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Snowdragon

Vallath - Fate

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[07:47:01] You kicked Fate out of the guild!

I can't understand how it's possible to fire who has you welcomed.

If someone can answer me...

 

They are many victims from Fate. Vallath is the bigger but *EL* and KnOw are too...

 

As KnOw guild master, i'm responsible and i have to assume a part of faults of my ex-guildie.

Honour and respect are main things that we are looking on into guild. Fate make faults that can't be forgiven.

I can't repair all was do by Fate but i want come to Vallath and *EL* with a friendly present and give to each a efe. I know, it's never be enough but i don't think Fate is looking to do the same because this kind of outlaw don't take experience from his acts.

I'm disenchanted by this kind of guys. I'm here to play and have fun with others and see that... ...i'm disgusted.

I present all my excuses to Vallath and to *EL* guild.

 

sincerely,

 

Snowdragon

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well, i would like to say that i forgive you, Fate. you made a mistake, and are atleast willing to admit it. seems like there are alot of people involved in this thread that have no business being involved....................

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*Forwarned I have no buisness in this thread*

 

-I'm so glad you have such good friends Val that they are your friends no matter what people are saying.

 

-Um, scammers/bj'ers I've known (admittedtly not well) cannot resist pk. So him sitting with me in TD for like 2 hours and not killing me (when I even give pki. admittedtly really crappy pki as I don't care!) doesn't fit.

 

-And for everyone who immedeatly believed Fate. Shame on you. Seriously, think about the person. I know I am as guilty of the next person in jumping to the conclusion that people I don't know are what people claim. But for thsoe of you who KNOW Val, seriously?

 

Scamming/bjing doesn't fit his personality. And certainly not something as crappy as those drops. (Hey, if it was dragon armor, NMT I might be tempted. But I've returned at least 1 bag with just short of 1mil gc (which is INSANE!! How can you drop that gc and not notice!) and tempted doesn't mean reality.

 

-Shame on you Fate. He tried to HELP you, and what he gets is his name ruined and a bad reputation. I seriously suggest you start a new character if you decide to keep playing EL. At your level its gonna be alot easier to rebuild your levels/items then to rebuild your name.

 

-Guinny (as Val would say)

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I think what you did was a really horrible thing, Fate, but I find it really bold that you were able to admit it (even if you got caught) AND apologize for it. What you did is not acceptable, but perhaps, in time, this incident might be swept under the carpet...

 

This community is forgiving, but not after multiple screw ups, so BEHAVE yourself. Bashing someone who helps you is completely f'ed up, but if you LEARNED anything, you'll know now that lying (for what EVER reason provoked you into this one) is not going to help you achieve.

 

Good luck to you man.

Edited by Lexi

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To everyone who who can't yet or won't forgive me..I abesolutely understand that and I totally deserve what the EL community give me. I promise that I won't EVER lie, cheat, scam, bj, or any other bad things EVER again. I'm just going to lay low for awhile and hope in time everyone forgives me for my really stupid mistake. I really do promise that nothing like this will ever happen again - though you probably won't take my word for it, after this whole stuff up on my account. I am going to offer the *EL* guild anything they want from my storage in a token of hardship of what they had to endure, because of my stupid and....if *EL* need help anytime or need something done I will always help them no matter what I am doing at the time and assist in any way I can, to both better and hopefully try to rebuild our friendships - thats even if they want my help ever again.

 

Thanks

 

~Fate

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I dont think vallath is a bag jumper or scammer and neither does inferno but when asked to see logs from his side so we could argue this he had none. So yes they can be faked and yes we kicked him because of this. All you see are chat logs in disputes with ppl making conclusions from them. *EL* guild is damned if we do damned if we dont for this.We side with Vallath we have a scammer, we kick vallath we are wrong for not sticking up for our guildie. So ppl can think what they want of us. Fact is we werent taking the chance.

 

Having had to deal with a similar incident in my own guild, I fully appreciate that such decisions are never easy. However, if you don't believe someone to be a bag-jumper/scammer, and there's no conclusive evidence to suggest otherwise, then kicking them merely on the off-chance of being incorrect seems a bit over-zealous.

 

Unless loyalty in a guild is shown in both directions, there's really not much point in being part of one.

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I dont think vallath is a bag jumper or scammer and neither does inferno but when asked to see logs from his side so we could argue this he had none. So yes they can be faked and yes we kicked him because of this. All you see are chat logs in disputes with ppl making conclusions from them. *EL* guild is damned if we do damned if we dont for this.We side with Vallath we have a scammer, we kick vallath we are wrong for not sticking up for our guildie. So ppl can think what they want of us. Fact is we werent taking the chance.

 

Having had to deal with a similar incident in my own guild, I fully appreciate that such decisions are never easy. However, if you don't believe someone to be a bag-jumper/scammer, and there's no conclusive evidence to suggest otherwise, then kicking them merely on the off-chance of being incorrect seems a bit over-zealous.

 

Unless loyalty in a guild is shown in both directions, there's really not much point in being part of one.

 

 

the logs showed he had Fate's items, was supposedly there etc etc. Which we found to be fake once vallath was already removed from *EL* and someone kindly helped us out by using their own logs as well as someone elses and proving Fate to be lying. We also wanted Vallath's name cleared. so Munt please read all of the post before passing judgements. It's not the fact we thought badly of vallath or thought he did it. Inferno did what he had to do as GM going by our rules and policies. He didnt do it because he wanted to.

 

As for guild loyalty.. you need to stop their my old friend. Loyalty is something you didnt show before i destroyed TKN. But this is not the place for that.

Edited by Caliphear

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[the logs showed he had Fate's items, was supposedly there etc etc. Which we found to be fake once vallath was already removed from *EL* and someone kindly helped us out by using their own logs as well as someone elses and proving Fate to be lying. We also wanted Vallath's name cleared. so Munt please read all of the post before passing judgements. It's not the fact we thought badly of vallath or thought he did it. Inferno did what he had to do as GM going by our rules and policies. He didnt do it because he wanted to.

 

As for guild loyalty.. you need to stop their my old friend. Loyalty is something you didnt show before i destroyed TKN. But this is not the place for that.

 

I can appreciate that the decision wasn't easily taken. My point is that it certainly proved rather presumptuous and ultimately very unfair. For the sake of taking the slightest risk, you've effectively ended up humiliating someone for no better reason than his being a victim of a scam.

 

I'm probably not the only person here to have some considerable sympathy with the way Vallath must feels about his treatment, least of all because I remember being in guild where the GM dispensed the same arbitrary justice.

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[the logs showed he had Fate's items, was supposedly there etc etc. Which we found to be fake once vallath was already removed from *EL* and someone kindly helped us out by using their own logs as well as someone elses and proving Fate to be lying. We also wanted Vallath's name cleared. so Munt please read all of the post before passing judgements. It's not the fact we thought badly of vallath or thought he did it. Inferno did what he had to do as GM going by our rules and policies. He didnt do it because he wanted to.

 

As for guild loyalty.. you need to stop their my old friend. Loyalty is something you didnt show before i destroyed TKN. But this is not the place for that.

 

I can appreciate that the decision wasn't easily taken. My point is that it certainly proved rather presumptuous and ultimately very unfair. For the sake of taking the slightest risk, you've effectively ended up humiliating someone for no better reason than his being a victim of a scam.

 

I'm probably not the only person here to have some considerable sympathy with the way Vallath must feels about his treatment, least of all because I remember being in guild where the GM dispensed the same arbitrary justice.

 

You need to learn that ultimately not fair for one person might be fair for everyone. Leaving one person in the guild who may or may not have bag jumped, scammed, or broken our rules in general could leave the rest of my guildies to believe that they can also do so. And if I kick another guildie for doing something of a shameful nature, I'd be the arse in the situation no?

 

So stop telling me how unfair and heinous what we did was. That's not the situation at hand. You come here with your ass on your shoulders ticked off because caliphear destroyed the guild you were in. You already remade it, stop coming back and forth here like we owe you something. You're just jumping on she and I because you're trying your damnest to put us in our place.

 

Munt,

Grow up.

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You need to learn that ultimately not fair for one person might be fair for everyone. Leaving one person in the guild who may or may not have bag jumped, scammed, or broken our rules in general could leave the rest of my guildies to believe that they can also do so. And if I kick another guildie for doing something of a shameful nature, I'd be the arse in the situation no?

 

So stop telling me how unfair and heinous what we did was. That's not the situation at hand. You come here with your ass on your shoulders ticked off because caliphear destroyed the guild you were in. You already remade it, stop coming back and forth here like we owe you something. You're just jumping on she and I because you're trying your damnest to put us in our place.

 

Munt,

Grow up.

 

Regardless all the past issues between Munt and Caliphear.

 

In my opinion, *EL* guild leaders acted too fast and did not waste their time to investigate the matter. In my opinion it's plain bullshit to try to excuse themselves. I remember the chat in channel 6. Not even a single person who actually knew Vallath thought, for a second, he scammed/bagjumped anybody. It has been pointed out by countless that logs can be forged within 1 minute.

 

If it was my guild I'd rather trust my guildie, look into the matter and then act. Isn't it the only reasonable way? You folks first shot, then asked questions. A very good, well tested Wild West method. Way to go! Keep it up! Lame.

Edited by Vanyel

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You need to learn that ultimately not fair for one person might be fair for everyone. Leaving one person in the guild who may or may not have bag jumped, scammed, or broken our rules in general could leave the rest of my guildies to believe that they can also do so. And if I kick another guildie for doing something of a shameful nature, I'd be the arse in the situation no?

 

So stop telling me how unfair and heinous what we did was. That's not the situation at hand. You come here with your ass on your shoulders ticked off because caliphear destroyed the guild you were in. You already remade it, stop coming back and forth here like we owe you something. You're just jumping on she and I because you're trying your damnest to put us in our place.

 

Munt,

Grow up.

 

Regardless all the past issues between Munt and Caliphear.

 

In my opinion, *EL* guild leaders acted too fast and did not waste their time to investigate the matter. In my opinion it's plain bullshit to try to excuse themselves. I remember the chat in channel 6. Not even a single person who actually knew Vallath thought, for a second, he scammed/bagjumped anybody. It has been pointed out by countless that logs can be forged within 1 minute.

 

If it was my guild I'd rather trust my guildie, look into the matter and then act. Isn't it the only reasonable way? You folks first shot, then asked questions. A very good, well tested Wild West method. Way to go! Keep it up! Lame.

You know Vanyel it's not your guild to make decisions. It's not your guild at all so your fucking opinion means moot to me. I don't care what you think.

 

You're so full of it in claiming I didn't ask questions first. I didn't ask for an OPINION of a person because the nicest person in the entire world, someone you trust more than anything can turn a leaf in a matter of a second. Look at spartan_warrior thread.

 

I asked for his side, he told me what he said, and I asked for some logs or something I could use to fight against their accusations and he had none. So I had to act based upon that.

 

So get off your freaking high horse. It's pathetic how you are trying to run my mind, my guild, and everything. I really don't care what YOU of all people have to say.

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You need to learn that ultimately not fair for one person might be fair for everyone. Leaving one person in the guild who may or may not have bag jumped, scammed, or broken our rules in general could leave the rest of my guildies to believe that they can also do so. And if I kick another guildie for doing something of a shameful nature, I'd be the arse in the situation no?

 

So stop telling me how unfair and heinous what we did was. That's not the situation at hand. You come here with your ass on your shoulders ticked off because caliphear destroyed the guild you were in. You already remade it, stop coming back and forth here like we owe you something. You're just jumping on she and I because you're trying your damnest to put us in our place.

 

Munt,

Grow up.

 

Regardless all the past issues between Munt and Caliphear.

 

In my opinion, *EL* guild leaders acted too fast and did not waste their time to investigate the matter. In my opinion it's plain bullshit to try to excuse themselves. I remember the chat in channel 6. Not even a single person who actually knew Vallath thought, for a second, he scammed/bagjumped anybody. It has been pointed out by countless that logs can be forged within 1 minute.

 

If it was my guild I'd rather trust my guildie, look into the matter and then act. Isn't it the only reasonable way? You folks first shot, then asked questions. A very good, well tested Wild West method. Way to go! Keep it up! Lame.

 

As i have said before I will say one last time. ALL of you have labeled and made assumptions on ppl just by chat logs alone. It is proven countless times in the dispute threads. When Vallath did not produce his logs to help us prove fate wrong like we had hoped to do, Inferno did what he had to as GM. So you can all try and start a childish flame war on *EL* but i for one am no longer to going reply or acknowledge it. I am above it.

 

The fact is Vallaths name is cleared and we are happy about that. Fate has apologized like we had insisted. The truth was brought to light and the matter is closed. So continue your opinions, your flames, your childish comments as you wish. It still stands *EL* tolerates NO bag jumping, scamming, etc and if you can not show proof you have not done so when accused, you are removed. Period.

Edited by Caliphear

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You need to learn that ultimately not fair for one person might be fair for everyone. Leaving one person in the guild who may or may not have bag jumped, scammed, or broken our rules in general could leave the rest of my guildies to believe that they can also do so. And if I kick another guildie for doing something of a shameful nature, I'd be the arse in the situation no?

 

So stop telling me how unfair and heinous what we did was. That's not the situation at hand. You come here with your ass on your shoulders ticked off because caliphear destroyed the guild you were in. You already remade it, stop coming back and forth here like we owe you something. You're just jumping on she and I because you're trying your damnest to put us in our place.

 

Munt,

Grow up.

 

Regardless all the past issues between Munt and Caliphear.

 

In my opinion, *EL* guild leaders acted too fast and did not waste their time to investigate the matter. In my opinion it's plain bullshit to try to excuse themselves. I remember the chat in channel 6. Not even a single person who actually knew Vallath thought, for a second, he scammed/bagjumped anybody. It has been pointed out by countless that logs can be forged within 1 minute.

 

If it was my guild I'd rather trust my guildie, look into the matter and then act. Isn't it the only reasonable way? You folks first shot, then asked questions. A very good, well tested Wild West method. Way to go! Keep it up! Lame.

You know Vanyel it's not your guild to make decisions. It's not your guild at all so your fucking opinion means moot to me. I don't care what you think.

 

You're so full of it in claiming I didn't ask questions first. I didn't ask for an OPINION of a person because the nicest person in the entire world, someone you trust more than anything can turn a leaf in a matter of a second. Look at spartan_warrior thread.

 

I asked for his side, he told me what he said, and I asked for some logs or something I could use to fight against their accusations and he had none. So I had to act based upon that.

 

So get off your freaking high horse. It's pathetic how you are trying to run my mind, my guild, and everything. I really don't care what YOU of all people have to say.

 

 

I know Vaynel has something against me, i dont know what, nor do i care anymore.

But obviously Inferno tried to look into like he said. Vallath couldnt produce any logs, and when I asked, he said he didnt know where to find them. Upon that I posted here; that I had my logs which contradicted those of Fates' and a few pms where sent between me and Inferno, to try and suss out what had happened, half way through this Fate logged in, so i Pm'd him, and from that ^ you saw he admitted to lying.

 

I believed Vallath from the start, but its up to a guild master to not just respect ONE guild member, he has a whole guild to comply with. If guildies are requesting the guild master to tell them whats actually going on, and he cant due to logs not being shown, they will go in uproar and the guilds rep will be ruined.

 

Inferno and Cali CLEARLY dont want this, and tbh munt had no reason to join in the dispute especially when he makes it personal to Cali.... PM's are for that.

 

The whole thing is rather childish, Fate has apologised so why all the unnecessary Trolling? :>

 

P.S Vany you can be very condecending.

Edited by _iNvoKeD

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You need to learn that ultimately not fair for one person might be fair for everyone. Leaving one person in the guild who may or may not have bag jumped, scammed, or broken our rules in general could leave the rest of my guildies to believe that they can also do so. And if I kick another guildie for doing something of a shameful nature, I'd be the arse in the situation no?

The point you make, ie (what is fair for one may not be fair for everyone), is true enough. However, your justification for making an example out of Vallath seems to owe far less to any concern of fairness towards your guild than it does your own fear of being seen as an 'arse'. Under the circumstances, its difficult to miss the irony of your present position.

 

So stop telling me how unfair and heinous what we did was. That's not the situation at hand. You come here with your ass on your shoulders ticked off because caliphear destroyed the guild you were in. You already remade it, stop coming back and forth here like we owe you something. You're just jumping on she and I because you're trying your damnest to put us in our place.

Relax Inferno. I'm quite sure I could have found better opportunities to 'put you in your place' before now. So please lets leave all the irrelevant ancient history and fanciful paranoia where it rightfully belongs, and try to keep things reasonably on-topic.

Edited by themuntdregger

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... turn a leaf in a matter of a second. Look at spartan_warrior thread.

 

 

hahah i dont think you needed to go that far :P

 

i do have something to say that carries some importance, take it as you will. when you look at scammers/liars/etc today there's something really unique to how the community reacts to the different ways they accept/ostracize them.

speaking completely objective of my actions in the past, there's really a few different ways this could have played out.

1. Scam/Lie was caught, and apology issued

community will hate him, and he'll really be banned from some bots, guilds, etc while he looks like a wuss with his tail between his legs, but in time people will forgive but never forget although they might forgive so apologizing was useless. really you just can't know what this person's intentions are.

 

2. Scam/Lie was caught, apology issued, then scammed again, rinse, repeat

community will hate him, and they become completely banned from every bot, he'll look like a moron and no one will have respect for him. these people are stupid.

 

3. Scam/Lie was caught, no apology, (optional - scam repeated.)

community will hate him, but they know who theyre dealing with and what their intentions are and don't have to second guess anything. they won't hide behind apologies, false or not, or have to deal with knowing who is against them or the few who are not against them.

 

 

 

 

In essence I can't see how you can have respect for him apologizing, you'll never ever trust fate again so what does it matter if he apologizes? let's try not to flame plz.

Edited by Spartan_Warrior

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hmmm good point SW, what you did is worse than what Fate did. Not really fair on Fate to compare him to you.

 

 

i took it out of context, he was talking about bralex/val. post was edited accordingly.

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First of all I insisted on the apology for the main reason I am hoping if he (Fate) is truly sorry and has learned his lesson then we wont have to worry about another new player going the way of Fuze/str8jacket and many others. We need more players in Eternal Lnds and hopefuly we can try and get the ones who think they can do this kind of behavior to realize the community doesn't want to put up with it. I know i may be a little naieve but I have to have faith that we can build a bigger community without so many scammers and liars if we catch them early enough. Instead of drumming new players out.

 

And for god sakes, if you recruit new players.. tell them to carry a rosto if they insist on using gear which require one.

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You know Vanyel it's not your guild to make decisions. It's not your guild at all so your fucking opinion means moot to me. I don't care what you think.

 

You're so full of it in claiming I didn't ask questions first. I didn't ask for an OPINION of a person because the nicest person in the entire world, someone you trust more than anything can turn a leaf in a matter of a second. Look at spartan_warrior thread.

 

I asked for his side, he told me what he said, and I asked for some logs or something I could use to fight against their accusations and he had none. So I had to act based upon that.

 

So get off your freaking high horse. It's pathetic how you are trying to run my mind, my guild, and everything. I really don't care what YOU of all people have to say.

 

Chill out bubba!

Forum is : a public meeting or lecture involving audience discussion © Webster's Dictionary.

Everybody, including a nasty, irritating and hateful person like me can express their opinion. What's more! I don't need your consent to post it. Trying to hush people speaking not in your favour is pretty sad.

I do not insist you agree with my opinion. I would be surprised if you did, actually, since it was critical.

@_invoked

I have no idea who you are. I don't need this knowledge, either. So far, I know you as a person who insisted on PMing me for ages, regardless my requests to stop.

As for Vallath not producing any logs. Isn't it ironic? One of the meaning of the word 'produce' is to create or manufacture. Isn't it what has been done in the beginning of this rather sad story? Some logs, actually, have been produced... not to say forged.

 

 

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Uhoh.... **tsk tsk*

 

What a shame :(

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