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Wizzy

Chain Armors

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Rangers are becoming a force in pk these days :pickaxe:

 

However, there is little protection from them, and with max AP they do fast damage, Hard to flee a fight to chase them, as people are chasing you too. etc

 

My Idea is to give some protection from bolts and arrows with the existing chain armors in game.

 

 

It makes more sense that a chain armor would stop an arrow easier then a metal plate.

 

 

 

Comments?

 

Wiz

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I think it's the other way around, that plate mail would likely stop an arrow but chain mail would not. Even plate at close range would not stop cross bow bolts. It would probably depend on the arrow head. Also even if the chain mail stopped the arrow, there might be enough blunt force trauma to still break bones. Reality doesn't need to have any bearing on EL though. :pickaxe:

 

I like the idea of having some form of protection against rangers however, and the concept that you'd sacrifice protection from other attacks by wearing say chain mail or w/e to protect against range attacks.

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This does sound right. Plate armor would be thinner at any specific spot while chain would be thin at some spots, but thicker at other spots. The thickness and the ability to give in to the momentum of the arrow a little would be what would protect the person. It could be compared to bullets and kevlar armor. Of course, from my days of playing D&D and AD&D, I know that as an archer gets better, they have a better chance of finding the weak spots in any sort of armor including plate and chain armors. Also from AD&D, I know that some armor protects against blunt, piercing or slicing weapons more than others.

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I think it's the other way around, that plate mail would likely stop an arrow but chain mail would not. Even plate at close range would not stop cross bow bolts. It would probably depend on the arrow head. Also even if the chain mail stopped the arrow, there might be enough blunt force trauma to still break bones. Reality doesn't need to have any bearing on EL though. :pickaxe:

 

I like the idea of having some form of protection against rangers however, and the concept that you'd sacrifice protection from other attacks by wearing say chain mail or w/e to protect against range attacks.

 

Not positive, since never really owning armor

 

 

But I remember a show testing these things on discovery channel once. And, indeed the idea is to sacrifice protection from mele fighters to protect against rangers

Edited by Wizzy

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Mongolians used silk tunics under their chainmail to help stop arrows. (The silk went in with the wound so it would be easier to extract later). Of course, this is assuming you only have one arrow poking out of you.

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Mongolians used silk tunics under their chainmail to help stop arrows. (The silk went in with the wound so it would be easier to extract later). Of course, this is assuming you only have one arrow poking out of you.

 

 

I have heard this, would you then suggest robes add more protection? I think melee fighters would be more comfortable in tit chains?

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this was discussed a while ago before ranging was even implemented iirc, for a while chain armors had missile protection. (I think it ended up being lumped in with armor but I'm not sure).

 

This (very old) thread is what i was thinking of, it has a lot of info about what kind of armor should protect against what.

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Chainmail would always have some cloth or leather or something under it. Otherwise, the chainmail would scratch you up.f

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And now starts complaining about rangers and their advantage. So maybe let us design "uber soldat newbie armor" that will help to protect you from high a/d characters? Why not? Hell, it is very hard to fight with someone that has 150 a/d! I have another idea, let’s create a spell that will give you 100% protection against arrows? Why not? Let’s make ranging money sink only! Hurray for such brilliant ideas! :)

 

EDIT:

Sorry for being sarcastic, but it pisses me off when I see this kind of complaining. I know that ranging could be annoying for “Old Pr0” players, that were training years to have so high A/D. But our game is evolving. Rangers are finally becoming useful, even needed! Why do you want to destroy them? Still if it goes 1 vs 1 ranger will lose. I also know that it is not funny to be forced by “noob” to dis and run. But times when fighters with high A/D could take 5 lower lvl opponents on chest are over! Yes, finally are over! If you want to be king on PK, then you will have to be a team player! And thank God for this!

Edited by Devnul

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And now starts complaining about rangers and their advantage. So maybe let us design "uber soldat newbie armor" that will help to protect you from high a/d characters? Why not? Hell, it is very hard to fight with someone that has 150 a/d! I have another idea, let’s create a spell that will give you 100% protection against arrows? Why not? Let’s make ranging money sink only! Hurray for such brilliant ideas! :)

 

EDIT:

Sorry for being sarcastic, but it pisses me off when I see this kind of complaining. I know that ranging could be annoying for “Old Pr0” players, that were training years to have so high A/D. But our game is evolving. Rangers are finally becoming useful, even needed! Why do you want to destroy them? Still if it goes 1 vs 1 ranger will lose. I also know that it is not funny to be forced by “noob” to dis and run. But times when fighters with high A/D could take 5 lower lvl opponents on chest are over! Yes, finally are over! If you want to be king on PK, then you will have to be a team player! And thank God for this!

 

Think you missed then point here

 

No one is asking for 100% protection against rangers like the 100% protection from mages I face every day lol IE Magic immunity spell

 

The suggestion is to have an Inferior chain armor lower some of the damage from arrows/ bolts (you do understand this is a comprimise as chain armors give very little p[rotection against swords like a thermal serp right?)

 

No one is suggesting a spell to repel all arrows. Just a suggestion to make a choice in armor..Do I wear my tit plate and fight playerx with thermal, or is it ebul rangers in there so I wear my tit chain armor...

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And now starts complaining about rangers and their advantage. So maybe let us design "uber soldat newbie armor" that will help to protect you from high a/d characters? Why not? Hell, it is very hard to fight with someone that has 150 a/d! I have another idea, let’s create a spell that will give you 100% protection against arrows? Why not? Let’s make ranging money sink only! Hurray for such brilliant ideas! :)

 

EDIT:

Sorry for being sarcastic, but it pisses me off when I see this kind of complaining. I know that ranging could be annoying for “Old Pr0” players, that were training years to have so high A/D. But our game is evolving. Rangers are finally becoming useful, even needed! Why do you want to destroy them? Still if it goes 1 vs 1 ranger will lose. I also know that it is not funny to be forced by “noob” to dis and run. But times when fighters with high A/D could take 5 lower lvl opponents on chest are over! Yes, finally are over! If you want to be king on PK, then you will have to be a team player! And thank God for this!

 

This is not about destroy an skill like ranging... this is about some balance. Such as a low magic level spell like Magic Protection had increased the protection against the "overpowered" harm some months ago (http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=51121)

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this was discussed a while ago before ranging was even implemented iirc, for a while chain armors had missile protection. (I think it ended up being lumped in with armor but I'm not sure).

 

This (very old) thread is what i was thinking of, it has a lot of info about what kind of armor should protect against what.

And one important quote from there....

 

Because the chainmail is specifically designed to protect against missiles, while the plate mail isn't designed for that.

After reading that thread ever so briefly, it sounds like they were planning on adding archery for some time and are just now implementing it and only removed missile protection from it when they did because too many people were asking about it. That probably got quite annoying just like a number of other topics in the forums.

 

So, yeah, now we can proceed with the original plans for protection against missile damage and perhaps make more of a market for chainmail.

 

It is hard to tell if a person going through a pk map will want to worry about the archers who would have more trouble penetrating chainmail or monsters that would have more trouble penetrating platemail.

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It is hard to tell if a person going through a pk map will want to worry about the archers who would have more trouble penetrating chainmail or monsters that would have more trouble penetrating platemail.

 

I'd wager 90% of PKers have a combat level that negates this concern.

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Chainmails offering better damage reduction VS missiles sounds good.

You'd sacrifice significant melee armor bonus to gain ranging armor bonus... nice balance.

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Chainmails offering better damage reduction VS missiles sounds good.

You'd sacrifice significant melee armor bonus to gain ranging armor bonus... nice balance.

Agreed.

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It is hard to tell if a person going through a pk map will want to worry about the archers who would have more trouble penetrating chainmail or monsters that would have more trouble penetrating platemail.

 

I'd wager 90% of PKers have a combat level that negates this concern.

Some PKers can be real monsters at times too. :bow_arrow:

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I understand it is all about balance, but why do you think it is not balanced at the moment? I think it is perfect, like I said 1vs1 ranger doesn’t stand a chance, but with support they own the place! If you compare it to the realistic battle, I think that it would look the same if someone fights hand to hand and be shoot in his back he will lose 60HP for sure :icon13:

 

If we talk about realism, then please keep in mind that chainmail was able to stop slashes, not thrust or arrows. So I do not think that upgrading chainmail with missile protection and plate mail not is realistic.

The best option will be making a shield (or upgrade existing ones) with missile protection. After all it was the shield that was used by knights to cover from arrows. Maybe it is good idea to follow this path? Don’t you think?

 

Anyway, I do trust our game developers and believe that balance will be kept. I also think that it is already (balance) on good level.

 

PS. If we want to follow the subject of realism, then we need to think about armor pricing attributes of crossbow and bow. The difference between these two was huge!

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And one important quote from there....
Because the chainmail is specifically designed to protect against missiles, while the plate mail isn't designed for that.
...except that statement has it the wrong way around, as I explained later in that thread.

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I understand it is all about balance, but why do you think it is not balanced at the moment? I think it is perfect, like I said 1vs1 ranger doesn’t stand a chance, but with support they own the place! If you compare it to the realistic battle, I think that it would look the same if someone fights hand to hand and be shoot in his back he will lose 60HP for sure :icon13:

 

If we talk about realism, then please keep in mind that chainmail was able to stop slashes, not thrust or arrows. So I do not think that upgrading chainmail with missile protection and plate mail not is realistic.

The best option will be making a shield (or upgrade existing ones) with missile protection. After all it was the shield that was used by knights to cover from arrows. Maybe it is good idea to follow this path? Don’t you think?

 

Anyway, I do trust our game developers and believe that balance will be kept. I also think that it is already (balance) on good level.

 

PS. If we want to follow the subject of realism, then we need to think about armor pricing attributes of crossbow and bow. The difference between these two was huge!

 

Yes, TPTR is very realistic too !!

 

I'm wondering how many pk arrows you have shot in PK or how many times you been killed by them.

 

1 vs 1 ranger doesnt stand an chance ??? wrong! an pr0 PK ranger has an good chance against an melee fighter.

 

I have killed alot of players in pk by ranging , alone and with an tank. And also been killed enough times by rangers in PK.

And i can tell you its not balanced.

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1 vs 1 ranger doesnt stand an chance ??? wrong! an pr0 PK ranger has an good chance against an melee fighter.

 

You mean Pr0 PK ranger vs newbie melee fighter I assume? Nevertheless, please post some arguments.

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I understand it is all about balance, but why do you think it is not balanced at the moment? I think it is perfect, like I said 1vs1 ranger doesn’t stand a chance, but with support they own the place! If you compare it to the realistic battle, I think that it would look the same if someone fights hand to hand and be shoot in his back he will lose 60HP for sure :icon13:

 

If we talk about realism, then please keep in mind that chainmail was able to stop slashes, not thrust or arrows. So I do not think that upgrading chainmail with missile protection and plate mail not is realistic.

The best option will be making a shield (or upgrade existing ones) with missile protection. After all it was the shield that was used by knights to cover from arrows. Maybe it is good idea to follow this path? Don’t you think?

 

Anyway, I do trust our game developers and believe that balance will be kept. I also think that it is already (balance) on good level.

 

PS. If we want to follow the subject of realism, then we need to think about armor pricing attributes of crossbow and bow. The difference between these two was huge!

 

Yes, TPTR is very realistic too !!

 

I'm wondering how many pk arrows you have shot in PK or how many times you been killed by them.

 

1 vs 1 ranger doesnt stand an chance ??? wrong! an pr0 PK ranger has an good chance against an melee fighter.

 

I have killed alot of players in pk by ranging , alone and with an tank. And also been killed enough times by rangers in PK.

And i can tell you its not balanced.

 

Your right, it is slightly over powered, rangers can deal a lot of fast damage damage of which there is no protection, no spell or item that can help you. Mages can be overpowered also, but one cast of Magic Immunity gives you 90 seconds full protection.. (yes there are wards but these are not 100% either and are not easy to get people to walk towards them, and they also remove the placers immunity too)

 

Having the shields offer missle protection is also a good idea. Though we have all these un-used tit chains in game, and maybe even dragon scale chains could be made in the future?

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It is hard to tell if a person going through a pk map will want to worry about the archers who would have more trouble penetrating chainmail or monsters that would have more trouble penetrating platemail.

 

I'd wager 90% of PKers have a combat level that negates this concern.

 

Except for the fact that chainmaille is pretty bad against arrows & bolts, particularly when outfitted with a bodkin point. It was light, flexible, and protected against slashes as well as stabs; however, it basically turned a sword into a steel club, so a gambeson or aketon (basically, our padded leather armour top) was worn underneath. Also, properly made chainmaille doesn't really scratch the skin (I know this from personal experience), but given that it was always worn with at least something underneath, it's a bit of a non-issue.

 

Plate armour was much thicker, giving better defense against missiles as well as slash/cut/blunt trauma, but it was worn at the cost of mobility (penalty to dex?). An arming jacket (like a gambeson, but not intended to be worn without armour, as a gambeson might be) may have been worn under the plate armour for both comfort and as a mounting point for various pieces of the harness. Plate basically dominated the field until the advent of firearms; of course, point blank range from a properly drawn longbow could pierce plate.

 

Now, there has been research into multilayered textile armour, such as silk armour, as possibly providing better protection against arrows/projectiles. Perhaps, instead of reworking the existing chainmaille into something that just doesn't make sense, a new anti-arrow textile armour would be a good way to go? This could be a mid-to-high-end tailor item that protects against piercing but not slash/cut/blunt damage. Switching to this would allow a pk-er better protection as they rush an archer's position. Alternatively, if it's possible to modify the slots to permit two torso armours (one textile/padded, one metal, of course), one could wear both (again at a penalty to co-ordination/dex/whatever - believe me, your ability to move is substantially reduced when you have two or more layers of armour on).

 

This armour wouldn't, of course, protect against critical to hit, the analogue of an experienced archer finding a weak spot in the plate/whatever armour is worn.

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Alternatively, if it's possible to modify the slots to permit two torso armours (one textile/padded, one metal, of course), one could wear both (again at a penalty to co-ordination/dex/whatever - believe me, your ability to move is substantially reduced when you have two or more layers of armour on).

Perhaps instead of allowing two torso armors to be worn together, use the tailoring or crafting skill to combine two types of armor. Textile armor could be combined with chain mail to produce an armor that protects against both arrows and melee weapons. Of course, there would need to be appropriate penalties, such as reduced dexterity.

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i agree that there should be some kind of protection on armor for arrows/bolts, but cant say chain or steel plate would be better, we are playing a game where gnomes/orcans/half-dragon people are slashing at each other with swords, yet we have bombs? bring in actual guns, then we can go will more realism :)

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