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Dugur

Remove PP buying

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korrode,radu said that before attributes were caped at 48.
He also said in that same thread that few people would be able to buy more than 10 pps (nexus at the time). If he knew about the pp buying fest, probably he would have a different oppinion.
pp buying is not doing any damage to the game itself.its rly not like that that u cant kill or beat some1 who bought pps.
Ah, if you team them up with many people (while they are alone) or spam them with many strong summoneds, thats what some people call easy.
yust cuz some ppl cant,or dont want to put hard work,or $,to buy pps doesnt mean it should be removed.
There are MANY reasons for pp buying being removed.
And lolol@this topic is started by 1 mage,i mean all he do is:come ivni,harm,d/t...
Who cares? Actually, do you have some better argument than "the topic was started by a mage"?
but ye,we got used to those ppl who dont no shit but cry,like Juvenal(lorck),i mean wtf he dont even pk
Who said i don't pk? I don't sit in kf all day, but i do pk. And i did more in pk than you probably will do in all your existance. Btw, its the same thing about dugur, some guys flames people because they can't really provide any good argument
or mixers,harvesters posting to improve combat system,pk.
Yes, mixers don't play the game, and when they do play its only for harvest/mix, they can't fight sometimes because this is a restricted class game. Btw, this last statement is sarcasm, obviously, but probably infamous will quote it without context. :)

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Alot of people have stated in their opinion why removing them would be good for the game long term, but no ones has really giving any opinions about how they think "for the game long term " it would be good left in.

 

Has anyone got any good reasons why it should be left in ?

 

 

 

 

 

note: Just curious, doesnt bother me if they kept in or removed tbh

 

weaker players can catch up to the stronger a/d players faster, i know some lower levels who got more bought pp then most top 50 a/d.

that would mean they dont have to train as much to get to the lvls of fighting a higher level, while they do put in hard work for getting the gc.

someone said lower levels get discouraged by having to train 5-10 years to stand a chance in kf, and that pp buying would solve it.

on the contrary, pp buying gives them the oppurtunity to have to train less then that to stand a chance.

 

nobody suggested the pps should be removed without compensation.

i dont invent stuff, did anyone ever say anything about giving compensation? even if ppl get compensated..wtf lorck, what are you thinking?

do you know how much millions worth of gc would come into the game and ruin the economy?

some players would get 50s million compensated for their pp, others 10s millions, get what that does to an economy?

 

And there are ways to get the stuff balanced without removing the pp buying thing completly.

what is there to balance? nexus removals dont drop from the sky, they are rare, they get auctioned, and everyone has chances to win those auctions with hard work, yes lower players have less and higher more, but thats what higher lvls trained hard for right? hard work training Vs reward, the more hard work u put in the more rewards. makes sense? to u it doesnt... :)

 

If it gets unrealistic for newbies to catch the pr0s, they would not try to catch. And pk always needs "new blood", because the oldbies would stop playing sooner or later (nobody plays forever). Just read Korrode's estimative of "completing" the endgame, it takes around 8-10 years o.O, a bit long no?

 

atleast now they have a way to catch the higher levels quicker, when u remove pp buying they still have to train 5-10 years...

you think the game is solely based on PP? no, even if you remove them players worked those 5-10 years to train their a/d, so even without pp a newbie would take the same time to catch up.. use some common sense..

 

no need to argue with you anymore, you own yourself B)

10 pps at a time? lol, how long have u been playing? find me a topic where 10 nexus removals have been bought by someone at 1 time.

ill make it easier for you, find some proof of people buying 10 nexus removals in a week.

it took toomass like what, 2 years to get 50 bought pp? so where does your arguementation of pp buying fest come from? inventing stuff?

 

and no1 said ganging up with many people, i said 1 guildie, and it worked, more inventing?

arctic summoning summons 8 chims at a time now, not very expensive, kills everything, easy? yes, hard? if retard, yes

 

Who said i don't pk? I don't sit in kf all day, but i do pk.

u did in the past, but that doesnt count. never seen u in kf since u started again, others havent either. pk central never announces kills from mr pr0 lorck, or deaths. u do show up but hide? or dont go pk anymore and invent more stuff?

 

your post make no sense lorck, if i quote something out of context its because you either invent something to make it out of context, or talk more nonsense to bs ur way out of it without proving anything :)

Edited by Infamous

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[infamous @ 6]: he is the only one who could say banana's are blue, and say you are wrong when u say they are yellow, even after slapping him in the face with one<-----thats lorck,so i dont see any reason to talk wit u about this tbh:P

and lorck plz,no1 cares about ur past,k.

and u do not pk:> ,stop to talk bs.

sry for going off topic.

 

Infamous <3 doing good work here,proving pp buying dont need to be removed

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someone said lower levels get discouraged by having to train 5-10 years to stand a chance in kf, and that pp buying would solve it.
Its a myth that you need 5-10 years to stand a chance in pk. I have trained my char for less than 2 years if you count only the time i actually trained, and was not outside of the game. While i am not the most powerful person ever, i am still on top 50, even after having stopped more than 2 years.
on the contrary, pp buying gives them the oppurtunity to have to train less then that to stand a chance.
No, it doesn't absolutely. Even more in the way its done. Since its linear, high level fighters can buy their pps continually... So if the uber fighters keep buying their pps, no newbie could ever get the same number of pickpoints of the uber fighter. At least in the way it is implemented right now.
i dont invent stuff, did anyone ever say anything about giving compensation?
Yes, Dugur right in the first post. And most people in this thread. Hell, i am saying stuff about compensation in almost EVERY POST since you keep claiming otherwise. If you can't read that either you have some serious reading problem (dyslexia ftl? :)) or its malice.
even if ppl get compensated..wtf lorck, what are you thinking?

do you know how much millions worth of gc would come into the game and ruin the economy?

some players would get 50s million compensated for their pp, others 10s millions, get what that does to an economy?

There are other ways of compensation without giving the people millions of gc. And even the millions of gc would be less imbalanced than the pickpoints, imho, since the gc was generated in game anyway.
what is there to balance? nexus removals dont drop from the sky, they are rare
There are many imbalances, you can read them above. But i think you already did. Anyways, let me point them all AGAIN: linear progression at the high levels (which means more or less: much LESS chances for new people to catch up), fewer character diversity, "endless" endgame, etc.
they get auctioned, and everyone has chances to win those auctions with hard work, yes lower players have less and higher more
Guess who gets the nexus stones?You guessed right.
but thats what higher lvls trained hard for right? hard work training Vs reward, the more hard work u put in the more rewards. makes sense?
And the rewards should not be linear, its this way in all rpgs i know, it was this way even in EL.[
atleast now they have a way to catch the higher levels quicker, when u remove pp buying they still have to train 5-10 years...
They don't have realistic chances right now, the folks who are already high level is those who buy the pps in the first place. And if they keep doing so, there is almost no way for a newbie to get the same numbers on PP.
you think the game is solely based on PP? no, even if you remove them players worked those 5-10 years to train their a/d, so even without pp a newbie would take the same time to catch up.. use some common sense..
They will buy pps when they are low level?? There are better ways to improve OA than pp buying for many/most people. The ones who benefit the most are people who have already great OA. If you want top 1 or top 5 maybe its need 5-10 years, but again, for top 50 it required me "only" 2 years. And i did not only trained a/d, i trained a bit other skills too, and pked a lot, pked your whole guild in the same day, for instance, many times.

 

EDIT: Adi: Attacks on people doesn't prove anything, it only hints that you don't have better arguments. And i do pk, did it recently, and i guess you don't with your amazing hp.

Edited by Lorck

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Its a myth that you need 5-10 years to stand a chance in pk. I have trained my char for less than 2 years

 

then why the hell bring it up as an arguement to change/remove pp buying???

 

more nonsense from you, didnt read further then that, get some good arguements first then post

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Its a myth that you need 5-10 years to stand a chance in pk. I have trained my char for less than 2 years

 

then why the hell bring it up as an arguement to change/remove pp buying???

Simple: to get high levels of a/d is NOT REQUIRED 5-10 years as you said. Its not required to buy chars either. That is due to the nice exponential progression of the skills.

But if people buy tons of pickpoints, you need those too if you want to get the same chances on pk (no, gang them when they are alone or spam strong summoneds on them are not "the same chances").

more nonsense from you
Care to point the nonsense? I bet you would do, if you could do that. Btw, the whole story of "weak people can buy pps to catch up" is more of a fallacy then of an argument, since those who are already strong are the ones who are buying the pps.

 

And yes, i think its ridiculous the notion that lower levels should really be buying pps rather than buying armor/essences for training.

EDIT: and one of my post above is good (at least i think :)) to show some GOOD REASONS to get the pp buying thing removed/slowed, and i would love to read one good reason for the pp buying to stay the way it is right now.

Edited by Lorck

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korrode mentioned 5-10 years training to get to high lvls

thats where you got your argument from

 

once again lorck, get some good arguments and dont invent stuff

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korrode mentioned 5-10 years training to get to high lvls

thats where you got your argument from

Hmm, lets read what the "master" korrode wrote:
5+ years?

 

...and remember every year that rolls by, that's another year to that counter...

next year it will be 6 years to 'end game' in EL, the year after 7 years, then 8 years, then 9 years... then finally someone will be 48 all attributes, have no neg perks, every nexus and every positive perk...

...and new PvP oriented players will see EL, go "lol 10 years till end-game?? fuck that", and all EL PK will be is big time oldbies and char buyers, there wont be any new meat, the PvP playerbase will go stagnant.

Exactly, no mention about a/d at all. And ofc it should not be mentioned, because the a/d levels are balanced. This is of course not true with the pp buying, and again korrode is right, every year the pp buying stay the way it is right now is one more year added on to the new players "catch" the high level ones
once again lorck, get some good arguments and dont invent stuff
Care to elaborate? I don't invented anything, as you can clearly see on korrode's post. One more thing: i have doing 1 by one 1 rebuttals on each of your "arguments", and i ask you to do the same in at least some of mine, and you don't. And there are still many good arguments AGAINST the thing you simply does not address, and i am still waiting to see good arguments FOR the thing.

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ugh mr know it all, u said yourself that it takes 2 years with just training, cant do that in no way.

get some sense, let someone knock it into you by force if neccesary cuz its going nowhere with u

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ugh mr know it all, u said yourself that it takes 2 years with just training, cant do that in no way.
You can do get my levels of a/d in 2 years, i know because i did that. They are not great, but they are good at least in my opinion.

And you keep claiming that i wrote stuff that i don't wrote (aka inventing stuff). I never claimed "to get the same number of PP's of (lets say) kgxjeff without buying gc you need less than 5 years" that is the more or less what korrode was trying to say.

get some sense, let someone knock it into you by force if neccesary cuz its going nowhere with u
I <3 you too. :) Btw, don't do the chewbacca defense, don't try to warp the topic, there are MANY reasons for pp buying getting removed and you simply don't address it, you just try to let the discussion go offtopic. Edited by Lorck

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End game = got tired of all the whining from folk or decided the game was no longer worth playing

 

End game is not mastering the game. Besides, you have to master being a living breathing human being of a player to truly master the game. This is a social game.

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rofl lorck, i done nothing but give good reasons to keep it as is or simply keep it in-game and prove your reasonings false.

if it went off-topic any way, its cause you bring up off-topic stuff that makes no sense to begin with

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rofl lorck, i done nothing but give good reasons to keep it as is or simply keep it in-game and prove your reasonings false.
Your reasons are "everyone can do it"? It was proved that it is not balanced reasoning at all, since an overpowered thing would still be overpowered if everyone can use that. Or "new players have better chance of catch up because of pp buying" holds really no water (at all) either, its pretty much the opposite. New players have a hell lot of hard time to catch if this stay this way.

Read the reasons why its the way it is above, you don't dismissed either of the reasonings. And you also don't dismissed the fact of excess of pick points decreases the variety of character builds, and that a linear "growing curve" at high levels is totally imbalanced.

if it went off-topic any way, its cause you bring up off-topic stuff that makes no sense to begin with
You gone off-topic to warp the discussion. You also quoted out of context while you was doing that. And you still failed.

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The point lorck and Korrode are making is.. imagine this game is still about in another 5-6 years and PP buying has been kept.. How many player by then are going to have stupidily high stats ?

So not only will "new future" players have to spend X amount of time playing to catch up to a/d they will also have to spend X amount of time/gc or $ to catch up with bought PP's

 

PP buying inbalanced now ?.. not really.. but in the future the inbalance will grow with each passing year... so for the "long term" future its bad for the game

Edited by conavar

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increase exp for lower lvls to catch up to the higher ones faster, good to attract newbies and keeps the current playerbase happy.

 

was proved that it is not balanced reasoning at all

 

you havent proved anything at all

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increase exp for lower lvls to catch up to the higher ones faster, good to attract newbies and keeps the current playerbase happy.

Would also need to make hydro pickpoints way cheaper.

Like increase nexus rem stone find rate 30-fold, and make hydro nex need only one hydro bar... so new players can reach (near) 'end-game' within a reasonable amount of time.

 

Doing that would balance things, but all strategy in attribute and perk selection would be removed, and imo that would be a big downfall for many different aspects of the game.

Edited by Korrode

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wheres the strategy in placing your pp for yeti's?

did you make your attribute build for pk when you did MC?

just saying everyone would go for the attribute build thats best for training monsters, end result being the same as with pp buying.

atleast now some unused positive perks are used

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its available to all
This does not make *ANY* sense. Imagine a spell that instakill. Its not overpowered, since everyone can cast it (or build a char to cast it). If its available to all, in *ANY* way it means it is not overpowered.
the linear fashion crap is the same in every game, its normal. its like that in WoW aswell, the stronger you get, the better equipment you can have, the more gold it costs, the more you are able to earn, you just need to work for it.
No, WOW has hard caps, at level 70, I don't know of a single rpg game where your attributes or levels scale linearly, and it seems you don't know either. I will make here the same challenge i did to you on the ch6: just name ONE at least half-succesful game (excluding EL) where your attributes or stats goes up in a linear way, just name one and i drop out of the discussion.

 

The games were designed that way for one reason. EL was designed this way too in the beginning, and people still says that before the "pp buying" fest the game was more balanced.

note that last part, you need to work for it. if you dont want to then dont complain at forums how those who do work for it are overpowered, thats selfish
Name one person in this thread who said the work put on the chars should not be rewarded... why you complain for something people did not even suggested?

 

Silkroad, WoW.

 

first one you can get exp tickets, silver and gold, one triples exp for 12 hours, the other for 24 hours.

WoW, all you have to do is recruit a friend, 3 times as much exp then usual (you can get 1-60 in 20mins there)

 

no half-succesfull games, WoW has 9million players, Silkroads servers are always full to the max

knowing you, you wont drop out of the discussion, so lets hear the excuse why those games arent valid ^^

Edited by Infamous

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first one you can get exp tickets, silver and gold, one triples exp for 12 hours, the other for 24 hours.
Do you have ANY CLUE about what i was talking about? I bet you have but are posting stuff to warp the topic.

Lets try to explain it to you for millionth time in this thread: Linear progression means that you can do the same effort for gaining each "level" of power. And this has nothing to with exp tickets or anything, many commercial games have "premium" exp features, tibia for instance, and many others. EL itself can have a "gold membership" in the future, and again, it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

no half-succesfull games, WoW has 9million players, Silkroads servers are always full to the max
Yes, we all know that Silkroad and WoW are successful RPG games, thanks Sherlock, and both don't have linear progression.
knowing you, you wont drop out of the discussion, so lets hear the excuse why those games arent valid ^^
I ask you for some game with linear progression of experience and you bring up games who have premium exp features? Are you joking? It has absolutely nothing to do with the topic, its like i asking you oranges and bringing up apples. Edited by Lorck

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i gave examples of games where you can buy lvls, you asked for it. keep your word and atfu

your small mind wont get it so i'll explain, you buy the increased exp to get lvls faster, that would be buying lvls.

WoW is a p2p game meaning you pay to play THE GAME, not for the free lvls, you get a trial code for free every month to recruit a friend with, you lvl up with that friend under 3 times increased exp, which would be getting levels quick for free. and while you do this, at the end you have about 59-60 levels to give to an alt, indirectly buying levels to increase your characters attributes.

 

here even a video to prove that you can get levels linearly in WoW - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mcHe06ASlg

lvl 1-59 in under 3 minutes, how much more linear can it get?

atleast here it takes way longer and harder work

WoW is successfull, giving you free levels, i'd say that leveling there is more overpowered then here, here you spend months/years to get something similiar.

but you asked for a game that does that, there you have one. it works out fine for them

 

exactly what you asked for, if you dont like the answer, dont ask, stop your stupid argueing cause u keep posting garbage

Edited by Infamous

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i gave examples of games where you can buy lvls, you asked for it. keep your word and atfu
I will make here the same challenge i did to you on the ch6: just name ONE at least half-succesful game (excluding EL) where your attributes or stats goes up in a linear way, just name one and i drop out of the discussion.
your small mind wont get it so i'll explain, you buy the increased exp to get lvls faster, that would be buying lvls.
Yes, and this has nothing to do with linear progession. As i said, many games have "premium exp features", and no, i never used the fact you can buy in game gold for $, you are inventing stuff yet again.
WoW is a p2p game, you get a trial code for free every month to recruit a friend with, you lvl up with that friend under 3 times increased exp, which would be getting levels quick for free. and while you do this, at the end you have about 59-60 levels to give to an alt, indirectly buying levels to increase your characters attributes.
Lets try to explain it to you for millionth time in this thread: Linear progression means that you can do the same effort for gaining each "level" of power.
here even a video to prove that you can get levels linearly in WoW - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mcHe06ASlg

lvl 1-59 in under 3 minutes, how much more linear can it get?

Again, either you don't have a clue, or have dyslexia, or low IQ, or more likely are posting stuff just to warp the topic yet again. The "promotion" from Blizzard games makes you gain triple exp YET the levels go up in an exponential way. And yes, you can go to L1->L60 in few minutes in WoW, that means its linear? Read up the definition of linear growing curve, that is, if you can
exactly what you asked for, if you dont like the answer, dont ask, stop your stupid argueing cause u keep posting garbage
If only the answer had anything to do with the question i asked... But it doesn't.

 

EDIT: Just to put the nail of the coffin on the argument "WoW has linear progression":straight from WoW wiki:

The XP required to advance to the next level is found by:

XP = ((8 × CL) + Diff(CL)) × MXP(CL) × RF(CL)
where CL = the current Character Level

Note that the XP is always rounded down to the nearest hundred.

The function MXP(CL) is the basic amount of XP earned for killing a mob of level equal to the character

And the exp to level can be aproximated as:

XP to Level = (65x(exp2) - 165x - 6750) × .82

where 'x' is the level. If you think this is linear, then you should go back to school and get some math classes. If you need some math classes about regression, a good start point is this.

Edited by Lorck

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and no, i never used the fact you can buy in game gold for $,

 

was it even mentioned in the stuff you quoted? or before that? no, inventnig stuff.

 

like i said in game, cant teach an old dog new tricks, you keep on proving that.

many people have said its like talking to a brick wall, and that id have more luck with the wall.

 

u keep going off-topic, posting things that arent related and completely disregard any sense in order to "win" an arguement.

channel 6 has been laughing at you for 2 days cause of your nonsense, there really is something wrong with you

 

hf quoting, relating it to banana's and eggs, and other BS u keep posting :D

 

You have chosen to ignore this user. :)

Edited by Infamous

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Not playing EL anymore but I had to comment on this thread :)

 

I totally agree with everything what conavar said here:

 

Not really aimed just at PP buying but at the whole aspect of the game:

 

How much gc/money a person spends on their character should NEVER have more than a minimal effect on the characters strength in any MMO, the first two you listed "time and effort" are the only ones that should matter in any part of the game not just PK , and lets not fool ourselves most players know the majority of PKer's bought PP's dont come through hard work or effort, but through $ > GC.

 

How good a player is at any part of any game should come by how good their ingame skills are, character development , Time spent leveling, etc etc and never how much gc/$ they throw about on items or PP's

 

+1 on removing PP buying :)

 

P.S. - hc, you need better arguments on this topic, the ones i read aren't convincing enough :D

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and no, i never used the fact you can buy in game gold for $,
was it even mentioned in the stuff you quoted? or before that? no, inventnig stuff.
your small mind wont get it so i'll explain, you buy the increased exp to get lvls faster, that would be buying lvls.
Silkroad

first one you can get exp tickets, silver and gold, one triples exp for 12 hours, the other for 24 hours.

 

u keep going off-topic, posting things that arent related and completely disregard any sense in order to "win" an arguement.
Well, my quote from the WoW wiki was a reply to your "genial" claim that experiences level in WoW is linear. Its not. I proved that. Twice. With source collected directly from the WoW's wiki itself.
channel 6 has been laughing at you for 2 days cause of your nonsense, there really is something wrong with you
I could care less if your friends make jokes about me, and again, to just attack the other guy instead of the argument of the other guy is one simple example of fallacy.

 

BACK TO TOPIC: There are many reasons why pick point buying should be either slowed or completly removed from the game, those reasons include: linear progression at high levels, lack of diversity in char building (resulted from excess of pick points), insanely hard time for newcomers to catch up the high leveled players, way too much long endgame, etc.

I have asked many times for a single good argument to let the pp buying stay the way it is, and i got stuff like "omg lorck, people laugh at you!". That is a good argument, indeed. :D

 

EDIT:OFFTOPIC: Dushan, come back to game. :)

Edited by Lorck

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Not playing EL anymore but I had to comment on this thread :)

 

I totally agree with everything what conavar said here:

 

Not really aimed just at PP buying but at the whole aspect of the game:

 

How much gc/money a person spends on their character should NEVER have more than a minimal effect on the characters strength in any MMO, the first two you listed "time and effort" are the only ones that should matter in any part of the game not just PK , and lets not fool ourselves most players know the majority of PKer's bought PP's dont come through hard work or effort, but through $ > GC.

 

How good a player is at any part of any game should come by how good their ingame skills are, character development , Time spent leveling, etc etc and never how much gc/$ they throw about on items or PP's

 

+1 on removing PP buying :)

 

P.S. - hc, you need better arguments on this topic, the ones i read aren't convincing enough :D

 

Conavar mentioned time and effort are the only ones that should matter, Gc is gained with time and effort, whether its bought with $ or not, time and efford is spended in earning that $ anyway so indirectly you spend time and effort on the Game getting it.

saying time and effort should matter and not how much Gc you have is contradicting, see above.

now EL is designed to have uber items and PP buying feature, which give ones who are richer an advantage (but they work for that so it makes sense)

Gc will always be a deciding factor in any game, rich have more oppurtunity to develop their char. they can buy more then what someone else can. thats normal.

this is just another one of those "i cant have it, no1 can then" arguments, it used to be "u spend $ on shop to get strong" "you buy gc" now its "you buy pp"

whats next? some players have more Gc then others buying more steel bars then others can with which they can level manu faster, would that need to get removed too?

no, the person buying them is highly likely to have spend time/effort to get to making profits enabling him to buy that stuff, nothing unfair about it

 

edit: [PM from JuvenaL: kk, keep with your stagnant pk, i dont care much anyways]

1 i talked to doesnt care, the other just doesnt want to buy pp

its getting obvious that its something stupid as "if i cant have it, then no one can." "i cant be bothered to do it, so the rest shouldnt be able to"

Edited by Infamous

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