Eternal-Lands first look

[Entropy]

Torr, I will give you one last warning. If you keep trolling on our forums, you will be banned.

If you don't like the game, admins, our attitude, etc. then stop playing and stop posting here. If you love the mmohut guy, go marry him. KK?

[Schmurk]

For those of you who have posted ranting, obviously without reading the thread with any degree of comprehension, the complaint was not that the first impressionist made a video that was supposed to show EL from a newbie's perspective. The complaint is that he was NOT the average newbie. The average newbie is not ignoring EVERYTHING in his path so he can babble "verbal diarrhea" to impress whoever he thinks he's impressing.

If he had legitimate grievances, you all would have a leg to stand on. Almost every complaint he had was about something that was not even factual.

Again...as a person in the position this guy is claiming to be, an authority on online games, he owes it to the game, to the people going to his site, and to himself to do a little bit of research and homework before publicly presenting as FACT complaints that are not real.

 

No offense but how do you know that he doesn't represent the average newbie? It is not because you would not have the same view as him on a new game that he's unique in his kind. I don't know which proportion of the MMOs players has the same way of thinking than him but I bet it's a huge part. So even if his opinion is not the best that we can expect, it still has to be considered because for a new player, if the few minutes or hours don't appeal him, it greatly reduces the chances to see him play the game.

 

Now, I'm not taking defense of the guy. I also think it's a moron. I'm just saying that if it was my game, I would take into consideration his criticism because I would tell me that if this guy thinks that, he's probably not the only one...

 

But anyway, like you also said, at the end it's up to Radu to decide how his game should look like.

[Entropy]

No offense but how do you know that he doesn't represent the average newbie? It is not because you would not have the same view as him on a new game that he's unique in his kind. I don't know which proportion of the MMOs players has the same way of thinking than him but I bet it's a huge part. So even if his opinion is not the best that we can expect, it still has to be considered because for a new player, if the few minutes or hours don't appeal him, it greatly reduces the chances to see him play the game.

 

Oh, I am pretty sure that a lot of newbies act like him, especially the younger generation. But in US we have a saying: You can lead a horse to water, but can't make him drink it.

We have a pretty nice tutorial, we have a popup message telling the player to do the tutorial, and the Tutorial NPC is named like that so people can clearly tell what that NPC does. I can't force people to do the tutorial, and even if I could I wouldn't want to anyway. If someone wants to actually try the game, then they would do the tutorial.

 

Regarding the interface, it will take some time to get used to it, but I don't think it looks bad because of the lines. Did you play Fallout 3?

 

Now, I'm not taking defense of the guy. I also think it's a moron. I'm just saying that if it was my game, I would take into consideration his criticism because I would tell me that if this guy thinks that, he's probably not the only one...

But do we want morons in the game?

[Aislinn]

Sure many newbies have a similar approach.

BUT:

They aren't running a mmo appraisal site either and posting garbage as fact.

 

It just seems to me he would be better served to say something like "I can't find any quests, I will have to look later to see where they are hiding" rather than just assume because he couldn't find them, we have none then state that as fact. If he is the pr0 he claims, he's got to figure it would be very unlikely there aren't any.

 

Again, the complaint is NOT the concept of the video, but the execution. It was irresponsible and ignorant considering his goal and "position".

 

And yes I have gone visiting as a newbie to other games. It IS overwhelming but I just can't see that unless the game is as basic as Pong, that one can expect to get by without reading. And in those games as well as EL, there is no way that everything will be able to be instantly seen on the screen. There is just too much info, too much to do. Reading required.

[Uncertain]

I must admit.. I skimmed over idk how much of this thread. But did read a little here and there. Watched the video. Theres a few things I agree with, and a few things I disagree with.

 

I understand that it was a "first attempt at checking out a new game to that individual" in this case that game was EL. I dislike reading, though I tend to write novels? Confusing, anyways.. I would be classified as a idiot or a moron or a fukwit or any other name I suppose lolz. But to me, a "?" over the tuterial npc would be slightly tacky.. Maybe use some eye candy and let few "?" marks revolve around that particular npc's feet or head or w/e instead? (Not suggesting all, or many, just that particular npc.) Just a idea. Would not only help new players see it. But also intise some curiousiness about it,.. But also if in case they missed any written dialog. Cuz lets face it, while a game is loading what do you do? Get your drink, grab a beer, go get your smokes, pack a bowl, smack your kid, what? You prepare to begin to play, so that when you sit down, you dont have to get up for at least a little while. Some may read, some others like myself may not. If I say anything else, a long while back I can admit I checked out this game in the exact same manner. ""Bypass, click here, click there, i c u but i not gonna talk to u yet, click here, click there, etc."" However, thanks to people I knew before even downloading to begin playing, that were able to help me. (not that there was nearly as many skills as now back then.) Is probally one of the biggest reasons it attracted my attention. (well on and off over the years)

 

As for aquiring new players. I'm not exactly sure why some dont stay. I do think even with the tuturial npc in place. Some tend to bypass it. Some dont know right away that @ will auto force u to type into newbie channel (given they also know to tap the space bar after the "@"). Cuz iirc that channel is auto on when u first start? So if you bypass that particular npc, have no clue "@ help me plz I R confused". I think also iirc theres also little help messages that appear here and there till your level etc. But being at the top, sometimes the player may get more focused on the little brown rabbit they're trying to chase after instead of reading? I think if theres a will, theres a way. Just unsure how to exactly include that "way".

 

I think the community of EL is also a partial cause to a slight extent to the focus of why some leave and EL not grow at a faster rate in population. I think some bitch, gripe, w/e you wanna call it to much. I think bag jumpers, or serpeRs or etc should be welcomed. They not only inspire others to grind, but they also promote "a something for you to talk about". If along same lines, I can be called a hypercrit, cuz well I dont think people should scam other people characters for example. That to me is entirely different. However, I think the community to a slight extent, itself should be a tad nicer to those "labeled" the bad guys/girls.. If everyone is so holy rolling and honorable. Who is left to chase after? Who is left to help you become motivated or inspired to gain levels? I think if the person is new, regardless of what role that individual wishes to play. That individual should be more tolerated to a extent.

 

Everyone here has learned this game from this or that person or by doing this or that over time. Well maybe everyone but 2 people lolz. Regardless, if there was a way to ensure complete niceness to the new player. I think that itself would help. So I must also state that bringing a newb island into play where that individual plays with some nice gear and attri's could be a good thing. On that island I think regular channels should not exsist. No market, no nothing but newb channel, or for a better term "beginner channel". Why not cap them out? Along with that could also be things like pop up window or fonts that say "hurry click this to do that". And thus that new player does something great. This in my mind would help the individual greatly understand how to do etc. I myself dont read because that is not how I learn. I learn by doing, maybe theres a chance their is many others like myself? The completion of it could be "a dream". And a awaking to IP as currently a new player arrives in IP. EL does not have a "ending" persay.. So why not have the dream be the ending?

 

Before I get ransacked by some pR0 flamers.. I must also admit, over the years, the mods and dev's have helped me greatly. So have a few players I didn't know from anywhere else other then from here. Some people are nice, some nicer then others, and some well nevermind but still, those in authority positions are over all helpful, and so are a limited handfull of players. Though if one doesnt know of #helpme or "@ i R confused" or anything else for that matter. How is one to achieve the answer to what the question is?

 

All in all, this is just another game. In all honesty, I would like to see the day where the avg player base is 1,500+ players on 24/7 (not including bots, alts, etc).. Once we aquire that goal, maybe we can shoot for a larger one.

[Sabbath]

I can't believe people are defending this idiot, you can see quite clearly from radu's email conversation with him he's an arrogant dumbass with the comprehension skills of Kindergartner.

*3. I am not sure how you assign scores for Playerbase, and how you quantify the low/medium/high/very high scores, but we have an average of 280 players playing at once (over 400 in the afternoon, 160 or so at night), and a total of over 1K active players that play every week. Of course, compared to really big games such as WoW this is insignificant, but compared to other indie MMOs I think it would be about medium. You can check for yourself, in real time here: http://game.eternal-lands.com/online_players.htm

4. I don't understand how our game graphics is rated as "Low" when "other games with similar or worse graphics, such as Perfect World, Florensia and Ragnarok Online"are rated as High. "Based on the screenshots, Florensia and Ragnarok Online look clearly inferior to Eternal Lands."

And his reply:

Based on your *third statement alone, I can safely conclude you are delusional. I can't converse with someone who thinks "Eternal Lands has better graphics than Perfect World."

As you can see, radu didn't state that EL had better graphics than Perfect World and furthermore radu's graphic points were in the fourth statement.

 

inb4 "Sucking up to mods/devs etc", I log into EL once every 3-4 months and I'm more than sure the mods/devs know exactly where I stand on EL gameplay and progression.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Sabbath

[Goot]

I haven't created a new character in quite some time, and this did not happen when i did, but since in an earlier post radu said "..we have a popup message telling the player to do the tutorial.." something similar may be implemented now. If so, sorry.

How about after character creation, as soon as you appear on Isla Prima a large window pops up and stays open for 30 seconds or so.

It could say:

- Welcome to Isla Prima! If you are a new player it would be wise to stick around here a while before moving to the mainland.

-The tutorial NPC has valuable information and quests for you.

-The Wraith will help you spend your attribute pickpoints as you gain them!

-Some other NPC's have quests as well, so explore and find a few!

-Player names are White, NPC names are Blue, Tradebot names are Purple

-Tips and Help will appear regularly at the top of your screen until you advance to a certain level!

-You are automatically joined into Channel 1, the Newbie help Channel. To ask a question type

@<question here> and wait for a response.

-You can also check the encyclopedia/skill guide/rules/commands by pressing Alt+E

-Once again Welcome, and Good Luck! We hope you enjoy your stay in Eternal Lands

 

Hopefully they'll read this and do one of these things.

Edited September 7, 2010 by Goot

[Entropy]

If people can't read a simple message to do the tutorial, what makes you think they will read all that text?

[Schmurk]

No offense but how do you know that he doesn't represent the average newbie? It is not because you would not have the same view as him on a new game that he's unique in his kind. I don't know which proportion of the MMOs players has the same way of thinking than him but I bet it's a huge part. So even if his opinion is not the best that we can expect, it still has to be considered because for a new player, if the few minutes or hours don't appeal him, it greatly reduces the chances to see him play the game.

 

Oh, I am pretty sure that a lot of newbies act like him, especially the younger generation. But in US we have a saying: You can lead a horse to water, but can't make him drink it.

We have a pretty nice tutorial, we have a popup message telling the player to do the tutorial, and the Tutorial NPC is named like that so people can clearly tell what that NPC does. I can't force people to do the tutorial, and even if I could I wouldn't want to anyway. If someone wants to actually try the game, then they would do the tutorial.

I totally agree with you. I did the tutorial with a new char and I found it really good.

But it has not really been criticized IIRC. He has decided to skip it, it's a choice.

 

Regarding the interface, it will take some time to get used to it, but I don't think it looks bad because of the lines. Did you play Fallout 3?

Yes I did.

It's a style... you like it or not.

 

Now, I'm not taking defense of the guy. I also think it's a moron. I'm just saying that if it was my game, I would take into consideration his criticism because I would tell me that if this guy thinks that, he's probably not the only one...

But do we want morons in the game?

LoL

I was sure you'll say that.

Honestly, I don't care. It's a choice...

But I didn't say that every people who are thinking the way he does are morons. After all, we are all a bit morons somewhere, nobody is perfect. It's not because someone has a stupid behavior in some situations that he doesn't have some other qualities.

[Entropy]

But I didn't say that every people who are thinking the way he does are morons. After all, we are all a bit morons somewhere, nobody is perfect. It's not because someone has a stupid behavior in some situations that he doesn't have some other qualities.

 

Did you see that cocksucker's reply to my e-mail? I think it is harder to find a bigger moron, even on the tubes of the internets.

[Schmurk]

But I didn't say that every people who are thinking the way he does are morons. After all, we are all a bit morons somewhere, nobody is perfect. It's not because someone has a stupid behavior in some situations that he doesn't have some other qualities.

 

Did you see that cocksucker's reply to my e-mail? I think it is harder to find a bigger moron, even on the tubes of the internets.

Yes I saw it. Did I say he was not a moron? I was talking about people playing like he does.

Obviously, regarding to his answer there's no doubt about him.

 

Anyway, I really think this video has to be taken as what it is, just a "first impression" of a guy. Now, it's up to you to decide if his impression (which is also shared by some other people it seems) is fine for you or not. I mean, is it the image you want to give of EL? Nothing more.

 

Now to clarify my position, I'm fine with the interface of EL, with the quests and all so I'm not defending this guy. The only thing I disagree with is the people who make deductions like: this guy is stupid => he's telling bullshit / nobody think like him => we don't have to consider his point of view.

[Pyewacket]

-snip-

 

Did you see that cocksucker's reply to my e-mail? I think it is harder to find a bigger moron, even on the tubes of the internets.

I disagree, I have every faith in the interweb and the modern moron to prove you wrong there, and expect to see bigger ones arrive any day now. Hopefully we will retain one or two of them in the playerbase, and give our current resident morons a breather.

 

Every village needs its idiot(s), it's a tradition.

[Khalai]

Now to clarify my position, I'm fine with the interface of EL, with the quests and all so I'm not defending this guy. The only thing I disagree with is the people who make deductions like: this guy is stupid => he's telling bullshit / nobody think like him => we don't have to consider his point of view.

 

Precisely. He may be a cocksucker, but that does not automatically proves him wrong in the content of his findings, doesn't it? Even if the guy called you whatever, he still may have hidden some truth behind rough and immature words. Do you think, it's not at least worth to dig a bit in them?

[Thyralax]

Now to clarify my position, I'm fine with the interface of EL, with the quests and all so I'm not defending this guy. The only thing I disagree with is the people who make deductions like: this guy is stupid => he's telling bullshit / nobody think like him => we don't have to consider his point of view.

 

Precisely. He may be a cocksucker, but that does not automatically proves him wrong in the content of his findings, doesn't it? Even if the guy called you whatever, he still may have hidden some truth behind rough and immature words. Do you think, it's not at least worth to dig a bit in them?

 

Well ent tried this to get some insight from him, and ended up hitting a wall of idiocy.

Why waste effort trying to explore his findings if all you get in reply is even more stupidity?

 

Explore the possibilities sure but after a while you have to just take a step back and say enough is enough and move onto the next persons constructive suggestions/ideas or carry on working on your own.

[Khalai]

Now to clarify my position, I'm fine with the interface of EL, with the quests and all so I'm not defending this guy. The only thing I disagree with is the people who make deductions like: this guy is stupid => he's telling bullshit / nobody think like him => we don't have to consider his point of view.

 

Precisely. He may be a cocksucker, but that does not automatically proves him wrong in the content of his findings, doesn't it? Even if the guy called you whatever, he still may have hidden some truth behind rough and immature words. Do you think, it's not at least worth to dig a bit in them?

 

Well ent tried this to get some insight from him, and ended up hitting a wall of idiocy.

Why waste effort trying to explore his findings if all you get in reply is even more stupidity?

 

Explore the possibilities sure but after a while you have to just take a step back and say enough is enough and move onto the next persons constructive suggestions/ideas or carry on working on your own.

 

I was speaking in general, not just in this case, when you are right. But the problem is much broader. Many people complain about several things. Whether it is good or bad is irrelevant. The problem is, they are automatically labelled as stupid, whiners, bitchers, moaners and crybabies and their opinions belittled, whether they really are just morons or are expressing some valid opinion.

 

This has nothing to do with being teh god, mod or some newbie. Even if someone is idioitic, does it give automatically right to react in the same manner? (again, speaking in general, not in this particular manner) Should we first try to explain things politely and in neutral manner?

 

My own opinion is, that this forum sometimes lacks politeness and professionality even from those, who should set an example and uphold these standarts. (now feel free to belittle me and such... )

 

(misunderstanding control: I am speaking in general, do not nitpick and assume, that I am talking about this case only or to certain people only)

[Aislinn]

My own opinion is, that this forum sometimes lacks politeness and professionality even from those, who should set an example and uphold these standarts. (now feel free to belittle me and such... )

Just remember that "this forum" is actually composed of human beings with feelings, just like the "whiners bitchers complainers" have. I agree there should be an expected level of professionalism and politeness. However you are not taking into account that everyone has a breaking point, even professional and polite people who should be setting the example. Being that this is more of big family style of gaming community, I do not think it unreasonable that they be allowed to be upset or frustrated or just plain angry and say so too.

 

It's not so much that criticisms or suggestions are frowned upon, it's more a matter of how they are presented and the repeated nature of that. Sometimes enough is enough and sometimes there IS that final straw, even if you haven't seen the basketful that came before it.

[nathanstenzel]

That wasn't only to Korrode, it was to all mods/devs.

Ummm I'm not a mod and by most usual definitions not a dev.

<CLIP>

He is more like a competitor. He has his own server that he is working on, but I have not looked at it myself. He has a webpage for it too.

 

He is an old timer in here and an experienced player. He knows alot about the game. I know alot about some of the game myself.

 

Heh. If you really want to chew on him, do it via pm. It can be fun. Don't be surprised if you find some of his views in contrast to yours.

[Entropy]

Precisely. He may be a cocksucker, but that does not automatically proves him wrong in the content of his findings, doesn't it? Even if the guy called you whatever, he still may have hidden some truth behind rough and immature words. Do you think, it's not at least worth to dig a bit in them?

 

Umm, no?

[wage]

Based on your third statement alone, I can safely conclude you are delusional. I can't converse with someone who thinks Eternal Lands has better graphics than Perfect World.

 

Wow, what an arrogant douche! It seems that playing too many MMORPGs greatly increases the selective reading skill and reduces politeness by the same amount.

[Entropy]

I was speaking in general, not just in this case, when you are right. But the problem is much broader. Many people complain about several things. Whether it is good or bad is irrelevant. The problem is, they are automatically labelled as stupid, whiners, bitchers, moaners and crybabies and their opinions belittled, whether they really are just morons or are expressing some valid opinion.

I don't call people who complain about valid things bad names. In fact, a lot of changes and additions to the game were based on complaints.

But when someone doesn't even play the game and complain about stuff that is already implemented, well, that pisses me off.

[ProHibited]

I was thinking about adding a new feature to this game.

 

Some sort of minigame, could be ingame or on forums or something.

 

Maybe call it Flame-Wars :0

[hobobob38]

you haven't seen channel 6?

[korrode]

That wasn't only to Korrode, it was to all mods/devs.

Ummm I'm not a mod and by most usual definitions not a dev.

<CLIP>

He is more like a competitor. He has his own server that he is working on, but I have not looked at it myself. He has a webpage for it too.

Just so it's known and I don't get PM's or whatever about it; that project is dead for the foreseeable future.

The main server coder appears to have lost interest and I'm now working lots more than I used, most of it on a permanent weekly basis, so it's doubtful we'll have time/inclination to pursue it further.

[sylvester]

I think it is very common that people tries a new game with a bad attitude and pseudo-criticism. Especially in the mentioned younger generations. But I do think bad behavior changes for many of these players along with their attitudes when they start to like the game. I didnt have a good attitude when I first tried EL years ago, but the attraction to the game developed as I saw more oppertunities and I found my respect to the community as I experienced it and I could see it from a wider perspective.

 

We cant expect the good players to just pop from no where. I think we need to attract all kind of players and humbly accept even some troublemakers who might actually turn out to be faithful in the end. Perhaps even at the cost of a few ugly question marks.

 

Anyone can see that the guy had no intents to give the game a chance for the few minutes he was playing it, but interesting subjects are brought up as a result.

 

Sincerest regards!

[The_Piper]

Anyone can see that the guy had no intents to give the game a chance for the few minutes he was playing it, but interesting subjects are brought up as a result.

 

Seriously, you can't rate games like this by just having a look at it and thats it.

 

And that's why i don't like that video.

 

Having no clue what's going on and making a video like that is not O.K., IMO.

 

As i tried to explain in my post about CHESS, things are too complicated to try to rate them like he did in his video.

 

Would you like to give that guy a Porsche 911 to test without having any clue what a car is and let him wreck this Porsche and let him post a video how bad that *MACHINE* is, which he is not able to control?

 

If you (or that guy) have no clue what you/he is talking about, better STFU.

 

My 2 cents again..

 

Piper