Wizzy Report post Posted August 15, 2010 I often hear in game from other players that they think it is a little silly that a level 30 ranger can so eaisly hit a 140's a/d player. This is especily a problem while the player is being tanked by a fighter, and has rangers shooting at him in a multi map. I propose that a players defense skill could help a player "dodge" a rangers arrow. Or if this is not possible, have a new ward that can be dropped which would "confuse the ranger" and absorb the damage from the arrows, or miss direct the rangers targeting to the ward, instead of the player. Any thoughts? Wiz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raytray Report post Posted August 15, 2010 I like the ward idea. As for defense causing arrow dodge, perhaps instead increase how Reaction cross attribute gives a chance of dodging. For the ward idea, could use something from a John Scalzi book (Zoe's Tale iirc) where the protagonist procures a piece of alien technology that wipes all kinetic energy from projectiles in a certain area. (Could just say it's magic for the sake of EL) and thus all arrows fall flat on the ground or miss way more often and deal significantly less damage? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khalai Report post Posted August 15, 2010 Thick air ward Reduces chance of being hit by arrow by 33% and reduces damage inflicted by arrow by 50%, last 90 seconds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stefan_T Report post Posted August 15, 2010 That sounds like a very good idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dom Report post Posted August 16, 2010 Yeah I 100% back the nerfing of rangers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ateh Report post Posted August 16, 2010 surely Perception should play a major part in the blocking / dodging of an arrow , after all if you cant see it coming you dont stand a chance but tbh after watching a few youtube videos of ranging in KF perhaps the AP are over powered to begin with, and the root cause should be adressed instead of the after effect bandaged i know its slightly off topic but to prove my point its said a stand alone fighter should not be able to take down a dragon alone, yet a stand alone ranger with full AP is perfectly fine? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bkc56 Report post Posted August 16, 2010 ... to prove my point its said a stand alone fighter should not be able to take down a dragon alone, yet a stand alone ranger with full AP is perfectly fine? I'm not sure that proves anything. It's pretty logical that a sufficiently strong weapon (mines?) or a weapon that keeps the attacker at a safe distance (ranging) would have the potential to kill something that simple sword/melee couldn't. You can argue degrees. A cannon/tank/gun could kill something big, but a slingshot might not (excluding any David/Goliath stories). Is an arrow strong enough (like a gun) or too weak (like a slingshot)? That can be debated, but the principle of killing something big from a distance still holds true. Now I understand that has little to do with EL. People will use the "Real Life" argument when it's convenient or supports their position. And they'll dismiss it when it doesn't. But I think we can agree it's possible to argue the effectiveness of ranged weapons from both sides. As to the "unfairness" of pinning an opponent with combat so that rangers can easily kill him... I wonder what would happen if missed shots had a 50% chance of hitting anyone engaged in combat with the target. After all, if you miss the target, odds are you could hit someone close by. Friendly fire is always a very real risk in close combat situations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
korrode Report post Posted August 16, 2010 As to the "unfairness" of pinning an opponent with combat so that rangers can easily kill him... I wonder what would happen if missed shots had a 50% chance of hitting anyone engaged in combat with the target. Now that's a nice idea Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Devnul Report post Posted August 16, 2010 (edited) I am sure all rangers, that spend hours on the skill and even more gc will "love" this idea. Why not making a ward that lowers attacker a/d by half huh? For me a/d 140 is overpowered in the same way like for you 60 AP. But I do not cry about it. Edited August 16, 2010 by Devnul Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
korrode Report post Posted August 16, 2010 (edited) I am sure all rangers, that spend hours on the skill and even more gc will "love" this idea. Awwww the poor wittle wangers they've spent oh just so much time and gc on their skill haven't they? NOT. Especially the time factor; the hours spent by the highest level ranger in EL right now pales in comparison to a 140's a/d'er. And if you start counting the gc spent by pp buyers who rangers still hit as easily as anyone, the gc rangers have spent VS fighters is like a puddle compared to a lake. Now, all that said, I've never been one to come out with cries about ranging being OP, despite seeing first hand how spastically quick people drop when rangers are around. I just largely stopped partaking in PK at places where ranging was strong... but it's really hard to stay silent if rangers are going to start crying about any inkling of their skill getting the nerfing that honestly it needs. edit: To be clear, I support def skill & attributes used in dodging ranged attacks. Makes sense anyway, plus if done right, with higher def = high range exp received, it'll help accelerate ranging a bit so actually getting it to levels where it can hit 140's def people won't be too distant. Would be much better than now where people spend a few months on a char and are hitting most anyone in the game np. Edited August 16, 2010 by Korrode Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
groomsh Report post Posted August 16, 2010 Nice idea. It could be also a summoned "creature" that attracts the arrows (false target) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eagleprince Report post Posted August 16, 2010 The ability to dodge a bullet would depend on your reflexes, not your strength. It should be similar here IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizzy Report post Posted August 16, 2010 The ability to dodge a bullet would depend on your reflexes, not your strength. It should be similar here IMO. Personaly I think defense skill should be used to calculate the chance of an arrow hitting a target and as Coordination/Instint help with dodging a sword, this should all be included into ranging also. So a 140 ranger with 48 perception should hit the hell out of someone, but someone with 45 rangeing should not beable to hit a 140 a/der every single time for 50-80 damage Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
korrode Report post Posted August 16, 2010 The ability to dodge a bullet would depend on your reflexes, not your strength. It should be similar here IMO. Agreed, hence def skill and reaction are the most logical, as they're already indicators of dodging, not strength. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sithis Report post Posted August 16, 2010 well since the issue is the protection against rangers , there could be a shield (armor not spell) that would offer some resistance to range attacks , imho the ward idea doesnt sound to me very good, because more players will benefit from trying to stop 1 opponent that ranges, we might use those dragon scales to make a new shield Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
korrode Report post Posted August 16, 2010 tbh this is still by far the best idea to be able to easily balance current and future PvP: http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=50941 With that the underpower of the great swords VS dragon armor could be addressed, this ranging issue could be addressed, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Choris Report post Posted August 16, 2010 (edited) Reaction does already have an effect on how well you can dodge hits while ranged. The effect is not that big, but easy to notice when shooting a guard bot with 500 coord (they're almost impossible to hit). It would probably be a simple solution to make that effect bigger, but that would mostly benefit those with already high a/d and lots of bought pickpoints, making single top characters even stronger and tactics in PK less important. About the ward idea, it probably would not work with how wards currently work. Wards are all per step chances, not constant effects. Armor or shield that gives protection against rangers is a good idea, but needs to be balanced with a downside (big melee penalties while using it). Edited August 16, 2010 by Choris Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizzy Report post Posted August 16, 2010 Reaction does already have an effect on how well you can dodge hits while ranged. The effect is not that big, but easy to notice when shooting a guard bot with 500 coord (they're almost impossible to hit). It would probably be a simple solution to make that effect bigger, but that would mostly benefit those with already high a/d and lots of bought pickpoints, making single top characters even stronger and tactics in PK less important. About the ward idea, it probably would not work with how wards currently work. Wards are all per step chances, not constant effects. Armor or shield that gives protection against rangers is a good idea, but needs to be balanced with a downside (big melee penalties while using it). I agree As for the benefit with high a/d and bought pp, maybe the arrows critical to hit could be pretty high? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miiks Report post Posted August 16, 2010 Staff that protects you against rangers would be pr0. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted August 16, 2010 i know its slightly off topic but to prove my point its said a stand alone fighter should not be able to take down a dragon alone, yet a stand alone ranger with full AP is perfectly fine? I don't get it. You mean there are not lots of fighters who can take dragons 1v1? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
korrode Report post Posted August 16, 2010 Reaction does already have an effect on how well you can dodge hits while ranged. The effect is not that big, but easy to notice when shooting a guard bot with 500 coord (they're almost impossible to hit). It would probably be a simple solution to make that effect bigger, but that would mostly benefit those with already high a/d and lots of bought pickpoints, making single top characters even stronger and tactics in PK less important. True enough, so def level is better to add into the calculation rather than increasing the weight of reaction. ^^ That way it's just the insane trainers and char buyers getting benefits, rather than the insane trainers, char buyers and pickpoint buyers :> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wuffzel Report post Posted August 16, 2010 (edited) hmmm, i don't range in PK maps...but i m a bit confused while a ranger stands and aims he is a defenceless target to other fighters / rangers and yes, ranging is beside magic a powerfull skill it is in real life and it is in most games. i would find it a bit unfair if you just be untouchable to a ranger, while i have no chance to walk into PK map without getting killed fast, cause i m not an uber fighter a solution with special protecting armor sounds good, maybe with def penalty in melee cause the armor is more heavy then usual melee armor well only my thoughts .... as i said i range only creatures edit : ups forgott ... there is a way to get out of line, dis and bring your opponent in the line of the ranger, using tactics, not only a/d Edited August 16, 2010 by wuffzel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
korrode Report post Posted August 16, 2010 i would find it a bit unfair if you just be untouchable to a ranger, while i have no chance You're saying that you believe your time spent on ranging equates to it being fair that you easily hit someone who's spent the time to get to 140's def? to build their reaction higher than your perception? Can I ask, how much time do you think you've spent on levelling ranging? That way we can compare it to the time a person who's levelled to 140 def has spent on that and see if they are comparable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wuffzel Report post Posted August 16, 2010 (edited) i would find it a bit unfair if you just be untouchable to a ranger, while i have no chance You're saying that you believe your time spent on ranging equates to it being fair that you easily hit someone who's spent the time to get to 140's def? to build their reaction higher than your perception? Can I ask, how much time do you think you've spent on levelling ranging? That way we can compare it to the time a person who's levelled to 140 def has spent on that and see if they are comparable. me ? oh it took me from january till now to get ranging from low 20th to 54 and about 1 mio gc ... with no AP so far Edited August 16, 2010 by wuffzel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ateh Report post Posted August 17, 2010 i know its slightly off topic but to prove my point its said a stand alone fighter should not be able to take down a dragon alone, yet a stand alone ranger with full AP is perfectly fine? I don't get it. You mean there are not lots of fighters who can take dragons 1v1? perhaps the analogy took me away from my main point which is that instead of applying a bandage, such as a ranging ward to ward of those full AP archers, perhaps something to do with the overall power of the AP should be adressed. But its only an opinion its not like i'm saying im right or anything. If its the the power of the max AP thats trying to be adressed why not adress it directly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites