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Impact of MM Cost on Newbies

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I've been working on ditching MM, and was shocked when I ended up having to pay around 15k for an MM cloak. The prices have risen dramatically over the last few years. Now, it isn't that big deal since 15k isn't much for a decent-level player who doesn't break them left and right. However, I'm a bit concerned about the impact this has on newbies.

 

MM Cloaks are one of the first items a newbie will tend to save up for - or at least they used to be. They used to be around 5k, maybe 7k in later years. That is a LOT of gc for somebody who can't even carry the ingreds for 2 iron bars. Until they have MM most of the game world is inaccessible to them.

 

Now, dangerous maps are part of the game dynamic, but I think that we're currently out of balance. EL really needs to help newbies to get started if it wants to grow.

 

If the concern is that we want MMs to have a higher price for experienced players, perhaps the solution is a one-time quest accessible to newbies to get them a cloak. Perhaps the quest might even cost a few k in gc equivalent. Of course, the simplest solution is just upping the drop rate so that the price drops overall, or capping their price via an npc.

 

I just remember back to my newbie days when remembering to wear an MM cloak and being careful not to break it was part of the game mechanic. Now it just seems to be that newbies need to confine themselves to 3 maps in the day, and 4 at night.

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Don't forget MM removal stone is available now.

 

A newbie can easily take the MM perk, level up until the point comes they can easily afford the cape or no longer need it, then remove the perk with a relatively cheap stone.

 

That option was also not available when the cloaks were cheaper.

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I like the newb quest idea. Victor could offer the quest, the reward of which would be 1 cloak from a selection consisting of all the cloaks he sells & MM. That way you could get excavator if you thought that was more useful to you, and the market wouldn't find itself flooded with MMs quite so quickly.

 

At any rate I agree that MMs are too expensive.

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Hi! ... it's pretty much possible to play without MM for a long time, you cannot explore everything at once anyways, and you still will have areas to uncover later when you advance so there's always something for you to achieve - i think that's good!

 

what i found worse is, that it has become harder for a newbie to buy armors/swords, because all the pr0s are just focused on burning them at the daily quests.

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Don't forget MM removal stone is available now.

Isn't it instance only (one of the top 2 levels)?

 

I don't think we even have the option for it on the PK server (which really hurts as I was counting on it for over a year when Entropy said one would be introduced) plus it is probably way more expensive than a cloak or several.

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I do not mean to be a nay sayer, but wouldn't a noob go OOOOHHHH!!!! I can get a lot of gold for this, and sell without realising how useful it is

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True Cilestiel,

 

In which case, they can buy it back later :icon13:

 

What made the price of MMs go up? I can't recall the drop chance was decreased....

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I do not mean to be a nay sayer, but wouldn't a noob go OOOOHHHH!!!! I can get a lot of gold for this, and sell without realising how useful it is

 

Good point - if an MM cloak isn't worth buying for 15k, then it isn't worth keeping for 15k either. Indeed, I could see people signing up alts left and right just to run the quest.

 

Obviously changing the drop rate is still a fix. Perhaps there are other ways to change the newbie dynamic as well.

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MM Mirror and BP cloaks have seemed to be removed from fluffys..which other then ogres and yetis are pretty much the most grinded mobs in game.

 

I would suggest re-instating the MM cloak as a drop to fluff and then people will have a few extra to sell from time to time. The price will probably go down a bit in time?

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I think that Radu has in his mind to increase MM drop when he sees new players logging and not before. Prices of everything is going up fast, game needs more players.

 

One solution to this problem would be the following

NEW cape made-able from tailoring that u can only wear it until lvl OA 40, that would provide the "newbies" the time to get gold etc to buy the normal one.

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I think that Radu has in his mind to increase MM drop when he sees new players logging and not before. Prices of everything is going up fast, game needs more players.

 

One solution to this problem would be the following

NEW cape made-able from tailoring that u can only wear it until lvl OA 40, that would provide the "newbies" the time to get gold etc to buy the normal one.

Not a bad idea, but I have to wonder if it would still be worth buying with the ingredients that would be involved. Tailoring is an expensive skill.

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One solution to this problem would be the following

NEW cape made-able from tailoring that u can only wear it until lvl OA 40, that would provide the "newbies" the time to get gold etc to buy the normal one.

Not a bad idea, but I have to wonder if it would still be worth buying with the ingredients that would be involved. Tailoring is an expensive skill.

 

That really just depends on what ingredients are actually involved. An MM cape for newbies shouldn't cost 100gc - but it probably shouldn't cost 10k either. Something more in-line with the fast regen cape is probably appropriate.

 

Yes, that does mean that it can't require the same kind of ingredient chain that goes into the other cloaks/shirts/pants/etc. It really does need to be simple. Perhaps this might even be a practical item that lower-level tailors could make. Maybe it might even be something a newbie could work towards making for themselves?

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how about the MM cloak makable by players with 1 ingreed bought from a NPC Henrik in WS, and use up some unusable items eg

 

5 x fox scarf

2 x fur cloak

1 x unicorn hair(which he asked the unicorn for)

10 x thread

 

need a needle, and scissors to cut the unicorn hair (could use up a pair of scissors each time due to the unicorn hair being magical)

 

unicorn hair 3.5 k gold coin from Henrik (a money sink, low lvl manuers can sell their items more, and helps keep MM cloak at a reasonable level)

Edited by Cilestiel

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Making Mm cloaks cheaper seems counter productive to me. If everywhere is accessable from the outset or very quickly then it makes exploration that little bit less exciting.

 

Yes its hard to get to a level where you can buy a MM cloak.

But the perk is cheap for those who dont want to go fighting and train a/d. and it is removable later on if you feel that you dont want/need it anymore.

 

level 21 defence is quite easy to get to nowdays and that makes a lot of maps safe to visit. More spawns of lower level critters and the daily fighting quests along with the combat quest. have made it so much easier to train a/d quickly. You can probably get to defence 21 in a week maybe less now, soon after comes defence 26 and then your set for a long time.

 

 

Additionally if you dont want to train a/d to get the levels required to explore unaided, the perk is a better option. As you cant harvest efficently in dangerous spots whilst wearing a MM cloak. That excavator cloak makes all the difference.

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At the risk of stating another politically incorrect (within the world of EL that is) observation...

Newbies have everything handed to them as it is to cater to the instant gratification craze that has hit.

They need goals and things to work for that can only be attained by effort, not money or gifts. If they don't have this, they will become quickly bored and leave.

 

The game is not harder for newbies now than it was X years ago. It is basically the same for newbies. If anything, they have access to much more than they ever did.

The difference is that "way back then" everyone else was hanging around IP (not their alts) or White Stone ready and willing to help them. Not give them things, but teach and guide them, and accept them into their guilds.

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Wow...

 

Didn't know it was so hard to gather 15kgc to buy the cloak for?

When i was a newbie i quickly learned from others by asking that the best way to earn gc was to harvest and sell flowers or mix and sell FEs (takes longer to make but you will get EXP and a nice amount of GC out of it and mabe even an EFE) or even offer my harvesting skill to someone that needed huge amounts of low lvled flowers.

 

Sure it took a while to gather the GC i needed (well not that long) but when i was done i bought all the gear i needed and more

There are several ways for a newbie to earn their living in EL, all they have to do is ask about it and i am sure there will be alot of fellow players that will assist in giving them advice about it.

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Wow...

 

Didn't know it was so hard to gather 15kgc to buy the cloak for?

When i was a newbie...

 

Well, 15k probably represents at least an hour or two of work for most mid-level chars - maybe a few hours if you aren't working hard at it. For a casual player that can be a week of real world time. For a newbie it could be much longer.

 

Keep in mind that EL shouldn't be designed for an 8hr/day*7d/wk player. That is, unless you want to limit it to these kinds of players. Arguably the success of many other games is their appeal to much more casual gamers.

 

When I was a newbie an MM cloak cost maybe 6-7k, and it still represented a serious sacrifice to buy one. I don't know that gc/hr rates for newbies have gone up much such that 100% inflation makes sense.

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'Not give them things, but teach and guide them, and accept them into their guilds.'

 

YES !!!! thats the way i learned it about a year ago, got into LLL and found older players

telling me how things working.

 

and i got my 1st mm cape, well for about 7 or 8 k gc, i picked lots of flowers for it :)

 

just giving it to a 'newbe' well, what makes us shure he/she wouldn't sell it for a few k to buy better

armor, weapons...

 

i learned a lot on my way, just found 2 mm as a drop - ogre and cyclops- one i gave to a new member

one i sold to a friend for 9k gc !!!

 

if prizes rising more and more, the question about how new player can handle them will come more often.

 

btw i found my way into the guild, cause i got killed by bob and a guildie pm'ed me :)

 

so sometimes a death can bring you more far in the game then a gift :)

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This is why the first thing I did with my charachter was get the mm perk, now I dont need the mm cape and I can where my FR or PS cloak while having the mm perk active. Best investment ive made.

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For a new player, which is willing to take advice from others, the two first purchases would be an excav cape, then an MM cape. Major price difference between the two! Fast way for newbies to make that money is harvesting lilacs in Whitestone and selling them to the NPC for 0.5gc each (an old scheme but a good one).

 

Just want to give you a rough idea of how hard newbie has to work.

 

Harvest Time: ~5 mins

Walk time: 2 mins

 

Excav

EMU: 200

Value: 2900

Lilacs: 5800

Trips: 29

Time: 3 hours 23 mins

 

MM cape

EMU: 280

Value: 15000

Lilacs: 30000

Trips: 109

Time: 8 hours 10 mins (with excav on)

 

K, rough comparison.

 

Hard work for a newbie in my opinion - Getting a 15k cape before you can go fetch some books for 3kgc. Rather try to just buy the books from someone and get scammed like I did ;)

Edited by Zenial

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I took MM as well as a newbie, and in the end it worked out just fine since the removal stones came along. However, in general it isn't really good for newbies to just take perks left and right - there is no guarantee that an MM stone won't cost 400k when they eventually get around to buying one. Perks should be very carefully considered.

 

I still think that an MM cape should be cheaper. It shouldn't be so cheap as to be a trivial thing, but there is a big difference between a 7k cape and a 15k cape. I don't consider 15k a trivial sum and I'm in the 80s OA and have been playing for years.

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Zen's post is a good reminder of just how long it takes to make gc early on in EL, we should keep it in mind more often.

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