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hey I also remember a couple years back the mod team would put global anouncements out with links to some MMO review site voting system and players would open the webpage and vote for EL as this months top game

 

that would definately have been noticed back then by new players looking at top lists. would be a good way to get more attention again , I forgot the name of that particular website tho

 

*edit* sometimes editing is just un necessary

#Message from radu: Guys, how about voting for EL on http://www.mpogd.com/ ? It takes only a minute or so, and if half of us vote, we'd be in top 5 today.

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There has been huge player loss during couple last years especially among fighters. I think fighters are the biggest source of income to radu, since they are buying rostos and weapons etc. and the manuers who make st00f for them are buying bindings etc. from shop. So IMO their opinions should be listened more and try to develop the game to right direction. Also most of people who are starting the game wants to become a pr0 fighter (most mmorpg's are emphased on fighting). Especially at the beginning, fighting isn't really rewarding. Newbies can't really pk since lot stronger fighters rule the DPA's and also PvE is somehow boring at the beginning.

 

So IMO there should be more fighting quests that tells about fighting mechanics and how to become a fighter / ranger / mage etc. They shouldn't be like "kill 300 rabbits and then come back to get 1k a/d exp", but learning how attributes affect your build etc. Maybe making some kind of "minigames" where newbie gets 48/48 r/w and (s)he should harm some mobs to death etc. Then get some mag exp as reward.

 

So practically what I'm trying to say, is that we should get some unique fighting quests in EL. Not like "go there, talk to that npc, kill 100 rabbits" etc. Especially to newbies, but also to higher lvl people.

Many players pursue fighting. Whether a CoL is 60k, 80k, or 100k, a fighter will likely still buy one. A top Crafter or Manufacturer may have more insight and a less biased view of supply, demand, and the market in general than one of many fighters, trying to dump monster drops for a quick sale. To say a player's opinion should be weighed more heavily because of the skills s/he chooses to pursue is rather ignorant.

I didn't really mean their opinions should be weighed more heavily compared to other skills. I just mean there sure is some problem in fighting because many top fighters have been quitting during short period. But as I said, fighting should be bit more rewarding and training should have some more point instead of "you're able to kill bit strongers monsters now, yay!" while you get new lvls. Yes instances were good addition, but there should be something to do for lower lvl people too and generally more things to do with your a/d, magic or ranging skills.

 

People should feel like they're protecting Eternal Lands from evil monsters, not like I just grind the monsters to get moar lvls and some drops. Especially for newbies it might be hard to understand what for are they fighting. Invasions are good way to get some atmosphere, but really there isn't anything palpable to protect.

 

Defending instances would be fun, where you really have to keep your position and not let the monsters kill the v.i.p or attack the city. Read more from mazes -thread ->

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i know i probably sound like the biggest pervert in the world but it's just logic.. what attracts players (if i read the first couple of posts right, they're trying to attract more) is plain and simply put; a little bit of sex appeal.

Even when they don't sit on their mixing bag, it looks like EL characters are wearing diapers when they sit. I think it has to do with the position of the hip joints or something like that. Adjustments in this area would probably make things look a bit better.

 

Perhaps when we sit on a bag, there can be an animation/emote to pick up the bag and sit it on our laps. That would help some with the sex appeal and looks of the game too, I am sure. No more mixer bag gut that way.

 

As for discussions about Korrode, at one time, I kind of hated him once and then I debated with him and then I got to respect our differences of opinion. He does actually contribute to this game on a number of topics, a/d training, the programming section of the forum (although I think rarely in actual code) and some a/d tutorials to make a/d players happier. While I think he comes off as a bit rude or selfish at times too, oh well. We all have our issues in here and bickering over each other's issues won't get a single damned thing done about improving the game. While his using EL images is a no no, at least he does contribute to this game.

 

More importantly:

We need to acknowledge people's contributions a little more around here, in my opinion. It might help a few people feel better and more appreciated in the game. Moral can be a battle for any group or organization and EL's player base is no different. On the topic of EL moral, perhaps a poll would be useful to see what parts of EL, EL forums, EL client, etc make them happy or sad.

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just a thought, what if we created a new window in game,

 

In this window we have a list of vote links to vote for Eternal Lands on the top mmorpg site.

 

then may be have it so a player must vote for each site in the window

 

now we could do this per day, 3 days in a row or a week strait. (depending on flow of reward)

 

Then if the player voted for each site, each day in a row required, without missing, they receive the reward

 

I would suggest the reward be a random stone placed in player inventory or sto (with in choice of stones radu would choose of course)

Thus is reward is a random stone in inventory This would also vary on how many days required to receive.

 

Just a thought, may move us up the lvls in our placement in the mmorpg list

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just a thought, what if we created a new window in game,

 

In this window we have a list of vote links to vote for Eternal Lands on the top mmorpg site.

 

then may be have it so a player must vote for each site in the window

 

now we could do this per day, 3 days in a row or a week strait. (depending on flow of reward)

 

Then if the player voted for each site, each day in a row required, without missing, they receive the reward

 

I would suggest the reward be a random stone placed in player inventory or sto (with in choice of stones radu would choose of course)

Thus is reward is a random stone in inventory This would also vary on how many days required to receive.

 

Just a thought, may move us up the lvls in our placement in the mmorpg list

Bought votes = Corruption

Influencing a person's chance to vote is not bad, but influencing which direction they vote is just wrong.

What is worse, if a game site thought that a game was trying to buy votes from people, that would be massively bad publicity.

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We can't forget this site either. Evidently, someone from Yugo posted the original post a long time ago.

http://happypenguin.org/show?Eternal Lands

I made the most recent posts myself.

Linux compatible game site rule!

Edited by nathanstenzel

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Bought votes = Corruption

Influencing a person's chance to vote is not bad, but influencing which direction they vote is just wrong.

What is worse, if a game site thought that a game was trying to buy votes from people, that would be massively bad publicity.

 

I wasn't intending to say you have to vote for the game.

 

could put a sublink to choose to vote for EL or not vote. And either choice would give you credit just for the participation.

 

I didn't mean that you had to vote for EL sorry for the misunderstanding.

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I dont think influencing peoples votes is wrong anyway :P Lobbyists spend billions of dollars making sure people vote a certain way, and they are influencing the politicians not even the lowly voters so corruption in voting for an online game is water off a ducks back if you look at the real world for 5 minutes :pickaxe:

 

Anyway back on topic some brainstorming ideas for spreading EL word :

 

Mailing out Car Stickers, cost involved is production of stickers and mail costs, but if people stick them somewhere its advertising in RL not just online which is hit and miss chance of finding something

 

Every idea ive got requires some cash investment, so ...

 

Put together a package to send to Gaming Magazines, Linux User Magazines etc , and mail out those damn intro packages asking for the magazine to give you a break and publish your material

I remember when the free EL CD was in some Euro mag and literally I think thats the most users ever online at one time if you look at the Stats Page or I might be wrong idk :P

 

You have the nice banners allready mad ein artwork section of forums well make people aware of this and get them to stick the banner on thier own webpages or social networking sites , you have that tool allready do some sort of promotion of yourselves using these nice banner add's

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Put together a package to send to Gaming Magazines, Linux User Magazines etc , and mail out those damn intro packages asking for the magazine to give you a break and publish your material

I remember when the free EL CD was in some Euro mag and literally I think thats the most users ever online at one time if you look at the Stats Page or I might be wrong idk :P

A Linux mag mentioning Eternal Lands is how I found the game. I agree. It is almost time for EL to be in a Linux magazine again. We should wait till we have the next client update and then make sure it happens. Why wait? Because after this next client release is out and things are stable again, the game will look alot cooler.

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I suggest we use forum "sticky's" so that new players can find helpful/useful information easily from veteran players. Players and Moderators would reply as to which posts would fall into that category. The sticky'd thread(s) ofc would always be at top of the following threads of categoried topics. I.E. Korrode's Combat Skills is a wonderful guide and has had many praises and therefore a great example of a topic/thread to be "sticky'd" in its category/topic. Many questions get asked about many phases of the game by newcomers of EL (skills,leveling,etc..) lets add more useful information that is easily accessible to the forums from veteran players for newcomers. They would be less likely to get discouraged and quit if we had some sticky'd guidance to offer on forums :medieval:

Edited by Deopolis

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I suggest we use forum "sticky's" so that new players can find helpful/useful information easily from veteran players. Players and Moderators would reply as to which posts would fall into that category. The sticky'd thread(s) ofc would always be at top of the following threads of categoried topics. I.E. Korrode's Combat Skills is a wonderful guide and has had many praises and therefore a great example of a topic/thread to be "sticky'd" in its category/topic. Many questions get asked about many phases of the game by newcomers of EL (skills,leveling,etc..) lets add more useful information that is easily accessible to the forums from veteran players for newcomers. They would be less likely to get discouraged and quit if we had some sticky'd guidance to offer on forums :medieval:

 

 

Umm like how the EL wiki is a sticky in the help forum and how there is a whole forum called 'skills'?

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I suggest we use forum "sticky's" so that new players can find helpful/useful information easily from veteran players. Players and Moderators would reply as to which posts would fall into that category. The sticky'd thread(s) ofc would always be at top of the following threads of categoried topics. I.E. Korrode's Combat Skills is a wonderful guide and has had many praises and therefore a great example of a topic/thread to be "sticky'd" in its category/topic. Many questions get asked about many phases of the game by newcomers of EL (skills,leveling,etc..) lets add more useful information that is easily accessible to the forums from veteran players for newcomers. They would be less likely to get discouraged and quit if we had some sticky'd guidance to offer on forums :pickaxe:

 

 

Umm like how the EL wiki is a sticky in the help forum and how there is a whole forum called 'skills'?

 

Yes the wiki is sticky'd in help forum,in "skills" such as "combat" I seen a couple/few posts that would be good/useful information to newcomers that could be put on the first page (at the top) rather than in pages 2 or 3. Atm only monster a/d is pinned there. Just sayin more information/advice the better,especially when it is easy to find, when you are a newbie. Many good ideas here on this topic :pickaxe:

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well i hate runescape its not a very good game but there starting process is excelent maybe if we have a tutorial where they start and take steps to learn every skill and its capabilities maybe we would have a better chance of attracting them instead of throwing them in with nothing to do im sure we can make a tutorial for them it wont be hard and it will be worth it

 

 

 

Great idea..I wonder why Radu didnt make a tutorial npc, or have some quests

 

Oh Wiat :)

 

actually, i think i know what he means. isla prima isnt really good with new players... bcus people of all levels can go there. go start a new character in runescape... you are on a little island, and you have to do certain tasks b4 you can go to the next. This would be a great place where people could learn the basics of the fame quickly. would be great if something like this was made. have a "task" where you have to make FE, and everything is all right next to each other ect. ect. then, once all of the tasks are completed, they are teleported to where the new characters start out now. make it so that you cant log into any channels but the first one to get help. this is the only real problem that i had when i first started eternal lands, you just kinda jump into the world and told to "have fun" :)

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actually, i think i know what he means. isla prima isnt really good with new players... bcus people of all levels can go there. go start a new character in runescape... you are on a little island, and you have to do certain tasks b4 you can go to the next. This would be a great place where people could learn the basics of the fame quickly. would be great if something like this was made. have a "task" where you have to make FE, and everything is all right next to each other ect. ect. then, once all of the tasks are completed, they are teleported to where the new characters start out now. make it so that you cant log into any channels but the first one to get help. this is the only real problem that i had when i first started eternal lands, you just kinda jump into the world and told to "have fun" :)

Some new players have technical problems, like not being able to walk, or to interact with objects and NPC's. These can be easily fixed with a couple of clicks on the options menu, but if there are no knowledgeable players around to help out, these players would simply leave.

 

An improved atmosphere for new players would certainly be helpful (rather than a flock of disgruntled players around the campfire, as eluded to by one of the new IP NPC's.) It is critical not to overlook the importance of human interaction, though a tutorial system which would more intuitively answer some newbie FAQ's could be nice as well.

 

I'd imagine some more insightful brainstorming for improvements on this topic can be accomplished by players spending some time on Isla Prima by the Tutorial NPC and beam, just seeing actual new players and the questions they have.

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Copy/paste from my own post in the daily quest thread because I think this idea will be helpful to new players

 

Just did my 1st daily. got kane and the rats and 12k att and 16k def. not bad for a few mins critter kicking smile.gif next time i get the rats maybe i'll range them

 

Edit: Just finished my alts first daily. some nice xp again smile.gif

 

I'd like to suggest an NPC on IP that gives ultra noob versions of this quest with the animals found on IP untill OA lvl 20 (or something close like that). That way real new players can have the fun and advantage of a few dailys before they have to find thier way out to Haidir in Tirnwood. I think sometimes being such an open ended game can be a little 'scary' for new players at first so it would give true new players small goals while they are learning ALLLLL the stuff that el has to offer. The gc will help get them started off a little better and the xp would help with the novac quest. It might be a good idea to also consider the reward being things like a few vials or a few wine, maybe a M&P. Stuff that is a little tougher for new players to get hold of. Once the player hits the determined OA they are instructed to go find Haidir.

 

I think its important for new players to learn the game and how they personally have fun in it for themselves rather then finding some guide to whatever skill and following it to the letter. Quests that help them learn while giving goals is a good way to accomplish this. Some of the guides out there are great info, but is it the right way for everyone? Too many players have started and been told the 'best' ways to gain the max xp and gc per hour, then comes the grind and the burn out. Maybe it doesn't happen to all, but it happens a lot. Gnny said it pretty well already

a tutorial system which would more intuitively answer some newbie FAQ's could be nice as well.
Edited by Nova

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good idea nova, that would definetaly help out with getting to know the game and such

 

if we could get this "island" for nubies done, i think it would really help out eternal lands. we could make it so that newbies start out at 7/7 a/d, or whatever, and they cant level past level 10 or something. there would be a quest for each kind of skill, either the NPC would give them the items for it or you would have to harvest them nearby on the map. once they have finished all of the quests that would talk to an NPC and they would be telied into IP with a new character (same name, but reset stats) to start talking to other players, and this could be where nova's quest could come in :)

 

if workers is the problem, im sure some people can volunteer for writing the NPC's/quests, and im decent at making maps (made some for QEL server), so i would volunteer for that.

 

What we need to work on is getting new players to stay, THEN we can brainwash them into staying ^^

Edited by ChrisC

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I remember spamming some free site with mmorpgs ranking (around 5 years ago, or so). I doubt it ever paid off. Advertising is a bitch. You need to pay a lot to make it work.

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Over the years, I've gotten numerous people to try EL. Plenty stuck around for a while. Plenty also tried the game for about a week and quit. In the end, all of them quit after a period. While many had stated positive things about Eternal-Lands, there were more negative opinions shared about their experience of Eternal-Lands.

In terms of the positives:

 

1. The artwork is pretty nice.

 

2. The chat system in EL is easy is well-made and easy to use.

The negative aspects:

 

1. The community seems dead/apprehensive

 

Eternal-Lands rarely has a large influx of new players dropping in next to the wraith together, thus many of these newbies do not see many players upon beginning the game. They continue to walk around Isla Prima, rarely bumping into anyone conversing in local chat. The beam is also relatively void of any local chatting. Occasionally, a person from channel 20 will stir up a short conversation about something, but that is about it. Players typically do not hear much local chat until they venture to other map areas, such as storage's and high-populated spawns. I am not sure about the average player, but these people found this extremely off-putting and I can see why. While Isla Prima does not have to be full of constant spam, some dialog would be nice to make the game seem more active.

 

These players also found some of the channels to be somewhat apprehensive of their presence - Channel 1 and Channel 3 in particular. While both channels have specific rules in place to combat the threat of spam for obvious reasons, along with specific rules (No quest help in channel 1, Limit on time before repost of buy/sell declaration in channel 3, No chatting of terms of deal between parties in channel 3), many of these players felt as if they were being verbally crucified, or talked down to in a condescending manner to put it bluntly, for violating these chat rules they claimed to have no idea about. These players tend to end up Channel 20, confused as to why they were sent there. (Off topic, but many players who have actually visited channel 20 tend to have a positive view of the channel. Chat is kept relatively civil, though fun is had by everyone at times. All types of help is given from quest help, to technical help. Even homework help is given. Quite a bit of players refer to Channel 20 as the "Technical Support Channel" for this very reason.) A revision of how channels are ran could possibly benefit the experience of all players.

 

2. The game is just not fun. <--The short version of many opinions given.

 

A. The combat system is odd.

 

People can argue about this until the end of time, but the truth is that combat is the cornerstone of Eternal-Lands. Every skill revolves around it in one way or another. Players I have talked to have found combat in Eternal-Lands to be odd in how it works. The first instinct of any new player is to use a weapon in combat upon obtaining one. The issue is that using a weapon results in less experience. In my personal experience, along with those who I have spoken to, new players tend to find this off-putting and sometimes frustrating. Some have the view that it takes quite a bit of time to get their first weapon and set of armor, and find it odd that it makes the leveling process more difficult. This feeds into the next idea:

 

B. Losing my newly obtained weapon and armor in a matter of minutes is frustrating!

 

This has been stated many times on the forum. A quick forum search of anything related to this will bring up quite a bit of threads on this issue. Many of these players shared the view that the cost of death is hard-hitting. Making money, especially at low levels in Eternal-Lands, is somewhat overwhelming. New players are essentially told to complete the tutorial quest, or to grind for hours to obtain enough gold coins to buy the equipment they want/need. Either way, quite a bit of time is spent by these players doing whatever they can to obtain these items, only to make a small mistake of venturing onto a map at the wrong time or fighting a creature when they thought they had enough material points, only to find out that they did not have enough. This typically leads to player frustration, which makes them feel as if they have wasted time.

 

C. I hate that I have to grind.

 

Ok, not much can be done about this. Grinding is in every game in one form or another. As a developer, you can only hope that your audience enjoys grinding, or that you can cleverly disguise it in some way to the point where they do not realize they are grinding. This is something that Eternal-Lands is definitely taking steps towards fixing.

Base Conclusion

 

In the end, these people stated that Eternal-Lands became stale, or was just too much work to play. The consensus was that the game can be fun at times, but the fun is relatively short lived compared to the amount of work needed to be put in before the fun happens. These opinions were taken from a wide range of people. Many considered themselves 'casual gamers' (Though if you stick Tetris or Brain Age in front of them, they will play the entire day, but I digress) while others were students and professors at my university. Those at my university are involved in many fields of game development (Art/Modeling, Programming, Game Design). Other people had not ever really played a video game, or considered playing one. What is interesting is that they all shared the same opinion. Take it how you will.

 

The Newbie Island Idea

 

Eternal-Lands used to have a Newbie Island. It was taken out of the game for various reasons. Occasionally, this idea comes up again and is shot down. Maybe this time will be different.

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A. The combat system is odd.

 

B. Losing my newly obtained weapon and armor in a matter of minutes is frustrating!

 

As to the first one I've always wondered why people say this, perhaps I train differently but I have found I can train on slightly higher monsters with a sword or other weapon and get more XP/hr then I would on one at my lvl with out a sword. It is slightly more dangerous but isn't that the purpose of fighting with a sword trying to get something that is harder to kill then you are?

 

Second point I have heard from many, many newbies that have come through my guild and eventually gone inactive. Perhaps we could consider making leather/aug leather armor non-droppable or at the very least a very low chance if it's equipped on the person. If it's just in the inventory i say drop it randomly as normal. And possibly wooden/enhanced shield and iron sword/staff. Whatever the base or lower level fighting items are if they are equipped on a player they don't drop, at least until you reach a certain a/d lvl or OA.

 

That being said they would need to understand that higher lvl armor/weapons come with the risk of dropping once they move to those categories, and they should still break at the same rate as that needs to still happen imo.

 

And a point I think needs addressed with newer players is:

Learning Magic

Some quest or tutorial to learn magic I think is needed badly. It's one of the most mis-understood skills I've had with new players I've helped train. I think a good magic tutorial(in-game) will help with:

1. Less dropping of items in training if they understand how to heal properly

2. Better understanding of combat system early on

3. Less frustration when they reach the point of dieing and spawning in the underworld

4. Helps new players get through the first few lvls quickly so they have less fail sooner(less initial grind)

 

Just teach the first few spells like heal, remote heal, and shield or it could be like the Novac quest and be over time with learning magic as you go through the game.

 

Perhaps there is now I've tried to keep up with all the quests coming in-game but I haven't heard of anything along these lines yet.

I could perhaps help come up with a quest if developers are interested as I've helped a few people develop this skill in the past.

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As to the first one I've always wondered why people say this, perhaps I train differently but I have found I can train on slightly higher monsters with a sword or other weapon and get more XP/hr then I would on one at my lvl with out a sword.

Yeah you're ~500 ranked a/d, so you're right around that stage where using a wep on a fluff is worthwhile.

For the vast majority of a players a/d training prior to ~MCW, using a weapon results in less exp, with the exception of some very specific circumstances. Certainly very early on in the game, training without a wep is highly beneficial.

 

There's been many suggestions over the years on ways to bring weapons to training (in general)... guess Radu hasn't found any of them to be worthwhile/suitable. Furthermore, last time i made suggestions to achieve this, other players responded along the lines of "that's how EL is, if you don't like it, find another game".

 

As to death penalty;

Over the years i've seen and been involved all kinds of debate to help find a nice balance for death penalty.

From what i've seen, the key things that won't happen is:

1. nothing will be done that will decrease the RL$ price of rostos.

2. nothing will be done that is likely decrease the amount of rostos being burned. (even ND-KF only came about when the amount of rostos being burned from PK was so small that increased EFE sales from armor breaks that would occur due to more PK'ing was probably going to exceed the rosto sale loss... I presume, based on knowledge of PK activeness around that time)

 

So, with that in mind, the only thing i could suggest is to focus on reducing the death penalty for those unlikely to be using a rosto anyway.

Like, the 50% chance of dropping from each slot could reduce 1% per OA from OA 50, back to OA 0.

i.e.

at OA 10 you have 10% chance to drop from each slot

at OA 20 you have 20% chance to drop from each slot

at OA 30 you have 30% chance to drop from each slot

etc.

capping at 50 OA, where the chance to drop stops increasing.

 

Or something along those lines.

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So, with that in mind, the only thing i could suggest is to focus on reducing the death penalty for those unlikely to be using a rosto anyway.

Like, the 50% chance of dropping from each slot could reduce 1% per OA from OA 50, back to OA 0.

i.e.

at OA 10 you have 10% chance to drop from each slot

at OA 20 you have 20% chance to drop from each slot

at OA 30 you have 30% chance to drop from each slot

etc.

capping at 50 OA, where the chance to drop stops increasing.

 

Or something along those lines.

iirc, below oa 15, nothing is dropped.

So as a base, 15% chance to drop and moving up from there.

 

This doesn't sound like a bad idea to me, though I would suggest increasing by 3% and having it reach the normal 50% at oa 30ish

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So, with that in mind, the only thing i could suggest is to focus on reducing the death penalty for those unlikely to be using a rosto anyway.

Like, the 50% chance of dropping from each slot could reduce 1% per OA from OA 50, back to OA 0.

i.e.

at OA 10 you have 10% chance to drop from each slot

at OA 20 you have 20% chance to drop from each slot

at OA 30 you have 30% chance to drop from each slot

etc.

capping at 50 OA, where the chance to drop stops increasing.

 

Or something along those lines.

iirc, below oa 15, nothing is dropped.

So as a base, 15% chance to drop and moving up from there.

 

This doesn't sound like a bad idea to me, though I would suggest increasing by 3% and having it reach the normal 50% at oa 30ish

This sounds like a pretty decent idea.

 

Now, on the topic of swords, if some creatures had the smarts to try to be more defensive and less offensive when you use a sword, that might affect things too. I am not saying it would be all good, but it might be interesting.

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