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Depletable resources and multiplaying

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Multiplying - yes, but only if:

 

One way to solve the alt problem and not sure if its possible programming wise, would be to programme the client so only one window per computer could be opened, any further windows would overide the original.

sweet. we l33t puter nerdz will have an advantage... as we should. :lipssealed:

 

O im sure l33t puter nerdz would find a way around it, but if they got caught it should be a lifetime ban or total sto and skills wipe, none of this 1 month ban soft stuff :devlish:

Ah, that's what i wanted to determine. You guys are suggesting, in essence, nothing different than what we have now: You're still wanting what's currently defined in EL standards as "illegal multiplay" to be illegal.

 

So why bother? It's a waste of a client developers time.

 

EDIT:

So then, you're suggesting 1 char logged on from each IP at a time?

 

I suggested to discuss what feasible limit means and set it on a level that suits the game the best. In my case I would be happy with 1 char per IP, but 2-3 per IP (even if run on 2-3 real/virtual machines) would not mean any harm to the game I think. Players who are dedicated enough to play the game in such a way deserve some credit for their efforts (I'm sure they can do much more significant for the game balance things than just playing 2-3 alts anyway).

Ok seems you're saying something different to Conavar, Cru... and i agree with you.

Edited by Korrode

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Multiplying - yes, but only if:

 

One way to solve the alt problem and not sure if its possible programming wise, would be to programme the client so only one window per computer could be opened, any further windows would overide the original.

sweet. we l33t puter nerdz will have an advantage... as we should. :lipssealed:

 

O im sure l33t puter nerdz would find a way around it, but if they got caught it should be a lifetime ban or total sto and skills wipe, none of this 1 month ban soft stuff :devlish:

Ah, that's what i wanted to determine. You guys are suggesting, in essence, nothing different than what we have now: You're still wanting what's currently defined in EL standards as "illegal multiplay" to be illegal.

 

So why bother? It's a waste of a client developers time.

 

 

erm no, if you had read my full post in which Cru quoted from, you would see the suggestion came with player being able to have as many "alts" as they wanted but only one logged on at a time, trading between alts would be done via an NPC.

 

Limiting players to 1 char logged at a time per comp would do away with most of the problems players have raised. ie: resource sitting/pvp/spawn hogging/bypassing anti perk while still allowing alts and familys to play together on seperate computers with out any problems.

 

Edit: So it wouldnt be illegal to have alts, but as it is now it would be illegal to hack the client to serve your own needs

Edited by conavar

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trading between alts would be done via an NPC.

Why bother? What's the point? (EDIT: ok ok i went and read your post; make anti less-so 10 free pp's... there'd still be a lot of other ways 'free pp's' would be had... btw i'm not saying 'free pp's' is a bad thing; everyone would have them, so all fair... i dont think it's worth it just for the sake of anti perk pp's... everyone could do it, so meh)

 

...and if i am capable of having 2 chars logged on at once, than i am controlling, with what you're suggesting would they be allowed to trade?

Edited by Korrode

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trading between alts would be done via an NPC.

Why bother? What's the point?

 

...and if i am capable of having 2 chars logged on at once, than i am controlling, with what you're suggesting would they be allowed to trade?

 

If the client was made to only allow 1 logged in at a time and you had 2 ,then you have hacked the client no ?

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If the client was made to only allow 1 logged in at a time and you had 2 ,then you have hacked the client no ?

No.

 

1. Two computers, One desk.

 

2. I'm 99.9% sure without touching the client's code i can run more than one at a time, no matter what method of implementation is used.

My OS controls my apps, and i control my OS... i know that's not the case with some people, but tis for me :lipssealed:

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If the client was made to only allow 1 logged in at a time and you had 2 ,then you have hacked the client no ?

No.

 

1. Two computers, One desk.

 

2. I'm 99.9% sure without touching the client's code i can run more than one at a time, no matter what method of implementation is used.

My OS controls my apps, and i control my OS... i know that's not the case with some people, but tis for me :lipssealed:

 

Well in that case you would have the alts tied to one account. as it stands now each char is a seperate account. How it could be is when you type in your password it takes you to your char list to choose which one you log in (ie your account being all your chars not just one). Logging on from a seperate computer to the same account would A ) not be possible while the other is open or B ) in the case of a forced log, logging out the original

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Well in that case you would have the alts tied to one account. as it stands now each char is a seperate account. How it could be is when you type in your password it takes you to your char list to choose which one you log in (ie your account being all your chars not just one). Logging on from a seperate computer to the same account would A ) not be possible while the other is open or B ) in the case of a forced log, logging out the original

But, all this is just so Anti is less-so 10 free pp's?

While just for the likes of me; HoS, HS, inorg:6, vegetal:4, arti:1... would all become "free" pp's? ...why bother with this just for the sake of Anti?

(EDIT: for the record they wouldn't really be free pp's for me, i cant be assed with all that mixing and junk, lol... but it's an example)

 

(Again i wanna stress, i dont think these being "free pp's" is bad, everyone will be able to do it, all fair.)

Edited by Korrode

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Well in that case you would have the alts tied to one account. as it stands now each char is a seperate account. How it could be is when you type in your password it takes you to your char list to choose which one you log in (ie your account being all your chars not just one). Logging on from a seperate computer to the same account would A ) not be possible while the other is open or B ) in the case of a forced log, logging out the original

But, all this is just so Anti is less-so 10 free pp's?

While just for the likes of me; HoS, HS, inorg:6, vegetal:4, arti:1... would all become "free" pp's? ...why bother with this just for the sake of Anti?

 

(Again i wanna stress, i dont think these being "free pp's" is bad, everyone will be able to do it, all fair.)

 

Not just anti, ppl have raised alot of other possible problems with allowing unlimited alts.. such no more need for rosts while training, pvp, resource sitting (even worse if they are depletable). resupplying main at spawns etc etc etc

 

If it was just about anti i would say just remove the perk :lipssealed:

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Not just anti, ppl have raised alot of other possible problems with allowing unlimited alts.. such no more need for rosts while training, pvp, resource sitting (even worse if they are depletable). resupplying main at spawns etc etc etc

Hang on hang on, now you're saying "unlimited alts", anything i'm saying is related to having as little as one alt that can be traded with... i cant figure out what you're suggesting Cona :P

 

My straight up question; with whatever it is that you are suggesting, if i could log in 2 chars, without hax0ring the client, would they be allowed to trade?

 

If your suggestion has become: Allow multiplay, but limit the amount of logged in chars from an IP to a 'low' number, sounds good.

 

I just didn't see the point in the 'make the client (try to) detect other running clients, and not work if any found'.

Edited by Korrode

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I would like to play with this on the test server, get a better idea of how it would work.... though, I totally understand all the work you would have to do. Hard to actually put an opinion to this idea, I see both sides of the coin quite clearly. Either way, we will learn to adapt and move on. after all the game is awesome and full of (mostly) awesome people.

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I haven't read all the replies (I'm at work), so I'm sorry if I will say something that some1 sayd precedently

 

 

 

the idea of making resources limited is not wrong (as in the real market, a resource CAN have a price ONLY if it is not unlimited...but this is probably valid in the real life only and not in the mmorpgs), but allowing a free, unlimited multiplaying in a world that has limited resources is not a good idea. This will mean that the people who spent all the time in EL will become richier and richier (and Ent will calibrate the game to make those people to not become allmighty), and all other players that can spent on our beloved game only some poor minutes (with the other time afk, trying to collect the resources to be mixed in this minutes) will become poorer and poorer (relatively to the richier ones). And you know, in this game as in the real life, the gcs MAKE the difference.

 

 

so...my foolish idea (if you think that this two things - multiplaying and limited resources - had to be implemented both):

the quantity of items to be harvested in a certain time (an EL day? a RL day?) depends on the math average of your 5 best skill. So there isn't a real world lack of resources, but the depleting of a resource depends on the character itself. This will work also if can be implemented a cap for a certain quantity of items to be harvested per IP. In this way, we don't have to "adjust" the total amount of harvestables items in base of the people that are on line at the same time (if there are 2k people playing, cannot be the same situation when we had only 300, if the depleting is related to the resource itself). Behind this system, it can be a random or calculated depleting of a resource for ALL the players, maybe an event by chance that can evaluate how many players are using the same spot.

In this way, the people who play with multiple character had to work hard to raise at least 5 skills of every single account they use, and this (hopefully) will prevent players to sum all the resources on a single character, making this last one very rich (the worth of a character is ALSO the time you spend in his grow). In this system, multiplay will mean that a single person can share resources or semi finished goods between his characters, specializing one in manu, one other in a/d, and so on.

 

Yes, this is much more complicated (to be implemented) that the original idea, I know (or not?).

 

Surely I've missed to considerate a lot of things...but those are just my 2 cents :P

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Not just anti, ppl have raised alot of other possible problems with allowing unlimited alts.. such no more need for rosts while training, pvp, resource sitting (even worse if they are depletable). resupplying main at spawns etc etc etc

Hang on hang on, now you're saying "unlimited alts", anything i'm saying is related to having as little as one alt that can be traded with... i cant figure out what you're suggesting Cona :P

 

My straight up question; with whatever it is that you are suggesting, if i could log in 2 chars, without hax0ring the client, would they be allowed to trade?

 

If your suggestion has become: Allow multiplay, but limit the amout of logged in chars from an IP to a 'low' number, sounds good.

 

I just didn't see the point in the 'make the client (try) and detect other running clients, and not work if any found'.

 

My suggestion is based on the bosses first post, where he doesnt put a limit on the amount of alts allowed.( you quoted me from Cru's post which missed half my suggestion out,which was based on Radu's post of maybe 3-4+ harving for the main)

 

If you allow alts to be logged in at the same time but limit the number allowed per IP then the mods would still have to check to see if player A had 2 alts or 3 or 4 etc.So only slightly lessens their workload

 

So imo you have 3 choices

 

A ) allow total unlimited freedom of alts (with all the problems that might bring)

B ) Allow alts and between alt trading etc but only allow 1 logged in at a time

C ) keep at as it is now.(which is fine imo)

Edited by conavar

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C ) keep at as it is now.(which is fine imo)

Actually it is not fine as it is now, which is why this keeps coming up.

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I'm not much of a harver as most of you know (HoS ftw :P ) but sadly i disagree with the idea of multiplaying in any case. Yes, actually depletable resources would be fine but the idea of multiplaying irritates me, really.

 

I dont want EL to turn into "Who has biggest....erm best computer game" at all. Just my 2 cents :P

 

-Kaddy

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C ) keep at as it is now.(which is fine imo)

Actually it is not fine as it is now, which is why this keeps coming up.

 

I ment fine gameplay wise (1 char is enough per person at a time ), I agree it maybe not be fine for the mods having to work through all the trouble.

 

If the whole point is to ease the work of moderators then just allow unlimited alts with no restrictions. Is that the case ?

Edited by conavar

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C ) keep at as it is now.(which is fine imo)

Actually it is not fine as it is now, which is why this keeps coming up.

 

I ment fine gameplay wise (1 char is enough per person at a time ), I agree it maybe not be fine for the mods having to work through all the trouble.

 

If the whole point is to ease the work of moderators then just allow unlimited alts with no restrictions. Is that the case ?

Nope. It is not fine gameplay wise. It has nothing to do with moderator workload.

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Just allow multiplay outright, imo.

 

it wont be the end of the world.

 

EDIT: oh, err, sorry for off topic then :P

EDIT2: Aisy teh post edit0r >.>

Edited by Korrode

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C ) keep at as it is now.(which is fine imo)

Actually it is not fine as it is now, which is why this keeps coming up.

 

I ment fine gameplay wise (1 char is enough per person at a time ), I agree it maybe not be fine for the mods having to work through all the trouble.

 

If the whole point is to ease the work of moderators then just allow unlimited alts with no restrictions. Is that the case ?

Nope. It is not fine gameplay wise. It has nothing to do with moderator workload.

 

How so ? (not including the problems of familys playing from the same IP) why does a player need an alt(s) he can interact with ? The whole point of an mmo is to interact with others not only yourself

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How so ? (not including the problems of familys playing from the same IP) why does a player need an alt(s) he can interact with ? The whole point of an mmo is to interact with others not only yourself

People will still interact.

 

Trading isn't the only form of interacting.

 

And people will still trade, heaps.

Edited by Korrode

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This is how it should have been all along. And, I wouldnt have lost a Mid-High level Manufacturer,Inventory,Storage and Stats (on Tokie #1) if it had been implimented in the first place...back before I got Banned. I think it's the right move for the "Family Situation" like I have here. Good move,Radu. I like it.

 

Tokie

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Being one of those people who don't have the skill and mouse control to be a fighter, I have opted to play EL in the alternate role. Since I harvest my own materials most of the time, I worry about the resources, as it is, on Green day or fasting day, I generally log off. If the resources are depleted I will log off, if it happens often I will stop logging on. That is just the way it is. If the game becomes no longer fun to play, then people will not play it.

 

Challenges are one thing, and a game should be challenging, but there has to be a balance, the rewards of overcoming the challenge should be equal to the challenge, right now, EL requires a massive amount of materials to make enough items to level. That along with the resource depletion may break the balance even more than it already is. I only ask that this be considered when making changes.

 

Shea

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when I first heard of this I was like "NOWAY", but after reading every post I am more inclined to go with it and test it out. Their are some Pros and Cons and we really won't know if it works unless we give it a shot. I do have a few questions/suggestions as well

 

Would it not be more benifical for the Game if you limited how much a character can harvest one an item in a 24 hr period? EX: 2K Silver, 2K Iron , 2K of each flower ect, or whatever amount you decide on?

 

If we went with multiplay, would this mean the ones on perma ban would be allowed back?

 

IF we went for multi play, would you make it a shared storage? I saw this mentioned earlier and I think it would be benifical not only to the players, but to the servers, maybe make it 500 slots instead of 300 and limit how many of each item is allowed in a slot or in storage all together. This way with the alts they are not taking up say 5 storages , limit them to one thats shared with a limit on quanity per Item. This will cut down on the hoarding. Keeping the farmers from controlling the economy.

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If we went with multiplay, would this mean the ones on perma ban would be allowed back?

Permaban people had issues other than generic illegal multi. So most likely not. There are very few people on permaban, but most people are welcome back to try again to follow the rules anyway.

As to people who were locked for it and had their alts locked, no they won't get the alts back. They broke the rules that were in place at that time. Most likely people who were allowed back under a no-alts restriction will have that restriction lifted, but nothing is in stone yet, it is in discussion phase only.

 

IF we went for multi play, would you make it a shared storage? I saw this mentioned earlier and I think it would be benifical not only to the players, but to the servers, maybe make it 500 slots instead of 300 and limit how many of each item is allowed in a slot or in storage all together. This way with the alts they are not taking up say 5 storages , limit them to one thats shared with a limit on quanity per Item. This will cut down on the hoarding. Keeping the farmers from controlling the economy.

Interesting idea but nothing has been decided yet for multiplaying, or even if it will happen.

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