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Hi guys:

 

First at all, my apologies the mistakes in my gramar. I'm Spanish and my english isn't very good. I hope you can understand me.

 

There are some people in game who dont know english and it is a problem. Some part of game like the encyclopedia was translated to other languages. Could we translate the text of NPCs too? When i have to read their long texts in english, it become very hard for me to understand, and i guess for others too.

 

I think that the text of NPCs are in the EL.EXE file. This could be a problem because Radu should accept it and we will have to wait for updates.

Other problem is the space available in the textbox, so translations must adjust at it.

 

I could translate some NPCs with some time, and i hope that other people do it to his/her languages (or mine too). What do you think guys?

 

Thank you very much.

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Hi guys:

 

First at all, my apologies the mistakes in my gramar. I'm Spanish and my english isn't very good. I hope you can understand me.

 

There are some people in game who dont know english and it is a problem. Some part of game like the encyclopedia was translated to other languages. Could we translate the text of NPCs too? When i have to read their long texts in english, it become very hard for me to understand, and i guess for others too.

 

I think that the text of NPCs are in the EL.EXE file. This could be a problem because Radu should accept it and we will have to wait for updates.

Other problem is the space available in the textbox, so translations must adjust at it.

 

I could translate some NPCs with some time, and i hope that other people do it to his/her languages (or mine too). What do you think guys?

 

Thank you very much.

The NPC text is server side and would take significant work to make that multilingual even if the server knew your language preference.

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For the last update, a "copy" option was added to the NPC dialogue window. This option copies the npc text to the clipboard. One reason for adding this was to make it easier for people to use online translations services like Google translate. This was only a small step, but it might help a little.

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Yes i know but when i must read all npc to search the new quest... XD this was the idea for make it. For example a option on Panel Option to select language. But even make files on server with text of npc, you must change some of program (sorry the first post i had help from a friend).

 

And thank you for "copy" :D

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Silly question, but would it be possible to use an online service or some software to do the translations? If it could be configurable to use a user defined website or software, that would pretty much take care of things. Also, later on, we could have the data packets representing the character or a text message contain a language code to use with the translation feature and then all of EL would be easy to understand........even if computer translated text often sounds kind of retarded.

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A smart solution is not modify server, but to use a similar concept than the help system. If exist translation at cliente for this NPC then use it. This be maintained trought CVS like another parts of client and whole community can help.

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A smart solution is not modify server, but to use a similar concept than the help system. If exist translation at cliente for this NPC then use it. This be maintained trought CVS like another parts of client and whole community can help.

If this was available - you would be able to search all NPC texts instantly without having to visit the NPC to check a reference etc :lipssealed:

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A smart solution is not modify server, but to use a similar concept than the help system. If exist translation at cliente for this NPC then use it. This be maintained trought CVS like another parts of client and whole community can help.

If this was available - you would be able to search all NPC texts instantly without having to visit the NPC to check a reference etc :lipssealed:

If this was available, that also gives out too much information about quests and make it hard for changes or additions to quests without a full client update.

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Good idea to make a stringtable only in the client for client-side translations.

I recommend using GNU gettext for this reason, because it has lot of tools supporting the maintaining of multilanguage translations (like BabelFish).

 

note: the .mo and .po files which are used by gettext can be handled separately from the client executable (no needs to recompile for change translations), the files can be synchronized with a normal online update.

Edited by csiga

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Good idea to make a stringtable only in the client for client-side translations.

I recommend using GNU gettext for this reason, because it has lot of tools supporting the maintaining of multilanguage translations (like BabelFish).

 

note: the .mo and .po files which are used by gettext can be handled separately from the client executable (no needs to recompile for change translations), the files can be synchronized with a normal online update.

Not a good solution because this still puts all quest text client side for all to see. If translation should be done in the client, no text can be pretranslated.

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Good idea to make a stringtable only in the client for client-side translations.

I recommend using GNU gettext for this reason, because it has lot of tools supporting the maintaining of multilanguage translations (like BabelFish).

 

note: the .mo and .po files which are used by gettext can be handled separately from the client executable (no needs to recompile for change translations), the files can be synchronized with a normal online update.

Not a good solution because this still puts all quest text client side for all to see. If translation should be done in the client, no text can be pretranslated.

 

 

Not to mention, a lot of meanings and such would be lost via translation since it was written specifically for english. Even with a translation, you could still miss out on quest info because it didn't translate it as it should be read.

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Hi all.

 

A significant number of Spanish beginners leave the game because they don't understand English. A usual question at Spanish channel is 'Where can I do click at NPC Tutorial to do quest?'.

 

Eternal Lands has two software methods to improve this international game. The help system and automatic actualizations.

 

Thinking in a low development cost almost all modifications must be in client program, within next year release.

 

----------------------------------

The proposed modification is:

----------------------------------

- Client received a text from Server about NPC in English.

- Client search a translation in a new folder, similar to help. using the selected language. This translation can be based in phrases matches or indexed if Client has the Id of window and text, but with matches is better imo.

- If no text is found the Client shows the original text, if found it shows the translated text.

 

----------------------------------

Why to do by in this way?

----------------------------------

- Few development cost

- Avoid tricks to the new quest

- Community can do translate effort

 

----------------------------------

Is this necessary?

----------------------------------

In my opinion, yes. We lost at lot of new gamers because it, and not only, much non English people don't do quest because don't understand it.

 

----------------------------------

What about text with no direct translation?

----------------------------------

Always is better have English text, but like we can understand between ourselves, all can be explained, and this more better than don't understand anything.

 

Note: I'm not fan of translate canonical names.

 

Greetings.

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Hi all.

 

A significant number of Spanish beginners leave the game because they don't understand English. A usual question at Spanish channel is 'Where can I do click at NPC Tutorial to do quest?'.

 

Eternal Lands has two software methods to improve this international game. The help system and automatic actualizations.

 

Thinking in a low development cost almost all modifications must be in client program, within next year release.

 

----------------------------------

The proposed modification is:

----------------------------------

- Client received a text from Server about NPC in English.

- Client search a translation in a new folder, similar to help. using the selected language. This translation can be based in phrases matches or indexed if Client has the Id of window and text, but with matches is better imo.

- If no text is found the Client shows the original text, if found it shows the translated text.

 

----------------------------------

Why to do by in this way?

----------------------------------

- Few development cost

- Avoid tricks to the new quest

- Community can do translate effort

 

----------------------------------

Is this necessary?

----------------------------------

In my opinion, yes. We lost at lot of new gamers because it, and not only, much non English people don't do quest because don't understand it.

 

----------------------------------

What about text with no direct translation?

----------------------------------

Always is better have English text, but like we can understand between ourselves, all can be explained, and this more better than don't understand anything.

 

Note: I'm not fan of translate canonical names.

 

Greetings.

We still don't want community translation of Quest information. That leaves either derver side translation or the client doing dynamic translation (and probably caching).

 

What you've outlined though would work for non-quest stuff, but would possible encourage translating too much, which should be avoided.

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Encrypt your client-side string table.

 

Instead of the server sending the string, it sends the string id, decrypt key or seed, and field text for insertion.

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Encrypt your client-side string table.

 

Instead of the server sending the string, it sends the string id, decrypt key or seed, and field text for insertion.

 

As bad or worse as storing the info in plain text (ignoring the update problem which was one argument against client side texts).

The client is open source, so everyone can get the source code. From there, it's very easy to modify the code so that it gives you the seeds (nvm that you would be using an illegal client...). I'd give it a week at most before (a large part of) the encoded strings will be decrypted and posted somewhere. This could give those that don't mind breaking the rules and that are a bit comfortable with programming (and their friends), a big advantage over other players.

 

Note: using a different key for each string wouldn't make a big difference, once the algorithm is known (or the encryption would have to be very strong, which would slow down the client), but would complicate things server side.

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You could maybe compile a list of phrases and word combinations and their translations ...

Then lookup that table.

 

But this involves lot of translation work on client side and does not guarantee an accurate translation.

Could partially solve the "all quest info on client side" issue ...

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Encrypt your client-side string table.

 

Instead of the server sending the string, it sends the string id, decrypt key or seed, and field text for insertion.

 

As bad or worse as storing the info in plain text (ignoring the update problem which was one argument against client side texts).

The client is open source, so everyone can get the source code. From there, it's very easy to modify the code so that it gives you the seeds

If your client has received the seed to decrypt the string, then you can legitimately see the decoded text anyway.

 

The string table would be part of the downloadable game content, to permit updates and new translations. Since it is periodically updated anyway, the encryption seeds would only have a valid lifetime of that release of the string table.

 

You need to decide what weight you give to data security, verses supporting an international player community.

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You could maybe compile a list of phrases and word combinations and their translations ...

Then lookup that table.

 

But this involves lot of translation work on client side and does not guarantee an accurate translation.

Could partially solve the "all quest info on client side" issue ...

 

Most of the dialog lines would lose much of their sense in a literal translation. Quests, and the like, information should be translated with full context. I've seen quite a few games that were completely fu.ked up with a bad and/or literal translation. Luckily, I there was an option of using English dialogs.

 

Heck, I remember problems I had with translation of the game rules into Polish. Even in context I was forced to work around due to lack of similar terms in both languages.

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Encrypt your client-side string table.

 

Instead of the server sending the string, it sends the string id, decrypt key or seed, and field text for insertion.

 

As bad or worse as storing the info in plain text (ignoring the update problem which was one argument against client side texts).

The client is open source, so everyone can get the source code. From there, it's very easy to modify the code so that it gives you the seeds

If your client has received the seed to decrypt the string, then you can legitimately see the decoded text anyway.

 

{snipped}

of course.

 

The point was in the part you didn't quote :) , about the results being posted/shared... This is what would give the 'cheaters' a big advantage. Also, if the same seed was used for several strings (to keep bookkeeping simple), it would give some an advantage.

Edited by revi

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i think the basic question is:

would you prefer that some players post their own translation to their language at some website you cant control or do you prefer to integrate the translation into the EL-client.

 

Look at the wiki, its better info than ency. I'd recommend to USE the community power instead of being afraid. Would you rather attract new players or lose current ones?

 

my 0.02

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i think the basic question is:

would you prefer that some players post their own translation to their language at some website you cant control or do you prefer to integrate the translation into the EL-client.

 

Look at the wiki, its better info than ency. I'd recommend to USE the community power instead of being afraid. Would you rather attract new players or lose current ones?

 

my 0.02

 

There's an additional problem that would require addressing. Who should provide the translation?

 

Make it a single or even a group of players who are enthusiastic enough to spend their time on it and you may end with a text that is neither English or any other language. I've seen some websites in Polish made by enthusiasts and I can say one thing - it was not even close to Polish. I'm afraid it would end the same in the game.

A localisation of a game requires a team of people working over it and only on it. This team should consist of translators, interpreters, correctors and quality checkers. It's a huge project. Can't be handled by just two people. On the other hand, if the game developers gather a capable bunch of people it might turn really good. Maybe it's the time to start thinking about it?

 

5 years ago, when I started playing Eternal Lands this task would be much easier than now. Much more text has been added to the game. Lots of NPCs, lots of quests, etc.

 

Some claimed that making NPCs quest related dialogs available might be used as spoilers. Indeed, it might and it would. My question is, though, so what?

 

Quite many online games I have played provided quest logs with markers (e.g. Perfect World) or quest walkthroughs in ther website (e.g. Conquer Online). Additionally, these games support the community writing walkthroughs.

 

If somebody wants to go through a quest on their own, they will - regardless any spoilers. If somebody is stuck and cannot find the way on their own they know where to find help. Make it part of the website, put google ads in it and you might even get some profits from it. The game should be fun to play. Most of the casual players, like myself, loves to just enjoy playing and find it highly annoying when they are forced to waste their time on struggling with riddles possible to understand only for the person who wrote the quest and, though not always, native speakers (which is often the case in Eternal Lands).

 

Additionally, the problems with game localisation might be solved with providing a manual, guides and walkthroughs in national languages instead.

 

Side note: I frequently get the impression quests in EL have been written to amuse their authors with their own wit and not to provide fun for the players. It seems to be a kind of a mental masturbation.

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Hi, it looks that there isn't an easy solution, so i thought that:

 

A forum would be created to translate the NPCs. The terms will be put by mod. If you would give us the npc's text it's better, but we can find it on game... so i think there aren't a secret :). How give us the text you decide. If you don't want that text of NPC be on forum, we can use it to resolve doubt. Besides if there are problem with translate as someone said it would be correct. Always you would see the english text.

 

I think there are some people who want help to translate, so make a forum to it would be a good solucion...

 

Thank you everybody.

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The point was in the part you didn't quote :) , about the results being posted/shared... This is what would give the 'cheaters' a big advantage. Also, if the same seed was used for several strings (to keep bookkeeping simple), it would give some an advantage.

To acquire a complete decrypted set of strings somebody would have to play through the quest, at which point they can just publish a quest walk-through as already happens.

 

But even if you had a decrypted string table - what information does it give you? You don't know the context in which the string would appear in the game - where? from whom? or in what situation? Variable or non-translatable elements (or proper names[1]) wouldn't appear in the strings in the string table - but be included in the server message as substitution tokens (cf. printf format string).

 

A separate encryption seed would be used for each string. I'd use a RNG which generates an uncorrelated bit stream, and XOR the stream with the string to encrypt and decrypt. This is a low cost operation (negligible compared to the other operations that the client has to do). The encrypted string is then a series of uncorrelated bits, which does not contain any information other than its length (which can be obscurated by padding).

 

 

[1] Proper names sent as substitution tokens could still be translated separately using another translation map - in fact, if this was intended, then in-game names (of items, NPCs, places, etc) could be sent as an index rather than a string.

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