Item restrictions

[Soul]

I don't like item restrictions (well it is kinda like my barbarian perk idea, can do massive damage

but massive -defense and cannot wear plate armors)

 

...but I do think (as many many people do)

there should be item level requirements. Such as "Kill a dragon to wear dragon armor"

Must have 60 defense to wear titanium plate, 45 defense to wear steel plate, etc.

 

So that means noone besides the high a/d lvls will be able to wear a dragon armor, dragon armor gives low lvls a nice advantage in pk, so giving it a lvl requirement it would pretty much kill pk, since tit is getting pretty useless in pk especially when ur pretty low on a/d..

 

The idea is to stop a <40ad, or <60ad person from using dragon armors to totally shut down the DPa arenas. From observation there

is a IDA person at <40AD DP arena, and not a single 'real' noob would ever kill "mr unkillable". Just change the requirement to 80 Defense

and problem solved. No beginner should be sportin' IDA & therm.

 

 

I think having a cap on what u can max wear is pretty interesting, only when it's invasion time this restrictions are removed, just like all mobs have drops only on ndd they drop nothing..

 

Let it be emu based, so when u start to wear it, u will get back the emu of the armor, but it has a certain amount of points and this has (just like emu) a cap, u can wear maximum of 50 points, so u have to think on what to wear, a full dragon is possible, but u can only wear a tit long with it..

But u can wear drag plate, tit cuisse and steel greave and a special weapon..

 

This will give an extra dimension on going into PK, since it will become unable to go into pk, with id set, tit thermal..

If ya wanna wear tit thermal u will have to drop a piece of ur armor..

• So if its EMU based, only people with MAX P\C will get an advantage too? Or is this another system like emu?
  
• So does everyone get the same amount of points? If not how does this solve anything?
  
• Full dragon and a tit long = a bunch of people that cannot hurt each other.
  
• This would only make El look like patch work armor, since no one could wear anything 'full' as it was intended to be.
  

 

* No it's emu based, meaning, it is capped on what u can max wear (like with emu, it's maxed on what u can bring with u, u can't bring 500 he's when just 480 emu)

* yea, same amount of points

* i know, but if ya replace red drag greave with steel greave (gives back let's say 3 points) so instead of tit long u can bring halberd (just an example, not real points thought of atm)

* indeed, but it does give a twitch to pk, as to be, think what to wear and not just hack and slash with the best u got.

 

Never said it was waterproof, it might have looked better if i worked it out better...

I just love this idea, players wouldnt be able to go in pk w/ all their over powered stuff, and would use them more wisely, combinating the items according to their game style.

[nathanstenzel]

Global restrictions on what you can and can not use is a bad idea. Very bad.

 

If you want to be able to fight someone without them using a weapon, why not ask Radu to implement a "no weapons allowed" arena? This would be a feature and an opportunity for a person to choose to have such restrictions instead of forcing it down the throat of many people that would only complain about it. You could even make it amusing and have it in a bar. If you die, you could be thrown out of the bar and still have all your armor that you did not break because it could be a no drop zone. Bar Fight!

 

Also, if people have not noticed, there is already a higher break rate for things on newbs. It is called getting hit alot more often. If they get hit more often, their armor has a chance to break each time, so their overall chance of breaking it is higher for any given minute that they fight something above their level.

[Soul]

It isnt about wanting bare-handed fights, but lets face it, do we like when someone goes in kf with md cuisses/ubber greaves/ida armor combined with a osomn/cotm/thermal? The suggestion masterzen made was very good, making strategy part of pk and not only 'who has more orange stuff wins'.

Although orange-stuff is nice, weaker/poor players could stand a chance againts them, because they wouldnt have to face off 4-5 orange-items all at once ^^

[Vanyel]

It's unreasonable to let everybody use high-end stuff the very first day in the game. Adding some level-based requirements to most of the game items would not only make more sense (just a bit), but also add some challenge and more aims to level for.

 

I'm supporting any suggestion and changes going in this direction with my whole heart.

[nathanstenzel]

It isnt about wanting bare-handed fights, but lets face it, do we like when someone goes in kf with md cuisses/ubber greaves/ida armor combined with a osomn/cotm/thermal? The suggestion masterzen made was very good, making strategy part of pk and not only 'who has more orange stuff wins'.

Although orange-stuff is nice, weaker/poor players could stand a chance againts them, because they wouldnt have to face off 4-5 orange-items all at once ^^

If they have earned that stuff, they should get to wear it. KF is no drop anyways. If they stole it from a db, let everyone know they are thieves. If they won it in PK, I am sure the PKers would tell you it is their prize and can do with it what they will.

 

Nobody likes losing, but that does not justify taking away the right of people to use such items. It does not justify ruining the value of the items by restricting their use either.

 

Besides a no weapon zone, you could have a no special ability zone....where the special abilities of items do not work. People should have a Choice as to if they want to go to that area. There should be no Forcing restrictions on gear Globally.

[sora_barzahd]

The fact is that they *shouldn't* be able to earn enough gold coins to be able to purchase any high end items. Gold coins are too accessable as it is. If money is limited, prices will have to drop in order for players to sell anything.

 

If a new player happens to pick up a death bag with high end items inside, good for them. They can put it in their storage and use it after they get some levels.

[Garnoo]

The fact is that they *shouldn't* be able to earn enough gold coins to be able to purchase any high end items. Gold coins are too accessable as it is.

You've got to be kidding me...We're talking about fighters here not mixers.

[Kaddy]

do we like when someone goes in kf with md cuisses/ubber greaves/ida armor combined with a osomn/cotm/thermal?

 

Actually they are the only items that gives people chance to beat someone with 130/140 a/d with 120's since there is no way to catch them in experience. Think about it again.

 

-Kaddy

 

 

PS. If a 140's a/d'er were un-killable by 2-3 120's with teamwork, would you like that? Now, go try to kill kgx with 3 120 a/d'er without any special stuff please. I thought teamwork was more important....

 

EDIT# Typo.

Edited September 23, 2009 by Kaddy

[korrode]

Besides a no weapon zone, you could have a no special ability zone....where the special abilities of items do not work. People should have a Choice as to if they want to go to that area. There should be no Forcing restrictions on gear Globally.

Excellent idea.

Make orange spam versions of gear need Human:7

...and then Human Nexus 6 max ND-PK map ftw!

Edited September 24, 2009 by Korrode

[nathanstenzel]

Besides a no weapon zone, you could have a no special ability zone....where the special abilities of items do not work. People should have a Choice as to if they want to go to that area. There should be no Forcing restrictions on gear Globally.

Excellent idea.

Make orange spam versions of gear need Human:7

...and then Human Nexus 6 max ND-PK map ftw!

Wouldn't work for what you want. It would only force a person to use one more pickpoint and then only if they don't already have that much human nexus......like for wearing an artificer cape.

 

I was talking about having pk maps that would have switches in them to allow/deny certain things like Orange Spam effects or using a weapon.

[revi]

I can understand those restrictions for PK, but what about invasions? they are difficult enough as is for ppl at lower a/d's (and I'm not talking 50's here either...), why restrict armours/weapons there?

[asgnny]

I can understand those restrictions for PK, but what about invasions? they are difficult enough as is for ppl at lower a/d's (and I'm not talking 50's here either...), why restrict armours/weapons there?

 

If item restrictions went into effect, the playing field would be leveled a bit as far as players under X a/d having approximately similar gear. As it stands, a player at 49 a/d in Whitestone (during an invasion in which WS is limited to players <50 a/d) with a thermal serp and Ice Dragon armor can likely take out an entire invasion's worth of monsters with relative ease. If it were known that all players below that same 50 a/d cap had only iron plate or aug leather from which to choose, the invasions could be spawned more fairly for more players in a given a/d range.

 

The numbers I suggested for dragon armors (though obviously not set in stone) are such that for a global invasion someone with a/d high enough to withstand a yeti or higher (without mirroring it to death) can very likely equip red dragon armor (or better). Against strong invasion monsters such as yeti, red dragon armor is equivalent to black or ice. This means that a player who can take on a yeti in melee is no worse off by the restrictions.

 

If a mixer wants to sit in storage or walk around in shiny gear, Piper's suggestion is still a viable option. I see level requirements as (positive) motivation to achieve a given level, much moreso than a (negative) restriction. Instead of automatically jumping from Tutorial NPC leather, right to dragon made from drops of the toughest naturally occuring creatures in the game, it would feel more like a personal quest of sorts, to be able to equip the next piece of armor, or weapon.

 

The level minimums for the magic skill encourage players to learn various spells along the way, interact with other players (looking for targets for remote heal), and to seek advice from more experienced players on what to work on next. This all happens in the journey to 21 magic, after which a player can cast restoration. Another similar goal is set to reach 40 magic for mana drain, all along the way for no-fail restoration at 49 magic. The level minimums for magic encourage players to keep pushing forward, with goals in little steps along the way.

 

A common question among new players is "Okay, I did the Tutorial NPC quest. Now what?" If it is seen that e.g. a player needs 8 attack to equip an iron broad sword, the player would be encouraged to kill some small creatures, and have a sense of goals and rewards, rather than meaningless grinding. If the same player sees that e.g. def 10 is needed to equip an enhanced wood shield, maybe s/he would train a bit more...

[bkc56]

Very well stated Asgnny!!

[robotbob]

Very well stated Asgnny!!

 

I totally agree. Its about goals, and not about creating a social status gap between

various AD levels, or 'restricting' players. Now if we can only translate this to real life,

you can't have a fast motorcycle until you learn to ride it

[The_Piper]

Now if we can only translate this to real life,

you can't have a fast motorcycle until you learn to ride it

 

Well, you can ride it in real life, but,as i suggested, you get a malus when driving it without having the required level in driving skill (whatever that may mean in real life)

 

@asgnny:

I totally agree, adding more goals to the game, like to reach the level for using a broad sword, is great

 

Piper

[nathanstenzel]

Sounds to me like Asgnny wants to either replace human nexus with attack or defense or add on another requirement to go along with it.

 

What if a person has been using his gear happily for months and then the a/d requirement is set too high and suddenly he can't use it without it breaking in two? Don't ya think that dude would be rather pissed?

 

I think that it will make it harder to explain to all of the newbs if we have to tell them they only have one of the requirements to really use a weapon. Even if all the documentation was updated, they would still have trouble with it.

 

This thread is about fighters not liking their amount of safety and chance to win on a pk map. I think it should have been deleted as soon as that was clear.

 

While a friend of mine suggested that such restrictions would increase the demand for lower class weapons like ti long and ti short, I am still against this.

 

hmmmm....most changes in the game are rather minor. This one seems to question Radu's basic game design for weapons and armor. It sounds like "human nexus is stupid. let's replace it". Has he posted on this thread yet?

[Aislinn]

Very well stated Asgnny!!

 

I totally agree. Its about goals, and not about creating a social status gap between

various AD levels, or 'restricting' players. Now if we can only translate this to real life,

you can't have a fast motorcycle until you learn to ride it

Absolutely agreed. I liked it way back in the dark ages when we had it for the few things we did, and I have always supported this. Everyone needs goals, something to strive for. There really is nothing for higher levels, nor is it motivating for either newbies or experienced players to have everything the first week you can play. No wonder so many people are bored.

[Lorck]

I think that it will make it harder to explain to all of the newbs if we have to tell them they only have one of the requirements to really use a weapon. Even if all the documentation was updated, they would still have trouble with it.

People had trouble adapting to cooldown, to the harvest mini events, etc. And all those changes in the end improved the game (but i still don't like the mini events).

This thread is about fighters not liking their amount of safety and chance to win on a pk map. I think it should have been deleted as soon as that was clear.

Interesting, now people like Aislinn are ebul fighter pkers? Btw, one of the few "ebul fighter pker" who posted in this thread was me, and it was against the idea. But after reading all the stuff on this thread i have changed my mind.

 

And i think your logic is totally flawed, to be honest. I think 99% of the "evil fighter pkers" would want newbies wearing expensive stuff so that the newbs could drop their shiny IDA set...

While a friend of mine suggested that such restrictions would increase the demand for lower class weapons like ti long and ti short, I am still against this.

Thats what irks me the most in the EL community. People would not want a change, even for their own benefit, if they think that someone they hate would like that change.

hmmmm....most changes in the game are rather minor. This one seems to question Radu's basic game design for weapons and armor. It sounds like "human nexus is stupid. let's replace it". Has he posted on this thread yet?

There were many earth shattering changes, like cooldown, automated harvesting, automated mixing, just to name a few. Edited September 25, 2009 by Lorck

[Aislinn]

This thread is about fighters not liking their amount of safety and chance to win on a pk map. I think it should have been deleted as soon as that was clear.

Interesting, now people like Aislinn are ebul fighter pkers?

Ph34r me

[Vanyel]

This thread is about fighters not liking their amount of safety and chance to win on a pk map. I think it should have been deleted as soon as that was clear.

Interesting, now people like Aislinn are ebul fighter pkers?

Ph34r me

 

I heard she PKed Ghrae once.

[bkc56]

Sounds to me like Asgnny wants to either replace human nexus with attack or defense or add on another requirement to go along with it.

...

I think that it will make it harder to explain to all of the newbs if we have to tell them they only have one of the requirements to really use a weapon.

You mean like many of the other skills where you need to have a nexus (like artificial and magic for crafting) and the skill level in order to mix (for example) a CoL? I don't think it will be any harder to understand that armor/weapons are linked to both a nexus (human) and and the skill level (att and/or def) in order to use them. Seems very consistent to me.

[Learner]

Since EL has always been designed to be open and flexible, putting in required levels to be able to wear an item doesn't seen right.

 

What if a recommended level was added, and that affected the break rate of the item? So, you can still look pretty, but how much of a risk ia a low level player take in breaking expensive items?

[bkc56]

What if a recommended level was added, and that affected the break rate of the item? So, you can still look pretty, but how much of a risk ia a low level player take in breaking expensive items?

 

You should look at pipers post on the first page of this thread where he suggests exactly that:

 

 

In other games, mostly pen&paper ones, you must learn to use stuff, or you will get a malus or you break that stuff very easy.

...

This way ppl can still wear their stuff to look nice, but should think twice to use it in combat.

[korrode]

Besides a no weapon zone, you could have a no special ability zone....where the special abilities of items do not work. People should have a Choice as to if they want to go to that area. There should be no Forcing restrictions on gear Globally.

Excellent idea.

Make orange spam versions of gear need Human:7

...and then Human Nexus 6 max ND-PK map ftw!

Wouldn't work for what you want.

Why not?

 

 

@Asgnny

I can't deny your post is well considered/conceived.

[nathanstenzel]

Besides a no weapon zone, you could have a no special ability zone....where the special abilities of items do not work. People should have a Choice as to if they want to go to that area. There should be no Forcing restrictions on gear Globally.

Excellent idea.

Make orange spam versions of gear need Human:7

...and then Human Nexus 6 max ND-PK map ftw!

Wouldn't work for what you want.

Why not?

<CLIP>

hmmm....If you wish to get rid of orange spam, I guess not allowing more than human nexus 6 items with orange spam being 7 would work For That Particular Map. The complaints about orange spam in KF would not stop unless it was altered to be like this and it was made no drop for a reason.....I believe it was to increase pk. I guess this is a restatement of what you said in post #17.

 

It would not work for what Soul wants, which seems to be KF specific and seems to relate to dragon armor wearing opponents being too hard for him.