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wimpie

A few thoughts on the future development of the game

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For the last weeks, we have seen some lively discussions on the forum considering possible alterations to the game with a rather large impact (mini-events, depletable resources). Every time we see posts as 'I leave the game' and 'OMG it's ruined again'. In order to counter these reactions and to help in one of Ent's major goals, removing gold from the game, I'd like to offer some thoughts on the way future alterations could be organised.

Let's think of the community as a democratic monarchy (or theocracy, depending on how you interpret Ent's avatar :P ). Whenever a major change to the game is likely to be introduced, we could follow the next plan (obviously, in all stages our monarch/god can intervene):

1. Ent decides if the alteration needs a separate topic on the forum.

2. If so, a poll is added with the possibility for all to offer constructive criticism. The topic should have a message encouraging both newbies and veterans to post their opinions: here I believe the responsability of the players kicks in. Ideally, the poll results reflect the thoughts of various types of players (fighters, mixers, all-rounders, newbies, veterans)...again, this all depends on the players' input. A lack of interest will come up with a result you may not like, but hey, you had your chance.

3a. The majority of the community doesn't like the idea: this should be a signal to the developers that maybe other measures should be taken to fix a problem the alteration was aiming at.

3b. The majority of the community does like the idea: the alteration can be implemented, as soon as the players show they really want the new feature. Therefore, a donation can be made (because this is based on a poll, I don't think it's possible for an Überrich player to buy features on his own). A few examples (it goes without saying the amounts are mere possibilities):

-new harvestable: 50k (no biggie)

-new item: 250k, or different amounts according to the nature of the item (maybe more for items all can benefit from, and less for items with a restrictive use)

-new monster: 500k, or different amounts according to the stats (trainable or not, drop-dependable, respawn time, amount of spawns etc.)

-new NPC to buy items from: 100k (less money because of the ability to remove gold)

-new NPC to sell items to: 1kk (more money because it will bring gc in the game)

-...

 

It's possible there are some flaws in the scheme, so please add your comments.

Thanks for reading this.

Wim80

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Well, firstly as Ent said many times, this is not a democracy.

 

Secondly, even IF somethig similar would be in place, your price list is way too low. There is a number of players that could afford easily to pay for, let's say, several new monsters by themselves.

 

Besides, quite a little benefit for the game developers. However, if "a currency" used were rostos from a shop ... who knows. Want a new monster/feature etc. - donate 1k rostos to a special npc.

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I have a better idea; I'll give a list of ~20 names and from now on only those people will discuss and vote on new game changes.

 

Most people around here don't even have the foresight to see what's best for themselves let alone the game as a whole.

 

(EDIT: and by "best for the game as a whole" i mean inducing the most fun (i.e. people smiling, having 'yay' feelings... and i do mean long term, not just when change is made) and highest retention rate of new players)

Edited by Korrode

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so you think that 20 ppl can make a decision for rest 1k ppl ? well maybe, but then how will you choose them ? mods? maybe... then it seems it should be ok :P

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Well, firstly as Ent said many times, this is not a democracy.

 

Secondly, even IF somethig similar would be in place, your price list is way too low. There is a number of players that could afford easily to pay for, let's say, several new monsters by themselves.

 

Besides, quite a little benefit for the game developers. However, if "a currency" used were rostos from a shop ... who knows. Want a new monster/feature etc. - donate 1k rostos to a special npc.

 

As I stated, these were only examples to suggest how things could work. I'm aware that the numbers were only indicators, not to be taken as actual amounts. I only wanted to balance out donations: a little for harvestables, more for items, more for monsters, etc.

 

thats kinda how things go already =\

 

Not really, unless you donated for the implementation of mini-events?

 

I have a better idea; I'll give a list of ~20 names and from now on only those people will discuss and vote on new game changes.

 

Most people around here don't even have the foresight to see what's best for themselves let alone the game as a whole.

 

(EDIT: and by "best for the game as a whole" i mean inducing the most fun (i.e. people smiling, having 'yay' feelings... and i do mean long term, not just when change is made) and highest retention rate of new players)

 

I thought of this option too, but as Ent previously stated that he wanted to concentrate on new players, I think limiting the people who can vote and discuss alterations leaves the new players without a voice. I'm not sure if this would be advisable.

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so you think that 20 ppl can make a decision for rest 1k ppl ?

Yes. Definitely.

I think 20 very intelligent people with lots of knowledge/experience in the right areas would do a much better job making decisions than relying on majority vote of 1k people of varied knowledge, foresight, intelligence, etc.

 

Meritocracy FTW.

 

well maybe, but then how will you choose them ? mods? maybe... then it seems it should be ok :P

lol o,O'

What brings you to the conclusion that moderator status = good at game design?

 

(That's not to say some of the names on the list wouldn't be current EL mods)

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(soz meant to edit above post, not post twice >.>)

 

I thought of this option too, but as Ent previously stated that he wanted to concentrate on new players, I think limiting the people who can vote and discuss alterations leaves the new players without a voice. I'm not sure if this would be advisable.

Well, it leaves a lot of people without a voice... which is the whole idea, considering most of those voices are shouting something ill conceived.

 

So long as the people selected are well up to the task, people who think outside their own little box, can see the degree of in value different points of view and consider the rull range of effect that would be had, they'll make decisions that newbies will enjoy.

Edited by Korrode

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lol? so maybe it should be you who decide ?

 

Mods - cuz they also play, lvl various skills, and have a good knowledge of game, and also they are trustable ( i hope :P ).

 

well .... maybe make a democratical elections? vote for a candidates, who will be tho ones to decide and discuss on new things.

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lol? so maybe it should be you who decide ?

Ya, that's what i suggested :D

 

Mods - cuz they also play, lvl various skills, and have a good knowledge of game, and also they are trustable ( i hope :P ).

Mods, presumably, are selected for various personality traits. Things such as;

  • Ability to remain calm under pressure, or when dealing with aggressive people
  • Highly diplomatic demeanour
  • General friendliness and a willingness to help others
  • Good language skills (i.e. spelling, grammar, ability to explain complex issues in a simplistic fashion)
  • Multi-lingual skills
  • ...and a bunch of other stuff i cba listing

These are all great personal assets, no doubt, but none of them directly equate to being highly capable and suited for game design.

 

The fact you dont understand this without me having to explain it illustrates much of my point.

 

EDIT: Additionally, your comment about mods having "a good knowledge of game" would probably be a selection criteria, and knowledge of the current system and outlay is pivotal to recommending good changes, but that one point alone doesn't anywhere near automatically make the current moderators the cream-of-the-crop in regards to game design.

Edited by Korrode

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well it is your oppinion. and i have mine. thats the difference.

and ofc you do not mention that mods have game knowledge :P

 

Edit: lol stop editing your mesages.. omg :D

I am not saying that Mods are best persons to decide, but they are the ones that is close to that :D

Edited by Kornholio

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well it is your oppinion. and i have mine. thats the difference.

and ofc you do not mention that mods have game knowledge :P

 

Edit: lol stop editing your mesages.. omg :D

I am not saying that Mods are best persons to decide, but they are the ones that is close to that :D

 

The longer I play this game, the more I get the impression that in EL, mod just = babysitter / nanny / filter. It's a shame... because some of the mods I know have a lot more knowledge and insight in game mechanics, especially EL game mechanics, and the effect a possible change has on the game and the community as a whole, than they will ever be given credit for. Of course this also applies to a few of the regular players.

 

Now I for one will never be a gamedeveloper, but in my line of work i try to use the contacts I have if I think they can contribute to improving certain things. When someone gives me wellconstrued proof, undeniable facts, or a good sales pitch, hell yea I'll absolutely treasure that. It creates respect both ways, and appreciation. But I also know not to have too many of these contacts, as that will create conflict of interests and frustration, envy, anger. Business may be business but some common sense, as well as a bit of sensibility has never done anyone any harm.

 

Sounds familiar?

 

So in my opinion Korrode has a good point.

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I think 20 very intelligent people with lots of knowledge/experience in the right areas would do a much better job making decisions than relying on majority vote of 1k people of varied knowledge, foresight, intelligence, etc.

How about instead of 20 very intelligent people, top 5 active people in each skill that the change affects?

For example. a level 100 crafter will know better if change X will hurt crafters more than a level 73 crafter or someone intelligent but doesn't do crafting. This way you protect all skills.

 

Regarding putting moderators on your list of 20 people, moderators don't get to play as much as regular players because they are busy solving problems and hence their opinions won't be so accurate. Also, moderators will always give a single opinion because as people in positions of authority, they won't show to regular users that they may have opposite opinions on issues. So more than one or two moderators will be redundant.

Edited by hussam

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I think 20 very intelligent people with lots of knowledge/experience in the right areas would do a much better job making decisions than relying on majority vote of 1k people of varied knowledge, foresight, intelligence, etc.

How about instead of 20 very intelligent people, top 5 active people in each skill?

For example. a level 100 crafter will know better if change X will hurt crafters more than a level 73 crafter or someone intelligent but doesn't do crafting. This way you protect all skills.

I'd have to disagree with having skill-based criteria for choosing who would hold sway on a vote system in this manner, simply because it falls into personal and not arbitrary decision making. You would not be getting unbiased opinions simply because something that "might" be good for the game as a whole may just be detrimental to a single skill to some greater or lesser degree and therefore get voted down. It's the same as taking personal opinions on voting as it is currently...but instead of "omfg this will ruin the game (for me)" it will then become "omfg this will ruin the game (for my skillset)".

 

Other than that I'd be happy to hear precisely which names korrode has in mind and how we all go about agreeing if theyre the RIGHT names....

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i love this discussion but changes are up to ent/radu

 

but i do like the layout wimpie. i do think the values are a little low but 1k rostos are miles too high

Edited by dragon_23

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but i do like the layout wimpie. i do think the values are a little low but 1k rostos are miles too high

 

Well, look at it from game owner's perspective - let's say players want a new skill/feature that requires several man-hours of work of programmers (client and server side) as well as graphics designer. High price set would ensure that this is what players as a whole community really want, as well as that a compensation for a work done is decent. It would also cause that players do not request changes to be made too often - gathering large number of rostos would require work, time and dedication. On the oter hand, if 300 players support such change, it is just a bit over 3 rostos per head, that's what some lose in one invasion/pk session etc. Of course for a small change a cost could be way lower, depending on a workload. I suspect people would value such changes more, as well as have a true feeling they can influence the way the game develops. The only concern I have is that perhaps in order for this to work the current player base is too small and too diversified.

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but i do like the layout wimpie. i do think the values are a little low but 1k rostos are miles too high

 

Well, look at it from game owner's perspective - let's say players want a new skill/feature that requires several man-hours of work of programmers (client and server side) as well as graphics designer. High price set would ensure that this is what players as a whole community really want, as well as that a compensation for a work done is decent. It would also cause that players do not request changes to be made too often - gathering large number of rostos would require work, time and dedication. On the oter hand, if 300 players support such change, it is just a bit over 3 rostos per head, that's what some lose in one invasion/pk session etc. Of course for a small change a cost could be way lower, depending on a workload. I suspect people would value such changes more, as well as have a true feeling they can influence the way the game develops. The only concern I have is that perhaps in order for this to work the current player base is too small and too diversified.

 

It was never my intention to suggest players should request changes, but it's nice you brought this up :huh: (j/k)

Indeed, dedication and mutual appreciation were the main reasons I had in mind when starting the topic. I agree that it's rather difficult to adjust the donations to the right standards, but maybe it's too soon to focus on that issue. I was only curious to see how you all thought of a possible combination of poll and donation for alterations.

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Having a council of reliable/knowledgable players to assist in the 'what to implement next' slash player feedback slash game impact process has been mentioned several times over the years. I agree with Korrode, and would be very interested in who his list would include.

 

It can't hurt, and would most most likely lessen the amount of epic 'omg i quit it'll ruin the game' posts and such.

Especially if those in the 'leet group' had access to a private forum in which to discuss :huh:

 

Note: I'm aware I haven't been active lately in game, that does not mean I do not keep tabs on discussions in forums. (hey all)

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I voted yes for the changes to harvesting , but so what if more people voted no ? Perhaps they DID FULLY understand what the suggestion was and they just didnt want it ? Ever thought about that ?

 

Why does everyone have to assume just because somebody doesnt like an idea they are immediately an un intelligent waste of server space ?

 

And Korrode WTF dude if you are so intelligent and such a God at designing MMOs why did you have to use EL as the basis of your own QEL game ?

 

FAIL at attempting to put yourself in charge of EL as well OMG

 

*edit* I KNEW this was coming I just KNEW it !! it was just a matter of time before Korrode decided it was best left to him to decide the fate of the entire game its absolutely hilarious

 

I know I said i would leave others to enjoy thier game in a seperate thread but i'll be damned if I sit back and keep my mouth shut about this one its just too priceless to let slip ! again .......... OMFG !!

Edited by Ateh

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Ateh.. get off Korr's case pls.

 

If you reread the threads on the depletable harvestables, you will see that many people there, but there have been even more in discussion in ch 6, saying they may have voted yes had the poll been different.

 

With everyone here thinking their own opinion is the only right one, all these discussion turn into some lame 'harvesters vs. fighters' or 'mixers vs harvesters' or 'fighters vs everybody else', so how the hell can that be any good in the long run?

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Ateh.. get off Korr's case pls.

 

Why ?

I think Ateh's post is the most intelligent here.

He is right.

And he can post what he think about this as well as all other.

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A group of about 20 knowledgeable people.....sounds like a council to me. An EL Council.

 

So, perhaps we could have 20 people of whom there are a number of categories. At least two council members should be assigned to a category. Preferably three.

 

There would be a category for each skill, a category for newbs, a category for mods and a category for feature abuse. The category for each skill idea could be replaced with a mixer, a fighter and a harvester slot.

 

The council members would be appointed to take feedback from each of these. Perhaps discussions could be specific channels for that category and the council members could review them before giving their feedback on the item.

 

Sound about right?

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Ateh.. get off Korr's case pls.

 

Why ?

I think Ateh's post is the most intelligent here.

He is right.

And he can post what he think about this as well as all other.

 

Because this isn't about personal likes and dislikes towards other people?

 

blah why do i even bother

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One of the problems with EL proposels is that they get fully discussed during europe night hours. The only way to stay informed about things happening is leaving a char online to read it next morning.

 

When we got the url to vote on the forum, it took me some time before i could read trough all the discussions about it. I did have some questions about it before i would wanted to vote. Some relevant questions were asked and not answered before i went to sleep, so i decidet to wait til the morning and found that both the discussion and poll were closed. Maybe it would have been better to have the discussion open some days more to be able to get answer on your questions before the poll starts, so that you actually understand what you are voting for or against.

 

As I DO care about the game, and dont believe Radu would ruin the game, I would have voted Yes.

 

~Lan~

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Game has changed mch in the last few years, ppl top at ,for example, a/d had more benefits than people starting nowadays (TS effect, full restoration etc)

I don't have a problem, people that have "dedicated" their lives to EL would advise Ent about his thoughts for the game, or even providing some ideas.

But on the other hand people 's voice should be heard ,even if they play this game for a month only.

 

BUT

It's Ent's game, his money ,his future is at risk when making a bad call, not mine not anyone else's and he has to do whatever he thinks is better for him.

So relax and enjoy the game

~Xar

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