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Depletable Resources Poll

Depletable Resources  

356 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you want it?

    • Yes!
      127
    • No, omfg, will ruin teh game!!1!
      193
    • I don't care.
      36


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1- yes to both

 

2- yes to harvables but no to legal multi play

 

3- no to both

 

Just a suggestion. I don't plan to start this poll, but the info would be interesting to see.

 

If you did a poll on that question you you would also need:

4. Yes to multi play, no to harvestables

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My crystal ball is very cloudy today, and the spirits are quiet, so I can’t predict what the impact of depletable sources will be, if it will be, but I voted yes, for one simple reason: any addition to the game that involves a bit of more strategy can only be a good thing.

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Voted NO - coin landed on heads ^^

 

Radu can flip his own coins to see if he wants to implement something or not. :D He is asking our opinions. Your vote is unhelpful if not your thought out opinion. Way to skew the poll. :D

 

Ofc I didn't flip a coin to decide. Especially considering the question. Gullible players these days...

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Depleteable resources are good iff implemented fairly. I've voted "yes", but implementation needs careful thought.

 

Consider using a "depletion level" rather than fixed quotas for each resource.

 

Each resource site has a "depletion level" and "timestamp". The "depletion level" adds to the difficulty of harvesting that resource, so harvest yields per hour decrease as the depletion gets worse, but never actually run out.

 

Storing a "timestamp" allows the resource to be restocked when harvest attempts are made, rather than having a background task update unvisited resources.

 

Illustrated through the fine art of pseudo code:

on harvest attempt:
  if current time > timestamp
	  decrease depletion level (current time - timestamp)
	  if depletion level decreased
		  timestamp = current time + offset
	  endif
  endif
  make harvest attempt (skill level vs resource level+depletion level)
  if harvest successful
	  increase depletion level
  endif
 end harvest attempt

You can then choose how the depletion level gets increased/decreases (I'd suggest an exponential decay as the decrease, with a half-life dependant on the resource type). The time "offset" is an optimisation to avoid calling decrease depletion too often.

 

With this approach, for any group of harvesters around a single resource there is a point at which the rate of depletion is balanced by the rate of recovery. For a single low level harvester, this could be a profitable level, but for a crowd around the lupines it would unprofitable.

 

(This implementation costs two integers per resource.)

Edited by trollson

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^ best method of implementation i've seen so far

 

Having 'over-used' harvest sites slow down, rather than actually deplete until they cant be used at all, making seeking out other sites better but not required, is the most palatable solution, imo.

 

Keeps it feasible for the 'i like to harvest afk-ish at work' types, but gives benefits to the 'explorers'.

Edited by Korrode

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1- yes to both

 

2- yes to harvables but no to legal multi play

 

3- no to both

 

Just a suggestion. I don't plan to start this poll, but the info would be interesting to see.

 

If you did a poll on that question you you would also need:

4. Yes to multi play, no to harvestables

It seemed like yes to multi no to harvestables wasn't really an option. But the addition of that question may hold some valuable insight also. I left out that option because of this statement in Radu's original post.

 

We were thinking, again, to allow multiplaying. Yes, we had votes about it before, on how it will ruin the game and blah blah.

Some of the concerns were valid, some were not.

The main problem is with harvesting. You can still do it more or less afk, and if you have two computers it is relatively easy to run a main and ~2 alts that only harvest. This is also the problem that affects other things, such as gold farming and over abundance of items.

 

So, in order to allow multiplaying, there must be a solution to the problem of everyone having 3-4 alts only harvesting for the main.

The solution is simple and elegant: Depletable resources.

 

 

Voted NO - coin landed on heads ^^

 

Radu can flip his own coins to see if he wants to implement something or not. :D He is asking our opinions. Your vote is unhelpful if not your thought out opinion. Way to skew the poll. :D

 

Ofc I didn't flip a coin to decide. Especially considering the question. Gullible players these days...

Sorry then :D We need some sort of sarcasm meter on threads like these. lol

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I didn't vote because imo neither of the options (mini events or evaporating items) are very workable. The mini events are a constant frustration and running around trying to find stuff will in most likelihood be no better. I wish a solution could be found that didn't punish those of us that are just trying to have fun and play honest. With as difficult as it was to recently harvest the latter portion of the 150,000 items needed for the month I might as well have been doing office work, laundry or washing dishes. This is an exceptional game and I would gladly pay a monthly fee, buy a perk or whatever to keep it fun, otherwise I guess it will be fighting, as harvesting for this many items has lost it's joy.

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I was hesitant to bring that up...before harvest events there were rarely less than 500 people logged in. Now there are rarely over 400. 344 right now and its almost noon eastern. People HATE the harvest events and will hate limited resources more. It is killing the game. More than one person has done #kill_me yes because of this mess, and the forum posters represent a very, very small percentage of actual players. Entropy you have to realize the majority of players want to log on and play and have fun - you are making changes that are hurting people's ability to do that. How in the name of all that is good and Holy can making things worse have a good outcome? Answer: IT CAN'T.

 

Those that left were mainly alts and people ahrvestign AFK from work and shit like that. This is not a game for AFKers. Those who left, good riddance. I am, obviously, going to focus on those who stayed, not on those who left.

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Voted No.

 

The problem is, that all the skills that involve using the mixing window need harvestables - either directly like mixing essences, or indirectly like summoning. If harvestables get limited, alt-harvesting will be common as every harvest will be priceless. I won't be suprised if some people will try to trade between their alts to level up faster, forcing other players either to buy ingredients from such alt-harvesting players for very high price or to join the alt-harv competition. Also, if the recources get limited, their price will go up, and so will prices of the end products, like SRs and HEs. That might make training on mobs or even serping them non-profittable, and so the fighters will be forced to find another ways of making profit - as hauling will be no longer possible, they might be forced to harvest or even join the afk-harv society.

 

Another thing worth considering are new players. They are not wealthy, and lose a lot of ingredients until they develop their skills enough to start making gc out of it. With prices of harvestables going sky high, they might be simply unable to even start, and they might hake their character a pure warrior - and warriors need HEs, SRs and armor, which need harvestables, which are limited and dominated by alt-harvers selling them for high prices.

Edited by Wesmania

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Depleteable resources are good iff implemented fairly. I've voted "yes", but implementation needs careful thought.

 

Consider using a "depletion level" rather than fixed quotas for each resource.

 

Each resource site has a "depletion level" and "timestamp". The "depletion level" adds to the difficulty of harvesting that resource, so harvest yields per hour decrease as the depletion gets worse, but never actually run out.

 

That's a good idea too. There are quite a few ways to implement this whole thing, and each method has its advantages and disadvantages. And they can also be combined to some extent. Too bad that the players don't want it.

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At this point I am unable to vote because there's not enough information to judge the choices.

 

I think the idea has great potential so I don't want to vote 'no'. But the actual implementation will determine if it makes the game more fun or "ruins" it. Without knowing more detail I can't vote 'yes'. I'm not comfortable issuing a blank-check and then being told to "shut up, you voted for it" if there are problems.

 

I believe the idea has merit and is worth fine-tuning to one or two specific implementation options. Then I could provide some useful input or even a vote. But currently it's simply to vague.

 

Edit:

There are quite a few ways to implement this whole thing, and each method has its advantages and disadvantages.

Knowing some of those ways would make for an interesting discussion.

Edited by bkc56

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[...]Too bad that the players don't want it.

 

I've talked with some buddies today: most of 'em are only afraid of that this change will not be a simple implementation of the game, but that this will lead to have another game, different from Eternal Lands, that they can like or not. You have to admit that changing the resource system will change the game itself (considering combined also with allowing multiplaying), in some ways...some people are only askin'theirselves IF they will like that hypotetical game like they enjoy the actual EL, that all of 'em love.

 

Anyway I've voted yes 'cause we can always *try* the new system (even trought trying it on the test server: people won't come there to not waste time? offer them the chance to win some good stOOf on the main server), and take a rollback if it doesn't work: will not be the first time :D

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I was hesitant to bring that up...before harvest events there were rarely less than 500 people logged in. Now there are rarely over 400. 344 right now and its almost noon eastern. People HATE the harvest events and will hate limited resources more. It is killing the game. More than one person has done #kill_me yes because of this mess, and the forum posters represent a very, very small percentage of actual players. Entropy you have to realize the majority of players want to log on and play and have fun - you are making changes that are hurting people's ability to do that. How in the name of all that is good and Holy can making things worse have a good outcome? Answer: IT CAN'T.

 

Those that left were mainly alts and people ahrvestign AFK from work and shit like that. This is not a game for AFKers. Those who left, good riddance. I am, obviously, going to focus on those who stayed, not on those who left.

 

 

The amount of resources required to produce finished goods mandates a ridiculous amount of wasted time harvesting. To dictate that all a person can do while they harvest the materials needed to make seridium bars (or anything for that matter) is sit and stare at the screen with swirly dots for entertainment is absurd. We are supposed to anxiously await the next exciting "you hurt yourself and lost 1hp" event!!! YAY! Harvesting is almost as entertaining as watching a chia-pet grow.

 

\o/

 

If you plan on going through with limited resources, you need to cut the required ingredients down by a factor of 10...and remove the crappy mini-events.

 

You are being incredibly short sighted to say "those that leve were harvesting alts and afk harvesters" and that you are going to focus on those who stayed. I know for a fact that some who left were good players. I have been one who has worked to get new players, but now you are TRYING to run me off. YES I read while I harvest...now I cant do that so I started doing A/D instead, and only mixing HE's. Now you want to make it where there is a good chance that I won't be able to find silver ore when I need it. What is left for joe player like me? NOTHING.

 

I appreciate the game. I do. I buy from the shop because of that...and you know more about programming than I ever will...but man, when you have people with graduate degrees in economics and business and philosophy giving advice in those arena's - use it, or at least listen and consider. Any time I have been successfuly, it has been because I was willing to listen to those who knew more than I did. Negativity never translates to positive results in a social context. You are imposing negatives and wanting positives, and it will not happen. You are making the game worse - no ifs or buts.

 

I will make a prediction - if you do this, you will be stunned by the number of people who leave...and these won't be harvesting alts and "afk harvesters."

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The amount of resources required to produce finished goods mandates a ridiculous amount of wasted time harvesting. To dictate that all a person can do while they harvest the materials needed to make seridium bars (or anything for that matter) is sit and stare at the screen with swirly dots for entertainment is absurd. We are supposed to anxiously await the next exciting "you hurt yourself and lost 1hp" event!!! YAY! Harvesting is almost as entertaining as watching a chia-pet grow.

All I can say about this is: LOL

 

You are being incredibly short sighted to say "those that leve were harvesting alts and afk harvesters" and that you are going to focus on those who stayed. I know for a fact that some who left were good players. I have been one who has worked to get new players, but now you are TRYING to run me off.

Well, I am so glad someone who has more data about the players is contradicting me. Left in my own short sighted ignorance, I would have thought that most of the people playing the game didn't leave, but now I see that I was wrong.

 

I appreciate the game. I do. I buy from the shop because of that...and you know more about programming than I ever will...but man, when you have people with graduate degrees in economics and business and philosophy giving advice in those arena's - use it, or at least listen and consider.

People such as?

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NO to depletable harvestables

 

and NO to multiplay

 

reasons are very simple...this will just make life harder for honest players...

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I would say yes if there comes more harvest spots with decent amounts of ores. With only 3-5 relatively close spots for all ores it will be a pain when they get depleted over and over again. My vote depends on how it will be implemented, but since there is no exact explanation I won't vote.

 

And I also agree with ermabwed's first post.

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I voted no.

 

The reason I play this game after so many years is due to being unique. When I come back from work I can sit down and play a not so fast paced game, EL, and its relaxing.

 

With having those depletable resources this game will be like games as lets say WOW or RS.

Even with those mini events, you dont have to be actively searching for mines.

 

Its one of the reasons people (well I did) stop playing games like wow, and come back to EL.

 

I hope this game will keep its playing style.

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The amount of resources required to produce finished goods mandates a ridiculous amount of wasted time harvesting. To dictate that all a person can do while they harvest the materials needed to make seridium bars (or anything for that matter) is sit and stare at the screen with swirly dots for entertainment is absurd. We are supposed to anxiously await the next exciting "you hurt yourself and lost 1hp" event!!! YAY! Harvesting is almost as entertaining as watching a chia-pet grow.

All I can say about this is: LOL

 

Just because it is funny, doesn't make it any less true. I detailed the process for one seridium bar to a WoW friend of mine - she was left stunned by the amount of work and raw materials. Harvesting is boring. You are legislating boredom - not a good thing for a "game."

 

You are being incredibly short sighted to say "those that left were harvesting alts and afk harvesters" and that you are going to focus on those who stayed. I know for a fact that some who left were good players. I have been one who has worked to get new players, but now you are TRYING to run me off.

Well, I am so glad someone who has more data about the players is contradicting me. Left in my own short sighted ignorance, I would have thought that most of the people playing the game didn't leave, but now I see that I was wrong.

 

Your mind appears to be already made up, as indicated by the way you worded "no" in the poll. Rather than addressing the problem and accepting advice from people who might - just might, know more about business and human psychology than you, you turn sarcastic. I may not have more data, but I had friends who left. It happened.

 

I appreciate the game. I do. I buy from the shop because of that...and you know more about programming than I ever will...but man, when you have people with graduate degrees in economics and business and philosophy giving advice in those arena's - use it, or at least listen and consider.

People such as?

 

Well, I am working on my 4th degree right now...but you have made it apparent that my input is not wanted. Managing multi-billion dollar corporations and doing advanced research in Keynesian Economics, would in no way give me the qualifications needed for input on how design a micro socio-economic paradigm for an encapsulated macroeconomy on the scale that exists in EL.

 

I am just trying to help. For the average user who doesn't read the forums or care about this drama, the game was better two months ago. People want to log-in and have fun - forgetting about day to day problems and issues. What is happening is that whole new issues are being created - issues that will not only keep EL from growing - it will cause contraction. You might as well institute required tax returns in the game, complete with 1040's and tax audits - these changes are on par.

 

Do what you want and I won't say another word - I have said all I have to say.

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Some of us spend too much time on EL because it is fun and relaxing. Might be better for us to go read a book or something. Those who feel depletable resources will frustrate them and make EL less fun and relaxing should go to the library.

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Well, I am working on my 4th degree right now...but you have made it apparent that my input is not wanted. Managing multi-billion dollar corporations and doing advanced research in Keynesian Economics, would in no way give me the qualifications needed for input on how design a micro socio-economic paradigm for an encapsulated macroeconomy on the scale that exists in EL.

 

Keynesian Economics???? ROFLMAO.

That's the funniest thing I ever heard recently. No, I would NEVER, EVER take advice from someone who believes in that crap. I'd rather go the South Park way and divinate using animals than to follow that pseudo economic garbage.

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sorry i voted no, not a bad idea but i dont think it would be very good with el cause people come on like me and harvest while chatting and catching up with people and having to run around looking for new harvest spots would be too much of a hassle, sorry

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Well, I am working on my 4th degree right now...but you have made it apparent that my input is not wanted. Managing multi-billion dollar corporations and doing advanced research in Keynesian Economics, would in no way give me the qualifications needed for input on how design a micro socio-economic paradigm for an encapsulated macroeconomy on the scale that exists in EL.

 

Keynesian Economics???? ROFLMAO.

That's the funniest thing I ever heard recently. No, I would NEVER, EVER take advice from someone who believes in that crap. I'd rather go the South Park way and divinate using animals that to follow that pseudo economic crap.

 

 

Obviously you don't know what Keynesian economics is.

 

For the uninitiated, it is a moderate macroeconomic theory that favors neither supply side or consumer side economic and fiscal policy. It is balanced and favors equilibrium, as opposed to creating either traditional capitalist or marxist imbalances. It is ideal for an economy like EL.

 

It is not something to ROFLMAO about. That kind of reply is like saying "i686 code????? ROFLMAO."

 

Maybe the animals at ip...nevermind.

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