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I don't consider smby with 50-60 magic and full will/reasoning a mage....how could he be with such a relatively low magic level?

It's a piece of cake to pump will/rationality...but getting a high magic lvl...training the skill... is much harder, time consuming and costly.

 

Imo the potency of your magic skills should be much more dependant of your actual magic lvl.

 

When i quit i had 88 magic lvl, full reasoning and some will. I harmed for 80-90.

In comparison: some "newb" with 60 magic and full reasoning/will harms for 150-160...

I always found this a weird concept...

 

My p2p just expired, so it has been about 1.5 years since I started Wizzy

 

Wizzy is not my first charater, and I have been roaming these EL for over 3 years, maybe close to 4 now.

 

Since I started Wizzy, I have invested more time/gc's for my 62 magic level then when I started jumpy charater who made 110 defense in about 1 year from creation. Making gc's is not that easy when you need HoS, Anti, etc just to pump up that emu to a cool 500. As for a max ration with good astro, and w/r/m pots, I still cant harm players for 150.

 

As for someone starting a new char and in a month terrorizing kf? Not possible, unless, serious EL shop investment takes place.

 

And it is not our fault that people maybe too slow, I pked people when I could only harm for 50 points, And I know Dugur/Magpielee have done the same.

To be honest, for some people, all the magic protection in the world wont help some people, Some people just lack the pk skills or the foresight to use items avaible in game to protect them.

 

I remember long ago, people hanging out at merc spawn would often get attacked with Brod's from an invisable pker.

 

another oldtimer used to summon fluffy from invisable/attack. The point is the element of surprise.

 

Conavars point about facebook map is a good one, What do you expect if your sitting unprepared in a map. It would be no different then someone showing up with attack bless/ boost potted and dealing loads of damage with a bronze swrod/bp combo.

 

 

Ok, maybe 150-160 is a bit exagurated.

 

But plox, people read...im not complaining about mage builds or the damage they can do. A mage should beable to do good magic damage. What i'm saying is: magic should be much more magic level dependant. Imo it is geared too much towards rationality and too little towards actual magic level - as in: it needs training to get higher and become a better mage.

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I don't consider smby with 50-60 magic and full will/reasoning a mage....how could he be with such a relatively low magic level?

It's a piece of cake to pump will/rationality...but getting a high magic lvl...training the skill... is much harder, time consuming and costly.

 

Imo the potency of your magic skills should be much more dependant of your actual magic lvl.

 

When i quit i had 88 magic lvl, full reasoning and some will. I harmed for 80-90.

In comparison: some "newb" with 60 magic and full reasoning/will harms for 150-160...

I always found this a weird concept...

 

My p2p just expired, so it has been about 1.5 years since I started Wizzy

 

Wizzy is not my first charater, and I have been roaming these EL for over 3 years, maybe close to 4 now.

 

Since I started Wizzy, I have invested more time/gc's for my 62 magic level then when I started jumpy charater who made 110 defense in about 1 year from creation. Making gc's is not that easy when you need HoS, Anti, etc just to pump up that emu to a cool 500. As for a max ration with good astro, and w/r/m pots, I still cant harm players for 150.

 

As for someone starting a new char and in a month terrorizing kf? Not possible, unless, serious EL shop investment takes place.

 

And it is not our fault that people maybe too slow, I pked people when I could only harm for 50 points, And I know Dugur/Magpielee have done the same.

To be honest, for some people, all the magic protection in the world wont help some people, Some people just lack the pk skills or the foresight to use items avaible in game to protect them.

 

I remember long ago, people hanging out at merc spawn would often get attacked with Brod's from an invisable pker.

 

another oldtimer used to summon fluffy from invisable/attack. The point is the element of surprise.

 

Conavars point about facebook map is a good one, What do you expect if your sitting unprepared in a map. It would be no different then someone showing up with attack bless/ boost potted and dealing loads of damage with a bronze swrod/bp combo.

 

 

Ok, maybe 150-160 is a bit exagurated.

 

But plox, people read...im not complaining about mage builds or the damage they can do. A mage should beable to do good magic damage. What i'm saying is: magic should be much more magic level dependant. Imo it is geared too much towards rationality and too little towards actual magic level - as in: it needs training to get higher and become a better mage.

 

I disagree

 

Of course, I am not smart enough to figure out the formulae for harm damage/rationality/magic level. If magic damage was dependent on level it would mean that most of the top fighters, would then become top mages.

 

What one must remember, for charaters less then 3 years old, is they rarely have the gc's to max out every attribute with bought pp, so with the majority of pp invested in rationality, other aspects of this game get much harder.

 

I would support however the idea of certain armors having more magic protection and to counter mage robes / new staff to increase magic damage at the same rate. I do agree with kroode that naked mages risk very little. And in my experince, naked mages are really not all that succesfull, With low toughness, we are pretty easy to kill in a mele fight.

 

I would like to see the mage robes provide good heat/cold protection, magic resisitance, and some armor (like leather armor) With a cost/break rate consitant with titanium plate set?

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Lately if you have been in kf or indeed any pk map you may have noticed a LOT more mages. Is it too easy for them to get skills that give them ability to kill so quicky and therefore get easy drops? Many are now going invisible and attacking with the opponent haveing very little time to defend themselves. What is your view?

 

 

*edit* Dont mis-understand me here, I think mage skills are awesome and bring a lot to the game :) I just think that some aspects need to be slowed down and that harm is way to powerful when all you have to do is neg perk with little or no skill building. I simply want it open to discussion.

Using a simple steel shield or better gives 4 magic protection. The mages would have to kill quick or die, most likely, unless they were smart enough to get some toughness on their character. If people wish to dispute the newb mages are overpowered, ask me and I will arrange for you to meet TickleMonster. TickleMonster has a low magic level and at least 24 rationality. His stats are not hidden. If someone gives him some DE, he will be able to Attempt to cast harm on someone. That does not mean he will succeed. Magic level of mage vs magic level of opponent has to do with how likely a spell is to succeed, if I am not mistaken.

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or indeed any pk map Of course kf is no drop, but last time I looked TD wasn't. If I were to go to TD of course I would use MI and cast TS.

Dugur I also believe that if you read my post correctly you will see that I was asking questions and asking for your views about levels required etc. not making personal comments. I have heard so much chat regarding this matter but nothing open for discussion in the forum. I admire anyone in any skill that has done the hard work to level.

Do you think there is anyone in any other PK map nowadays than in KF?

As i mentioned in other threads/channel 6, one of the most fun aspects of the game was to train (or kill monsters) in pk maps. This aspect of the game kinda of stopped after the arrival of the low level "mages" who do big harms (except maybe in hulda), without much training at all. You can't really do MI, or restoring at 160 hp because that would be way too expensive.

 

If you die, you lose rosto... if they die, they lose a few essences, because they run around naked anyways.

 

A few suggestions:

(1)Make magic protection more effective against harms, so you could theoretically kill monster in pk maps (and then the spawns on those maps would not go unsed);

AND/OR

(2)Make some "wizard robes" or something using the tailoring skill that increase the harms, like only those who wear the robes can do big harms/mana drains, not all noobs with maxed reas/will that run around naked

AND/OR

(3)reduce the time you can cast spells while engaged in combat (or increase the time you can cast spells outside combat)... because when the guy stalks you fighting, you can cast only each 2 seconds they can cast in 1 second, so if you are engaged in combat and a wiz get you while your MI temporarily run off, you get owned.

 

I fully agree that the guys who go to kf without MI should be pwned. Get real, if you wanna be part of an in game social network, make a channel or something.

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or indeed any pk map Of course kf is no drop, but last time I looked TD wasn't. If I were to go to TD of course I would use MI and cast TS.

Dugur I also believe that if you read my post correctly you will see that I was asking questions and asking for your views about levels required etc. not making personal comments. I have heard so much chat regarding this matter but nothing open for discussion in the forum. I admire anyone in any skill that has done the hard work to level.

Do you think there is anyone in any other PK map nowadays than in KF?

As i mentioned in other threads/channel 6, one of the most fun aspects of the game was to train (or kill monsters) in pk maps. This aspect of the game kinda of stopped after the arrival of the low level "mages" who do big harms (except maybe in hulda), without much training at all. You can't really do MI, or restoring at 160 hp because that would be way too expensive.

 

If you die, you lose rosto... if they die, they lose a few essences, because they run around naked anyways.

 

A few suggestions:

(1)Make magic protection more effective against harms, so you could theoretically kill monster in pk maps (and then the spawns on those maps would not go unsed);

AND/OR

(2)Make some "wizard robes" or something using the tailoring skill that increase the harms, like only those who wear the robes can do big harms/mana drains, not all noobs with maxed reas/will that run around naked

AND/OR

(3)reduce the time you can cast spells while engaged in combat (or increase the time you can cast spells outside combat)... because when the guy stalks you fighting, you can cast only each 2 seconds they can cast in 1 second, so if you are engaged in combat and a wiz get you while your MI temporarily run off, you get owned.

 

I fully agree that the guys who go to kf without MI should be pwned. Get real, if you wanna be part of an in game social network, make a channel or something.

 

Welcome back to Eternal Lands Lorck

 

Now I am not sure how long you have been back, but the game has kinda changed since you used to be able to pvp in KF all day. It has been a long time since I see people pvping on a pk map (other then a guild map) Sure, I am sure it happens, but I dont see it often anymore, For a very long time now.

 

Even before naked ebul mages roamed el, there where always a lot of free spawns in pk maps. Double fluff/ogre pk maps where a bit of an excpetion, some people did use them. Mostly when they coudn't find another spawn.

 

Radu has already made mage robes, and there is a book avaible for them, though they are not manuable yet, So lets be patient.

 

If you have low rationality anyhow, what would be the difference at restoring at 160 hp if trainning in pk map? Most people cant fully restore their hitpoints anyhow.

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Welcome back to Eternal Lands Lorck
Thanks. ;)
Now I am not sure how long you have been back, but the game has kinda changed since you used to be able to pvp in KF all day. It has been a long time since I see people pvping on a pk map (other then a guild map) Sure, I am sure it happens, but I dont see it often anymore, For a very long time now.
Well, some people are chicken, and did not gone to pk maps even when there were no big harms. And i only gone pvp in kf if asking for trouble... now it seems some folks go chat there...
Even before naked ebul mages roamed el, there where always a lot of free spawns in pk maps. Double fluff/ogre pk maps where a bit of an excpetion, some people did use them. Mostly when they coudn't find another spawn.
Ye, again, some people dont gone there, but i think i made 75%+ of my exp in pk maps, and it was one of the most fun parts of the game.
Radu has already made mage robes, and there is a book avaible for them, though they are not manuable yet, So lets be patient.
Cool.
If you have low rationality anyhow, what would be the difference at restoring at 160 hp if trainning in pk map? Most people cant fully restore their hitpoints anyhow.
Well, my magic level is not really good (74 atm), 4 reasoning, 4 will, and i do restores on 90's... Edited by Lorck

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I disagree

 

Of course, I am not smart enough to figure out the formulae for harm damage/rationality/magic level. If magic damage was dependent on level it would mean that most of the top fighters, would then become top mages.

 

Again...i didn't say just level dependant but much more level dependant then it is now.

 

Do a little test yourself:

Add 4 rationality or add 4 magic levels. You will see that the +4 magic levels wont help magic damage much...the +4 rationality will increase your magic damage a lot. Yet the +4 magic lvls are arguably harder to get then the +4 rationality.

Would be nice if there was a better balance between magic level and rationality when it comes to magic damage/spell effect.

Edited by Ambrosius

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Do a little test yourself:

Add 4 rationality or add 4 magic levels. You will see that the +4 magic levels wont help magic damage much...the +4 rationality will increase your magic damage a lot. Yet the +4 magic lvls are arguably harder to get then the +4 rationality.

Would be nice if there was a better balance between magic level and rationality when it comes to magic damage/spell effect.

 

Well said. I couldn't agree more.

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When you build a mage you have to make some huge sacrefices. For example to phy and coord. They can harm strong and heal a lot. But in close combat.. they are very weak. Nothing compared to a good develloped character.

(Ofc I love being a mage with Polar:)

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Next update, the magic protection will offer more protection against the harm spell.

Will this be the spell or the magic resistance that the spell increases?

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The fighters with maxed p/c are overpowered! Let's think... Someone with 80's a/d (or even lower. That was just an example) and maxed p/c can easily kill 140's a/d person who has 4/4 p/c. Let's decrease the effect of p/c and make the a/d more important in fights!

 

I fully agree with dugur.

 

I totally agree with this, I recently reset and its startling how important the attributes are

VS the actual Attack and Defense levels. If attack and defense levels mattered more, then PP buying

would not have such a profound effect.

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The fighters with maxed p/c are overpowered! Let's think... Someone with 80's a/d (or even lower. That was just an example) and maxed p/c can easily kill 140's a/d person who has 4/4 p/c. Let's decrease the effect of p/c and make the a/d more important in fights!

 

I fully agree with dugur.

 

I totally agree with this, I recently reset and its startling how important the attributes are

VS the actual Attack and Defense levels. If attack and defense levels mattered more, then PP buying

would not have such a profound effect.

 

Absouluty correct! Spot on

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Just cap harm to 60 damage. ;) When a player has full R/W, and +50 magic.

 

ok, can we cap thermal swords, bronze, ice arrows and true sight artic chims that cant be smited also?

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The fighters with maxed p/c are overpowered! Let's think... Someone with 80's a/d (or even lower. That was just an example) and maxed p/c can easily kill 140's a/d person who has 4/4 p/c. Let's decrease the effect of p/c and make the a/d more important in fights!

 

I fully agree with dugur.

 

I totally agree with this, I recently reset and its startling how important the attributes are

VS the actual Attack and Defense levels. If attack and defense levels mattered more, then PP buying

would not have such a profound effect.

 

Absouluty correct! Spot on

 

I agree... in fact, i suggested it (for a/d anyways) like a year ago :)

 

Perhaps increasing the value of attack and defense levels within the hit and dodge combat roll calculations is a suggestion more to your liking.

 

Sadly it wasn't more to Radu's liking then, but i wish you guys the best of luck trying to convince him of it now :P;)

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The fighters with maxed p/c are overpowered! Let's think... Someone with 80's a/d (or even lower. That was just an example) and maxed p/c can easily kill 140's a/d person who has 4/4 p/c. Let's decrease the effect of p/c and make the a/d more important in fights!

 

I fully agree with dugur.

 

I totally agree with this, I recently reset and its startling how important the attributes are

VS the actual Attack and Defense levels. If attack and defense levels mattered more, then PP buying

would not have such a profound effect.

 

Absouluty correct! Spot on

 

I agree... in fact, i suggested it (for a/d anyways) like a year ago :P

 

Perhaps increasing the value of attack and defense levels within the hit and dodge combat roll calculations is a suggestion more to your liking.

 

Sadly it wasn't more to Radu's liking then, but i wish you guys the best of luck trying to convince him of it now :P:)

 

{Disclaimer: this isn't another PP buying is evil post, its to why someone would spend 1 Million Gc per point}

Well we have hijack'd this one now, but anyway maybe a new thread ;)

Lately we have had some positive discussion about changes, maybe this is the time.

 

Well every other skill is dependent on the actual level of the skill for successful mixing, fails, etc

I found (been a long while since my last reset) I cannot hit anything my level or <20 defense levels lower than me.

 

Attack and Defense should be the primary number in calculating a successful hit or dodge and not a collection of

attributes that can be purchased. IMHO by dexterity and reaction (Might for damage makes sense) pick points overpowering

the attack and defense skills, its equal to a NPC that sells AD levels.

 

We wouldn't want an NPC selling attack and defense levels, so why do we have an indirect method for the same thing?

Alter the effect dex\reaction has on chance to dodge or hit, and you successfully solve all the damage Pick Point buying has

caused without the headache of removing it.

When nexus removals came into being, I assumed using the nexus NPC & using a removal stone was a bug\exploit.

Was this the original intention or is this a pandora box kinda thing?

...OK hijack over, we really need to be another thread. :P

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Likewise back to the original question...

 

Yes they are.

Simply ask yourself whom do you fear most in a PK area - a fighter, a summoner or a mage? Answer 10 times out of 10 is mage.

(and yes summoners are way too powerful also)

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Anyone that works alot on their character should be "overpowered" in the eyes of someone who does not work on their character. How's that for a reply?

 

As I said, if anyone wants to see if a newb mage can kill a fighter too easily or not, contact me ingame. I have an extreme mage build character called ticklemonster and I would be willing to help settle this argument. Just supply him with some essies so he can try to harm you with them.

 

PS: Contact my Main character. I hardly use ticklemonster.

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AGree with Wizzy

Also .. if u feal like beeing owned over and over again ask ppl in ur guild to become mages/rangers too to support you ?

Also now EL become a real RPG game... Fighters+mages+archers and now who got best skilled will win ?

And if you dont like Underground just go do manu levels or tailoring...

Kthxbhai

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Also .. if u feal like beeing owned over and over again ask ppl in ur guild to become mages/rangers too to support you ?

Also now EL become a real RPG game... Fighters+mages+archers and now who got best skilled will win ?

And if you dont like Underground just go do manu levels or tailoring...

Yes yes yes !

 

My favourite take on this would be a situation similar to the good old Paper-Rock-Scissors game - e.g. fighter beats archer, archer beats mage, mage beats fighter.

 

everyone knows that bronze sword/harm formula needs a change, it's just figuring out whats the appropriate measure to take with the changes.

 

Hmmm... doesn't everyone know that weasel words are a common means to impose your own opinion on the unwary reader ? ;-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word

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Mage rules, everyone can do mage so why even talk about 'mages' when anyone can 'abuse' invisibility... If you are one of those with a shitty build and cant do mage, then that has been your own choice.

 

Developers are well aware of the players wishes on this subject :whistle:

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Not many mages can farm dragons

Not many mages can harvest huge amounts of Iron ore /gypsum etc

 

You do understand that mages are good at certain things, and piss poor at others right?

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I didn't say purely...i suggested more dependant on magic lvl...

So for high damage you not only need high will/reasoning but also high magic lvl.

 

I think this is best implemented by a level based damage cap. Note that sacrificing carry for rationality will severely slow down your leveling in the end. Being able to do only 40-60 MD casts per run, not being able to harvest fast to pay for essies, etc. If the damage (and restore ammount) is level capped, then it requires far more work to grow such a mage and is probably more something for a second build of a character, rather then a fast leveled alt. Of course then there should be an 'epic' level, where the cap is lifted. Somewhere 80's or 90's I reckon.

On the other hand, if the game had resists (caster vs defender magic level determines chance that spell can be resisted and do no damage) this would be a totally different ballgame.

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Not many mages can farm dragons

Not many mages can harvest huge amounts of Iron ore /gypsum etc

 

You do understand that mages are good at certain things, and piss poor at others right?

 

I have no doubt that mages SHOULD be able to kill an opponent, so should rangers for that matter. Its at what levels and using what skills a mage can achieve this.

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