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korrode

New Combat Level formula

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Old combat level formula:

REACTION + TOUGHNESS + DEXTERITY + 3/4 ATTACK + 3/4 DEFENSE + 1/2 MATTER

 

We've recently been given some information from Radu which proves this formula to have some incorrect weights.

 

Why did it seem to work quite well in the past?

Weighting Reaction and Dexterity at 1.0 (but Attack and Defense at only 0.75) worked well enough (especially pre-attrib-cap) because the main attribute that fighters take that gives Dex and React also gives Might.

 

The damage absorbing attribute has always been used in CL calculation, why the damage dealing attribute wasn't used, i can't say, but it should be.

 

We've also now got different combat rolls for PvP and PvE, so we'll need 2 different combat level formulas.

 

As starting points, i suggest the following:

 

PvE formula:

3/4 Reaction + 3/4 Dexterity + Toughness + Might + 3/4 Attack + 3/4 Defense + 1/2 Matter

 

PvP formula:

3/5 Reaction + 3/5 Dexterity + Toughness + Might + 3/4 Attack + 3/4 Defense + 1/2 Matter

 

 

 

Does anyone have calculations they believe would work better for calculating melee strength?

(obviously testing will be needed either way)

 

 

EDIT:

Since I may be hosting a CL based PK tournament soon, I got around to putting up a site for calculating CL's based on these new formulas.

 

http://www.paradoxcomputers.com.au/el_cl.php

 

If people could check their PvE CL whenever a monster has just started ignoring them, would be great.

Really your full stats when it stopped ignoring would be much appreciated, to further refine the formula.

 

EDIT: Just added 3 'test' CL calculations, if everyone could please post all of the produced CL's it'll make it quicker and easier to determine how the server calculates ignore levels.

Edited by Korrode

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After your new PvE Formula the weight of Coordintion and Physique is 38,5% for both and Attack and Defence play a role with 23% together.

 

The old formula says:

 

Physique: 27%

Coordination: 36%

A+D: 36%

 

 

I like the idea that C & P have an equal weight in your formula. Interesting that a/d counts less then 1/4, I wish it was more.

Ok this is the asumption that you take only a/d/p/c into consideration.

 

But we are dealing with cross attributes here and therefore:

 

 

P: 22,73%

C: 22,73%

R: 6,82%

W: 4,55%

I: 6,82%

V: 9,09%

A+D: 27,27%

----------------

100%

Edited by SolarStar

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Korrode, as far as i know, 2 reaction would be equal to 1 defence level

and 2 dexterity is equal to 1 attack level.

BUT Defence and Attack provide also extra armor / damage.

With your calculation (PvE)

2 reaction = 1.5 combat lvl's

1 defence = 0.75 combat lvl's (although it should be even higher than 1.5!!)

 

So my suggestion is to calculate 1 reaction = 0.375 (as well as dexterity).

You might say that 2 reaction is equal to 1 defence, but just with the advantage

of NOT getting less experience. (1 defence you know = 1 less def exp)

But you want to indicate the strength and not the "training value" of those

attributes and levels :rolleyes:

 

And if you want to start to give "damage" also some value,

you should continue with counting armor + weapon too,

what would be really good imo!!

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Korrode, as far as i know, 2 reaction would be equal to 1 defence level

and 2 dexterity is equal to 1 attack level.

Erm, well then... as far as you know is wrong :medieval:

 

Radu himself actually recently confirmed for us that 1 dex = 1 att in the combat roll, and that still is the case for the PvE combat roll, but, he recently changed the PVP combat roll so that 3/4 of your dex/react is used, and what used to be the remaining 1/4 is randomly generated.

 

...and i'm not quite sure where you'd have got the idea that 1 def/att would be worth 2 react/dex, as in the past we had near consensus that we believed dex and react were actually worth more than att and def (eg. see old combat level formula that weighted att & def @ 0.75, and dex & react @ 1.00)

 

 

And if you want to start to give "damage" also some value,

you should continue with counting armor + weapon too,

what would be really good imo!!

Well weapon and armor is something that can change mid-combat, so it's not really viable to determine a characters combat level.

Edited by Korrode

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[radu @ 6]: in combat there are 2 important things

[radu @ 6]: chance to hit, and damage

[radu @ 6]: both are calculated from a/d and cross attributes

[radu @ 6]: now you already know that

[radu @ 6]: for chance to hit, both the attributes and a/d play the same role

[radu @ 6]: however, for damage, the a/d are TWICE as heavy as the attributes

[radu @ 6]: I mean cross attributes

[radu @ 6]: so if you get 12 PPs, that means 6 cross attributes

[radu @ 6]: at best, they equal 3 a/d (or 6 a or 6 d)

[radu @ 6]: and at worst, they equal 1.5 a/d

[radu @ 6]: I mean 0.5*

[radu @ 6]: per a/d

[radu @ 6]: so as you can see, say you have 60 PPs bought

[radu @ 6]: then at the very most that's 15 a/d

[radu @ 6]: or 7.5 a/d when calculated for damage

[radu @ 6]: so not the end of the fuckign world

[radu @ 6]: a good armor or sword is worth more

 

Ok, i misunderstood it. Out of these words i read following:

 

1 reaction = 1 defence

1 defence = 2 toughness

1 reasoning = 1 attack

1 attack = 2 might

 

According to this you would have to weight 1 Attack(/Defence) like 2 Might+1 Reasoning (/2 Toughness+1 Reaction)

So my point is still the same =)

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[radu @ 6]: however, for damage, the a/d are TWICE as heavy as the attributes

[radu @ 6]: I mean cross attributes

This was a mistake, Radu later corrected himself, when i pulled him up on it :pickaxe:

 

a/d are not worth twice might/toughness in the damage/absorb rolls, they are worth MUCH less.

(this should be blatantly obvious for anyone who's trained a lot in EL, 2 people with same Might, but one with 120 att and other with 100 att don't have like 30+ difference in the damage they do when they hit)

 

I'm pretty sure he misread "att * 0.2" as "att * 2".

 

 

EDIT:

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.p...st&p=515532

[08:21:25] [radu @ 6]: ok, remmeber what I said earlier about the nexuses mattering less than a/d for damage calculation?

[08:21:34] [radu @ 6]: I was wrong

[08:22:17] [Korrode @ 6]: attack level not 2x as strong as Might... i can't believe someone else didnt' pick u up on it at the time B)

Edited by Korrode

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Since I may be hosting a CL based PK tournament soon, I got around to putting up a site for calculating CL's based on these new formulas.

 

http://www.paradoxcomputers.com.au/el_cl.php

 

If people could check their PvE CL whenever a monster has just started ignoring them, would be great.

Really your full stats when it stopped ignoring would be much appreciated, to further refine the formula.

 

EDIT: Just added 3 'test' CL calculations, if everyone could please post all of the produced CL's it'll make it quicker and easier to determine how the server calculates ignore levels.

Edited by Korrode

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Fluffy ignore: PvE Combat Level: 241.5

 

85 att

91 def

30 dex

28 rea

38 mig

18 tou

20 mat

and so the 3 test CL results would have been:

PvE CL Test1: 290

PvE CL Test2: 300

PvE CL Test3: 262

 

Thanks heaps :)

Hopefully a few more people can post their details when fluff starts ignoring.

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Hopefully a few more people can post their details when fluff starts ignoring.

 

This might help: at

 

85 att

86 def

25 dex

21 rea

31 mig

15 tou

24 mat

 

I am below the ignore; however, if I use a/d potions to get +5/+5, I get exactly at the fluffy ignore level.

As soon as either bonus drops to +4, the fluffy attacks.

 

I don't provide combat levels, I've no time enough now to read previous emails, but I reckon that you can compute it from previous data. I also assume that the armor does not affect the results, but in case of doubt, I tested with full titan + uni + COL +NMT. Hope this helps!

 

Xam

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This might help: at

 

85 att

86 def

25 dex

21 rea

31 mig

15 tou

24 mat

 

I am below the ignore; however, if I use a/d potions to get +5/+5, I get exactly at the fluffy ignore level.

As soon as either bonus drops to +4, the fluffy attacks.

 

I don't provide combat levels, I've no time enough now to read previous emails, but I reckon that you can compute it from previous data. I also assume that the armor does not affect the results, but in case of doubt, I tested with full titan + uni + COL +NMT. Hope this helps!

 

Xam

Thanks for the stats :)

 

So with +5 on your attack and defense it's:

 

PvP Combat Level: 221.35

 

PvE CL Test1: 273

PvE CL Test2: 285

PvE CL Test3: 250

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I just found out that Yeti, Cockatrice and MCW are ignoring me. I can't say though if they started ignoring me very recently, but they do.

 

Using your calculator i get the following results:

 

PvP Combat Level: 258.75

PvE Combat Level: 267.75

 

PvE CL Test1: 323

PvE CL Test2: 333

PvE CL Test3: 292

 

Hope that's of some help...

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Both myself, my friend and also massimoc had one thing in common when fluffs ignored us, 91 defence. Not saying that is the ignore level now but he had higher attributes than me but the same defence level, so it seems they now ignore on defence alone, and also massimoc seems to have lower attributes all round than I had. I know massimoc says when either a/d drop to +4 but if he used them both at the same time he could be mistaken, would be nice if he could test with only defence pot.

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I was at the following stats at my fluffy ignore: -

 

 

Attack: 89

Defense:91

 

Attributes in order: 24/48/20/6/12/16

 

 

Wdit thought I'd mention: the ignore occured the moment I leveled into 91 defence. I fled with the home key, and thereafter I am being ignored.

Edited by TuDaeFadda

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