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Last thing I read in console was "You were booted by asgnnny," for the Onuris character. Please let me know when he will be unbanned because as I was booted the "No Spamming" rule was highlighted in red. Had I known spamming tradebots was against the rules I wouldn't have done so, I thought nothing of it and apologize for breaking the rule. I have no gripes, complaints, or excuses, merely a question as to when I will be unbanned please.

Thanks

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Last thing I read in console was "You were booted by asgnnny," for the Onuris character. Please let me know when he will be unbanned because as I was booted the "No Spamming" rule was highlighted in red. Had I known spamming tradebots was against the rules I wouldn't have done so, I thought nothing of it and apologize for breaking the rule. I have no gripes, complaints, or excuses, merely a question as to when I will be unbanned please.

Thanks

Can we make a poll? I'd vote never. Just saying.

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@Mods:

Also, on the slight chance you don't already know, I believe SW contributed to the items on LNX's guild storage bot on his old character, thus by taking those items on his new char, my understanding would be that he's committed illegal multi.

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hello :)

 

well sad to hear again that one player can harm the whole

community :(

 

quote : 'Had I known spamming tradebots was against the rules I wouldn't have done so, I thought nothing of it and apologize for breaking the rule.'

 

as far as i know its rule 5 and 19, not using bugs in el to get an advantage...

 

lots of ppl here are working hard to get gc together for themself or for the guilds,

 

and if someone just thinks, hey i get it for me for free, thats realy unfair :icon4:

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Last thing I read in console was "You were booted by asgnnny," for the Onuris character. Please let me know when he will be unbanned because as I was booted the "No Spamming" rule was highlighted in red. Had I known spamming tradebots was against the rules I wouldn't have done so, I thought nothing of it and apologize for breaking the rule. I have no gripes, complaints, or excuses, merely a question as to when I will be unbanned please.

Thanks

 

Yes, I locked your Onuris character. I don't think spamming bot owners and the server alike with (literally) thousands of rapid-fire PM's (often several per second) is in any way reasonable, nor within the confines of the spirit of the rules.

 

It is my understanding that the gc and/or items you obtained from the Adarah bot were obtained only through your having broken an in-game rule. As such, I am considering those proceeds as "fruit of the poison tree". In other words, those items are ill-gotten. I would consider unlocking Onuris once these illegally obtained goods are returned to that bot. To clarify, I consider the items obtained as a result of misplaced trust (i.e. those from the LNX bot) were obtained legally.

 

Were you warned to stop spamming the bots?

That's like asking Bernie Madoff if the SEC told him that securities fraud was illegal. This was obviously a deliberate attempt to breach a bug, possibly a server bug (not 100% certain as of the time of the lock), as it has been explained to me by a bot owner. While extra code could be added to double-check that the ID"s being sent from the server are not crossed at any point, this does should not exonerate anyone deliberately (paraphrasing from the rules:) exploiting and communicating the existence of any exploitable (one which grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) bug.

 

Assuming for a moment that the bug is in the bot code (mind you, Onuris is not currently locked for exploitation of a bug), that does not mitigate the fact that the server was deliberately spammed with thousands of messages over a relatively short period of time. I believe our friendly UObeyUOk bot was disabled for this same reason. If it's okay for one player to send thousands of messages in a short interval, is it not then acceptable for everyone else to be able to do the same? This situation is brought to the foreground as most bot owners have their bots set up to forward (via PM) the commands received by their bots. This feature is useful to catch abuse, as well as to provide real-time knowledge of which items are selling. For normal use, the end result is useful knowledge being passed to a bot owner about trades and commands sent to their bot. This is a valuable service, and I believe, is why I believe bot owners are willing to spend $100+ at the EL shop for their bots.

 

 

Following is what I propose as the most expeditious, reasonable resolution to the issues at hand:

1) A complete review of the events which transpired, to determine which, if any, goods were obtained illegally.

2) Verification that no illegal multiplay has occurred.

3) Verification that no (server) bugs were exploited.

4) The return of any illegally obtained goods.

5) Onuris would be unlocked (assuming 2) & 3) check out).

 

I am hopeful that this situation can be resolved quickly and fairly.

 

edit: thanks radu...

Edited by asgnny

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Spartan_warrior again...

 

He was given permission to receive his share of 100 hydro bars ONLY (that is what he asked for, his share of 100 finished hydro bars from the LNX project) from that one project onto his new character that would be empty and devoid of anything. Nothing else. No other supplies, nothing. Not the hundreds of thousands of fe's, fe ingredients, dragon armours of all varieties, , medallions, loads of gc, etc etc etc. Nor was he given permission to steal from bots.

He also was told not to get anything back from pyromaniac, or any manipulation of getting stuff from one character to another. That includes ALL characters, he is not to be moving stuff around using middlemen or bots. Especially stealing from bots to pay other people to stock him back up.

Not only that, but now we have the fleja new character renamed spartan_warrior on 10-10-2010 doing trades after like it was the old spartan_warrior character, which it is NOT allowed. He was explicitly forbidden to do this.

 

I see what looks like payment to certain people to restock him up on his alts and new supposedly-empty spartan_warrior character with all the goodies stolen from the bots.

There are also a few other people who's logs are going to be looked into with this mess, I am NOT happy. You know who you are.

What the heck is wrong with everybody?

 

As to the bot spamming and scamming, no no no no.

Seriously I am tired of trouble with spartan_warrior, he has been nothing but a drain on moderator time since he returned to the game. He knows better. It looks like he is going through the list of rules one by one and looking for anything NOT mentioned specifically so that he can try to make as much trouble as he can within the "letter of the law" as he sees it.

And every time it is "but I didn't know xyz SPECIFICALLY wasn't allowed....." ENOUGH ALREADY!

 

He is totally abusing what he thinks are loopholes or bad things left out of the rules, people like him are why we have rules like #25 and the "spirit of the rules" clause.

This is not like it's a nice guy who accidentally spammed a bot and got an advantage.

 

He also was grilling me on the specifics of rule 5 in GREAT detail so he could find ways around it. The spirit of the rules protects us from this. If you are looking for a way around the rule, you are looking to break it!

 

I see no reason to unlock or unban. EL doesn't need this garbage and as I've said before, I would rather keep the folks who aren't going out of their way to cheat, scam, steal, and otherwise hurt other people.

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Spartan_warrior again...

 

He was given permission to receive his share of 100 hydro bars ONLY (that is what he asked for, his share of 100 finished hydro bars from the LNX project) from that one project onto his new character that would be empty and devoid of anything. Nothing else. No other supplies, nothing. Not the hundreds of thousands of fe's, fe ingredients, dragon armours of all varieties, , medallions, loads of gc, etc etc etc. Nor was he given permission to steal from bots.

He also was told not to get anything back from pyromaniac, or any manipulation of getting stuff from one character to another. That includes ALL characters, he is not to be moving stuff around using middlemen or bots. Especially stealing from bots to pay other people to stock him back up.

Not only that, but now we have the fleja new character renamed spartan_warrior on 10-10-2010 doing trades after like it was the old spartan_warrior character, which it is NOT allowed. He was explicitly forbidden to do this.

 

I see what looks like payment to certain people to restock him up on his alts and new supposedly-empty spartan_warrior character with all the goodies stolen from the bots.

There are also a few other people who's logs are going to be looked into with this mess, I am NOT happy. You know who you are.

What the heck is wrong with everybody?

 

As to the bot spamming and scamming, no no no no.

Seriously I am tired of trouble with spartan_warrior, he has been nothing but a drain on moderator time since he returned to the game. He knows better. It looks like he is going through the list of rules one by one and looking for anything NOT mentioned specifically so that he can try to make as much trouble as he can within the "letter of the law" as he sees it.

And every time it is "but I didn't know xyz SPECIFICALLY wasn't allowed....." ENOUGH ALREADY!

 

He is totally abusing what he thinks are loopholes or bad things left out of the rules, people like him are why we have rules like #25 and the "spirit of the rules" clause.

This is not like it's a nice guy who accidentally spammed a bot and got an advantage.

 

He also was grilling me on the specifics of rule 5 in GREAT detail so he could find ways around it. The spirit of the rules protects us from this. If you are looking for a way around the rule, you are looking to break it!

 

I see no reason to unlock or unban. EL doesn't need this garbage and as I've said before, I would rather keep the folks who aren't going out of their way to cheat, scam, steal, and otherwise hurt other people.

 

Before I begin to ask for an appeal, I would like to petition this thread be discussed in a private medium so that I can disclose personal information. Is there anything that can be done for that.

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@Mods:

Also, on the slight chance you don't already know, I believe SW contributed to the items on LNX's guild storage bot on his old character, thus by taking those items on his new char, my understanding would be that he's committed illegal multi.

 

 

This was discussed via forum pm with Aislinn at the time I bought the new character.

Request:May I post the PM in it's entirety on this forum please.

 

 

hello :)

 

well sad to hear again that one player can harm the whole

community :(

 

quote : 'Had I known spamming tradebots was against the rules I wouldn't have done so, I thought nothing of it and apologize for breaking the rule.'

 

as far as i know its rule 5 and 19, not using bugs in el to get an advantage...

 

lots of ppl here are working hard to get gc together for themself or for the guilds,

 

and if someone just thinks, hey i get it for me for free, thats realy unfair :icon4:

 

 

You and the people before you who posted have no relevant information(with the exception of Korrode) I am not the first, nor the last to scam a bot.

 

Were you warned to stop spamming the bots?

 

 

Ok, I unbanned Onuris for now. I'll be looking tomorrow for possible rule 5 violations if what some people say is true.

 

 

 

No I was not warned to stop spamming the bots, however, I was in conversation with asgnny before he booted/banned me from the game. In addition to that, I was followed in demi-god mode by him whenever I made a mapchange, or moved out of his sight in game. I am not crying or whining, merely recanting the information.

Request:Do I have permission to repost these PMs here?

 

 

 

Last thing I read in console was "You were booted by asgnnny," for the Onuris character. Please let me know when he will be unbanned because as I was booted the "No Spamming" rule was highlighted in red. Had I known spamming tradebots was against the rules I wouldn't have done so, I thought nothing of it and apologize for breaking the rule. I have no gripes, complaints, or excuses, merely a question as to when I will be unbanned please.

Thanks

 

Yes, I locked your Onuris character. I don't think spamming bot owners and the server alike with (literally) thousands of rapid-fire PM's (often several per second) is in any way reasonable, nor within the confines of the spirit of the rules.

 

It is my understanding that the gc and/or items you obtained from the Adarah bot were obtained only through your having broken an in-game rule. As such, I am considering those proceeds as "fruit of the poison tree". In other words, those items are ill-gotten. I would consider unlocking Onuris once these illegally obtained goods are returned to that bot. To clarify, I consider the items obtained as a result of misplaced trust (i.e. those from the LNX bot) were obtained legally.

 

Were you warned to stop spamming the bots?

That's like asking Bernie Madoff if the SEC told him that securities fraud was illegal. This was obviously a deliberate attempt to breach a bug, possibly a server bug (not 100% certain as of the time of the lock), as it has been explained to me by a bot owner. While extra code could be added to double-check that the ID"s being sent from the server are not crossed at any point, this does should not exonerate anyone deliberately (paraphrasing from the rules:) exploiting and communicating the existence of any exploitable (one which grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) bug.

 

Assuming for a moment that the bug is in the bot code (mind you, Onuris is not currently locked for exploitation of a bug), that does not mitigate the fact that the server was deliberately spammed with thousands of messages over a relatively short period of time. I believe our friendly UObeyUOk bot was disabled for this same reason. If it's okay for one player to send thousands of messages in a short interval, is it not then acceptable for everyone else to be able to do the same? This situation is brought to the foreground as most bot owners have their bots set up to forward (via PM) the commands received by their bots. This feature is useful to catch abuse, as well as to provide real-time knowledge of which items are selling. For normal use, the end result is useful knowledge being passed to a bot owner about trades and commands sent to their bot. This is a valuable service, and I believe, is why I believe bot owners are willing to spend $100+ at the EL shop for their bots.

 

 

Following is what I propose as the most expeditious, reasonable resolution to the issues at hand:

1) A complete review of the events which transpired, to determine which, if any, goods were obtained illegally.

2) Verification that no illegal multiplay has occurred.

3) Verification that no (server) bugs were exploited.

4) The return of any illegally obtained goods.

5) Onuris would be unlocked (assuming 2) & 3) check out).

 

I am hopeful that this situation can be resolved quickly and fairly.

 

edit: thanks radu...

 

 

At the time I pm'd you, and I am paraphrasing, you said "I'd be the first to know if I broke a rule," yet I was not notified by you what rule I specifically broke to receive a ban/boot until radu decided to intervene. Along with that, I told you that radu knew how I manipulated the bot code, and I requested you talk to him. You took it upon yourself to tell me you'd talk to him in your own time, and so your sarcastic "thanks radu..." is ironic.

 

Part 1:

 

 

Spartan_warrior again...

 

He was given permission to receive his share of 100 hydro bars ONLY (that is what he asked for, his share of 100 finished hydro bars from the LNX project) from that one project onto his new character that would be empty and devoid of anything. Nothing else. No other supplies, nothing. Not the hundreds of thousands of fe's, fe ingredients, dragon armours of all varieties, , medallions, loads of gc, etc etc etc. Nor was he given permission to steal from bots.

 

I was given permission to rejoin in the project that is correct, however, I could have done the same thing with my original character, could have taken the same FEs, bars, harvestables, so having the new character did not change my advantages/priveledges/opportunities in the bot/guild/project.

Where did you see dragon armours and medallions being taken from trades?? If you're recalling Quesar's post you are mistaken as those things were borrowed for an instance and then returned the same day.

 

 

 

He also was told not to get anything back from pyromaniac, or any manipulation of getting stuff from one character to another. That includes ALL characters, he is not to be moving stuff around using middlemen or bots. Especially stealing from bots to pay other people to stock him back up.

Not only that, but now we have the fleja new character renamed spartan_warrior on 10-10-2010 doing trades after like it was the old spartan_warrior character, which it is NOT allowed. He was explicitly forbidden to do this.

 

 

If given permission to repost your forum PM, I would like to make clear that your statement specified something very specific. You said that my old storage must not come back to me, (paraphrasing). That sto was liquidated on the market, and the gc value estimated at 750kgc was sold to a third party. I do not have the right to disclose who that was sold to, but if you feel you must know you could check the logs, ask me specifically, or forum pm me.

 

 

I see what looks like payment to certain people to restock him up on his alts and new supposedly-empty spartan_warrior character with all the goodies stolen from the bots.

There are also a few other people who's logs are going to be looked into with this mess, I am NOT happy. You know who you are.

What the heck is wrong with everybody?

 

Which alts are "stocked up?" What were they "stocked up" with? And who did it come from? AFAIK all my alts are sto-less noobs with harvest 20 to join guilds. There is no "few other people" either, and again I would like to kindly request that this thread somehow be made specific so that I may disclose personal financial information and names that should remain anonymous.

 

As to the bot spamming and scamming, no no no no.

Seriously I am tired of trouble with spartan_warrior, he has been nothing but a drain on moderator time since he returned to the game. He knows better. It looks like he is going through the list of rules one by one and looking for anything NOT mentioned specifically so that he can try to make as much trouble as he can within the "letter of the law" as he sees it.

And every time it is "but I didn't know xyz SPECIFICALLY wasn't allowed....." ENOUGH ALREADY!

 

If I am allowed to repost my side of a forum PM, I will do so now.

 

I didn't want to break the rules then come talk to you, which is why I wanted to take the time to PM you first, I also understand that you're having trouble with your internet connection and I won't be bothering you with multiple PMs.

 

Does this look like a question one would ask who's trying to circumvent the rules? Just because you may think I know better, means nothing. Is it not enough to apply logic in my thoughts when we both have different opinions of what is Spamming. Spamming is an annoyance tactic used to disturb/irk someone, basically just really piss them off. And I will bring this up again when I address another part of your quote.

 

Part 2:

 

He is totally abusing what he thinks are loopholes or bad things left out of the rules, people like him are why we have rules like #25 and the "spirit of the rules" clause.

This is not like it's a nice guy who accidentally spammed a bot and got an advantage.

 

He also was grilling me on the specifics of rule 5 in GREAT detail so he could find ways around it. The spirit of the rules protects us from this. If you are looking for a way around the rule, you are looking to break it!

 

I see no reason to unlock or unban. EL doesn't need this garbage and as I've said before, I would rather keep the folks who aren't going out of their way to cheat, scam, steal, and otherwise hurt other people.

 

 

Let's go back to the forum PM please, my side of course, granted if I'm allowed to post it.

 

Now, since I am buying a new character, and would like to receive the 100 hydros at the end of the project. What do I need to do to make sure that I can do that? Can I destroy my contributions/effort by referring to logs that are kept, or maybe you have a better suggestion? Personally, all I did was harvest maybe 10k coal or so for bagmixers in the mine, took FE ings and gave them to friends to mix so I didn't even mix them myself, so not much time was taken from myself, nor gc.

 

 

The prior forum pm quote was the only "grilling" I did, and all I did was ask the same question twice, just wording it differently. Troublemaking was NOT my intention when I "wasted moderators time." The only thing that was done to waste moderator time was when I was being immature with the resale of a perk removal stone attempting to maximize my profits. When I found corpus had 5 hp, and couldnt kill him with a noob char, I found it very annoying that it was considered "spying" that I took my main char there after that. It really is common knowledge corpus has 5 hp, and either way corpus is a bot with no drops. I am sure there was one or two other things I did, and I would be more than happy to address them should you like to bring them up.

 

Granted I did send you another PM after your reply, but you obviously didn't see that it was worth replying to, so I feel it's not worth mentioning.

 

 

 

At the time of writing, it has been 50 minutes since my request to appeal this ban in a private medium, I posted 2 minutes after Aislinn so I thought she could throw in a quick yes or no before she left. So to the best of my ability I will discuss any matters regarding any of my trades with you here, and forum pm. I have paypal screenshots/logs, depending on how you prefer them. I have other requests aswell...

 

 

 

With proper time and cool collected conversation I will attempt to show how the old SW character was sold, and his posessions were sold into the EL market for gc. That gc was then sold to a third party whom I disclosed in PM to a mod, and shared with you. I would like to also ask that the fact that I "wasted moderators time ever since I came back" be called with specific situations, dates, and the amount of times they occurred. If there is anything else the moderation team would like to, or could suggest, I would appreciate it. Hopefully this matter will be resolved swiftly.

 

 

I have no problems/complaints with the EL Moderation staff, the time and hours they put in, or the game and it's community. I respect everything you do, and would like to motion for a more in depth look at the logs.

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So the short version of your quoting mess is:

1. You feel you are within your gaming rights to massively spam and scam multiple bots, taking advantage of bad coding either within the bot itself or the server?

2. You feel you are within your gaming rights to find ways around the intent of each rule you come across?

 

The intents of the rules are clear. Asking 20 questions looking for specific answers while leaving other pertinent facts out of the equation you present, does not indicate to ME a desire to abide by the spirit and intent of the rules.

 

Let me make it clear: You are not allowed any version of equivilent value coming back into the new account or alts, whether your exact items were sold for gc and you take the gc back, or you bought new things with the same money, or whether you got the same stuff but from a third party you paid off some other way...that is EXACTLY the looking for a loophole I am talking about. You were not allowed to get stuff back, not the same items, or duplicate items, or different items same value bought with those proceeds, or any other manipulation to cover it. Read rule 5. No benefit one character to another, whether directly or indirectly No middlemen of ANY sort. How is that not clear? Why am I obligated to talk to some players like they are in kindergarten?

 

[Edit] Also for record, since you want all the logs looked at more closely: Even playing devil's advocate and saying "ok, you took from the LNX bot the hydro bars you were owed.." You still took massive amounts of ingredients that you did have on your other character that you gave to others to mix for you, which was NOT what I agreed for you to get back. I gave you an inch and you took 100 miles and then some. [/edit]

 

Am I correct in my assumption that you wish a private conversation (wonder who broke your forum pm) so you can incriminate other people?

 

[Edit2: If you want to gather fistfuls of logs and receipts and forum pm's and other "proof" of how you made a convoluted trail of money and items and gc and wave it around in Radu's face, feel free. If he is willing to waste his time looking at all that, great for you. I have NO interest in it because all you have is proof of how you tried to manipulate the system to get around the rules we have. You can call it what you want, but that is what you tried to do. I have better things to spend my time with, than finding a reason to keep you here to do more of the same. In my view, the situation already has been resolved. Both swiftly and satisfactorily. [/edit]

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Yes, I locked your Onuris character. I don't think spamming bot owners and the server alike with (literally) thousands of rapid-fire PM's (often several per second) is in any way reasonable, nor within the confines of the spirit of the rules.

 

Can I ask if this is accurate? It's just that I can only send 1 PM/#GM or line of chat per second, even if I use <ctrl> + <up arrows key> AFAIK this is hard coded into the client or is there a flag that can be set in the options?

 

I only ask as a matter of personal interest.

 

Mods if this is inappropriate in this thread please delete my post.

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Yes, I locked your Onuris character. I don't think spamming bot owners and the server alike with (literally) thousands of rapid-fire PM's (often several per second) is in any way reasonable, nor within the confines of the spirit of the rules.

 

Can I ask if this is accurate? It's just that I can only send 1 PM/#GM or line of chat per second, even if I use <ctrl> + <up arrows key> AFAIK this is hard coded into the client or is there a flag that can be set in the options?

 

I only ask as a matter of personal interest.

 

Mods if this is inappropriate in this thread please delete my post.

 

I am writing and proofing a reply for aislinn but for now can confirm that afaik you can't spam gm/channel posts/local faster than once a second. With pm there is an exception.

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Can I ask if this is accurate? It's just that I can only send 1 PM/#GM or line of chat per second, even if I use <ctrl> + <up arrows key> AFAIK this is hard coded into the client or is there a flag that can be set in the options?

 

I only ask as a matter of personal interest.

 

Mods if this is inappropriate in this thread please delete my post.

 

The server will reject messages that come too fast, but I think that only applies in local chat, not PMs. Either way, this is not my definition of spam, since it is the bot owner fault that they set the bot to PM them every single action done or received by the bot.

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Ok, so after wasting my time, Aislinn's time and the LNX guild time, here is the definite proof of multi:

 

SW changed his char on about 10/10/10. He renamed the old SW char to another char, and the Fleja char to SW. So before 10/10/10 SW char is a DIFFERENT char than after that date.

 

So here is the storage log for the LNX bot that was abused:

 

OLD SPARTAN_WARRIOR

917395 Steel Two Edged Sword 333 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 07/30/10 02:37 AM received from (to sto)

917394 Fire Essence 45000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 07/30/10 02:39 AM received from (to sto)

917393 Coal 15000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 07/30/10 02:39 AM received from (to sto)

916261 Red Rose 9000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 07/30/10 02:39 AM gave from sto

916260 Red Snapdragons 5000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 07/30/10 02:39 AM gave from sto

916259 Sulfur 15000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 07/30/10 02:39 AM gave from sto

915961 Gold Coins 50 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 07/30/10 02:39 AM gave from sto

915960 Gold Coins 50 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/09/10 05:09 AM received from (to sto)

915755 Sulfur 161 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/09/10 05:09 AM received from (to sto)

915754 Fire Essence 6088 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/09/10 05:09 AM received from (to sto)

914353 Red Rose 10000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/09/10 05:09 AM gave from sto

914352 Sulfur 10000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/09/10 05:09 AM gave from sto

914351 Cooked Meat 400 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/09/10 07:27 AM gave from sto

914350 Red Snapdragons 10000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/10/10 12:45 AM gave from sto

913348 Fire Essence 10000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/10/10 12:45 AM received from (to sto)

913279 Fire Essence 4000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/10/10 12:45 AM received from (to sto)

913278 Cooked Meat 400 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/10/10 12:45 AM gave from sto

913277 Red Rose 10000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/12/10 07:24 PM gave from sto

913276 Red Snapdragons 10000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/12/10 07:24 PM gave from sto

913275 Sulfur 10000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/12/10 07:24 PM gave from sto

912653 Fire Essence 4103 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/12/10 07:24 PM received from (to sto)

910968 Cooked Meat 500 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/12/10 07:24 PM gave from sto

910245 Sulfur 20000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/12/10 07:25 PM gave from sto

910244 Red Snapdragons 20000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/12/10 07:55 PM gave from sto

910243 Red Rose 20000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/12/10 07:55 PM gave from sto

910242 Steel Bar 675 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/12/10 07:55 PM received from (to sto)

910241 Fire Essence 2966 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/12/10 07:55 PM received from (to sto)

910240 Coal 2339 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/14/10 07:43 PM received from (to sto)

910137 Fire Essence 45000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/14/10 07:43 PM gave from sto

910135 Coal 15000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/14/10 07:43 PM gave from sto

910106 Red Rose 10024 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/15/10 04:13 PM received from (to sto)

910105 Red Snapdragons 14212 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/15/10 11:07 PM received from (to sto)

910104 Fire Essence 5000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/20/10 02:47 AM gave from sto

910103 Coal 5000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/20/10 02:47 AM gave from sto

910102 Iron Ore 5000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/20/10 02:47 AM gave from sto

909548 Sulfur 5000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/20/10 02:47 AM received from (to sto)

908577 Red Rose 30215 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/20/10 05:22 PM received from (to sto)

908576 Red Snapdragons 27476 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/20/10 05:22 PM received from (to sto)

908575 Sulfur 11352 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/20/10 05:22 PM received from (to sto)

907413 Toadstool 11 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/20/10 05:22 PM received from (to sto)

907412 Cooked Meat 118 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 08/26/10 02:46 PM received from (to sto)

907411 Red Rose 3152 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 09/03/10 04:56 PM received from (to sto)

907410 Red Snapdragons 7039 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 09/09/10 07:37 PM received from (to sto)

 

NEW SPARTAN_WARRIOR

907409 Sulfur 3411 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 10/25/10 10:54 PM received from (to sto)

907408 Fire Essence 2846 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 10/25/10 10:54 PM received from (to sto)

907406 Sulfur 15000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 10/25/10 10:54 PM gave from sto

907405 Red Snapdragons 15000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 10/25/10 10:54 PM gave from sto

907403 Red Rose 15000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 10/25/10 10:54 PM gave from sto

907402 Fire Essence 15000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 10/25/10 10:54 PM received from (to sto)

907097 Sulfur 6500 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 10/25/10 10:54 PM received from (to sto)

906662 Fire Essence 10000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 10/25/10 10:54 PM received from (to sto)

904890 Sulfur 6660 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 10/25/10 10:54 PM received from (to sto)

903724 Fire Essence 5000 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 10/25/10 10:54 PM received from (to sto)

903712 Sulfur 9380 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 10/25/10 10:54 PM received from (to sto)

903639 Cooked Meat 500 0 0 Spartan_Warrior 10/25/10 11:07 PM gave from sto

 

So as you can clearly see, he gave stuff to the bot on his old char, and took it (by scamming the bot) with his new char. This is clear multi, it's not "the spirit of rules" and shit. It's direct, in your face multi.

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I would have never even traded with the bot had I not been given specific permission from Aislinn to partake inthe project. I could have taken everything in that bot with the old SW, and with the new SW. Is that not the same?

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Oh no, you were given specific permission on October 9 to receive your hydro bars ONLY.

You told me then on October 9 that your storage was already empty, you bought a new character, and had already given the bot your contributions which included but was not limited to, 10k+ coal, FE's (massive amounts), and FE ingredients (massive amounts).

 

No, the old SW and new SW were two totally different characters. How is that the same?

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I am writing and proofing a reply for aislinn but for now can confirm that afaik you can't spam gm/channel posts/local faster than once a second. With pm there is an exception.

We did some test yesterday, in various conditions of #ping; you can manually send 2/3 PMs per second (via Ctrl-Up), with some dedication this could be maybe 4/sec. Anything beyond that would lead to a serious suspicion of macroing. In the case at hand, all evidence points to the 'spamming' being done manually (so, no macroing).

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So the short version of your quoting mess is:

1. You feel you are within your gaming rights to massively spam and scam multiple bots, taking advantage of bad coding either within the bot itself or the server?

2. You feel you are within your gaming rights to find ways around the intent of each rule you come across?

 

The intents of the rules are clear. Asking 20 questions looking for specific answers while leaving other pertinent facts out of the equation you present, does not indicate to ME a desire to abide by the spirit and intent of the rules.

 

Let me make it clear: You are not allowed any version of equivilent value coming back into the new account or alts, whether your exact items were sold for gc and you take the gc back, or you bought new things with the same money, or whether you got the same stuff but from a third party you paid off some other way...that is EXACTLY the looking for a loophole I am talking about. You were not allowed to get stuff back, not the same items, or duplicate items, or different items same value bought with those proceeds, or any other manipulation to cover it. Read rule 5. No benefit one character to another, whether directly or indirectly No middlemen of ANY sort. How is that not clear? Why am I obligated to talk to some players like they are in kindergarten?

 

[Edit] Also for record, since you want all the logs looked at more closely: Even playing devil's advocate and saying "ok, you took from the LNX bot the hydro bars you were owed.." You still took massive amounts of ingredients that you did have on your other character that you gave to others to mix for you, which was NOT what I agreed for you to get back. I gave you an inch and you took 100 miles and then some. [/edit]

 

Am I correct in my assumption that you wish a private conversation (wonder who broke your forum pm) so you can incriminate other people?

 

[Edit2: If you want to gather fistfuls of logs and receipts and forum pm's and other "proof" of how you made a convoluted trail of money and items and gc and wave it around in Radu's face, feel free. If he is willing to waste his time looking at all that, great for you. I have NO interest in it because all you have is proof of how you tried to manipulate the system to get around the rules we have. You can call it what you want, but that is what you tried to do. I have better things to spend my time with, than finding a reason to keep you here to do more of the same. In my view, the situation already has been resolved. Both swiftly and satisfactorily. [/edit]

 

please see ps

 

 

Ok, so after wasting my time, Aislinn's time and the LNX guild time, here is the definite proof of multi:

 

SW changed his char on about 10/10/10. He renamed the old SW char to another char, and the Fleja char to SW. So before 10/10/10 SW char is a DIFFERENT char than after that date.

 

(omitted logs for length)

 

So as you can clearly see, he gave stuff to the bot on his old char, and took it (by scamming the bot) with his new char. This is clear multi, it's not "the spirit of rules" and shit. It's direct, in your face multi.

 

 

 

 

So in the end I know I've pissed off many people, and many people would like to never see me return to this wonderful game. But if I may suggest a punishment that is not easy, or in my favor, I would like to return to the game one day. This is my peace offering of sorts, and perhaps a way of righting the multiplay rule I broke.

 

I would be willing to serve a ban period of 90 days, with an IP ban lifted so I may enter game for the following reason. I would commit to serving 250 hours minimum of newbie help service on help channels and Isla Prima, and if I predict correctly, would only take me maybe 4 months. At the end of the 250 hours served helping on Isla Prima, there could be a review period, where the hours served of community service would be double checked. At this point, theoretically speaking, the bans would be lifted, and alts restriction clause (no alts rule) would become active with the character (Onuris). However, with the unbanning of the character there would be one very specific clause, and that would be to recompensate the LNX guild bot, via a third party, with all items that were multiplayed with, with the exception of the items taken during scam. So any items that were traded before scam would be returned. It could be easily argued that, that is not enough, so inn addition to that I would cover compensatory damages in the form of doubling every item from before scam within 4 months. These damages would be repayed within 6 months, or IP Ban would be reactivated. Is this a satisfactory punishment?

 

 

 

 

 

 

ps: Aislinn,

I spent the whole day reading your post, and deciding what I wanted to say to each one of your remarks regarding my ban and my actions. But posting what I wrote down on 2 pieces of paper would do nothing more than cause arguments and seem like excuses. With all due respect, my opinion is you're looking at my case in a very biased, opinionated form, and some of the comments might have been unnecessary from an objective point of view. However, I do not wish to cause such harm with my diction and sarcasm so I will refrain from addressing your post.

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With all due respect to the forum rules I feel the need to post a reply on this thread because I feel that the information I am going to give is valid to the issue at hand.

 

If someone like SW went on the way he did fooling people for so long then ripping them off to turn a profit, I feel as if his plea to get back into the game at a later time would result in the same type of issue. If allowed to come back in he might just do what he said to make himself appear as a changed person only to do the same exact thing to some other guild down the road and turn a profit irl at the expense of others. Even though knowing it would result in a perma ban, he would still be building his ego by pulling off another scam.

 

I feel this information is valid because I would really hate for anyone to have to go through what LNX did because this guy likes to try and charm people with the things he says. If this information isn't considered valid to the moderating team then I apologize now for posting here.

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With all due respect to the forum rules I feel the need to post a reply on this thread because I feel that the information I am going to give is valid to the issue at hand.

 

If someone like SW went on the way he did fooling people for so long then ripping them off to turn a profit, I feel as if his plea to get back into the game at a later time would result in the same type of issue. If allowed to come back in he might just do what he said to make himself appear as a changed person only to do the same exact thing to some other guild down the road and turn a profit irl at the expense of others. Even though knowing it would result in a perma ban, he would still be building his ego by pulling off another scam.

 

I feel this information is valid because I would really hate for anyone to have to go through what LNX did because this guy likes to try and charm people with the things he says. If this information isn't considered valid to the moderating team then I apologize now for posting here.

Honestly I don't see any information in that, although of course I understand your feelings.

While waiting for a forum admin to wake up and clean this thread, it might be worth restating that:

  1. abusing the trust of the good guys at LNX is not a violation of the game rules, and so no punishment goes with it. Of course, players are free to shun off and obstracize the culprit at will;
  2. scamming a bot into giving incorrect change is not a violation of the game rules, as long as the bug is in the bot, and not in the server. There is still some discussion ongoing at a technical level, but so far no punishment was attribuited for that.

The reason why Spartan_Warrior is currently banned is a very classic form of illegal multiplaying (Rule 5), not the scamming. Personally, I think all he is proposing above verges on a form of "cruel and inusual punishment", since other cases of illegal multiplaying are normally dealt with by ban period+possible storage wipe. But the detailed judgement on the case lies with the moderator that handled it, namely Aislinn.

 

If my assessment is incorrect, I apologize for the confusion and trust I will be corrected soon.

Edited by Usl

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