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Is it worth it mixing high level manu items

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There is no need to increase NPC prices, thats stupid idea. With items more expansive than NPC sell price it's good for economy. Players will buy from NPC which means gc sink and it will lower consume of rare items.

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The problem is not the prices. It is the lack of stability. A cutlass used to be 25kgcs. Now it's better to buy from NPC for 40k. Nevertheless most people would rather spend 40k knowing this is a stable price than for example 33 to 38k in a fluctuating market.

Why would someone rather pay 40k than 33 to 38k?

 

it is possible to force players to sel items at certain prices, make NPC's buy/sell those items at a certain price, lets say 7k each.

if someone sells for more the buyer can say no and go to the npc.

The reason this thread was created was in response to the fact that the ings for many high level items cost more than the NPC price for that item. If the ings for a sword cost 10k gc and the NPC price for that sword is 7k, players aren't going to sell the sword for 7k and absorb the 3k gc difference as a loss. They will simply not make the sword at all. Why would anyone spend 10k gc to make an item if they can only sell it for 7k?

 

What we now have is a situation where players don't make certain high level items anymore because NPCs sell them for less than it costs players to make them.

 

The underlying question we need to answer in this thread is:

 

Is it better to keep prices for some items stable and relatively low, or to make it worthwhile for players to start making those items again?

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There is no need to increase NPC prices, thats stupid idea. With items more expansive than NPC sell price it's good for economy. Players will buy from NPC which means gc sink and it will lower consume of rare items.

 

lets do the same for all skills

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SlimPickins, fighters need sustainability. They put budgets for armor, potions, essences, etc..

It's not the high/low price that affects them but the stability of prices and availability of items that is important.

If a PKer is going to risk breaking dragon armor, then he/she will want the dragon armor price to be relatively stable.

If ingredient prices where lower than product prices, manufacturers will produce more and more people would buy items.

 

It's the same principle with when people used to suggest making PK less costly. same principle applies to all skills. less costs = more action. no one wants a long fight where so many resources are spent without an end result. In manufacturing, no one will buy from a manufacturer when prices keep going up and down. NPC prices are stable and sustainable. a sword costs the same now as it did in 2008.

Edited by hussam

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I think that EFE prices are about due for a price decrease. I don't know about you guys, but I noticed a nice increase in EFE production (yes, actually making one while mixing normal FE) since the garrison stocking quest has been implemented.

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It's not NPC that keeps prices stable, it only define lowest and highest price of item. Bots are keeping items stable cause u can get market price of item by looking bot buy/sell price (by bot listing) and get some average price of item. Today economy situation is not Radu's fault, it's players that did that. Why? In one hand greed (if I can sell for more, why not),

collectors (they don't care about price they will collect more than 100 of rare items and there will be enough of them in game and rate will be lowered),

fame (want to mix special imba uber item),

fancy looking (why would i train on goblins in leather armor when i can train in shiny tit pl8 or in pr0 dragon armor, but i don't understand how fighting system works and i'll waste rostogol stones),

etc.

Every action has reaction. If u do something that triggers something don't whine l8er about it.

 

Let's just say few high lvl skills are worthless (manufacture, crafting a bit, alchemy a bit and maybe others too), only cause of players.

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There is no need to increase NPC prices, thats stupid idea. With items more expansive than NPC sell price it's good for economy. Players will buy from NPC which means gc sink and it will lower consume of rare items.

 

Increasing the NPC prices just a bit that Manuers can compete would work to keep the gold sink, since the NPCs then sell fewer items but for a higher price.

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The problem is not the prices. It is the lack of stability. A cutlass used to be 25kgcs. Now it's better to buy from NPC for 40k. Nevertheless most people would rather spend 40k knowing this is a stable price than for example 33 to 38k in a fluctuating market.

Why would someone rather pay 40k than 33 to 38k?

 

it is possible to force players to sel items at certain prices, make NPC's buy/sell those items at a certain price, lets say 7k each.

if someone sells for more the buyer can say no and go to the npc.

The reason this thread was created was in response to the fact that the ings for many high level items cost more than the NPC price for that item. If the ings for a sword cost 10k gc and the NPC price for that sword is 7k, players aren't going to sell the sword for 7k and absorb the 3k gc difference as a loss. They will simply not make the sword at all. Why would anyone spend 10k gc to make an item if they can only sell it for 7k?

 

but with buy/sell prices on NPC's for any item the product can be as cheap to produce as radu wants it, or sell for as much as radu wants.

take Steel Plate as an example

 

Ingreds for a Steel plate:

4 Hydro bars

3 EFE

30 steel bars

5 leather

6 threads

 

if all the ingreds, excluding the EFE were available from an NPC for like 25k all together, and the same NPC would sell Steel Plate for 50k

you'd have a set amount of prices on those ingreds, and your end product, it would be up to you how big your profit is depending on how much you want to pay for EFE.

you'd always have certainty of having profit, unless you decide to overbid on EFE, but then you cant include the extra cost from overbidding into your end product price, cause then a buyer would say "no ty, ill buy from npc" (or someone else)

right now theres no set amount of prices, if one decides to buy EFE for 15k that will be the new price, he includes the raise in the end product price and that raise in the end product will be the new price.. and then buyers will say "fk this im not paying that much for that"

 

with a set price on harvestables harvesters wouldnt be able to overprice their iron, silver or other ore/mineral/flower cause it would be more worthwhile to buy from NPC, keeping the prices on items low and profitable.

same goes for manuers, crafters, potters, alchers, engineers, etc

Edited by Infamous

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There is no need to increase NPC prices, thats stupid idea. With items more expansive than NPC sell price it's good for economy. Players will buy from NPC which means gc sink and it will lower consume of rare items.

 

lets do the same for all skills

 

and thats exactly the point.

we dont have NPC selling COLs for 80k, but we have NPC that sells cutlass for 40k.

My 'solution' to raise NPC selling price was NOT a recommendation, it was only the solution to how to sell more handmade cutlasses if wanted.

 

But: you dont counter inflation with just demanding certain things like 'people shouldnt look for the best price' or 'this and that is overpriced'. After all the prices are set by the $-gc ratio on the inofficial market for gc.

If you want tokens from the shop, then you could as well just sell gc from the shop for $. And i still think that would be a good thing, even if ratio would be slightly worse than on black market, because you have less risks and the $ goes to the right one.

 

regards

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It's not the high/low price that affects them but the stability of prices and availability of items that is important.

If a PKer is going to risk breaking dragon armor, then he/she will want the dragon armor price to be relatively stable.

If ingredient prices where lower than product prices, manufacturers will produce more and more people would buy items.

Price stability and item availability are two different things. It's good for buyers for items to be available, but stability is something else. Prices can be both high and stable. Personally, I'd rather prices for products I buy to change and be low, than stay the same and be high. That way, I would save money.

Right now, there are some items that are only available from NPCs because players won't make items if they can't sell them for at least what it cost to make them. Since these items are available from NPCs, prices are stable and the items are always available. If the NPC prices for these items were to be increased to the point where players can compete, the items would still always be available. Price stability is less important than availability.

In manufacturing, no one will buy from a manufacturer when prices keep going up and down.

I will. Why do I care if the price changes as long as it's a good price for the item I'm buying?

NPC prices are stable and sustainable. a sword costs the same now as it did in 2008.

The NPC prices are the same as they were in 2008. That doesn't mean swords cost the same as they did back then since players didn't buy them from NPCs then. They bought them from other players for less than the NPC cost. Cutlesses used to cost 20k, remember? Now they cost 40k.

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if all the ingreds, excluding the EFE were available from an NPC for like 25k all together, and the same NPC would sell Steel Plate for 50k

you'd have a set amount of prices on those ingreds, and your end product, it would be up to you how big your profit is depending on how much you want to pay for EFE.

It would be wonderful for sellers if they got to decide how much profit they wanted, but that's not how commerce works. We don't get to decide what we pay for EFE or for anything else. Buyers don't get to name their own price. If we could do that, I'd buy an ice dragon set for 1gc.

with a set price on harvestables harvesters wouldnt be able to overprice their iron, silver or other ore/mineral/flower cause it would be more worthwhile to buy from NPC

How do you propose we set the price on harvestables?

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There is no need to increase NPC prices, thats stupid idea. With items more expansive than NPC sell price it's good for economy. Players will buy from NPC which means gc sink and it will lower consume of rare items.

 

lets do the same for all skills

 

and thats exactly the point.

we dont have NPC selling COLs for 80k, but we have NPC that sells cutlass for 40k.

My 'solution' to raise NPC selling price was NOT a recommendation, it was only the solution to how to sell more handmade cutlasses if wanted.

 

That isn't solution..

No one said you can't sell handmade cutlasses, it's only if u want to sell them cheaper than ings cost.

As i said NPC defines the highest price of item that was meant to be. If NPC prices stay as they are, even rare items prices will have limit on how high they can go. If u raise NPC price, market price will go up again and again and it wont solve anything. Problems like this need to be solved by players. If we can't make agreement on some prices, then let it be as it is and buy cutlasses from NPC.

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take Steel Plate as an example

 

Ingreds for a Steel plate:

4 Hydro bars

3 EFE

30 steel bars

5 leather

6 threads

 

if all the ingreds, excluding the EFE were available from an NPC for like 25k all together, and the same NPC would sell Steel Plate for 50k

 

4 hydro bars less than 25k? Imagine the PP party. It is not that simple . There are too many items that need armors / swords to be made, thats why the only solution as i understand it is to increase npc prices. (that is because i dont think Radu is gonna give us like better chances finding/making rare ings )

Edited by Xanthus

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There is no need to increase NPC prices, thats stupid idea. With items more expansive than NPC sell price it's good for economy. Players will buy from NPC which means gc sink and it will lower consume of rare items.

 

 

Are we playing Eternal Lands, the game where you can develop skills and if you develop them for long enough you can make nice stuff and sell them and make a nice profit, or are we playing some Economy Simulation game? I think it's the first, and in that case, how much more sense does it make to make sure making an item with gathered mats, will be less costly to produce than it would cost to go to an NPC and buy the item, without any risk of critfailing?

 

Shouldn't improvements to a game in the first place be to stimulate the players, and motivate them to want to level even further because at the end, the reward is good?

 

The discussion about people selling shopstuff ingame for far too much gc has been going for too long to even have a sparkle of hope to that ever sorting itself out in everyone's best interest, so perhaps increasing the NPC prices for certain highlevel endproducts is the only thing that will work.

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Problems like this need to be solved by players. If we can't make agreement on some prices, then let it be as it is and buy cutlasses from NPC.

Players can't and won't ever agree on prices. Sellers will always try to sell for the highest price they can and buyers will always try to buy for the lowest price they can. It's capitalism at its most basic.

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if all the ingreds, excluding the EFE were available from an NPC for like 25k all together, and the same NPC would sell Steel Plate for 50k

you'd have a set amount of prices on those ingreds, and your end product, it would be up to you how big your profit is depending on how much you want to pay for EFE.

It would be wonderful for sellers if they got to decide how much profit they wanted, but that's not how commerce works. We don't get to decide what we pay for EFE or for anything else. Buyers don't get to name their own price. If we could do that, I'd buy an ice dragon set for 1gc.

with a set price on harvestables harvesters wouldnt be able to overprice their iron, silver or other ore/mineral/flower cause it would be more worthwhile to buy from NPC

How do you propose we set the price on harvestables?

 

buyers do et to name their own price when NPC's set the price for anything, if a manuer chargers 60k for a steel plate while an NPC sells the same steel plate for 50k the buyer can say "no thank you, i rather buy from NPC"

since NPC's stock cant run out it would force manuers to lower their price to 50k or lower, if with the current EFE/binding prices the manuer would end up with a big loss then the manuer would force binding/EFE sellers to lower their price by simply not buying those rare ingreds at a high price.

and im just providing an idea, the setting of prices would have to be done by radu, or maybe a group of players.

 

take Steel Plate as an example

 

Ingreds for a Steel plate:

4 Hydro bars

3 EFE

30 steel bars

5 leather

6 threads

 

if all the ingreds, excluding the EFE were available from an NPC for like 25k all together, and the same NPC would sell Steel Plate for 50k

 

4 hydro bars less than 25k? Imagine the PP party. It is not that simple . There are too many items that need armors / swords to be made, thats why the only solution as i understand it is to increase npc prices. (that is because i dont think Radu is gonna give us like better chances finding/making rare ings )

 

the prices mentioned are just examples, im not saying that should be the exact price on those ingreds.

 

and increasing NPC prices is just being ignorant and ignoring the problem there is, increase NPC prices and you give manuers a reason to increase their prices more, what happens when they increase their prices more? thats right.. NPC will be cheaper again, and then you whine about a NPC price increase again.

what you are suggesting is just moving the problem to another date, a quick fix that wouldnt help much at all and would end up with the same issues again in a week or a month.

 

take a real life example, wall-mart is a big chain of stores making huge profits, why? because they sell cheaper then anyone else.

thats what you should be aiming for, getting the prices lower and lower, when you make things more expensive people dont buy as much, but when its cheap people can buy alot, and if fighters save too much gc cause of that radu can increase breakrate, and with that keeping the manufacturer employed/busy

 

if radu would set those NPC prices on all items sellers of items would be forced to sell at NPC price, or sell lower. it gives the manuer a huge loss but then its up to them to stop buying EFE and bindings for 15k, and force those sellers to lower binding/EFE prices to (just an example) 5k, or 4k each.

 

at the moment a manufacturer sells something like each month? with a loss?

wouldnt you be much happier selling something each day/2 days or week for less gc but still with profit?

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and increasing NPC prices is just being ignorant and ignoring the problem there is, increase NPC prices and you give manuers a reason to increase their prices more, what happens when they increase their prices more? thats right.. NPC will be cheaper again, and then you whine about a NPC price increase again.

what you are suggesting is just moving the problem to another date, a quick fix that wouldnt help much at all and would end up with the same issues again in a week or a month.

 

sorry, but thats wrong.

Why is there something like an exchange rate $ to gc ?

Like Learner showed us with his rostogol stunt, the real price of rosto in game is just determined by the $-price from shop combined with that rate.

And thats true for all rare items that you can buy from the shop.

And the reason why cutlass from NPC is too cheap with 40k is exactly the price of the rare ingredients calculated as stated.

If we raise NPC selling price, the mentioned $-to-gc-ratio WILL NOT CHANGE, because its determined by other factors mainly.

 

regards

Edited by Gilrain

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and increasing NPC prices is just being ignorant and ignoring the problem there is, increase NPC prices and you give manuers a reason to increase their prices more, what happens when they increase their prices more? thats right.. NPC will be cheaper again, and then you whine about a NPC price increase again.

what you are suggesting is just moving the problem to another date, a quick fix that wouldnt help much at all and would end up with the same issues again in a week or a month.

 

sorry, but thats wrong.

Why is there something like an exchange rate $ to gc ?

Like Learner showed us with his rostogol stunt, the real price of rosto in game is just determined by the $-price from shop combined with that rate.

And thats true for all rare items that you can buy from the shop.

And the reason why cutlass from NPC is too cheap with 40k is exactly the price of the rare ingredients calculated as stated.

If we raise NPC selling price, the mentioned $-to-gc-ratio WILL NOT CHANGE, because its determined by other factors mainly.

 

regards

 

its not wrong. there is something like a $ to gc exchange because people need so much gc to buy something that the gc is worth RL $.

raise NPC price and manuers increase price, people need more gc and they buy more gc, increasing the amount of gc you get each $

people take that rate for their rosto/binding selling and prices go through the roof, again

 

your stuck in a vicious circle and the only solution you guys seem to come up with is just staying inside that circle complaining each time you get at the point where things dont sell anymore... and now you reached the limit and suggest to increase prices even more? sounds like a big joke :/

in a working economy providers strive for competition, providers stay competitive by offering goods at lower prices then other sellers..

just use some common sense and realise that you cant get feathers from a frog.. for those of you who dont get that, you cant expect people to pay what they dont have, focus on what they do have to spend and adjust prices according to that, thats when you sell the most, when you offer goods at an affordable rate.

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if all the ingreds, excluding the EFE were available from an NPC for like 25k all together, and the same NPC would sell Steel Plate for 50k

you'd have a set amount of prices on those ingreds, and your end product, it would be up to you how big your profit is depending on how much you want to pay for EFE.

It would be wonderful for sellers if they got to decide how much profit they wanted, but that's not how commerce works. We don't get to decide what we pay for EFE or for anything else. Buyers don't get to name their own price. If we could do that, I'd buy an ice dragon set for 1gc.

with a set price on harvestables harvesters wouldnt be able to overprice their iron, silver or other ore/mineral/flower cause it would be more worthwhile to buy from NPC

How do you propose we set the price on harvestables?

 

buyers do et to name their own price when NPC's set the price for anything, if a manuer chargers 60k for a steel plate while an NPC sells the same steel plate for 50k the buyer can say "no thank you, i rather buy from NPC"

since NPC's stock cant run out it would force manuers to lower their price to 50k or lower, if with the current EFE/binding prices the manuer would end up with a big loss then the manuer would force binding/EFE sellers to lower their price by simply not buying those rare ingreds at a high price.

and im just providing an idea, the setting of prices would have to be done by radu, or maybe a group of players.

 

take Steel Plate as an example

 

Ingreds for a Steel plate:

4 Hydro bars

3 EFE

30 steel bars

5 leather

6 threads

 

if all the ingreds, excluding the EFE were available from an NPC for like 25k all together, and the same NPC would sell Steel Plate for 50k

 

4 hydro bars less than 25k? Imagine the PP party. It is not that simple . There are too many items that need armors / swords to be made, thats why the only solution as i understand it is to increase npc prices. (that is because i dont think Radu is gonna give us like better chances finding/making rare ings )

 

the prices mentioned are just examples, im not saying that should be the exact price on those ingreds.

 

and increasing NPC prices is just being ignorant and ignoring the problem there is, increase NPC prices and you give manuers a reason to increase their prices more, what happens when they increase their prices more? thats right.. NPC will be cheaper again, and then you whine about a NPC price increase again.

what you are suggesting is just moving the problem to another date, a quick fix that wouldnt help much at all and would end up with the same issues again in a week or a month.

 

take a real life example, wall-mart is a big chain of stores making huge profits, why? because they sell cheaper then anyone else.

thats what you should be aiming for, getting the prices lower and lower, when you make things more expensive people dont buy as much, but when its cheap people can buy alot, and if fighters save too much gc cause of that radu can increase breakrate, and with that keeping the manufacturer employed/busy

 

if radu would set those NPC prices on all items sellers of items would be forced to sell at NPC price, or sell lower. it gives the manuer a huge loss but then its up to them to stop buying EFE and bindings for 15k, and force those sellers to lower binding/EFE prices to (just an example) 5k, or 4k each.

 

at the moment a manufacturer sells something like each month? with a loss?

wouldnt you be much happier selling something each day/2 days or week for less gc but still with profit?

 

basically i sell more things than u can imagine , last week i made more than 1 mil gold selling manu things lower than npc with high cost, if its wasnt for recycle day propably i wouldnt get any profit ( not loosing ing). The is a big IF at what u are saying , in small words it is to make demand slow, well it might work at some point, but who tells me that next day prices will not go up again?

And why should i stop making what i like? because npc sells cheaper, prices should change

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the moment everyone stops thinking the 'market can be fixed by players', there may yet be hope ^^.

Edited by Dilly

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its not wrong. there is something like a $ to gc exchange because people need so much gc to buy something that the gc is worth RL $.

 

yes but pls answer the question how the exact rate is determined (like 7k gc per $ for example).

 

raise NPC price and manuers increase price, people need more gc and they buy more gc, increasing the amount of gc you get each $

people take that rate for their rosto/binding selling and prices go through the roof, again

 

no, just compare cutlass to COLs. even now, all COL ingreds together are cheaper than NPC price and that is so for a longer time already. The rare ingredients are distributed from the players to all the things you can make or do with them. So if you buy cutlass cheaper from NPC, then rare ingredients are saved for other items. But even if you start to sell COLs from NPC for 60k tomorrow, the players will have 'too few rare ingredients' - thats intentionally, they ARE MEANT to be rare. That doesnt mean at all that they fly through the roof with their prices. after all their prices is kinda fixed by shop price in real $.

 

 

your stuck in a vicious circle and the only solution you guys seem to come up with is just staying inside that circle complaining each time you get at the point where things dont sell anymore... and now you reached the limit and suggest to increase prices even more? sounds like a big joke :/

in a working economy providers strive for competition, providers stay competitive by offering goods at lower prices then other sellers..

just use some common sense and realise that you cant get feathers from a frog.. for those of you who dont get that, you cant expect people to pay what they dont have, focus on what they do have to spend and adjust prices according to that, thats when you sell the most, when you offer goods at an affordable rate.

 

no, neither the inflation nor the recession is a vicious circle, they just have selfsustaining tendencies. You are just favoring a recession while i prefer adaption to inflation.

 

regards

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This is simply an ad nauseum reiteration of some dude who pulled a rare out of his butt and now wonders why he cant continue to sustain his profit from the sale of said item to duplicate the feat again. Good gosh people. I can guarantee you until all rare armors and weapons are removed from the game the NPC price is not going to go up. Oh and btw there is no rare CoL. Not a thing has been said that hasnt been said many times in previous threads. Necro. FTW.

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