliminate group projects. Group projects are an essential part of EL.

To the people who say "don't use bags", have you ever been in a guild or participated in any sort of group activity? Ever done a 350 s2e project in less than 24 hours?

Not all of us want to play solo all the time. Whether it is group mixing projects or group fights in KF, this is still a community game and should remain that way. If we're going to start saying don't use bags, then we may as well start saying don't do a/d because you may die.

A lot of us have been bag jumped before (some of us plenty of times). Eventually we learn to be more careful and the problem is solved.

 

 

 

All what is said is:

 

Do not use bags if you are NOT ready to face a risk of losing it.

 

Same goes for a/d training:

 

Do not train your attack/defence skills if you are NOT ready to get killed by a monsters you are training on.

 

Simple like that.

 

Additionally, if it is a group project there always should be a person able to react soon enough not to let others 'jump' on your goods, right? If you miss a person like this you've planned something wrong.

 

Yes, I've been in a guild a few times. I took part in some projects, a few times, too. We never got bagjumped. We knew the risk and took measures to avoid any mishaps.

Edited by Vanyel
always messing up \ with / Too much TeX.

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+1 to everything hussam said about group projects. Other dangers/risks in the game have some sort of protection against them, rostos, Point Defense, MM cape, Invis pot/spell, just to name a few off the top of my head. Why not a protection for this so that there is at least a chance to keep someone from ruining a groups enjoyment of the game? You still have to be smart about it, you still have to pick a good place and know enough not to get off the bag on purpose, you have to remember the protection item and have enough with you to last and no one is saying this protective item shouldn't take a lot of ings to make or be very heavy or require a high skill level craft. Why not think about it rather then just auto reply when you see the word bag mix or group project? 1 small protection does not take away all danger. As I dislike repeating myself and butting my head against walls thats all I have left to say here.

 

#Edit- not sure why I am so hung up on the protective item for tele nexus. I guess it just seems to make the most sense to me and still leave some danger in using a bag to mix. Hopefully the jist of what I am trying to say comes across rather then the idea I used for an example. OK, now that is all, I swear.

Edited by Nova

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+1 to everything hussam said about group projects.

Well, i made few big projects (like 10 titanium sets, all color clothes sets ...) and it is doable ;)

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First of all, I never said don't use bags. I said there are alternatives if you are not ready and willing to accept the risks. Bag mixing is NOT required for gameplay. Not for solo or group projects. If we removed bags tonight, there is NOTHING in this game you still could not do. If you can chat and help each other around a bag, you can do the same at a storage.

 

Secondly, I view using bags as similar to taking a shortcut through an unlit park at night. It's risky, you know it's risky but you REALLY want to get home and watch that TV show at 10pm and the safe way home takes longer and you might miss it. Not exactly a necessity, watching that TV show. You gamble and take that shortcut through the dark unprotected park knowing you could get mugged or worse. Who's not done something like that? Same thing here. People are claiming they NEED to use bags but they don't. Bags are a shortcut to make more things faster than was intended by game design.

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