Boycott Learner

[nicktehbrick]

He have guts. There are 4 possibilities of what he is trying to do:

2. testing market to see if there are some other ppl with guts (i doubt) that will try to keep price of rosto as it was

 

Let the game begin

 

I believe this point you make will be our own undoing.

 

 

And in any case, the only person who can really create a rosto monopoly is radu. Learner is not a threat until he also buys up all the EFEs, bindings, etc in game!

 

Don't give him (or anyone else) ideas

[WolfWitch]

There is a HUGE difference between constructive comments to fix a problem and bitching for the sake of it. You do not want to pay 30k? DON'T but do not bitch when someone IS prepared to pay it - it is thier choice - just as they can choose to sell for 50k and you can choose to STILL not buy!

[Gohan]

@Wolfy: Amen sister.

 

Btw, Paul, I had to laugh at something in your post but it was so terrible that I'll keep it to myself.

 

-Gohan

[Rasool]

Paypal's not available here too and apparently this point is not gonna be understood by some people. plus this reason is not the only blockade against buying stuff from shop. some players are kids and can't pay $ for shop or whatever other reason and we all 'players' know it. what Learner's doing even if no one buy from him, would raise the normal rosto prices for sure, you can already see the result in market rosto prices, you can't find them at below 40k at the time of writing this.

Nice move, one more step toward ruining a great game.

[nicktehbrick]

Paypal's not available here too and apparently this point is not gonna be understood by some people. plus this reason is not the only blockade against buying stuff from shop. some players are kids and can't pay $ for shop or whatever other reason and we all 'players' know it. what Learner's doing even if no one buy from him, would raise the normal rosto prices for sure, you can already see the result in market rosto prices, you can't find them at below 40k at the time of writing this.

Nice move, one more step toward ruining a great game.

 

Good thing I have enough in storage...

 

However you bring up a good point, and with pr0 players with lots of $$$ who might just buy a rosto at this price (especially if the price keeps going up) then we might just see a permanent increase in rosto price.

 

My understanding (from reading a post in this thread) is that there are only a certain amount of rostos in game at a time. In which case we are going to have to get used to higher prices... unless teh G0d decided to make rostos easier to find, which I am not promoting since I believe in a more/less free market.

 

Supply and demand ftl peeps..... (not gonna lie, I really enjoyed reading everyone's opinions on here )

[Learner]

I've seen Rosto's on bots for 32k-35k since the boycott started.

[PaulB]

Btw, Paul, I had to laugh at something in your post but it was so terrible that I'll keep it to myself.

 

Good for you. Want a cookie?

[Ateh]

*observation time*

 

Eternal Lands seems to be a game where people enjoy a situation becoming worse. Its applauded and praised.

 

Ive said recently I believe some people spend too much time playing this game and end up looking at things in a very wierd way. I believe this to be the case with the latest situaion to.

 

Its almost like sadism. You stamp on my nuts and I scream yay thank you.

 

*solution time*

 

1.Buy from Shop more rostos and flood the game with them at 20kgc , which is a fair price

2.Wait for there to be no more rostogol activity on bots or market, rostogols will be something bought from the shop and passed between friends, it will be a benefit to know plenty of people

3.Dont allow bots to stock shop items , lol shock horror suggestion but hey at least im brain storming

4.Remove rraisa from the game, she damages peoples perception of the free market. it no longer is a free market when price fixing occurs, and with rraisa, price fixing has occured by proxy. And yes Ozmondius is right that an informed consumer pays less, but there are better ways to inform ourselves like *shock horror* speaking to each other in chnnl3 and PM ?

[Nova]

Yes..

 

I choose to pay my rent and keep my son fed rather than buy/supply rostogol stones to a market that others feel the need to fuck over.

 

So your finances are so bad that even spending, say, 20 bucks a month extra would render you homeless and your son would starve? And you dare to talk about my game's economy???

I can remember a time where $20 a month would have forced the choice between gas to get to work or peanut butter sandwiches for dinner. Its not that way for me anymore, but I bet it is for some people.

 

 

Sometimes making things too hard to get for people causes greed... Pure and simple greed..... This is the EL market today.

Paul touches on a good point that greed is causing sky high prices. Its an idea being batted around a lot lately. Somewhere during the past year the game became too much work for too little fun.

El's friendly community is crumbling, which is sad because it was a big drawing and sticking point to the game for a lot of people. But the game creator speaking out against being nice and returning lost deathbags because he wants more people to carry and burn rostos just doesn't spell a nice friendly, family fun game to me. (This whole skyhigh rosto price fiasco started with Radu asking on 6 about returning DBs and scolding the people who said that they would/do because it discourages rosto use. Everything snowballed from there. omfg high prices, omfg bot prices, omfg buy from shop, omfg no, omfg what is learner doing?!)

I am ALL FOR radu making money for his work on the game, but if rostos aren't working as well as they used to for income, and i suspect they aren't since the addition of no drop pk areas, then maybe its time to come up with another way to make money to supplement what is earned from rostos, rares, bot fees, therms, p2p, name/race/color changes. More ways of getting cash in your pocket can't be bad.

This idea keeps popping back up. And I know there were posts saying, 'omfg unfair', but in reality... when is having $$ to blow not an advantage and how is it an even bigger advantage then buying rostos/rares from shop now? http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=49156

 

 

 

*snip*but I honestly believe there is a lesson here - be careful what you bitch about - it can ALWAYS get worse

 

yes, so in a game where its supposed to be fun you shouldnt complain when messed up things happen, just let them walk all over you and smile cause it can get worse

funny how buying rosto's from shop is used as alternative suggestion though

Well said. Sorry wolfwitch, i know we get on alright in game, but the masses shouldn't be spanked for opinions of the few, even if there are a bunch of whiners and idiots in between valid points.

 

But back on topic, What learner did just sucks. As I understand it, all the rostos he bought he bought from bots for 40k or less and is now trying to sell for 50k to prove the point that there were rostos available out there, but people just didn't want to pay that much for them.

Now here is the thing that bothers me, Radu has been saying "don't let the price gougers control the market. Just don't pay the high price." Its a totally valid idea, but in order for that idea to work, everyone in game who feels the prices are too high has to band together and agree not to buy from people/bots who are selling at high prices. Unless there is some chat about it, its not going to get done. Chan 6 seems to be the place for this kind of chat to happen now. And with chat on 6 comes idiot whiners who sometimes don't fully understand or who try to slip in stupid suggestions for their own benefit or who just like to rattle the monkey cage. Its usually these idiot whiner cage rattlers who piss off people to the point that Learner got pissed and took action. So now we all boycott Learner instead of being able to try to band together and boycott many different greedy people/bots who are selling at ridiculous prices and maybe fixing a big problem in the game. (not calling you greedy learner, its obvious you aren't doing this for the gc)

 

I suppose it could still be done though. Learner didn't buy ALL the rostos in game. So here is 'my' proposal (or the general proposal of several, whatever). It is elegant in its simplicity. If you think that rosto prices (or ANY prices, all rares are getting greedily ridiculous) are too high, DON'T BUY THEM even if you can afford them. Doesn't matter if it is from Learner or someone else, or a bot. I have already heard of people taking the initiative and selling rostos for 25-27k like they have previously been. So good for them and I'll throw my hat in the ring also. If/when I have rostos to sell, I will sell for no more then 26k. If the prices drop lower, I'll sell for less. (This pledge is through my character only for now, since my bot is a shared bot.)

Edited December 4, 2009 by Nova

[chr0nik]

Sorry wolfwitch, i know we get on alright in game, but the masses shouldn't be spanked for opinions of the few, even if there are a bunch of whiners and idiots in between valid points.

Exactly. The lack of available rostogols and/or increased price of rostogols impacts many players' enjoyment of the game, including mine. I had no part in the conversation(s) that started all of this, but I do now reap the "benefit."

 

A higher price means I have to spend more time grinding out items to sell to NPCs or players to pay for rostogols, which then afford me the luxury of fighting difficult invasion mobs in expensive gear.

 

I believe the ultimate reason here is schadenfreude. Some in this game really get off when other players are upset. So congratulations on that.

[Nova]

Sorry wolfwitch, i know we get on alright in game, but the masses shouldn't be spanked for opinions of the few, even if there are a bunch of whiners and idiots in between valid points.

Exactly. The lack of available rostogols and/or increased price of rostogols impacts many players' enjoyment of the game, including mine. I had no part in the conversation(s) that started all of this, but I do now reap the "benefit."

 

A higher price means I have to spend more time grinding out items to sell to NPCs or players to pay for rostogols, which then afford me the luxury of fighting difficult invasion mobs in expensive gear.

 

I believe the ultimate reason here is schadenfreude. Some in this game really get off when other players are upset. So congratulations on that.

 

Pro choice of words chr0nik. Just wanted to about that. El has a huge pocket of people who do the shameful joy thing.

[forever]

Nova, you probably had one of the best walls of text I've had the liberty of reading in quite a while.

 

You are right on just about all your points. I've told people on Channel 6 (as liam until I get a name change) that the market is controllable by the people and that if we do something it'll change. I refuse to spend more gold coin than I want to spend for certain items, rather that be a CoL, silver ore, iron ore, or a general rostogol stone. I sell at the original prices before this crap began.

 

Most people who complain about it turn around and accept the price gouging as a method to make their own GC rise. What has started to happen is "Oh my god Learner is charging 50k for Rostos and he owns most of them, that's BS i can't believe this crap whine whine / wrist /wrist... then 5 minutes later [soandso @ 3] Selling Rostos 48k per!

 

It's become a hypocritical type of thing and no one wants to take action but every one wants to complain but at the same time they want to benefit. You can't have it both ways. Instead of every one marking up prices why don't you undercut your neighbor? It's how EvilJoe became so rich, he sold ores / materials cheaper than anyone else. Why? You are probably asking yourself. The answer is simple, as long as every one is gouging prices to no end the people under cutting you will ALWAYS have buyers for their material. I mentioned that I sell silver for 2gc per and Iron for 3gc per no matter the circumstances on channel 6 last night and got 3 PM's from people wanting me to harvest for them.

 

People if you want to make the market better you have to do something. Stop buying for ridiculous prices so that the people selling for ridiculous prices can keep making GC. Refuse to buy from them, what so ever. Stop selling for ridiculous prices and expecting to buy them cheaper. That view point is hypocritical and stupid.

 

I'm going to join Nova in working to make the market better. I as well as anyone else control my own market. I buy / sell at my leisure. I sell/buy for what I see fit and I don't pm /Rraisa to find out what the PC is. I'll value my own things.

 

My 2 GC.

 

~Forever (Liam ingame until name change)

[Dilly]

lol @ rostos for 50kgc.

 

 

Did it occur to any of you that Learner might actually be trying to prove a friggin point here?

 

With all due respect, if you really wanna make a point and keep rosto price 'reasonable', keep selling them at 32kgc. As said in an earlier post in thread, that's pretty much much they are worth when you look at shop price vs gc/usd conversion rate on the gc market. And if you really wanna go back to what it was, then ask even less. If you offer for less, people will buy from you, not from learner and he will just find himself with a crapload of rostos which he paid too much for, and is trying to charge even more for ^^

[groomsh]

If you offer for less, people will buy from you, not from learner and he will just find himself with a crapload of rostos which he paid too much for, and is trying to charge even more for ^^

 

I would gladly do it (sell for less), but what i learned is that there is LOT of resellers who buy from you for "fair" price and sell it OVERpriced.

There are even people who hop from guild to guild and are abusing/misusing the good will and kindness of guildies and buy from them very cheap and resale.

[amar]

no1 can say to ppl what they must buy/sell :< he can do any thing he want

my bot sold 6 rosto for 40k ea :>

Edited December 4, 2009 by amar

[Peanut Buddha]

Conspiracy Theory #203

 

This was all funded by Holar to take all the heat off of him for awhile. Learner is just the middle man.

 

Seriously, very interesting topic. Has kept me thoroughly entertained. Good show, Learner

 

Wynn

Edited December 4, 2009 by Peanut Buddha

[Dilly]

If you offer for less, people will buy from you, not from learner and he will just find himself with a crapload of rostos which he paid too much for, and is trying to charge even more for ^^

 

I would gladly do it (sell for less), but what i learned is that there is LOT of resellers who buy from you for "fair" price and sell it OVERpriced.

There are even people who hop from guild to guild and are abusing/misusing the good will and kindness of guildies and buy from them very cheap and resale.

 

provided you always have supply of rostos, you will always be the owner of the bot people go to first. Problem would be keeping stock up ^^

[Nova]

I would gladly do it (sell for less), but what i learned is that there is LOT of resellers who buy from you for "fair" price and sell it OVERpriced.

There are even people who hop from guild to guild and are abusing/misusing the good will and kindness of guildies and buy from them very cheap and resale.

 

This is a really good point, but we can't let these people stop us from trying. We can try to fight back with a thread naming known overpriced resellers so that everyone can decide if they want to sell to/buy from these people though.

 

** Edit ** Personally, to combat this problem with rostos, i don't plan to sell more then 2 rostos a week to any one player. It might hurt me for awhile, but I'll take a pixel hit to try to get a solution to this problem.

Edited December 4, 2009 by Nova

[groomsh]

This is a really good point, but we can't let these people stop us from trying. We can try to fight back with a thread naming known overpriced resellers so that everyone can decide if they want to sell to/buy from these people though.

Well, i don't sell anything to people i don't know or are not introduced by someone i know and trust.

I can do almost all things i need myself and have good friends who can make/sell me the rest for a fair price (and of course i do the same for them) ...

So i'm really not bothered by someone buying all rostos and selling them for whatever price ...

If people don't have friends in online game, it's a bit sad.

[PaulB]

Boycott's will never work because in a game like EL there always seem to be a demand so great for some items that people will fold and buy if they really want/need.

 

The only true way to fix the problem is to undercut the price hikers. PERIOD.

 

Problem with this is what someone already said before about people buying low and selling high (typical economical trend in real life and in games).

 

But there is a solution to this also....

 

If enough people feel that strongly about leveling out the prices on market then it's up to you to keep consistent with your prices no matter what else someone is doing with theirs.

 

If enough people keep items stocked and sell for a lower price then the people charging insane prices on items will no longer be able to sell unless they drop their prices.

 

Right now certain people are forcing others to pay much higher prices than needed and like good "sheep" lots follow this as a general guide as to the cost of items.

 

Why not band together and force these people to drop their prices by dropping your prices to a reasonable cost? Logical? I say yes.

 

So I will make this decree...

 

If I sell silver ore I will keep it priced at 2gc per even though people felt the need to inflate the price to 2.5 or even 3gc per ore.

 

If I decide to sell rostogol stones I will keep my price at 32Kgc unless market analysis deems the price lower, not higher.

 

If I decide to manu/sell swords/great swords I will sell them at fair market value.

 

 

If more people did these things then people like Learner and Holar would have one of two options.

 

1. Go out of business.

 

2. Drop their prices to meet current fair market value.

 

I would also suggest that some people get together and for the greater good of the community make a detailed list of items and what a fair cost for said items could be.

 

It would take some work but I feel that if something is not done soon EL market will completely crash (if it hasn't already) and EL will be nothing but greed and anger leading to lose of players/friendships/guilds/allies/$$ for devs and most important the fun people are supposed to have trying to enjoy the game.

Edited December 4, 2009 by PaulB

[Learner]

Auctually, the 50kgc price isn't to make money, I fully expect to lose money ... it to help encourage people to set the prices instead of bowing down to the bot price and complaining.

 

The is a free market and the Buyers & Sellers are both responsible for the problems in pricing.

[Usl]

Yesterday I mentioned on @6 that I see nothing so terrific in what Learner did, it's just a common market move - cause an artificial scarcity by hoarding stuff, then sell at higher prices. Of course I don't like it, will just wait for the only possible end - that Learner slowly releases the stones, or that the floating mass (the amount that is actually on the market) rebuilds up from finds, drops, and shop purchases. Any change in price Learner can cause with a finite (albeit large) amount of money available is temporary (albeit long, possibly). I will adjust, the game is about adjusting to changes, not just killing the same monster over and over (and over).

 

However, I found this comment particularly amusing:

4.Remove rraisa from the game, she damages peoples perception of the free market. it no longer is a free market when price fixing occurs, and with rraisa, price fixing has occured by proxy.

Since, you know,

bleh, this has been covered before, the more direct the price competition is (and aggregating data does this), the more price becomes important, the more prices drop, and the harder it is for everyone else as well

This is just a random sample of a large amount of criticism Rraisa received, in her primes, by bot owners that were worried that she would have forced fierce competition among bot owners, pushed prices down, reduced margins to 0, and thus destroy the economy.

Now you tell me that Rraisa is pushing prices up, making sales impossible, and thus destroy the economy.

 

In reality, she is doing neither: it is the humans (i.e., the players themselves) that set the prices, both on the selling and on the buying side. Market conditions change, and prices follow - prices are, after all, only the istantaneous agreement of two players that want to conclude a transaction. Don't put the blame where it doesn't belong; right now in the game there is more demand for certain items than supply, so prices go up. It's not even greed, it's how free-market economies work.

 

Also, compare the current situation about rostogols, with manuers complaining because their best weaponry is underpriced. Rraisa offers the exact same service for rostogols and for weaponry; yet people complain that prices for rostos are too high, and prices for manufactured items are too low. Nonsense, this is just the normal hiatus between expectations and reality, between wishful thinking and hard facts.

 

Just my .02 euros worth.

[ProHibited]

Players are smart enough to compare the prices themselves, just costs a few more minutes of their time. In the real world there are also tools to compare different prices.

[Wynand]

Go go go Learner

 

You Rawk!

[Learner]

Just remember, people boycotting me also won't be able to enjoy the 7gc HE's I've started getting on my bots.