Concerning bagjumping

[Melerion]

Let me start with: I know there is no policy against it.

 

That said: there should be.

 

In todays incident it was through my own carelessness and while I was actually on the way of finishing this latest session a fellow player and I got bagjumped by members of the infamous YARR guild. We have spent countless hours preparing whatever was in that bag and for the most part been tremendously careful that there was no chance to get jumped, however a split second delay in the handoff sufficed and everything was gone.

 

My point being that nobody around could have ever had the impression this bag was abandoned or intentionally left for anybody else.

 

Harvesting and mixing is something that takes a lot of time and is something that is encouraged not to be done afk. Which I can understand. However if the time invested by me / us / any other player can be instantly transformed from having been a few hours of pleasant relaxation to a weeks worth of wasted time by a few antisocial punks I see no point in taking part in anything that endorses this kind of behaviour.

 

This event basically lost me and everybody I can reach as a player and customer. I am aware that I have not yet paid the big bucks at the store but I was actually on the verge of buying items because for the most part this game is well done and highly addictive.

 

Thanks for listening

[Aislinn]

No, there should not be a policy against it.

 

Bags were NEVER intended to be a safe holding location for your ingredients or finished products.

 

Intentionally, by game design, you have 2 choices:

1. Haul your ingredients to storage and safely mix there, without using a bag.

2. Take the gamble and use a bag to make things easier and quicker. But there is a price for that ease and speed, which you found out. Bags can poof, bags can be jumped.

 

A quick search will show you that many many many people over the years have said this very same thing.

 

Bags are not, and never were, intended for safe storage or safe temporary holding. Use at your own risk.

It is not the game's fault you chose the risk but are unwilling to honor the gamble.

[Miiks]

Bag aren't ment to be safe. Haul the harvestables to sto and mix them there so there's no risk of being bagjumped.

 

I think this has been discussed thousands of times before. Imo there's no need to make bagjumping illegal.

 

Thirdly this belongs to disputes, imo.

Edited February 3, 2011 by Miiks

[Forgiven]

Im sorry to hear about this Melerion. I guess you can just look at it as a lesson learned. Make sure you always observe whos around you before jumping off a bag and consider the location as well. Don't worry though, we all lose/break stuff so you just need to learn from it.

 

My tip is to just find a remote location to do events if possible, even if it means some extra time to storage.

[Learner]

Just don't use bags!

[Norm]

What fun is a game without risks? If bags were ever made safe, next you would have to make it where nothing drops when you die. To me, it is the same thing. Mix from bag is like training/fighting mobs without rosto. Mixing at resources saves time, which is a huge advantage. Imo, for balance sake, any advantage HAS to come with a risk.

[hussam]

Sorry to hear about your loss. I know it sucks when this happens.

However, all I can offer is some tips for your future projects:

1. Bag sitter should only mix, and never harvest. Harvesting means you may hit a tele nexus and expose the bag to bag jumpers.

2. Keep plenty of HE/SRs and pickaxes in the bag. Unless the project is a fire essence project, don't mix with toadstools.

3. Harvesters should only trade with bag sitter instead of people constantly moving on and off the bag.

4. Keep the number of bags to a minimum so only two bags if you need two mixers.

5. Keep true site potions in the bag and use them every so often to see if there are any invisible lurkers.

6. Don't do projects in highly populated areas. Instead choose remote locations that are far from storage. Hauling will be more tedious but it will mean less chance to get caught by bag jumpers.

7. Don't do projects where people may go afk or where some people may leave then later someone else joins in, etc.. That's just asking for trouble.

8. If you are doing mega projects that extend over long periods of time, mule the current harvestables/mixed items to storage and finish off some other time instead of locking your bag into hyperspace.

 

Having said that, keep in mind that most noob bagjumpers are just attention seekers and nothing more.

Edited February 4, 2011 by hussam

[Infect]

Solve all problems, don't use bags! Mix in inventory, it works just fine....

[wuffzel]

yes, its a big shame that here are ppl around who like to destroy other ppl's work/fun

 

i know some quit el cause of this for hours, days, months or even for longer..

 

but be shure

 

1. no save bag sitting, a grue can get you ...and poof

 

2. there is nothing you can do about it, only try to forget and make the life of bagjumpers as hard as possible

 

we did a lot of bag mixing at site in LLL and it was always fun and gave the 'boring' just harv and mix by yourself lots of fun, and strength to our comunity...

 

well, explore good hidden and far from store places or get some real tough fighters around you and bag-mix on pk maps

 

again its a big big shame that in such games the antisocial ppl have an advantage

 

sorry for your loss , and try to keep on

Edited February 4, 2011 by wuffzel

[Starlite]

I think nearly everyone has learnt this lesson, if you must use a bag, trade ings to each other do not step off the bag As Hussam said have the mixer sitting on the bag, then trade him/her.

[Lexi]

Honestly... if this was against he rules could you imagine the stress to the mods? :/

 

But really, I know how you feel, it's happened to us too, thankfully in my old guild I had lots of allies to help get it back (which we did get it back).

 

One thing to do instead of bag mixing, is mine mixing, this is different from bag mixing, you take a full inv to the most heavy ore/mineral, mix there, top off your inventory with the harvestable, and go back to storage, it saves time and trips, breaks off the monotony in harvesting, and it also avoids bag jumpers

 

I normally mine mix a lot of things, but mostly steel bars, by taking coal and fes to the iron mine, I get 40 steel bars (with my current emu) in one trip verse 2-3 runs to iron by mixing in storage for the same thing. Not to mention I get some iron to take to storage

[korrode]

You wouldn't make it "against the rules" anyway. You'd just do it programmatically server-side, by making people unable to interact with bags created by other players that aren't guildies/allied.

Edited February 8, 2011 by Korrode

[Riphath]

I know that there is not nor will there ever be any rule or policy against what I would call 'passive' bag-jumping. I agree with Aislinn's post completely and think that it is the way it ought to be.

 

 

 

 

However, I do not believe that is what happened in this case. This sounds to have been what I would call 'active' bag-jumping - where the one doing the jumping has a well-known reputation for hanging out in mines with no intent of mining (as frequently proven by the lack of harvesting tools - and you cannot claim that you are there to kill skeles when you are in Zirakgunda), waiting for someone to hit a teleport nexus or otherwise vacate there bag so that s/he can t2r onto it and then boast of the 'feat' and demand ransom or sell off the contents on the market channel.

 

I would like to know at what point, if ever, this behavior violates In-Game Rule #2, No Harassment, which states: "... or actions that are systematically and/or continually unwanted and annoying."

 

When one goes from one mine to the next - harving nothing, killing nothing, and sometimes invisible - looking for people with bags and waiting with t2r armed for them to vacate their bag for any reason under the sun, does this cross the line into being an action that is systematically and/or continually unwanted and annoying? If not, then what actions do?

 

 

 

 

Again, I am not referring to the common 'passive' bag-jumping - I only question whether/when the aggressive, systematic, in-your-face type of bag-jumping (such as the behavior that Blackbeard and his ilk advocate and practice) crosses the line into harassment.

[Zelius]

I think the real issue here is 'respect', which YARR is clearly lacking. It sucks not everyone can be a clean and honest player. Would make this game 10x better than it already is.

[forever]

Utopia can not exist Zelius.

 

If everyone was the same, this game would be boring and with out any real altercations or interesting interactions.

Edited February 9, 2011 by forever

[Khalai]

I think the real issue here is 'respect', which YARR is clearly lacking. It sucks not everyone can be a clean and honest player. Would make this game 10x better than it already is.

 

You need to see bad people in order to differentiate from the good people. Without comparision, how would you know, they are respectable? Good and evil - there is none without the other

[wuffzel]

"You wouldn't make it "against the rules" anyway. You'd just do it programmatically server-side, by making people unable to interact with bags created by other players that aren't guildies/allied."

 

oh, better not...i saved a lot of death bags, some worth a few 10k's and returned them to the owner, with this you can't do it for others

 

 

"You need to see bad people in order to differentiate from the good people. Without comparision, how would you know, they are respectable? Good and evil - there is none without the other"

 

well, as i said in other bagjumpers posts, they are not 'bad' or 'evil' or 'pirates'

in my eyes they are only ...hmmm lazzy, antisozial ppl who give a sh** about other ppl's work.

 

really every newbe can sit around and wait for a bag to be open cause the sitter hits a tele-nexus or grue.

 

nothing heroic about it even not close to any comunity-gameplay...

 

hmm, the idea with rule #2, yes i would say it fits, but im not a mod

 

well but rule #3 says bagjumping/stealing is ok

 

so, again nothing you can do...

[groomsh]

Or maybe implement a booby trap (special mine) that is activated by placing into bags and is triggered when somebody tries to get items out of the bag

The one who installed the trap would not trigger it and also if the bag poofs, the trap is triggered making damage to the one who sits on top of the bag.

Make it cost ~5kgc and invisible to a certain degree (you'd need high perception to see it).

[Dchels]

As much as i like that idea Groomsh, it would have its downfalls and could be abused.

 

1. ppl genuinely trying to save your db or keep a mix bag safe would be blown up.

2. abused by assholes dropping bags with the described mines in them around noobs or stores to get drops from players when they die

 

Davy

[groomsh]

As much as i like that idea Groomsh, it would have its downfalls and could be abused.

 

1. ppl genuinely trying to save your db or keep a mix bag safe would be blown up.

2. abused by assholes dropping bags with the described mines in them around noobs or stores to get drops from players when they die

 

Davy

Not really as i suggested that it blows up only when you try to pick up things from that bag

But yeah, your second point is valid tho ...

[forever]

@ Khalai

You truly understand Yin and Yang my friend

 

 

@ Wuffzel

 

It doesn't matter your perspective on them. they are a necessity for the game.. no matter how much they might piss you off. There are quite a few "revenge" tactics usable to get back at them. They aren't really abusing hard work. More-so abusing laziness of others. "I wanna mix in this here bag because it saves me xy amount of time". That's a perk with downfalls my friend.

[revi]

As much as i like that idea Groomsh, it would have its downfalls and could be abused.

 

1. ppl genuinely trying to save your db or keep a mix bag safe would be blown up.

2. abused by assholes dropping bags with the described mines in them around noobs or stores to get drops from players when they die

 

Davy

Not really as i suggested that it blows up only when you try to pick up things from that bag

But yeah, your second point is valid tho ...

 

And how do you keep a DB alive, or remove it from a dangerous place (invasions come to mind)?

[groomsh]

As much as i like that idea Groomsh, it would have its downfalls and could be abused.

 

1. ppl genuinely trying to save your db or keep a mix bag safe would be blown up.

2. abused by assholes dropping bags with the described mines in them around noobs or stores to get drops from players when they die

 

Davy

Not really as i suggested that it blows up only when you try to pick up things from that bag

But yeah, your second point is valid tho ...

 

And how do you keep a DB alive, or remove it from a dangerous place (invasions come to mind)?

 

I guess you would not place such item into a death bag ?

And as i said The one who installed the trap would not trigger it...

So if you get items out, you'll not trigger it, easy as that ...

[zalic]

password protected mines? insert the correct password and the bomb doesn't blow

 

 

 

 

E: if you didn't get it, that's a joke not real suggestion

E2: how about a rosto for teleport nexus? lose the stone instead of teleporting (you could call it a bribe for MN)

Edited February 9, 2011 by zalic

[Starlite]

What about taking an item from the bag and replacing it to refresh it ...booooom lol .let them poof?