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Is taking death bags considered "dispute'ish"?

Taking deathbags good/bad?  

228 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think that taking deathbags IN NON PK maps is against community rules?

    • Yes it is against our community rules
      97
    • No because if you die without a rosto that is the risk
      111
    • I'm not sure what I think on this issue
      10
    • What's a deathbag?
      10


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Yes I think it is disputish so we can all read about it :ph34r:

 

If it is a NooB db then I think it is different then a Upper lvl player db. But still losing 500K worth of stuff is a heavy price to pay for forgetting a rost. It is nice to return it.

Edited by Inglor

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Not voted. Really wanted a "yes, this is bad form and goes against almost all guilds' accepted behaviors, but no there isn't an official EL rule against it, so do what you want and live with the consequences."

 

Personally, as many have mentioned above, I'm a db bag finder and announcer.

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I voted yes

 

Yes,do carry rostos if you don't want to lose your stuff,and take it if you don't mind having enemies...

I,personally give deathbags back...evne though I haven't found any realy expensive yet...

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I haven't voted, but when someone returns my death bag, it makes me happy. If someone takes my death bag, I make a note of the name for future reference.

 

I have often thought about taking dbs myself and my current thinking is that as long as it has enough value in it I will steal it. Currently the value must be 2k+ hydrogenium bars, I realise that my EMU is insufficient to carry this load in one go so I would need the owner to agree to help me mule it back to storage.

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Not voted. Really wanted a "yes, this is bad form and goes against almost all guilds' accepted behaviors, but no there isn't an official EL rule against it, so do what you want and live with the consequences."

 

Personally, as many have mentioned above, I'm a db bag finder and announcer.

 

Then your answer is "yes it's against community rules". We're talking community rules, ie ethical behaviour, where you get declared outlaw if you break them. Not official rules which can get you banned from the game if you break them. That is not to say you agree with the rule, just you accept that it is the current rule!

 

Therefore, if most guilds have the rule "you should return DB's if possible", then obviously it is already a community rule and this poll is pointless. Want to vote on whether the ocean is wet now? Or are we voting to change the rule, because I must have missed that option.

 

Everyone who voted "no" is really just saying "I don't want it to be the rule because they were stupid for not carrying a rosto and I'm an a$$hole" but they must know it is the rule. And taking a newbies DB is pointless. It's worth nothing to you (most of you) but it may be everything the newbie owns. Leave it on the ground ffs, then it's their fault if it poofs but at least they have a chance to get it back. Or do you think newbies should carry rostos to protect their leather armour?

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I didn't read the whole topic but I think

 

it's ok to get an enemy's deathbag

 

WRONG to get a green tag/allie bag :laugh:

 

 

 

 

(i love this rule when i am in *CO* because 99% of the guilds are red :icon13: )

 

 

~TK.

Edited by Michic0_oL

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I voted "Yes it is against our community rules," but I don't agree with "community rules," I just think that it's a mean thing to do.

 

 

Edit: By that I mean that if anything should be considered dispute worthy, or if there are to be community rules, then this should definitely be a part of them. However, I disagree with many other aspects of "community rules," including the idea of them. Democratic justice just leads to mob mentality, and the lynching of innocence.

Edited by Ryuu

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Edit: By that I mean that if anything should be considered dispute worthy, or if there are to be community rules, then this should definitely be a part of them. However, I disagree with many other aspects of "community rules," including the idea of them. Democratic justice just leads to mob mentality, and the lynching of innocence.

 

My hero :rolleyes:

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Probably already stated, but my personal opinion:

 

If you die, and you lose your "death bag" or "db", those items are, per game rules and mechanics, lost to you. If you ahppen to get back to that db in enough time, and someone else hasn't gotten to it and looted it first, you're entitled to every bit of it you want. However, someone does get to it, tough luck unless they're nice enough to return it... and you shouldn't cry about it. That's the GAME rules.

 

THEN, there are what the players have accepted as the rules they want to play by, that have no real validity to them - thus, the COMMUNITY rules. These rules hold such things as "db jumping" as wrong - thus, causing a dispute. Obviously, the "community" rules hold that, if you die in combat, unless another player bested you, that you should be able to run back and get your stuff back... the dispute arising if you don't.

 

So, we have the difference between GAME and COMMUNITY, official and unofficial. If the poll were asking if I thought that taking "death bags" were abuse-worthy, I'd say not in the slightest - it's got nothing to do with game rules. But the poll asks if the action is worthy of the "disputes" forum. Since it's against this long-accepted-by-many rule, I'd say that's exactly where such threads belong. At the same time, if instead of trying to burn down the whole forum with useless flames, people would use it ONLY to post their disputes and attempt resolutions, then that forum just might serve it's purpose.

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I voted no because it is part of the game I feel. However if I find a DB I would personally try to find the owner because I think it's the right thing to do. I have had my DB returned on a number of occasions and I really appreciate it - but sometimes I do not get my DB back - EL still goes on :)

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When I was playing EL more than now, in our guild we used to do like this; generally you are encouraged to return the bag, but it's fine to keep if you have something against the person who died. I returned some DBs to PK enemies if they were just honourable enemies though.

 

In any case, the poll options could be somewhat more precise. I selected "No" because it's closest to my opinion

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seriously guys why debate about this its never going to be an official rule

Edited by sirdan

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seriously guys why debate about this its never going to be an official rule

 

Did you even read the topic?

 

Is taking death bags considered "dispute'ish"?, A Poll

 

This has nothing to do with official rules. All about community rule here.

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Is taking death bags considered "dispute'ish"?, A Poll

 

This has nothing to do with official rules. All about community rule here.

 

It's more about spamming forums and channels.

 

Just accept that you risk to lose stuff, when you die and be more careful and thats it. :P

 

Piper

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Taking a rosto when go training or not, should not even be an issue if everyone would just be honest enough to just give the bag back when u arrive back after visiting underworld.

The stuff in that bag is the property of the one that worked for it to buy all that stuff.

 

I have never taken a rosto with me while training and not planning on ever doing so, i just rely on the honesty of the other EL players, or sometimes ask my fellow guildies to get it for me.

 

Then again i voted "no", just because i just don't care when people jump on my bag, when i see someone doing it i will report this to their GM and continue training.

If i can't train cause everything in my bag was the only training gear i have, then i will go back to alchemy and minding my own business.

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Finally this "deathbags are sacred" taboo has died! :P

 

 

Just wonder why would this or the other, quoted, topic mean anything? Isn't it up to one's own 'feeling' whether it is good or bad?

 

<edit>

I wish this topic got staked like a good vampire and never leaves its coffing again.

Edited by Natsume

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Just wonder why would this or the other, quoted, topic mean anything? Isn't it up to one's own 'feeling' whether it is good or bad?

Yup, it is, which is why in that other topic I said there's not 1 'community', it depends who you ask. That is why I'm glad with the option of 'bagjumpers'/stealers/takers/whatever being reported, so it is everyone's own choice what to do with that info.

 

Up to the individual if they want to think 'nothing wrong with it, part of the game' or if, for example, they want to repay the favour, not sell to that person anymore etc etc.

 

Leave the choice, don't force opinions on others, and if people want to take items they 'find' in a bag, I hope they're big enough to just admit it. Not try to stop others from reporting that ;)

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Just wonder why would this or the other, quoted, topic mean anything? Isn't it up to one's own 'feeling' whether it is good or bad?

Yup, it is, which is why in that other topic I said there's not 1 'community', it depends who you ask. That is why I'm glad with the option of 'bagjumpers'/stealers/takers/whatever being reported, so it is everyone's own choice what to do with that info.

 

Up to the individual if they want to think 'nothing wrong with it, part of the game' or if, for example, they want to repay the favour, not sell to that person anymore etc etc.

 

Leave the choice, don't force opinions on others, and if people want to take items they 'find' in a bag, I hope they're big enough to just admit it. Not try to stop others from reporting that ;)

 

There's the other side to it, too. Losing a bag is in 99% one's own fault. Reporting it is like blaming others for one's own foolishness.

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There's the other side to it, too. Losing a bag is in 99% one's own fault. Reporting it is like blaming others for one's own foolishness.

 

[horse dies]

[beats]

 

The same way, say, getting robbed due to leaving your second-story bedroom window unlocked is blaming others for your own foolishness? I don't see how that works.

 

[ceases beating]

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There's the other side to it, too. Losing a bag is in 99% one's own fault. Reporting it is like blaming others for one's own foolishness.

 

[horse dies]

[beats]

 

The same way, say, getting robbed due to leaving your second-story bedroom window unlocked is blaming others for your own foolishness? I don't see how that works.

 

[ceases beating]

 

Getting robbed in this situation is the effect of one's own foolishness. If one does not want to get robbed one should not create opportunities.

 

Whining about it, though, is trying to avoid taking at least part of the blame on oneself.

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The Consequences of Bagjumping

 

A player is, of course, completely free to pursue a life of such stealing. However, there are consequences to such actions, and the Disputes forum helps ensure those consequences are dealt out by those who feel there should be consequences.

 

1) Potential PVP partners are lost because you're not trustable.

2) Users and even entire guilds will refuse to trade with you.

3) Bots shut off trade with you.

4) I'm sure the pkers have their own special treatment of such people as well, though since I'm not one I wouldn't know.

5) Would you go in an instance with a known bagjumper? Trust is very important during those. Much harder to get an instance team willing to go in with you.

6) In a guild? Every one of your guildmates will pay for your actions as well. You are a representative of your guild. If the guild doesn't kick you out for your behavior, it means they accept it. As such, they will bear the responsibility and be refused trade and so on as well.

 

Pretty much "sucks to be you" as you made your own gameplay that much more difficult over a few gc. Enjoy not being trusted by anyone, and noone willing to do anything with you. Oh, there's a few that do? They deserve the knife in the back you'll give them eventually.

 

I'll not deny you have the right to request those consequences by being a thief.

 

 

Meanwhile, I'll continue returning deathbags (even up to items like NMTs that I could easily have taken with noone knowing), making friends this way or at the least "friendly contacts", and have my gameplay that much easier. With the exception of the known bagjumpers, there's not a single person in the game who has reason to distrust me. Not even the people who might hate my guts or whatever for personal reasons can say I can't be trusted.

 

Which just makes things a lot simpler.

 

 

It's your choice what you do, it's within the game rules, and maybe you like being hated, barred from trade, and even BRoDed on sight. That's your choice as well if you want to play that way.

 

I won't deny you the right to ruin your gameplay. Don't deny us the right to ruin it for you. ;)

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Getting robbed in this situation is the effect of one's own foolishness. If one does not want to get robbed one should not create opportunities.

 

Whining about it, though, is trying to avoid taking at least part of the blame on oneself.

 

You and others continually posting in multiple dispute topics and this thread reminding everyone of your opinion about deathbags is much more akin to whining than the most recent dispute post.

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I consider it a nice polite thing to do to return them. Kind of above and beyond the expectations of what would normally happen. Still voted no because yeah, you die its your fault.

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