Phoenix

[Boedha]

would be cool as a pet and u can send him to other maps to collect db

[korrode]

(not that anyone cares anyway)

Well, do you wan't suggestions on how it could be improved? or not really?

 

No, thank you. I already know what people want. They want the phoenix to be something that can kill anything in 2 hits, and be invulnerable to anything, cost no creature food, double your carry weight just like the mule, be fast like the horses used to, and increase reading speed by 20x.

Some people might, I certainly don't.

[Infamous]

(not that anyone cares anyway)

Well, do you wan't suggestions on how it could be improved? or not really?

 

No, thank you. I already know what people want. They want the phoenix to be something that can kill anything in 2 hits, and be invulnerable to anything, cost no creature food, double your carry weight just like the mule, be fast like the horses used to, and increase reading speed by 20x.

 

not to mention the 24/7 sun tzu

 

tbh as it is now, boedha's suggestions sounds good. have it as a pet that can attack, but without the db collecting ^^

 

respawning in pk while shapeshifted into phoenix isnt something you wanna try out and see if your lucky, you might die to your enemy instead of respawning and then u look bad for getting owned

[Entropy]

Some people might, I certainly don't.

 

So what would Master Korrode's heart desire?

 

tbh as it is now, boedha's suggestions sounds good. have it as a pet that can attack, but without the db collecting ^^

 

respawning in pk while shapeshifted into phoenix isnt something you wanna try out and see if your lucky, you might die to your enemy instead of respawning and then u look bad for getting owned

 

It's like me asking for a friend to come with me and help me pick a new car, and he says: Dude, what you really need is a helicopter. That's not going to help me, you know?

[Wizzy]

Some people might, I certainly don't.

 

So what would Master Korrode's heart desire?

 

tbh as it is now, boedha's suggestions sounds good. have it as a pet that can attack, but without the db collecting ^^

 

respawning in pk while shapeshifted into phoenix isnt something you wanna try out and see if your lucky, you might die to your enemy instead of respawning and then u look bad for getting owned

 

It's like me asking for a friend to come with me and help me pick a new car, and he says: Dude, what you really need is a helicopter. That's not going to help me, you know?

 

No, I think most people have concerns about the phoneix (before investing an arm and a leg in creature food) that it will not be all that usefull due to not having magic restoration spell, and as most people have fairly low natural material points.

 

yes, in td map it is a bit more usefull due to no cooldown, so great healing pots can be use to stay alive, However on other maps people/mobs will hit for 30-80 points / hit and can reduce you to underworld very quickly. I havent had a chance to test yet, because I am too cheap to buy 10k glyps, but the desricption of the polymorphs effects gives me an idea of its capabilites.

 

I will certainy play with it when I have the chance to test it out as best i can. though this has been the concerns I hear from others about the phoneix.

[Lorck]

No, thank you. I already know what people want. They want the phoenix to be something that can kill anything in 2 hits, and be invulnerable to anything, cost no creature food, double your carry weight just like the mule, be fast like the horses used to, and increase reading speed by 20x.

Well, i have not tested it. But looking at the stats and from the fact you can't wear any items, some notes on the phoenix can be taken:

 

You get a pretty good attack bonus, but you don't get any damage bonus, so you hit frequently for very low (0?) damage;

 

You get a pretty good dodge bonus but you can't wear armor or COL, so when you take damage you take a lot of damage with low HP;

 

You get a chance of reborn, but you can't restore + you still have low hp;

 

You get high fire protection, but there is weapons/monsters which deals tons of fire damage?

 

The cooldown thing looks pretty good, there isn't equivalent outside phoenix shapeshifting. On the other hand you can't cast some spells, but that only matters much in combat anyway.

 

Without testing, on paper, it doesn't look awesome at all. And you have to spend tons (millions?) of gc to test it for its full power. Someone have done it?

[korrode]

Some people might, I certainly don't.

So what would Master Korrode's heart desire?

I don't particularly desire the Phoenix do anything beneficial for me personally. I think giving it advantages for in-combat is risky, there's a very fine line between useless and OP, so i'd focus on making the Phoenix useful elsewhere.

 

One thing that comes to mind; Landmines(/caltrops/wards, etc.).

You could make it so when in Phoenix form you don't set them off when you walk on them (and, considering it's a flying bird, this makes awesome sense). This would make it very attractive for One perk'ers to level it up and regularly transform into it, it would also give it a strategic pre-combat use in PK; you can fly over mines/wards that enemies have lined the entry with, and have a method of engaging enemies standing within MD/MI-rem ward zones.

Is it possible to un-Phoenix on command? or is the only way you can change back to wait till you run out of food?... It'd be good to be able to change back to normal immediately once you've engaged an opponent, so you can quickly re-equip weps/armor)

 

You could also increase the chance to flee fights when in Phoenix form based on your Phoenix level... can you transform into it while in combat? If not, perhaps make it so you can, so those who've levelled it and bring the required stuff to transform could have another more reliable option to exit combat if/when their diss rings are on cooldown.

 

Does it have any Light modifier reduction? (like camo cape)... with not setting off mines, increased chance to flee, and decreasing your visibility, it could end up attractive for hydro runners too.

 

 

Should i keep thinking on it and post more ideas? or don't bother?

[Entropy]

I don't particularly desire the Phoenix do anything beneficial for me personally. I think giving it advantages for in-combat is risky, there's a very fine line between useless and OP, so i'd focus on making the Phoenix useful elsewhere.

Not only that the line is very fine, but it is also very subjective as well.

 

One thing that comes to mind; Landmines(/caltrops/wards, etc.).

You could make it so when in Phoenix form you don't set them off when you walk on them (and, considering it's a flying bird, this makes awesome sense). This would make it very attractive for One perk'ers to level it up and regularly transform into it, it would also give it a strategic pre-combat use in PK; you can fly over mines/wards that enemies have lined the entry with, and have a method of engaging enemies standing within MD/MI-rem ward zones.

Yes, there were some who proposed this idea, and I was thinking about it too. But I don't think people would use it just for this feature, EXCEPT maybe for Oners getting out of the underworld. The wards are not very used anyway.

 

 

Is it possible to un-Phoenix on command? or is the only way you can change back to wait till you run out of food?... It'd be good to be able to change back to normal immediately once you've engaged an opponent, so you can quickly re-equip weps/armor)

Yes, as with the mule, you can change back whenever you want.

 

You could also increase the chance to flee fights when in Phoenix form based on your Phoenix level... can you transform into it while in combat? If not, perhaps make it so you can, so those who've levelled it and bring the required stuff to transform could have another more reliable option to exit combat if/when their diss rings are on cooldown.

That's an interesting idea.

 

Does it have any Light modifier reduction? (like camo cape)... with not setting off mines, increased chance to flee, and decreasing your visibility, it could end up attractive for hydro runners too.

You get a light modifier bonus because you don't wear any items.

 

Should i keep thinking on it and post more ideas? or don't bother?

 

Yeah, sure, go ahead.

[Maxine]

...

One thing that comes to mind; Landmines(/caltrops/wards, etc.).

You could make it so when in Phoenix form you don't set them off when you walk on them (and, considering it's a flying bird, this makes awesome sense). This would make it very attractive for One perk'ers ...

 

I like the idea of having a counter to mines, not just for One-perkers, but all peaceful harvesters in pk areas on peace days, and hydro runners too

Nice suggestion.

[korrode]

Another idea:

 

AoE buff for guildies.

 

When you're a Phoenix anyone within X tiles of you, from the same guild as you, gets 'Phoenix buff', giving maybe +2 Accuracy, Evasion(Defense) and Missile Accuracy.... or possibly +3 Heat Damage... or something ^^

 

If that were to be done, would ofc be nice to have the guildmates see a buff icon for it so they know if they're within range, eg.

 

I think this would certainly make having a Phoenix in the mix in PK something guilds would try to do often enough, but so long as the bonuses from the buff aren't too big, it wouldn't become 'mandatory for pk'.

 

edit: ofc it could also be useful for invasions, instances, etc.

edit2: outside of PK areas, could be worth having it affect all players within range, irrelevant of guild relation.

Edited February 10, 2010 by Korrode

[Entropy]

I was originally thinking of some AoE but not the way you described it, because that's pretty complicated to implement. Instead, I was thinking to have an AoE fire damage as a special effect for full leveled phoenixes. However, it would not discriminate between friends or foes, and will require mana and a special item to use.

[Elf_Ninja]

I like Korrode's above idea. of course anything that improves guild benefits i'm for ;D

 

Might be interesting if based on your lvl if you do re-spawn when you die you do explosive damage on enemies nearby. dunno about chances or amount but since phoenix are born of fire would make sense and gives a benefit to fight till you die in phoenix form.

[korrode]

I was thinking to have an AoE fire damage as a special effect for full leveled phoenixes. However, it would not discriminate between friends or foes

Just my opinion; I think implementation as you describe isn't so great.

AoE's really need to discriminate between guildie (and possibly allies), and enemies (i.e. everyone else).

 

 

I was originally thinking of some AoE but not the way you described it, because that's pretty complicated to implement.

Again just my opinion; Bite the bullet and make a good AoE system that is very flexible. There's heaps of potentially cool AoE stuff you could be doing, i'd say it's worth taking the time to create a good system for it.

 

Gotta goto work soon but i'll think more on ideas for Phoenix.

[Entropy]

I was thinking to have an AoE fire damage as a special effect for full leveled phoenixes. However, it would not discriminate between friends or foes

Just my opinion; I think implementation as you describe isn't so great.

AoE's really need to discriminate between guildie (and possibly allies), and enemies (i.e. everyone else).

I see at LEAST 2 scenarios, 1 PK, 1 PvE where my idea will work very well. Care to guess what those scenarios are?

 

 

Again just my opinion; Bite the bullet and make a good AoE system that is very flexible. There's heaps of potentially cool AoE stuff you could be doing, i'd say it's worth taking the time to create a good system for it.

 

You are right, creating an AoE system (and I guess you mean mostly for buffs) is a nice thing. It can add stuff such as clerics, or even special items or perks and shit, and I will keep that in the back of my mind.

[nathanstenzel]

I imagine it would not be possible until we have the new client and the 3d maps, but if a phoenix could fly over water, fences, etc, it might be nice.

 

With the current setup, it would have to be able to travel from a tile to a tile of up to two or three difference instead of just one. The height maps is what I am referring to.

 

If you can turn into a bird, you might as well take advantage of the term "as the bird flies".

[groomsh]

...

One thing that comes to mind; Landmines(/caltrops/wards, etc.).

You could make it so when in Phoenix form you don't set them off when you walk on them (and, considering it's a flying bird, this makes awesome sense). This would make it very attractive for One perk'ers ...

 

I like the idea of having a counter to mines, not just for One-perkers, but all peaceful harvesters in pk areas on peace days, and hydro runners too

Nice suggestion.

I see one problem with this ...

Lot of people use RC mines and just blow you up by detonating the mines right when you enter some area, so it would cover hydro runners only partially.

(i'm not bitching, just pointing out what i observed on hydro runs )

[Dugur]

I was thinking to have an AoE fire damage as a special effect for full leveled phoenixes. However, it would not discriminate between friends or foes

Just my opinion; I think implementation as you describe isn't so great.

AoE's really need to discriminate between guildie (and possibly allies), and enemies (i.e. everyone else).

I see at LEAST 2 scenarios, 1 PK, 1 PvE where my idea will work very well. Care to guess what those scenarios are?

 

Slaughter fest with pinned mobs in Bethel?

[Entropy]

That's one. And the other is?

[Dugur]

That's one. And the other is?

 

Korrode is better at this but...

Obviously it's about PK. It does area damage, only place where you get several players in PK area at once is in KF. Phoenix has decent survival ability and allows it to run around while burning with AoE. I doubt this is it, because you mentioned it's something that works very well. This doesn't.

If underpowered and one is fighting several, phoenix can damage them all. Your tank will just be dead faster and the opponents will have nps to survive anyway. Not this either.

 

I seem to be clueless. Please, do enlighten me. :S

[Entropy]

I seem to be clueless. Please, do enlighten me. :S

 

Hint: look at the phoenix abilities.

[Dugur]

I seem to be clueless. Please, do enlighten me. :S

 

Hint: look at the phoenix abilities.

 

So it would be the answer to the lack of damage it can inflight in the phoenix form?

[Gilrain]

tanking MBs while having hi dodge chance ?

[korrode]

That's one. And the other is?

 

Korrode is better at this but...

meh obviously not that much better.

I can't think of a specific instance where it would "work very well"... though maybe definitions of 'very well' can vary.

 

Maybe adding to the heat dmg in the fire cavern on the way to the hydro... or as a method to annoy people in single combat arenas... don't know if i'd consider either of them as working 'very well'...

 

If it's a lot of fire damage, then it would have some obvious uses.

[Wizzy]

Maybe even the I glow in the dark perk for this phoneix?

[TigerClaw]

That's one. And the other is?

 

I'm going to take a swing at this.. Is it cause the polymorphed player registered on your map as a "creature" yellow dot; plus it can fly so if you turn your camera really fast or towards it while ur fighting someone else; or even just scouting Kf you migh "undetect" the player.. So works well in sneaking up on the unsuspecting Kf Pkers? Or because of the attack bonus and heat damage, plus the MI effect that's currently broken, use a TS pot and it works wonder for invisible naked mages just my thoughts on the phoniex's benefits

 

edit: misread the fact that you wanted an opnion on how the AoE fire damage well I think that it works well if you want to kill summons and summoners? The MI allows u to just stand there and not be killed by magic; with the fire damage (depending on how much) you can pretty much damage all summons near u while in phoniex's form.. So when your guildies are being attacked by let say.. Tank rabbits or tigers; the fire damage would kill the tigers faster = less chance of cooldown and would work great on tank rabbits considering they have evanescence... And now looking on summons.... The high attak, fire damage, and respawn... Plus possible fire damage... Omfg you created AC killers! high attack because all summons has 0 def + 50% of summoners summon lvl. Heat damage against ARTIC chims.. Plus they summon 8 so the AOE fire damage would be able to attack all in range; and the respawn gives u a chance to not die so fast cause of the high criticals of the AC. Hope I got some point right

Edited February 12, 2010 by TigerClaw