New Market System

[auror]

I've only been semi-active on Eternal Lands, and with the unrest in the market system right now, it seems like a good idea to propose a new market system. I've played EVE Online before (I don't now, it takes up too much time) and I'm convinced their market system is superior to that of Eternal Lands.

 

Here are some screen shots of how the market in EVE is set up (click to enlarge):

 

As you can see from the screen shots, players can sell their items or make buy orders that remain active even when their character is logged off. It also provides various graphs/tables of market trends. In EVE, market data is restricted into certain regions, so not all market data is given about the entire game. As I recall, I have seen various external system like this around, but putting this directly in the game would be easier for everyone.

 

Now, I'm not trying to make EL into EVE, but I think this is a decent system that could be done.

 

Of course, the downside is that bots become useless (this could be viewed as good or bad), so ent doesn't get the money bot owners pay.

[PaulB]

I've only been semi-active on Eternal Lands, and with the unrest in the market system right now, it seems like a good idea to propose a new market system. I've played EVE Online before (I don't now, it takes up too much time) and I'm convinced their market system is superior to that of Eternal Lands.

 

Here are some screen shots of how the market in EVE is set up (click to enlarge):

 

As you can see from the screen shots, players can sell their items or make buy orders that remain active even when their character is logged off. It also provides various graphs/tables of market trends. In EVE, market data is restricted into certain regions, so not all market data is given about the entire game. As I recall, I have seen various external system like this around, but putting this directly in the game would be easier for everyone.

 

Now, I'm not trying to make EL into EVE, but I think this is a decent system that could be done.

 

Of course, the downside is that bots become useless (this could be viewed as good or bad), so ent doesn't get the money bot owners pay.

 

 

The EL market itself is not flawed..

 

It is fine the way it is as far as trading goes.

 

The problem is the people overcharging for things that is an issue.

 

And taking bot out of the picture would be bad for the devs as it is a income provider for them.

[nathanstenzel]

These graphs are very interesting. I agree. That does look like a better system. Information is key when trying to determine what price to buy/sell at

[SinS]

Personally I've always liked the auction house type systems available in many MMORPG's but in the case of Eternal Lands, putting something like this in place would be a Very drastic change to the game, both in programming cost and the way the game is played. I think the market system the way it is now, is part of what makes EL, EL. It requires players to think for themselves and for those that take the time to study the market, and follow it's changes, you can actually find a decent niche of what people will always need, and sell for the same price over many years and still make the same amount of profit every time. Selling HE's for 7g, 5 years ago you could make a profit every time, today you can still sell HE's for 7g every time and still make a profit. How many other systems can boast that?

[nathanstenzel]

Not all items on the market are for a profit. It is a very very long story with many many comments.

 

There have been many many complaints about the EL economy. That in its self is a sign that some improvement or change in how business can be done would be appreciated by the players.

[hobobob38]

Just saying....that looks a lot more complicated...and have you never heard of dont fix what isnt broken?

[auror]

Just saying....that looks a lot more complicated...and have you never heard of dont fix what isnt broken?

 

The system is broken. Bots control a vast majority of the market and the owners are free to set any buy or sell price they want. It only looks complicated at first, but it's quite easy once you get used to it. Sell and buy orders are shown with the quantity, price (per item), and the expiration date. The graph just shows the 5 and 20 day averages, the Donchian Channel, and the median day price.

[The_Piper]

Seriously, the economy in EL is an open market.

 

Ppl can do what they want.

 

Unfortunately, we have some players here, who always over-react. Like if a fly is doing a poop, they think, that they must react at once.

 

And lower or increase their prices. And then complain, if the market goes down. Which, somehow, is their own fault.

 

Stay cool.

 

If someone sells for not acceptable prizes, dont buy.

 

Just wait until the market calms down and get back to more realistic prices.

 

Seriously, all that fuzz about skyrocketing prices is just a joke.

 

Don't like the actual prizes?

 

Don't buy and wait.

 

Seriously, but i know, that patience is a rare item in EL somehow..

 

My 2 Euro cents.

 

Piper

[hussam]

Don't buy and wait.

Wait till what? A better deal? If market price goes very high, no one will sell at a lower price.

[ProHibited]

No,

 

Boring to click a few buttons and get your item, rather find the player selling it and discuss a price

Bots take away some of the human aspects of 'trading' but if a system takes over pretty much all interaction, the next step is control over prices by the game/devs.

[Cycloonx]

the next step is control over prices by the game/devs.

 

Radu already influences price by setting shop prices and limiting resources (like rare stones).

[Aislinn]

Seriously, but i know, that patience is a rare item in EL somehow..

And there you have it.

 

EL market is fine. EL is fine for the most part. (yes some things need tweaking and work or "fixing", what game doesn't) Overall EL is great and the concept is great.

But:

The game is here to be played, not won. There is no rush to have it all yesterday. Everything a true player needs is here. Short term goals, long term goals, easy-to-get equipment, easy-to-harvest/mix items, moving up through the very difficult, very rare.

 

But guess what. People try to "cheat" the game dynamics (and ultimately themselves) by buying ready-built characters, loads of "rare" and expensive stuff from the shop, gc from other players, etc...all because they have no patience to actually play the game. They want to be the best/richest/strongest immediately.

 

So they end up bored and there is not enough stuff to go around because the natural order of things is broken. Not EL, it is not broken. The progression of characters at all levels is broken, and therefore there aren't enough natural providers. Too many people want stuff (and find ways to get it) that they really have no game skills to acquire or use. Nor can they replace things when they lose them.

 

And then they try to change the game to suit their bypassing the way the game was made. They blame the game for being faulty when they are not the ones playing the game as it was meant to be played. EL feels like a factory, who can crank out the most whatever to get the most rare items to make the most l33t items. Who can buy the best character rather than level your own. Who can acquire 100 binding stones so they can mass produce some high-end stuff so everybody can have it now. And when steps are taken to combat this, they complain.

 

Bleh.

[bkc56]

The game is here to be played, not won. There is no rush to have it all yesterday.

I believe this is a good observation on the root of a lot of the "problems" in EL. We see it on the PK server too because the #1 reason given for not playing there is "I don't want to have to start over at zero". Playing the game long-term is not consistent with the instant gratification mentality (I deserve it now!).

 

One does not appreciate what one has not worked for.

[SlimPickins]

The bot EternalBroker already gives EL a function similar to the one suggested in the original post. Let's start using it more.

[ProHibited]

(Sorry for replying to off topic comments)

 

Some only value the end product (l33t char), others value the road to obtaining that product.

 

Having a character trained solely by myself makes me feel like I accomplished something. In real life that is the same, I like building something myself more then buying a new cellphone...

I am sure others value their accounts in a same way.

 

Saying people are not playing the game as intended is wrong, players play like they want If the current playing style causes problems for the game, it should adapt. If development does not keep up with changing player needs, problems will arise.

 

Coming back to the suggestion, I do not think that the proposed market system will influence EL positively.

[DHT]

Aislinn, you're my #1 favorite mod \o/ Well said, really.

 

As for the suggestion, EL market is fine as it is.

[Infamous]

Personally I've always liked the auction house type systems available in many MMORPG's but in the case of Eternal Lands, putting something like this in place would be a Very drastic change to the game, both in programming cost and the way the game is played. I think the market system the way it is now, is part of what makes EL, EL. It requires players to think for themselves and for those that take the time to study the market, and follow it's changes, you can actually find a decent niche of what people will always need, and sell for the same price over many years and still make the same amount of profit every time. Selling HE's for 7g, 5 years ago you could make a profit every time, today you can still sell HE's for 7g every time and still make a profit. How many other systems can boast that?

 

you'd think that but you'd be wrong, people do /rraisa buy item and get prices from there, or if you ask on channel 3 for a PC you dont get much answer sometimes

 

an auction house system is nice though, could work like storage window, pick the category you need from there like weapons and see all weapons for sale

you want to sell something, look up your item and see how much others are selling it for and then decide if you want to go higher or lower then that

it could be linked to an NPC to which the bought items go to for you to pick up, same goes for GC from sales.

the auction house could have a minor fee to pay for putting stuff on it, low fee for low lvl items, higher fee for high lvl items (removes a bit of gc from the game)

[Littlebig]

Aislinn is completely right.

[nathanstenzel]

Personally I've always liked the auction house type systems available in many MMORPG's but in the case of Eternal Lands, putting something like this in place would be a Very drastic change to the game, both in programming cost and the way the game is played. I think the market system the way it is now, is part of what makes EL, EL. It requires players to think for themselves and for those that take the time to study the market, and follow it's changes, you can actually find a decent niche of what people will always need, and sell for the same price over many years and still make the same amount of profit every time. Selling HE's for 7g, 5 years ago you could make a profit every time, today you can still sell HE's for 7g every time and still make a profit. How many other systems can boast that?

 

you'd think that but you'd be wrong, people do /rraisa buy item and get prices from there, or if you ask on channel 3 for a PC you dont get much answer sometimes

 

an auction house system is nice though, could work like storage window, pick the category you need from there like weapons and see all weapons for sale

you want to sell something, look up your item and see how much others are selling it for and then decide if you want to go higher or lower then that

it could be linked to an NPC to which the bought items go to for you to pick up, same goes for GC from sales.

the auction house could have a minor fee to pay for putting stuff on it, low fee for low lvl items, higher fee for high lvl items (removes a bit of gc from the game)

Yeah, it is sometimes hard getting a reply on the market channel.

 

An auction house would probably be a good money sink, I guess. That might help counter the idea that it would be bad for bot business. Bots using the auction house too might be interesting.

[chr0nik]

Yeah, it is sometimes hard getting a reply on the market channel.

Channel 3 regulars don't always know the prices of every item - that's where bot prices started having more "control" over prices players agreed on. Anyone can quickly search with rraisa or dogbreath's bot site to see at what prices bots buy & sell.

 

Contrary to this trend, players have recently sold rostogols below prices paid by bots and ofc there's the new BOSS harvesting service selling base ings below what many would consider market prices.

 

Anyway, in the theme of the original post in this thread, a "new market system" as such isn't what we need. Rather, players need to use their own judgement to determine the value of an item they wish to sell or what they're willing to pay for an item - as opposed to "exactly how much, down to that last 10gc, can I get out of this item I want to sell" or "how cheap can I get some other newbie or poor player to sell this item to me for, even if I only save 50gc on the total order."

[hussam]

But guess what. People try to "cheat" the game dynamics (and ultimately themselves) by buying ready-built characters, loads of "rare" and expensive stuff from the shop, gc from other players, etc...all because they have no patience to actually play the game. They want to be the best/richest/strongest immediately.

Not every "impatient" person who sets big goals actually buys chars or gcs or stuff from the shop. I never did and will probably never be able to buy a rostogol from shop as long as I can't use my mastercard to buy it. And I'm a power leveler who wants to to get to 100 alchemy, 120/130 a/d. and eventually 100 crafting as fast as possible with as little resource usage as possible. Yes, this can burn some players out but it doesn't have to be a bad thing. On the contrary, it is mainly why I'm against char buying/selling especially when new players do that and all sort of free pickpoints suck as pickpoint buying or negative perks.