New critical damage

[Entropy]

Here we discuss the new critical damage. Stuff like what breaks and things like that. If I hear the word "AFK" on this thread, or anything except the new critical chance itself, the person who says those words will be banned from the forums.

 

Anyway, as a consequence to the new criticals, the stuff will bream more often, this is obvious. Before you didn't get any damage while fighting monsters below your level, so you could use augmented armor forever. Now this is not the case. I am however willing to revise the critical chance of some monsters and make it lower if that's an issue, and maybe the breaking chance of some items.

 

I wanted to look at my break logs to see how much more items break, but unfortunately we had the acid rain which kind of made it very hard to compare, so I will have to wait a few days and see if the complaints are for real or just people OMFGing.

[FeLkkU]

Check the logs from before acid rain, I broke 3 meds, js and ti greaves in 120 yetis. A few friends also broke pretty much stuff before acid rain, I think. Weapons seem to be more likely to break as well, with the current breakrates mobs that crit often(e.g. yeti) seem to break a lot of armor.

[Entropy]

So before this change, how often did the yeti hit you? Like one in how many hits was actual damage? What about now? The JS breaking I think was a coincidence, I don't see how this change would affect that.

[FeLkkU]

So before this change, how often did the yeti hit you? Like one in how many hits was actual damage? What about now? The JS breaking I think was a coincidence, I don't see how this change would affect that.

Almost all the hits did actual damage before, i'd say maybe 80-90% since I only have 26 toughness, but I only degraded 2 tit shields, 1 greaves and a few steel shields and 1 stars 1 moon med in last 5k yeti, and now more than half of that in a bit over 100.

 

EDIT: Not sure if armor breaking is a coincidence too. I seemed to break an aug part in PvP about every 2 restores too(no CoL)

Edited November 26, 2010 by FeLkkU

[Entropy]

The reason for higher breaking rates (unless I have another bug in the code, but this is unlikely now) is because before, if you were fighting a lower level monster, the monster wouldn't hit you as often, so you got less damage to the armor. All this change does is for the criticals that did no damage before to do some damage now, which means a higher chance to break stuff. But if before all the hits did damage to you, this should not change a thing.

[FeLkkU]

The reason for higher breaking rates (unless I have another bug in the code, but this is unlikely now) is because before, if you were fighting a lower level monster, the monster wouldn't hit you as often, so you got less damage to the armor. All this change does is for the criticals that did no damage before to do some damage now, which means a higher chance to break stuff. But if before all the hits did damage to you, this should not change a thing.

Ok, I'll train more to see if it was just a coincidende or if something really changed. I agree my sample size is too small to say anything for sure.

[psihokiller4]

maybe breakings are because of critical hits don't know how code works but that's my guessing

 

I guess that if armor break you don't get damage but instead you break armor

I really don't know but if he says only that was made to change it means criticals are made to damage armor and stuff

 

and if criticals are more often much more often that means it's much more often to break something

 

let say:

 

 

[b]this numbers are not correct[/b]
before it was
1000 hits and 1 critical hit and this critical hit is 1/4 possibility to destroy armor

now we have
1000 hits and 11 critical hits and all this hits are too possibility to get 1/4 destroy armor

IF system works that way
[b]this numbers are not correct[/b]

 

I know how programming works and if he claims only criticals have changed I should have guess what's wrong

[korrode]

The reason for higher breaking rates (unless I have another bug in the code, but this is unlikely now) is because before, if you were fighting a lower level monster, the monster wouldn't hit you as often, so you got less damage to the armor. All this change does is for the criticals that did no damage before to do some damage now

Can I please clarify;

Are you saying that received critical-to-damage hits that used to do no damage are now doing damage, or are you saying received critical-to-hit hits that used to do no damage are now doing damage?

 

All this change does is for the criticals that did no damage before to do some damage now which means a higher chance to break stuff.

My understanding was that the hits that did no damage already did have a chance to break stuff. I thought that was what you implemented in April 2008 with this server update:

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=42438

 

Right after that update there was major complaints about the amount of stuff that was then breaking, especially from ogre through feros trainers who used good armor to train, which ofc makes sense, because all the normal hits and critical-to-hit's they were receiving but taking no damage from and having no chance to break armor, suddenly did have a chance to break armor.

 

9 days later you did another server update:

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=42700

You never disclosed to us exactly what you did, but the breaks seemed to reduce. As time went on we conclusively tested that increasing our toughness lowered our break chances, so it's assumed that you made toughness a modifier to reduce the chance of equipment breaking, but no one ever thought you completely reverted the previous change of no-damage hits now having a chance to break armor.

 

So can I ask, did you completely revert that change? and if so, have you now re-implemented it?

 

Maybe somehow armor break chances when one of your 'new special crits' occurs are not having the toughness modifier applied?

 

But if before all the hits did damage to you, this should not change a thing.

I have already had one breakage that would usually be a fairly rare occurrence on a creature that i did not ever absorb all it's normal (non-crit-dmg) hit damage, but not that rare, so could be coincidence.

 

I never absorb all non-critical hit damage from Trices, and never or almost never absorb all non-critical hit damage on Yeti either, so I will be a good test case, especially on Trice.

I will try to train them lots over the next few days, but i'd urge a double-checking of the new code just in case there is somehow a bug that's making break chances high on all or some received hits.

[Entropy]

Are you saying that received critical-to-damage hits that used to do no damage are now doing damage, or are you saying received critical-to-hit hits that used to do no damage are now doing damage?

Critical to damage hits.

 

My understanding was that the hits that did no damage already did have a chance to break stuff. I thought that was what you implemented in April 2008 with this server update:

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=42438

 

Right after that update there was major complaints about the amount of stuff that was then breaking, especially from ogre through feros trainers who used good armor to train, which ofc makes sense, because all the normal hits and critical-to-hit's they were receiving but taking no damage from and having no chance to break armor, suddenly did have a chance to break armor.

Yes, but that was watered down a lot, due to complaints.

 

9 days later you did another server update:

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=42700

You never disclosed to us exactly what you did, but the breaks seemed to reduce. As time went on we conclusively tested that increasing our toughness lowered our break chances, so it's assumed that you made toughness a modifier to reduce the chance of equipment breaking, but no one ever thought you completely reverted the previous change of no-damage hits now having a chance to break armor.

So can I ask, did you completely revert that change? and if so, have you now re-implemented it?

 

I watered it down by quite a bit (I never intended to revert the change, but it had to be adjusted).

 

 

Maybe somehow armor break chances when one of your 'new special crits' occurs are not having the toughness modifier applied?

The toughness itself is just a factor in breaks, not the whole story. The new special crits only disregard the defenses if the crit damage was 0 or negative. So if you were fighting much lower level monsters, or if you had really high attributes/skills for the monster you were fighting. If you fight normal monsters, which do damage anyway with their crits to damage, then there should be absolutely no chance.

 

But if before all the hits did damage to you, this should not change a thing.

I have already had one breakage that would usually be a fairly rare occurrence on a creature that i did not ever absorb all it's normal (non-crit-dmg) hit damage, but not that rare, so could be coincidence.

 

I never absorb all non-critical hit damage from Trices, and never or almost never absorb all non-critical hit damage on Yeti either, so I will be a good test case, especially on Trice.

I will try to train them lots over the next few days, but i'd urge a double-checking of the new code just in case there is somehow a bug that's making break chances high on all or some received hits.

 

We will do some testing on the test server to see if it's just coincidences or not.

[Dugur]

The reason for higher breaking rates (unless I have another bug in the code, but this is unlikely now) is because before, if you were fighting a lower level monster, the monster wouldn't hit you as often, so you got less damage to the armor. All this change does is for the criticals that did no damage before to do some damage now, which means a higher chance to break stuff. But if before all the hits did damage to you, this should not change a thing.

 

Before update I trained Funny_HuH on ogres without breaking a single item on them. Did a good while with hardly blocking 50% of hits and critical to damage hits came through with dmg. Fought a good while on clops too, and no losses.

Also trained Bellatrix, a char with whole intention of taking hits to get minimal def. Trained on clops a good while (up to att 89) and it still has only 57 def, which means getting hit on clops all the time and any critical dmg does more dmg (10+ max hits.) For some reason I never ever broke a thing on that char. And there were hours on clops without blocking them.

 

Now after update I whip out Funny_HuH to clops. The clops hit critical dmg anyway bigger than 0-8, so the amounts of getting hurt is actually the same as before. Equipment breaks fast. Both chars are comparable on this case for they both have maxed toughness, other just can't block.

 

So is it even possible that there was a bug with breaks before and now it just is closer to normal?

[amar]

Your Gatherer Medallion has been destroyed (before 2 hours )

 

 

Your Red Dragon Mail has been degraded to Damaged Red Dragon Mail (now 9:42pm )

[MephistopheLes]

ive had 6 items break in like under 1hour of training,, including red helm of life mana steel long fast regen cape steel shield and some other crappy stuff ..on orges...its rediculous..

 

~legacy

Edited November 26, 2010 by MephistopheLes

[psihokiller4]

I think something went very wrong

 

I attack 6 - 9 damage more than before on 40% chance to attack witch gives me more attack exp than I would ever wanted

 

usually I was fighting for 2 hours to kill med grag now I have to fight only 1 minute to kill high grag witch is very bad for me I cannot def train

 

this can make players that want only attack train in a very good position

 

 

 

usually I had 98% chance to hit oponent witch was good for me and less money but more separated exp

 

I wonder if I wanted to attack a dragon if I could hit him

 

 

I think now even those potions to boost attack or defence doesn't matter any more

and def god bless is for no use any more and attack god bless too

[ChevLow]

50 ogres today and broke fast regen cape an gatherer medallion...never broke anything that fast...could become very costly to train if this continues.

[Cyberwulf]

Hmm.. just 2 bones, 1 iron Battle hammer and a MoL breaks on only 30 feroses for Rocky daily, its nothing big but never break so many stuff on them before on only 30 feroses (a/d 120/118)

Edited November 26, 2010 by Cyberwulf

[Entropy]

Ok, we did some testings on the test server, and I adjusted the formula a bit, so the breaks should be more rare now. Will update the main server in a few hours.

[psihokiller4]

hmmm are you sure only armour break-ins are enough?

 

 

what about what I've been experiencing?

before I was killing a med grag 2 hours

this time I was killing a high grag 2 minutes and he died same attack lvl on both times but at high grag I had bad astro

 

 

 

how would even be possible to train mostly defence?

 

 

if not back to original code that was before

a proposal could be made from my side for a retreating (if you're retreating you never attack) not as before if you retreat you attack around 1/2 less

 

that's a big proposal from my side

[amar]

Your Pre-owned Serpent Sword has been destroyed

[Entropy]

Sun Nov 21 18:29:04 2010 Player BOO lost a Bronze Sword

Sun Nov 21 22:32:27 2010 Player BOO lost a Titanium Serpent Sword

Mon Nov 22 23:09:04 2010 Player BOO lost a Pre-owned Serpent Sword

Wed Nov 24 20:45:39 2010 Player BOO lost a Orc Slayer

 

So it's not like you were pure and pristine and never broke stuff before this update.

[hussam]

I damaged JS today in 65 trice.

Before this, I had ~2170 trice on counters without a weapon breakage.

Edited November 27, 2010 by hussam

[Dilly]

regardless of people not being happy with me posting this:

 

killed something like 160 feros on test wearing full titanium, having pretty much a constant 5-8 multi feros on me. My a/d is a bit high for feros, but my toughness is only 24. I swapped swords a bit, and did the last 100 even without wearing my NMT.

 

Nothing broke.

 

That said: I seem to break less stuff than others in game in general, so it would make sense that i notice less of a difference.

[Kaddy]

regardless of people not being happy with me posting this:

 

killed something like 160 feros on test wearing full titanium, having pretty much a constant 5-8 multi feros on me. My a/d is a bit high for feros, but my toughness is only 24. I swapped swords a bit, and did the last 100 even without wearing my NMT.

 

Nothing broke.

 

That said: I seem to break less stuff than others in game in general, so it would make sense that i notice less of a difference.

 

1. Your sample size is WAY TOO LOW.

2. The amount of gc you earn from training would be very less compared the cost of items broke + HE/SR usage.

3. We, figthers, wanna have our LIVING income with FIGHTING only, which is like harvers gets their income with harving, potters same alchers same etc...

 

-Kaddy

[Dilly]

I'm just reporting my finding, apologies for actually having to maintain a household and working a fulltime job, and not being able to stay up all night to share in your misery, kaddy.

 

For the record: this change will affect EVERYONE, not just the 'fulltime' fighters, although of course it does affect them more. And regardless of what you think: I do understand why you´re all so upset. But you're all up in the stands and threatening to go on strike, and to quit, when clearly Radu IS testing and tweaking, and actually involving you in it.

 

Instead of bashing me for just trying to help ( i can't help it that you don't like my findings), go have a go at the 100s of others that just come on channels to whine about their augs breaking. Go tell THEM to test and report their findings.

[Cara]

Degraded a CoL on the 2nd trice I tried. Broke a steel shield and a MoL on 136 yeties. This may still fall into the 'normal' category or 'bad luck' at best. Didn't break anything on test server yesterday, but then again, didn't have a chance to fight many yeties/trices there. Can't really compare these results with any previous stats since I haven't trained on these creatures before. Only ever broke a steel shield before doing daily yeti tho.

Edited November 27, 2010 by Cara

[CherUT]

I had not broke really anything training yeti/LO in quite sometime. Last night I broke a MoL, to me it seems a small loss for the gain of xp/gc I have recieved. Cant expect to train forever and not have any losses. I dont know if the MoL last night had anything to do with the new break rate or not. Could just be timing, either way I will continue to train, take the bad with the good I seen a few complaining about breaking gatherer meds, iirc Radu told us in the beginning they would not be good to use to train with, they were meant to be used for invasions. To me it seems like he fixed the rate to where is should have always been. I know it takes so long to pick up the bag while training we shouldnt have to be bothered with that, well thats the feeling I got some think. To me its not a big deal I keep inv window open hit get all and move on to the next. Anyway that is my thoughts