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idefix

Item creation change

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I was just thinking about how - stupid? - the current item manufacturing / crafting etc. system currently is: you gather the ingredients, you have mini events. You also need rare stones from harvesting to get the ingredients. Then you click a button, and instantly you get your item. Yay...

 

How about making the final process of the creation a bit different? I don't really have a great plan for this, but to give an idea, here's an example:

 

For the strongest of items there is a special, magical anvil in some dangerous map (perhaps pk?) which is required to create the item. The manufacturing could last a while, maybe a minute or two, while a monster/wave attacks the anvil. As the manufacturer can't fight and create the item simulatenously, s/he needs guards to fend the mobs off. E.g. the dead dragon's spirit could attack when its scale is being used to create armor.

 

Might not have to be this extreme, but any small changes even would be better than just instantly getting the item created (with the cost of some food points, eek!).

 

Some of you might wonder what would be the use of this. Seems useless, right? Solo manufacturing en masse at the storage is fun \o/

 

I'd rather see guilds actually working together, equipping their fighters etc than having it so that it makes no difference if you do something together with 10 people or solo. Also this would improve the market for items; currently, the ingredients cost more than the item itself in some cases.

 

Maybe I'm crazy or something and this idea seems retarded to others, so constructive criticism is always welcome (flamers should stay away though).

 

Edit: of course I realise the suggestion ain't perfect as it is, e.g. it'd be a bit annoying to fight the mobs like 20 times in a row to make multiple swords, so maybe you could manufacture multiple items same time, but the more you do, the stronger the waves or something like that.

Edited by idefix

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While I agree, and it sounds like fun. There has been a long

time division between "fighters" and "mixers" and I doubt a change

to make mixers dependent on fighters will succeed.

 

Especially anything that would make mixers dependent on pkers.

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While I agree, and it sounds like fun. There has been a long

time division between "fighters" and "mixers" and I doubt a change

to make mixers dependent on fighters will succeed.

 

Especially anything that would make mixers dependent on pkers.

 

Interesting point, however isn't that already the case? If there were no fighters, and especially no pkers, who would buy summoning stones, essences, potions armors, weapons, etc? Also, fighters are dependent on mixers (good luck fighting without armor and weapons...). This idea would bring them more together, rather than separate them, no?

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For the strongest of items there is a special, magical anvil in some dangerous map (perhaps pk?) which is required to create the item. The manufacturing could last a while, maybe a minute or two, while a monster/wave attacks the anvil. As the manufacturer can't fight and create the item simulatenously, s/he needs guards to fend the mobs off. E.g. the dead dragon's spirit could attack when its scale is being used to create armor.

Actually I like this suggestion; we do have something along these lines already (harvesting hydrogenium ore, with PKers along the way), but it would be interesting to get the mixer (as opposed to any random fighter/harvester) in some dangerous place for which s/he needs backup. This would go in the same direction as instances (requiring teamwork), and even be integrated with that. Even the idea of getting, say, Godless removal only from dung harvested in instances went in the same direction. Of course, any obstacle placed on the mixer must be such that a Monster Magnetism perk or cape is not protection enough.

 

Not sure about the feasibility of long mixing delays though. Best thing would probably be to have high food requirements, or maybe needing to use a item with loooong cooldown more than once in the course of the mixing.

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While I agree, and it sounds like fun. There has been a long

time division between "fighters" and "mixers" and I doubt a change

to make mixers dependent on fighters will succeed.

 

Especially anything that would make mixers dependent on pkers.

 

Interesting point, however isn't that already the case? If there were no fighters, and especially no pkers, who would buy summoning stones, essences, potions armors, weapons, etc? Also, fighters are dependent on mixers (good luck fighting without armor and weapons...). This idea would bring them more together, rather than separate them, no?

 

Yes this true, no fighters means the purpose for most of the games items, cease to exist.

However, if you read past threads, you will find mixers insist this is not the case, and the game has

nothing to do with the existence of Pkers or PvEs. It has been a camp vs camp situation for a long time.

It would bring them together if anything that was said had any grounding in logic, it however has long been,

"This game is not just about fighting!11!". Read any thread related to pking, or PvE, and midway, it derails into

a mixer vs pker debate. To answer "who would buy?" from a mixer perspective, an NPC.

 

Here is the anti-fighter pker reply you will get:

"Yeah lets give pking guilds an advantage like they already don't have enough of one.

AD is already the easiest skill to level now you want to make it so they are the only ones

that can mix high end items...How am I suppose to level as fast as pk guild can? I can't fight a

dragon and why should I to make armor???"

 

I could go on, but good luck with your idea, I like it.

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...

The manufacturing could last a while, maybe a minute or two, while a monster/wave attacks the anvil. As the manufacturer can't fight and create the item simulatenously, s/he needs guards to fend the mobs off.

...

Also this would improve the market for items; currently, the ingredients cost more than the item itself in some cases.

...

Maybe I'm crazy or something and this idea seems retarded to others, so constructive criticism is always welcome (flamers should stay away though).

...

so maybe you could manufacture multiple items same time, but the more you do, the stronger the waves or something like that.

 

I don't like this idea, generates player's dependence, and that isn't good. Could you imagine to gain one level over 100's in any mixing skill using this metod? It will take a year at least...

Prices will raise even more than actually are raising.

 

I see a bunch of ideas wich don't connect logicaly between them.

 

Besides i think it goes against the essence of the game...

 

Eternal Lands differs from other role-playing games in that there are no character classes — a character is not tied to a profession or set of racial attributes. Every character can do everything the others can do. Background, attributes and profession can be developed during gameplay and changed anytime.

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There won't be issue with leveling, because only the top stuff are made at the special location.

 

Mixers often have quite competent fighter friends who may or may not be mixers themselves too. You aren't just PKer or Mixer, it's possible to be both np. This is the essence of game, yes. What it would bring is either teamwork or "I will never mix again :S"

Those "guardian mobs" need to be not dropping and no exp to not turn it into abusing. Though some reward system in slaying the beasts might be interesting.

 

I think it's interesting, dunno if it'd fit in EL, but interesting :pickaxe:

 

#edit: forgot to add this needs a global message on highest level items "playerx is trying to create xxx and has angered the spirits bla bla bla" And of course triggering "guardians" can be made based on % and not happen every time.

Edited by Dugur

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To answer "who would buy?" from a mixer perspective, an NPC.

 

Here is the anti-fighter pker reply you will get:

"Yeah lets give pking guilds an advantage like they already don't have enough of one.

AD is already the easiest skill to level now you want to make it so they are the only ones

that can mix high end items...How am I suppose to level as fast as pk guild can? I can't fight a

dragon and why should I to make armor???"

 

But why would anyone make ice dragon sets just to sell it to NPCs? Why would any mixer make COLs for exp? I don't think many great swords have been made in schools, either.

 

This would also not make any change to game roles / classes. Even now, with the nexus limiting your skills, you can not possibly be the best fighter if you want to also be a mixer (unless you buy your nexuses, ofc). You can still be both a mixer and a fighter though, if you want. Just takes a lot of time to train. Most people do specialize in some skills, even though they don't have to. The difference to other games is that you can CHANGE your specialization (#reset) whenever you want, without making a new char.

 

This would, however, make it necessary for people to be in guilds, but is this really a bad change? It is a MMORPG after all, a massively MULTIPLAYER online roleplaying game. Maybe it's supposed to be about doing stuff together, rather than playing alone? This could easily have a roleplaying background as well, so it would fit in.

 

However, as dugur said, such a change would make the mixing part of the game quite drastically different, and it is of course arguable if the change would be for the better or worse.

Edited by idefix

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I would instantly stop being a mixer when this or anything alike this would ever be implemented..

For at least 2 reasons:

 

1 - I dont want to be independent of anyone when i play a game, no matter what game..

2 - I really dont wanna sit and wait for 2 mins just to make 1 item, some things in this game are as slow as it is already

 

 

Why make this game less fun for mixers more and more, first we get the crazy mini events (without harving we can

t mix), we already had the continues breaking of pickaxes, and now we also want to add the fact that fighters should protect us while we make things..

 

I can see the mmorpg idea in this, but it would make the game less fun if u would have to wait for certain fighters to back u up when u wanna make some items, if the fighters (once u bought stuff the mixer made the first time u helped him u dont have to buy it in a while again) arent in need of anything, my role in the game is done??

 

I can see by the latest changes that the kill mixing and lets fight more era is started (mini events only is kill material by itself already), but implementing this would instantly kill mixing imo..

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1 - I dont want to be independent of anyone when i play a game, no matter what game..
???

 

About the topic, i think it would be pr0 only if there is some way to mix an uber item, like OSOMN... You can get a formula for it, but there are a chance it would spawn an evil monster, etc, it could be fun. Not for every item, ofc.

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This idea seems to be a good one if you want to provide uber PKers with loads of expencive stuff, they would just camp in the cave waiting for some poor bastard and his crew to get there and then kill em and collect the goodies and i am pretty sure no one is willing to lose some/all the ingreds they got together to make high lvl items like dragon armors and so on or lose several rostos trying..

 

Make it No drop you say? Well then this idea has no point since the PKers wants drops and the whole thing loses its meaning.

 

In the end this idea will only make it so only a few ppl (PKers with high manu lvl or their friends) would be able to use the cave and controll the market so bad idea imo

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I like the idea that mixing of certain objects are bound on certain places.

It would present the reality that you can only mix highlevel potions, alchemic stuff, in special chemestry labors,

That you can make difficult armors and weapons only at certain blacksmiths or that the craft of engeniering and molding of objects need some specialiced working places.

What i resent is the fact that those places must be dangerous. I do not like to fight, or that other people needs to fight just to let me do, what work i want to do. It is one thing of the game that i like, that you are able to chose your way. If you want to play this game without violence, you can do it. And thats good, and should be keept.

 

My suggestion is, make some of the mixing stuff only avaiable in special workingplaces. Put those places away from the storages so that the people have to drag their stuff to those places so that if they want to make huge amounts of mixes at one time, they eighter need to haul a lot of stuff to the place at one time, or get other people to do that work for them.

Give the mixer something in return for the burdon maybe a slightly better success rate. Maybe the way to one or the other of this workshops should go through dangerous areas like it is for certain harvesting areas. But make it possible that a mixer can make at least one item get in and out of the place without having the nessesary to fight. Even if it is only possible for them if they have the right cloaks, perks, potions, spells ...

I want that the game keeps to be one, where you at least theoretically can go through without using a weapon even once.

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This idea seems to be a good one if you want to provide uber PKers with loads of expencive stuff, they would just camp in the cave waiting for some poor bastard and his crew to get there and then kill em and collect the goodies and i am pretty sure no one is willing to lose some/all the ingreds they got together to make high lvl items like dragon armors and so on or lose several rostos trying..

 

Make it No drop you say? Well then this idea has no point since the PKers wants drops and the whole thing loses its meaning.

 

In the end this idea will only make it so only a few ppl (PKers with high manu lvl or their friends) would be able to use the cave and controll the market so bad idea imo

 

For the strongest of items there is a special, magical anvil in some dangerous map (perhaps pk?) which is required to create the item.

.

.

Might not have to be this extreme

 

Sometimes reading before posting helps. "Perhaps pk" with a questionmark doesn't really say that the only way this idea would work would be if it were a pk map. It would just add a little bit more to the danger, but as I also said, it would make it a bit extreme.

 

I would instantly stop being a mixer when this or anything alike this would ever be implemented..

For at least 2 reasons:

 

1 - I dont want to be independent of anyone when i play a game, no matter what game..

2 - I really dont wanna sit and wait for 2 mins just to make 1 item, some things in this game are as slow as it is already

 

- - if the fighters (once u bought stuff the mixer made the first time u helped him u dont have to buy it in a while again) arent in need of anything, my role in the game is done??

 

By the context I assume you mean the absolute opposite: that you don't want to be dependant of anyone else while playing. This is a fair point and obviously this idea, just like any other, has its downsides. I just believe bringing people closer and making them work together more outweighs them.

 

If I understood correctly, you are worried that fighters won't help you manu anymore after you have mixed their gear? Then you might consider changing guilds, if you feel your guild is only using you as a tool to gain equipment. In my mind, at least, a guild works so that everyone helps eachother in every way they can.

 

As to your second point, I also addressed that in my OP:

 

maybe you could manufacture multiple items same time, but the more you do, the stronger the waves or something like that.

 

 

What i resent is the fact that those places must be dangerous.

 

Also a good point; didn't think about that at all. However, the whole point of this idea was to make it a bit more "challenging" to manufacture items. Currently, manufacturing even the best gear available in game is somewhat easy, as you merely have to spend the time to get the ingredients. The market is full of the best gear, and no one is wearing mediocre gear anymore. It wasn't always like this, and working hard to get the best gear in the game is something I find good. It might not make the current situation any better, but something like this for the future could be considered, for when they add new items.

Edited by idefix

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Either your A/D is above 125,or your Alts is...

...otherwise you wouldnt want this to happen in a PK Area. Once again, here is another prime example of the Power Hungry Republicans wanting to keep the rich-rich,and the poor-poor...and make an even larger gap between the players.

Why not make the most powerfull Weapons and Strongest Armors "makable by players with Manu 0 to 10 in level ?? Let Them sell it to the Higher level players and get rich at the start of the Game... make the n44biez feel important...not like piss ants with no-hope of EVER getting ANYWHERE in this game.

I keep tellin' you all...day in and day out: If you keep making the gaps wider and wider between new and advanced players, this Beta game is gonna' fall flat on its face...'cause the ratiio of returning new players,( not Alts ) is gonna' fall off the chart.

 

Tokie

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You all know how 'dangerous' it is to get to hydro, even rutuliukas doesn't seem to bother too much anymore. I would actually not see a problem at all if such a location would be hidden behind a PK area. Within a week or 2 after it would be implemented, people will be done lurking for prey, and there will just be the occasional opportunist who will try and annoy people, or make them poof a brick or whatever. Nothing you can't avoid by using your brains, common sense, and network.

 

PS, for the record, Tokie, my a/d isn't 125+, and nor is my alt's ^^

Edited by Dilly

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This idea seems to be a good one if you want to provide uber PKers with loads of expencive stuff, they would just camp in the cave waiting for some poor bastard and his crew to get there and then kill em and collect the goodies
K, i stopped reading right here... have a nice day. No point in discussing with raging anti-pk fanatics... Edited by Lorck

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Either your A/D is above 125,or your Alts is...

...otherwise you wouldnt want this to happen in a PK Area. Once again, here is another prime example of the Power Hungry Republicans wanting to keep the rich-rich,and the poor-poor...and make an even larger gap between the players.

Why not make the most powerfull Weapons and Strongest Armors "makable by players with Manu 0 to 10 in level ?? Let Them sell it to the Higher level players and get rich at the start of the Game... make the n44biez feel important...not like piss ants with no-hope of EVER getting ANYWHERE in this game.

I keep tellin' you all...day in and day out: If you keep making the gaps wider and wider between new and advanced players, this Beta game is gonna' fall flat on its face...'cause the ratiio of returning new players,( not Alts ) is gonna' fall off the chart.

 

Tokie

 

Not even close. You're way off with everything what you said :(

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Slim's prediction:

 

This thread will become a meaningless flamewar very soon.

 

 

While I'm posting, I may as well give my opinion. I don't like the idea of forcing players to do things they very much don't want to do. That includes making peaceful mixers go to dangerous areas.

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Instead of forced combat to increase interest in mixing, what about mouse gestures? You set the recipe in the mixture window, click mix (Maybe only works for mix all? Or mix one? But in mix one, it becomes a multi-mixer?), then do some gesture, depending on the object being made, to progress on/make the object.

 

For instance: a zigzag gesture for sewing leather, an alternating vertical motion for hammering metal bars/rings/medallions/armors/weapons, a swirl motion for potions/alchemy, a waving motion for summoning.

 

For every gesture you progress a certain amount on the object depending on a formula based on your skill level and the item's recommended level, with the current chances to fail still taking effect when the object's progress reaches 100% (Maybe tweaked a bit in favor of those who choose to use gestures.)... Whenever you finish mixing, just click the mix button again to stop it from mixing more by mistake.

 

 

Just an idea..

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Instead of forced combat to increase interest in mixing, what about mouse gestures? You set the recipe in the mixture window, click mix (Maybe only works for mix all? Or mix one? But in mix one, it becomes a multi-mixer?), then do some gesture, depending on the object being made, to progress on/make the object.

 

For instance: a zigzag gesture for sewing leather, an alternating vertical motion for hammering metal bars/rings/medallions/armors/weapons, a swirl motion for potions/alchemy, a waving motion for summoning.

 

For every gesture you progress a certain amount on the object depending on a formula based on your skill level and the item's recommended level, with the current chances to fail still taking effect when the object's progress reaches 100% (Maybe tweaked a bit in favor of those who choose to use gestures.)... Whenever you finish mixing, just click the mix button again to stop it from mixing more by mistake.

 

 

Just an idea..

 

I can see everyone been eat by the Grue at storages :cry:

Edited by dipi

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The idea of making high level items only at special places far away from storages is already implemented. If you make something that has a high ingred cost, I think most mixers will go spend the 25 gc at the manu or craft god's priest to get a blessing :)

 

Please don't make high level items even more tedious to make, you already spend huge amount of time making and collecting all the ingreds for the ingreds for the ingreds ....

 

The hazard is already in collecting the ingreds, braving Lenny or even pk-ers ;) Only if monsters ignore MM will they impress the mixers.

 

All in all I don't see any merit in this proposal, except maybe adding a special anvil in the manu temple or some such thing which has to be 'used' to get the blessing. But that would be pure for looks and roleplay.

 

my 2gc

 

Maxine

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