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Sithis

Is it worth it mixing high level manu items

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Hello all

When I started playing the game again I saw that current market prices for manufacturing items like great swords and armor has increased dramatically since I stopped playing the game a year ago.

Checking the market prices most of the players answered me that it is better to buy weapons from NPCs than asking a manuer to mix them for you (providing the ings) or buy them directly.

Nevertheless I decided to start mixing weapons and armor, most of the prices that I sell is close to the npc sell price to players (lower than npc ofc). Also with the new quest (Vixen) that u need to break armor to take the reward, I started manuing some other items than normally noone really uses (like helms steel and titanium).

Take as example the steel helm, npc sells to players for 20kgc and mixing the item u need hydro bar and a binding , way more than 20k, same thing for all great swords

SO why has that happened, why is it better not to mix and buy from npc?

Stones like binding and serpent are extremely expensive same for Enriched essence. I am not going to say that the drop rate of serpent stones or finding stones like enrichment and binding should be increased or that players that have bots always try to get better margin.

What I am asking here , do u think it would be to the game´s best interest that the prices of npc sell to players considering the manu items should get increased so the manuers will start working again ?

 

Notes:

1. In this post i dont really add up the cost of levelling this skill to levels that are acceptable to mix such items

2. Also take under consideration that despite the increasing price of iron ore and coal , hydro ore/bar hasnt increased.

Edited by Xanthus

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SO why has that happened, why is it better not to mix and buy from npc?

Stones like binding and serpent are extremely expensive same for Enriched essence. I am not going to say that the drop rate of serpent stones or finding stones like enrichment and binding should be increased or that players that have bots always try to get better margin.

 

the answer is very simple: NPC prices werent adapted to the ingame inflation.

Solution is quite simple too: just raise many NPC prices...

 

regards

Edited by Gilrain

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That would cause mass inflation in the end since NPCs have infinit gc. If you raise the prices manuers will have more money, stuff will get more expensive, npc prices will have to raise even more, and so on.

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I dont disagree Cycloonx with what u are writing, but is the solution not to make high level items and just buy them from npc?

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Simple solution, beware it's brilliant...

 

 

Stop selling stones/enriched essences at such a high price.

 

Déjà vu anyone?...

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So I should sell my efe for 3k (like they used to be), only for someone to buy it and re-sell it for 10k? High demand and low supply have driven the prices up, no community effort to regulate prices will solve anything, sorry.

 

If you like to imagine that efes are worth 3k (and you have one), and that vial moulds for example are worth 3k (and you want one), go and exchange them with a manuer, and pretend to yourself that you've just done a trade for 3k worth of goods.

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Prices are determined by market forces, supply and demand.

 

Manufacturers would sell more stuff if they could sell for less than the NPC prices and still turn a profit. If the goal is to make manufacturing more profitable, raising NPC prices would work. But I don't know if Radu wants to do that. Buying stuff from NPCs is a goldsink, and he's always looking for ways to get gc out of the game.

 

Consider that the NPC price of ti chains was just lowered to a price no manufacturer could ever match. Now everyone buys their ti chainmail from an NPC for 5k gc, which removes a lot of gc from the game.

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That would cause mass inflation in the end since NPCs have infinit gc. If you raise the prices manuers will have more money, stuff will get more expensive, npc prices will have to raise even more, and so on.

 

how that, i was talking of the _selling_ prices of the NPC, not the buying.

e.g. if Cutlass from NPC cost 60k instead of 40k then you will buy from manuer....

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Prices are determined by market forces, supply and demand.

 

Unfortunately, in the years I've spent in EL I've found that prices for 'rare' items are more often set by 1 or a select few high level/high RL bankaccount people who decide to hog the market for a certain item.

 

I don't get why making an item yourself should be more expensive than buying it from NPC, period. So either something has to be done to make the recipes cheaper (not a chance in hell of that happening), or the NPC sell prices have to rise in order to stimulate people making those items instead of buying them from the NPC.

 

Xanthus' post makes perfect sense to me.

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The "problem" is EL shop. By problem I mean, that there is no regulation of how many/few enriched items will come ingame. And let's be honest to ourselves, EL shop represents a significant portion of enriched essences, binding stones and serpent stones to the game.

 

Hypothetically, if there was no EL shop, Entropy could simply tweak the chances of finding/making rare ingredients every now and then according to items created/vanished. But since gc/$ ratio is not fixed, then the price of those rare items also varies (=increases over time, as we have seen for the last months).

 

I am not saying to disable EL shop, that's quite unthinkable, but rather than that, NPC prices should be regularly tweaked to reflect the market situation and to prevent this happening. NPC should be last/fast resort, not main source for the high-level items. Otherwise, what would be the point of leveling and/or making those items makeable, right?

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What I am asking here , do u think it would be to the game´s best interest that the prices of npc sell to players considering the manu items should get increased so the manuers will start working again ?

no, the NPC price can be 5 million and not a single manuer would be able to sell still.

why? look at players online, and the constant increase in price

I saw that current market prices for manufacturing items like great swords and armor has increased dramatically

prices rise dramaticly and the players arent able to buy them, how come? with everything more expensive and players income staying the same they spend less, in other words: a recession

 

other then that, average of ~250 players online, 200 of them being able to make great swords and up to titanium armor.. supply kinda overruns demand by alot.

so i dont think increasing prices is gonna help, only thing that would help is lowered prices, stop buying ingreds for so much and sell your end product cheaper.

isnt it common sense that its better to sell a cheap end product then to not sell at all at a high price? with doing that you'll have to say no to high ingred prices and only buy those ingreds for cheap.

if enough people do that things will get better, but as people suck at doing such things radu needs to regulate the market.

 

last but not least, most of EL's economic problems are cause of someone not knowing what he's doing, things are available from shop at a high price giving players and excuse to overprice them.

players are free to determine their own prices on anything. that only leads to people outbidding eachother on ingreds with no limit, resulting in what you have now.. dramatic price increase, people stop buying, till prices go down.

 

good solutions would be:

1) Higher breakrates but everything alot more cheap.

2) set NPC prices for everything, dont make them higher or lower, just set an NPC price for every item in game, so people cant overbid eachother and make an end product too expensive

3) lower the price of bindings, EFE, EME, serp stones in the shop so people dont have an excuse to overprice them.

4) or just stop buying at high prices and hope manuers lower their prices. which could take a while as you see

Edited by Infamous

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That would cause mass inflation in the end since NPCs have infinit gc. If you raise the prices manuers will have more money, stuff will get more expensive, npc prices will have to raise even more, and so on.

 

how that, i was talking of the _selling_ prices of the NPC, not the buying.

e.g. if Cutlass from NPC cost 60k instead of 40k then you will buy from manuer....

 

imho its not who sells cheaper (since we all know cutlass used to be 20k from players and 40k from NPC) its the fact that gc making in-game is VERY diffucult and a time-consuming process yet everything is becoming more and more expensive. Not to mention its hard to find a mixer sometimes since alot of players lefted (for many different reasons) example? CoL price increase cuz 1) hydro/rare stone/ess & 2)not alot of able-crafters that are left playing now-a-days. So since stones/ess are hard to find. people are willing to pay more for them; then the over-all cost to make each item increase and since not alot of ppl have the money.. we're stuck with this lovely and long recession. and it really isnt going to fix itself.. EL is the one of those games where its very very diffucult to make gc.. :medieval:

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Making gc kind of requires a bot or fighting for the most part. The EL shop has the ability to bring more rare items ingame than could be tolerated resulting in 0 finds/makes.

 

People may be silly enough to think that you can't buy gc from the EL shop. You can. You just buy a rare ingred and hoard it so that nobody else can get it without paying outrageous prices for them. If there was an npc that would let you trade gc for shop tokens, it would stop the inflation dead in its tracks. It could also accept shop tokens for payment for shop items or gc. Yes, a person could pay a lot of $ for gc this way. They could do it anyways by hoarding rare ingreds. Hopefully, nobody is in too much denial about that fact.

 

Oh yeah. And after that NPC is in place, then we can raise the npc prices.

Edited by nathanstenzel

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Reason for high prices of rare items (stones, enriched essences) is as someone said high demand low supply, and low chance to find/get rare item. Now players use high amount of those rare items, but with low chance to get that item price goes up. But has anyone questioned himself why is for long time low chance to find/get rare item? IMO it's cause there are enough of them in game. But where are those items? Well there are some players that are collecting them for fun and don't care about what's their cost (it's not like i have something against them, it's their choice and no1 should blame them). Solution could be to limit how many of each rare item you can have in storage, eg. 20 bindings, 20 EFE's, 30 ELE's, etc.

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Just a twist.

 

I think a EL-Shop NPC must be added to the game, but he won't sell tokens but trade the Shop Items for tokens. The tokens will be only provided by Radu, as he now provide the Shop items. In this way the tokens will be the only item available from RL Shop.

IMO this could put a limit to the changes of gc/$ rate. After a period of time the price will adjust and inflation will finish.

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Just a twist.

 

I think a EL-Shop NPC must be added to the game, but he won't sell tokens but trade the Shop Items for tokens. The tokens will be only provided by Radu, as he now provide the Shop items. In this way the tokens will be the only item available from RL Shop.

IMO this could put a limit to the changes of gc/$ rate. After a period of time the price will adjust and inflation will finish.

 

 

this "token" will become new currency system , this is a bit dangerous regarding the economy of the game and out of subject

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Just a twist.

 

I think a EL-Shop NPC must be added to the game, but he won't sell tokens but trade the Shop Items for tokens. The tokens will be only provided by Radu, as he now provide the Shop items. In this way the tokens will be the only item available from RL Shop.

IMO this could put a limit to the changes of gc/$ rate. After a period of time the price will adjust and inflation will finish.

 

 

this "token" will become new currency system , this is a bit dangerous regarding the economy of the game and out of subject

 

Bull's Eye.

 

It happened in quite many games I've played. Conquer Online, Perfect World, Fake Perfect World, etc. As soon as the Shop Mall is available and the game provides shopping mall currency it becomes the game currency.

Edited by Vanyel

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SO why has that happened, why is it better not to mix and buy from npc?

Stones like binding and serpent are extremely expensive same for Enriched essence. I am not going to say that the drop rate of serpent stones or finding stones like enrichment and binding should be increased or that players that have bots always try to get better margin.

 

the answer is very simple: NPC prices werent adapted to the ingame inflation.

Solution is quite simple too: just raise many NPC prices...

 

regards

NPC prices should never be increased. That would be very wrong in my opinion. It would be the game supporting inflation. On the contrary, if ings were sold ingame at a lower price, it would make it possible for manuers to sell under 40k and still make profit. Perhaps increase EFE/stone finding chances for new players who are more likely to sell those items than keep them in storage

Edited by hussam

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I have to agree and I said this before in another thread some time ago, that an ingame currency is needed for shop items. Gold coins are great, but they dont reflect a real life value as would a new in game currency.

 

I hear players chat, and say things like, Dam I am low on gc's, lets head over to unoffical and see who is selling some today. The reason gc buyers go to the unoffical forums, is these people can under-cut prices of el-shop for the value that items such as rostogols, thermals, etc . If radu sold from shop only an ingame currecny such as "shop tokens" for 1 dollar each, then people could use 5 shop tokens for a rostogol at npc, or 90 shop tokens for a thermal. This would put the in-game currecny of more value then the gold coin. Players could buy items they liked, without having to wait for a delivery from radu, The in-game currency, would be easily traded between players at rates that players would sort out for themselves. So the gold coin would still have value.

Edited by Wizzy

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On the contrary, if ings were sold ingame at a lower price, it would make it possible for manuers to sell under 40k and still make profit.

I don't think there is a way to force players to sell items at certain prices. It's natural for people to sell things for the highest offered price.

 

Perhaps increase EFE/stone finding chances for new players who are more likely to sell those items than keep them in storage

If you're proposing that Radu increase the chances of finding and creating rare items for players with a low oa level, that will only entice players to constantly create alts.

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Right, that's correct SlimPickins, The alt part didn't cross my mind.

But I'm still against increasing NPC prices for expensive items such as armor and weapons simply for the sake of keeping certain things affordable. If it is a matter of removing items from game to force players to spend more money, then there is always the possibility of adding more money sinks and increasing item breakage.

The problem is not the prices. It is the lack of stability. A cutlass used to be 25kgcs. Now it's better to buy from NPC for 40k. Nevertheless most people would rather spend 40k knowing this is a stable price than for example 33 to 38k in a fluctuating market. Plus there are lots of items like dragon armor, vial molds, alembics that only manufacturers can make so keeping the current NPC price won't undermine the role of manufacturers in the game. A constant NPC price will simply keep things a bit sane.

Edited by hussam

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I have to agree and I said this before in another thread some time ago, that an ingame currency is needed for shop items. Gold coins are great, but they dont reflect a real life value as would a new in game currency.

 

I hear players chat, and say things like, Dam I am low on gc's, lets head over to unoffical and see who is selling some today. The reason gc buyers go to the unoffical forums, is these people can under-cut prices of el-shop for the value that items such as rostogols, thermals, etc . If radu sold from shop only an ingame currecny such as "shop tokens" for 1 dollar each, then people could use 5 shop tokens for a rostogol at npc, or 90 shop tokens for a thermal. This would put the in-game currecny of more value then the gold coin. Players could buy items they liked, without having to wait for a delivery from radu, The in-game currency, would be easily traded between players at rates that players would sort out for themselves. So the gold coin would still have value.

 

As simple as it may sound it is a bit tricky. why? EL runs like lets say with 2 economies

1. the players who buy from shop (to cover their own needs or their bots or just to get some gold)

2. The players that buy gold from other players

 

If the token shop thing gets in the game what will happen?

I think most of the players that have big amount of golds will start looking to buy tokens, so they can sell easier , doing that the gc/$/token will increase due to big demand, as u understand this might be temporaly but enough to sky rocket the prices which will take longer time to decline (but never return to the old levels).

I said before its a bit tricky maybe something else will happen, but i dont thikn it would make prices drop, token seem to be safer "investment" than gold

 

 

---------------------------------------------------

 

at hussam

 

Why dont we remove manu from game and all of the skills and go buy from NPCs then

Edited by Xanthus

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Just a twist.

 

I think a EL-Shop NPC must be added to the game, but he won't sell tokens but trade the Shop Items for tokens. The tokens will be only provided by Radu, as he now provide the Shop items. In this way the tokens will be the only item available from RL Shop.

IMO this could put a limit to the changes of gc/$ rate. After a period of time the price will adjust and inflation will finish.

 

so instead of buying the item directly from radu you buy a token directly from radu to buy your item in-game, how does that make a change?

 

 

 

On the contrary, if ings were sold ingame at a lower price, it would make it possible for manuers to sell under 40k and still make profit.

I don't think there is a way to force players to sell items at certain prices. It's natural for people to sell things for the highest offered price.

 

Perhaps increase EFE/stone finding chances for new players who are more likely to sell those items than keep them in storage

If you're proposing that Radu increase the chances of finding and creating rare items for players with a low oa level, that will only entice players to constantly create alts.

 

it is possible to force players to sel items at certain prices, make NPC's buy/sell those items at a certain price, lets say 7k each.

if someone sells for more the buyer can say no and go to the npc.

 

but then you get over producing, people making tons of items for those magic versions of an armor/sword, then increase breakrate to keep people buying those armors/swords.

with the right price players can keep up replacing their armor without going too poor.

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Why dont we remove manu from game and all of the skills and go buy from NPCs then

I didn't suggest making manuers useless. I suggested people look for a solution to make ings cost less so that manuers can make profit at less that NPC price.

 

We could of course raise NPC prices but are we going to keep raising NPC prices every few months instead of finding a solution to inflation?

Edited by hussam

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