Remove PP buying

[Dushan]

Conavar mentioned time and effort are the only ones that should matter, Gc is gained with time and effort, whether its bought with $ or not, time and efford is spended in earning that $ anyway so indirectly you spend time and effort on the Game getting it.

saying time and effort should matter and not how much Gc you have is contradicting, see above.

now EL is designed to have uber items and PP buying feature, which give ones who are richer an advantage (but they work for that so it makes sense)

Here, I bolded this part for you in case you missed it

 

How much gc/money a person spends on their character should NEVER have more than a minimal effect on the characters strength in any MMO,

 

Keyword being minimal, where as in pp buying that's not the case

[Lorck]

edit: [PM from JuvenaL: kk, keep with your stagnant pk, i dont care much anyways]

Notice the "much" part of it.

1 i talked to doesnt care, the other just doesnt want to buy pp

its getting obvious that its something stupid as "if i cant have it, then no one can." "i cant be bothered to do it, so the rest shouldnt be able to"

Do you care to address the things WHY the pp buying should be removed INSTEAD of calling "stupid", etc. Now i should have bought the pps to be against it in the first place? It seems pretty smart.

 

And I don't care really much about pk, that is true, most of my enemies stopped playing, and i don't attack non-enemies, so less motivation for me to pk. But i do enjoy the game, and the other aspects of it, i would not like to see the PK dead because the new people can't really catch up the big guys.

[Infamous]

Conavar mentioned time and effort are the only ones that should matter, Gc is gained with time and effort, whether its bought with $ or not, time and efford is spended in earning that $ anyway so indirectly you spend time and effort on the Game getting it.

saying time and effort should matter and not how much Gc you have is contradicting, see above.

now EL is designed to have uber items and PP buying feature, which give ones who are richer an advantage (but they work for that so it makes sense)

Here, I bolded this part for you in case you missed it

 

How much gc/money a person spends on their character should NEVER have more than a minimal effect on the characters strength in any MMO,

 

Keyword being minimal, where as in pp buying that's not the case

 

same with uber weapons/armors, they will never get removed, instead radu said he was thinking of making them manufacturable

 

come to think of it, you pvped Anthony when he had ~50 bought pps right?

how come you were able to pvp him with no, or minimum amount of bought pp while people say they are so uber strong and ruin pk?

 

edit: lorck i see your name when you post but not your message, i got you ignored...

its kinda sad that you continue to argue with someone who cant even read what you say, are you that lonely?

Edited October 5, 2009 by Infamous

[conavar]

Not playing EL anymore but I had to comment on this thread

 

I totally agree with everything what conavar said here:

 

Not really aimed just at PP buying but at the whole aspect of the game:

 

How much gc/money a person spends on their character should NEVER have more than a minimal effect on the characters strength in any MMO, the first two you listed "time and effort" are the only ones that should matter in any part of the game not just PK , and lets not fool ourselves most players know the majority of PKer's bought PP's dont come through hard work or effort, but through $ > GC.

 

How good a player is at any part of any game should come by how good their ingame skills are, character development , Time spent leveling, etc etc and never how much gc/$ they throw about on items or PP's

 

+1 on removing PP buying

 

P.S. - hc, you need better arguments on this topic, the ones i read aren't convincing enough

 

Conavar mentioned time and effort are the only ones that should matter, Gc is gained with time and effort, whether its bought with $ or not, time and efford is spended in earning that $ anyway so indirectly you spend time and effort on the Game getting it.

saying time and effort should matter and not how much Gc you have is contradicting, see above.

 

Its not contradicting at all.Maybe I didnt make it clear what I meant.

 

In most MMO's the following applies

 

A ) Time and effort spent leveling = Increases a characters levels/skills/attributes

 

B ) Time and effort spent getting Gc = Increase the strength of items owned armour/weapons/ etc etc etc

 

B should never have more than a minimal effect on A (This in other MMO's is normally achieved indirectly by having certain items give stat bonuses ie: Sword with +4 vit ).

 

 

The time and effort of A should never be directly effected by B

 

IMO this a debate both sides will never agree on, some like PP buying some dont (personally Since Im inactive Im not fussed)

 

But a perfect compromise (sp) would be is to cap PP's able to be spent 178 (the max amount its possible to achieve through OA), then if a player chooses to buy PP's or get Neg perks to achieve their 178 quicker then so be it... but those who choose to level will catch them in the end when they reach 178 OA .

 

If you reached 150 OA and with neg Perks/PP buying had reached 178 spent PP's you would still earn a new one PP per OA but be unable to spend them, they could then be saved up to remove any neg perks that player had bought to Quicken their power....

 

The end result would be no matter if a player chose the quick route or the slow they would both reach the same point in the end

Edited October 5, 2009 by conavar

[Lorck]

same with uber weapons/armors, they will never get removed, instead radu said he was thinking of making them manufacturable

That's why he said character strength, not items, etc.

come to think of it, you pvped Anthony when he had ~50 bought pps right?

how come you were able to pvp him with no, or minimum amount of bought pp while people say they are so uber strong and ruin pk?

He can't do much damage since the p/c are capped.

edit: lorck i see your name when you post but not your message, i got you ignored...

its kinda sad that you continue to argue with someone who cant even read what you say, are you that lonely?

That does not prevent me from pointing up your fallacies, and from dispelling your fake arguments.

[Dushan]

come to think of it, you pvped Anthony when he had ~50 bought pps right?

how come you were able to pvp him with no, or minimum amount of bought pp while people say they are so uber strong and ruin pk?

He can't do much damage since the p/c are capped.

 

I had to use degraded tit short because of his 48 vit and have really good astro

[Infamous]

But a perfect compromise (sp) would be is to cap PP's able to be spent 178 (the max amount its possible to achieve through OA), then if a player chooses to buy PP's or get Neg perks to achieve their 178 quicker then so be it... but those who choose to level will catch them in the end when they reach 178 OA .

 

If you reached 150 OA and with neg Perks/PP buying had reached 178 spent PP's you would still earn a new one PP per OA but be unable to spend them, they could then be saved up to remove any neg perks that player had bought to Quicken their power....

 

sounds like a good solution, still most attributes maxed, but the example you gave about being able to remove their neg perks, they could use those PP for positive perks too, which is kinda what they are complaining about, too much pp and positive perks.

and Lorck thinks they are unbeatable, and the way the pps are gained are imbalanced, or whatever he switched his reasonings to now, some people will never be happy

 

no one even reached all max attributes yet and they still complain, jeff removed alot of attributes and hes about the only one who had nearly all maxed

even if someone gets all maxed attributes and positive perks they screw themselves royally, they say kgxjeff got BP+mirror, well great for him at 140s a/d, just means he lost alot of attr, cant pvp anymore and gets less exp on spawns.

 

even if it gets removed they would get something else to complain about, like dragon armors, then the swords need more damage, then bronze needs to do lower dmg, and the story goes on and on till they screw the game with their suggestions.

 

radu did a good job managing this game up to now, if it really was that bad he would have removed PP buying a long time ago (sure it was an accident, but do you really think this is the first time he hears about it?)

 

 

 

come to think of it, you pvped Anthony when he had ~50 bought pps right?

how come you were able to pvp him with no, or minimum amount of bought pp while people say they are so uber strong and ruin pk?

He can't do much damage since the p/c are capped.

 

I had to use degraded tit short because of his 48 vit and have really good astro

 

but in a real fight you would be able to stand a chance against him and have a chance to win right?

Edited October 5, 2009 by Infamous

[conavar]

But a perfect compromise (sp) would be is to cap PP's able to be spent 178 (the max amount its possible to achieve through OA), then if a player chooses to buy PP's or get Neg perks to achieve their 178 quicker then so be it... but those who choose to level will catch them in the end when they reach 178 OA .

 

If you reached 150 OA and with neg Perks/PP buying had reached 178 spent PP's you would still earn a new one PP per OA but be unable to spend them, they could then be saved up to remove any neg perks that player had bought to Quicken their power....

 

sounds like a good solution, still most attributes maxed, but the example you gave about being able to remove their neg perks, they could use those PP for positive perks too, which is kinda what they are complaining about, too much pp and positive perks.

 

 

Wasnt my intention if it came over like that

 

The available to spend PP Pool would be a max 178 this would include any PP's spent on positive perks.

 

Ie: Player A has 158 in stats and 20 in positive perks he would have reached his cap and be unable to spend anymore.

After that point he would still earn PP's but be unable to spend them on stats or pos perks..

If he had taken a neg perk worth 7 PP's earlier in his char development, once he had 7 spare (in the unusable pool) he could remove that perk and still be left with his 178 in stats and perks. His character would be better off for the removal of the neg perk but not nerfed Vs any others

[Ambrosius]

I think some old players may come back or at least appear more often

 

old players who quit used pp buying aswell, Ambro, siarato, toomass, matess for example

other old players wouldnt know about pp buying because they quit before pp buying was introduced, besides was there ever one who quit cause of pp buying?

 

think about the millions people spended to get a few pp, they would quit cause all theh ard work was for nothing, making the small playerbase even smaller. not to mention the pk community that gets smaller and then we get topics again saying pk is dead

 

Yeah, i was a PP buyer aswell. Mostly to keep up with other top players/PP buyers tho.

Looking back now, it was boring as hell...all those hours training/serping to gain gc for that next pickpoint.

 

If there had been no pickpoint buying and a level cap of lets say ~145 then instead of the endless training/money gathering I would have been in KF having fun ^^.....only serping to gain some gc for normal expenses.

 

Heck...maybe i would have still played then But now, as is, if you want to be/stay competitive the game is just a prayer without an end.

 

I still think PP buying to use on nexus (but only on nexus) is a cool idea tho.

[SlimPickins]

If there had been no pickpoint buying and a level cap of lets say ~145 then instead of the endless training/money gathering I would have been in KF having fun ^^.....only serping to gain some gc for normal expenses.

 

Heck...maybe i would have still played then But now, as is, if you want to be/stay competitive the game is just a prayer without an end.

Looks like you should take a look at this thread http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=51184

[Dushan]

but in a real fight you would be able to stand a chance against him and have a chance to win right?

Yea, but only if I had like max good astro and take attack blessing (that's +22 att lvls altogether) and use bronze sword ... We had a ff once, both with bronze swords, he was doing more than twice restores than me, it was close fight, but due to him having over 200 mana, I had to diss

[nathanstenzel]

Ok.....this discussion is going in circles.

 

Using hydro bars to turn into nexus to remove via stone for attributes actually takes Less effort as you increase your carry capacity or business skills and become good enough to do the things needed to get the hydro bars. Never forget though. It takes alot of time. I think roughly 2 hours for 10 s2e, but I may be wrong. So at least 100 hours of hard work.

 

People always tell me it is easy to level a character via a/d training. I started training on male ogre and.....yeah....one day I made 1M xp in 9 hours. That means that in 15 hours, my character could have a level. Now, lets say that you had to get 4M xp to get a level, that would be about 36 hours assuming you had something that gave about the same xp per hour as I got. I figure it takes less effort to get the pickpoints via fighting than via hydro for a long time if you have the right opponent.

 

Btw, when it comes to fighting, I mainly don't care. I wanna make money. I wanna make and sell/trade weapons and armor. I wanna run my guild. The main reason for me to do any a/d training is to harvest armed orcs later on. I like those pretty serpent stones. The enchanted blades use alot of them. The secondary reason is because I have in the past had issues with pkers during hydro runs.

 

Added:

What level is 4M xp anyways? I don't have EL open. lol Ah. Level 114 takes a little over 4M xp.

L178-L177 = 93592266 ...for the closest I could compute for 100 hours of work,

Edited October 6, 2009 by nathanstenzel

[korrode]

People always tell me it is easy to level a character via a/d training. I started training on male ogre and.....yeah....one day I made 1M xp in 9 hours. That means that in 15 hours, my character could have a level. Now, lets say that you had to get 4M xp to get a level, that would be about 36 hours assuming you had something that gave about the same xp per hour as I got.

So you're going to base your argument on your exp gaining experience?

Because i can make 1M xp in a shitload less than 9 hours... and i don't mean 8, or 7, lol.

 

Also, 1M xp in 9 hours on Ogre, even a single spawn, isn't great.... and is horrible if it was a multi-spawn you were on.

 

Additionally, the time you talk about as a requirement to make hydro bars by no means reflects the time it takes a pickpoint buyer to acquire them.

 

Buying pickpoints at post-150 OA is easier than getting OA's (this is demonstrated by the amount of bought pp's some 150's OA people have), plus people can gain resources to buy pickpoints while they level. So yes, eventually buying pp's does become easier than getting OA's, which is the problem. Gaining more pp's once at that sort of OA is MEANT to be extremely time consuming, the game is originally designed that way, and for good reason.

 

Once again nathan you spout off some wild speculation based on your personal experiences in EL, with no knowledge of the game mechanics surrounding the activities of players that are mostly performing the action being discussed.

Maybe with your 7 Tailoring you'd also like to make some speculations about levelling it from 50-70, or perhaps we should just call NASA so you can speculate on how to increase fuel efficiency on their shuttle engines.

[Lorck]

Btw, when it comes to fighting, I mainly don't care. I wanna make money. I wanna make and sell/trade weapons and armor. I wanna run my guild.

Then you should think a bit more about it. For who do you sell/trade/make armor & weapons? Just to posers who won't do anything useful with it? Or you sell to people who fight (at least some times), to people who cares about the combat system?

So the combat system affects your way to make money, and imo you should care more about it. A better combat system, means a more healthy player base who fights, more clients for you, and more potential fighters recruits to your guild.

The secondary reason is because I have in the past had issues with pkers during hydro runs.

There are "good" pkers, you know, people who fight the "evil" ones who attack in the route to hydro (note that i don't think they are really bad, since Entropy made you to pass on pk maps on purpose, so you should cooperate with the fighters in order to walk without issues to hydro). You really like to try to ruin the fun of all who do PvP in EL, just because you got attacked a few times?

[boognish]

Using hydro bars to turn into nexus to remove via stone for attributes actually takes Less effort as you increase your carry capacity or business skills and become good enough to do the things needed to get the hydro bars...

 

I think you missed this part. You are just looking for a reason to flame.

[SlimPickins]

This thread has degenerated into a flamewar. All valid points have already been made. There's nothing left but repeating what's already been said and pointless bickering.