Game ethics

[nathanstenzel]

Korrode, I never claimed to be an expert on fighting.

I never claimed my answer to Hussam's question or was within the context of the OMG must get most xp/hour realm.

 

You have debated with me a number of times before. You should know that I don't always stay within the context of a discussion.

 

The game is more about being social to me. Now, with that in mind, reread my answer to Hussam's question. Do I sound like I am being social or going for a/d xp/hour when I do that stuff which I mentioned? This is a social game, afterall.

 

Oh....and FYI, I fight cyclops right now. Not very efficiently, since I choose to use a ti serp, but with a nice xp/hour if I am focused. I also fight fluffy from time to time, but not efficiently. It is a low coordination/lack of focus/lack of will to train thing and not a lack of skill thing. I am almost out of the newb instance requirements. pssst....I mention this since you say I don't fight fluffies. I do, but just when I feel like it. And no, there is no need to comment like "OMG You are not ready to TRAIN fluffy" because I know I am not ready to train fluffy.

 

Oh.....and if anyone forgot, please reread the topic of the discussion. It says "game ethics". I think more than a/d trainers are supposed to have those.

Edited July 2, 2010 by nathanstenzel

[korrode]

The fact you read Hussam's questions as being related to anything other than training further justifies my point... and realistically, like really here Nathan, with no posturing, did you really think Hussam's question of "how can you exactly share a single spawn?" was in the context of anything other than training? Are you that naive?

 

Of course if a person is fighting something that's a difficult challenge they may well want help.

If I'm out having a go at some giants and someone comes by wants to fight it to, there's a good chance i'll welcome the help.

I thought the context being training would be obvious to anyone, i can only assume I was wrong and you really didn't get that.

 

Let me give you an example to see if we actually disagree on the actual point of the issue:

 

If you're in Idaloran mines using a single cyclops spawn there, you're just staying in the one location, training the one cyclops that spawns where you are; If someone comes along and attacks that cyclops before you do when it respawns, kills it, and then stands next to you and waits for it to respawn and then races you to attack it each time, would you be happy with how that person is acting?

 

EDIT:

Yes i completely agree, this is exactly what i'm doing. If i go and train VERY rarely and out of these very few training sessions i see such behavior then it's logical to say:

Most fighters are greedy except of playerX, playerY etc ..

My former opinion was that most fighters are ok, but i changed it according to my own experience which was overall negative - this is also what humans do.

Well I'm sorry that's been you experience. My experience, as some who leveled a char from scratch to mid 130's a/d, who's trained everything from brown rabbits to cockatrice, who's trained along side hundreds of other trainers at locations with lots of spawns, it hasn't been my experience that the majority of a/d trainers display any amount of 'greed' that i would consider excessive or unwarranted.

 

Guess you've just had a bad run.

Edited July 2, 2010 by Korrode

[nathanstenzel]

The fact you read Hussam's questions as being related to anything other than training further justifies my point... and realistically, like really here Nathan, with no posturing, did you really think Hussam's question of "how can you exactly share a single spawn?" was in the context of anything other than training? Are you that naive?

<CLIP>

If you're in Idaloran mines using a single cyclops spawn there, you're just staying in the one location, training the one cyclops that spawns where you are; If someone comes along and attacks that cyclops before you do when it respawns, kills it, and then stands next to you and waits for it to respawn and then races you to attack it each time, would you be happy with how that person is acting?

Ahhhhh....I see what is going on here. You automatically assume that the only valid type of a/d training is the "OMG must get most xp/hour" sort of a/d training. Like nobody can a/d train in a more relaxed manner than having the maximum a/d xp per hour. Like nobody can put being social above a/d xp/hr for even a minute. Like nobody can have fun a/d training without being glued to their screen screaming "DIE DIE DIE" at their foes. What a shame. You might have more fun if you learn to relax and take it easy once in a while.

 

About the cyclops training, I don't know that area very well. I don't know if there is more than one spawn in the area you are referring to. I will assume there is only one spawn in that immediate area. No. I would not be happy with it. I would ask them if they would like to share. If they don't want to share, I may call them rude and see if there is another spawn or behave how they are and race them to the cyclops.

Edited July 2, 2010 by nathanstenzel

[chr0nik]

Ahhhhh....I see what is going on here. You automatically assume that the only valid type of a/d training is the "OMG must get most xp/hour" sort of a/d training. Like nobody can a/d train in a more relaxed manner than having the maximum a/d xp per hour. Like nobody can put being social above a/d xp/hr for even a minute. Like nobody can have fun a/d training without being glued to their screen screaming "DIE DIE DIE" at their foes. What a shame. You might have more fun if you learn to relax and take it easy once in a while.

Creating such extreme examples doesn't make your argument any more compelling or intelligent.

 

You can argue until you're blue in the face, no one no high level alchemist mixes FE or other low ess to level alchemy, no one trains in ridiculous ways or on mobs 50 a/d below them well below their a/d levels b/c it's fun & relaxing. So you have an opinion as you always do, great, that doesn't decrease the validity of other arguments stated here

 

Most trainers don't get the absolute maximum, perfect oa/hr. The top clops, fluff, feros, fchim, yeti etc. spawns are multi. How many are there? So what do you think the trainers who continue to train even though they don't have the absolute perfect spawn are doing? Be realistic and give up this long effort of painting players who enjoy training as somehow less than everyone else.

 

EDIT: left original w/ strike-out font

Edited July 2, 2010 by chr0nik

[vinoveritas]

Maybe, some one with time on their hands should draft up a set of community rules and see how many guilds would actually sign up to them

 

Regarding "evil doers" are a component of the game dynamics and as long as "U Obey. U OK!" then they are here to stay.

That was done some time ago.

This is an open wiki, so anyone there is welcome to add and change stuff. But even as this wiki was made after some talks with other Guilds, who wanted to support it, there are very few that actually want something in writing.

http://holy-eternalland.de/index.php?id=50

 

I as one who wrote this down, see that only as a guideline, of what people should do if they want to be a nice guy, I do not belive that everyone in this game needs to be a nice guy. In fact i respect people who play after their own set of rules of behaviour in this game (Well there is a limit of behaviour that i respect but thats life). So while there might be a comunity ruleset, which is in fact good for a playing together without to many dissapointments, nobody should expect that everyone lives by it, or abide it, the only rules you need to follow are the game rules, regardless what you think about them, simply as that.

[nathanstenzel]

Ahhhhh....I see what is going on here. You automatically assume that the only valid type of a/d training is the "OMG must get most xp/hour" sort of a/d training. Like nobody can a/d train in a more relaxed manner than having the maximum a/d xp per hour. Like nobody can put being social above a/d xp/hr for even a minute. Like nobody can have fun a/d training without being glued to their screen screaming "DIE DIE DIE" at their foes. What a shame. You might have more fun if you learn to relax and take it easy once in a while.

Creating such extreme examples doesn't make your argument any more compelling or intelligent.

 

You can argue until you're blue in the face, no one no high level alchemist mixes FE or other low ess to level alchemy, no one trains in ridiculous ways or on mobs 50 a/d below them well below their a/d levels b/c it's fun & relaxing. So you have an opinion as you always do, great, that doesn't decrease the validity of other arguments stated here

 

Most trainers don't get the absolute maximum, perfect oa/hr. The top clops, fluff, feros, fchim, yeti etc. spawns are multi. How many are there? So what do you think the trainers who continue to train even though they don't have the absolute perfect spawn are doing? Be realistic and give up this long effort of painting players who enjoy training as somehow less than everyone else.

 

EDIT: left original w/ strike-out font

Nevermind me....I was just noticing that Korrode was totally overlooking that there are more than just "OMG must get the most a/d xp/hr" trainers in existence. I was not saying that all a/d trainers are like that. On the contrary, I was saying there are more than just that sort of a/d trainer.

[korrode]

I wasn't overlooking anything.

 

I've already said twice in this thread that exp p/h is only one of multiple key points.

If you can't read, that's your problem.

Edited July 3, 2010 by Korrode

[Pyewacket]

You can argue until you're blue in the face, no one no high level alchemist mixes FE or other low ess to level alchemy, no one trains in ridiculous ways or on mobs 50 a/d below them well below their a/d levels b/c it's fun & relaxing.

 

I'm blue in the bum from all the ridiculous ways i train on mobs well below my a/d levels b/c it's fun and relaxing (and i get loads of drops).

 

This doesn't help much, this post, does it?

 

Oh well...vive la difference. and VIVA CHAOS.

[Lorlen]

The community rules only exist because this game has such a small community that they are able to enforce them.

 

Bagjumping is always going to be looked down on. It might be "just a game" but the time and effort invested in it are real. The loss if you lose lots of stuff is still the same. While the community remains as small as it is then you won't get too many people who take dbs without caring about the consequences. With a game like runescape (as it was, haven't played for years) it was alot easier to take the stuff people dropped when they died and get away with it. With such a large population you could always find other people to deal with; this can't happen in EL... Same way you don't go robbing from your neighbours when you know they'll find out it was you. The possible reward isn't worth the risk of what will happen if you get found out.

 

Honourable PK isn't really a community rule; as least it didn't used to be. We used to kill anyone we didn't like or know, which mostly consisted of randomers coming into KF. No-one really used to mind; we were never really outlawed or anything. Hell most people liked us in a way. Ofcourse back in the day items were so much cheaper and everyone had similar levels; drops were easily replaced and fights were normally just fun. Gains and losses normally evened out, and if not profit from training meant everyone could afford to PK abit. Can't really comment on how PK is these days as I don't play :>

 

Like Korrode said for spawnserping; the way the combat system in this game is designed spawnserping can only ever be viewed as a deliberate attempt to harm someone's training. There isn't another logical reason for someone to do it if they have any idea of how the game mechanics work.

 

It basically boils down to the fact that this game has always had a small and basically closed community. Sure lots of new people get involved but only if they conform to the pre-existing set of community rules. Those who don't tend to get fed up and leave; you can't expect someone to just come in and start being "evil", not caring about being ostracised from the community and generally viewed as a bad person. Not that the rules are bad; they represent common sense and are good for the game. You just can't expect them to change that much unless the population of the game suddenly booms massively.