Some hopefully constructive thoughts and suggestions

[Deodand]

Hello Radu,

 

I've been lurking around in @6 and on the forums the last week or so, reading a lot of stuff being said about the economy, gold sellers, the decline in revenue coming in from the EL Shop, and assorted other business... I think I have some things to add, hopefully some of them might be useful and thought provoking, but I didn't want them buried in the general sea of whining/bitching, so I thought to perhaps post them here instead.

 

To begin with, I'd like to suggest that you please don't take all the aforementioned whining/bitching too seriously. A great many people have adverse reactions to change.. any change.. that inconveniences their personal preferences or habits in any way whatsoever. If one worries overmuch about such things, it just leads to a vicious circle of trying to please people, instead of making rational decisions based on what is best for the game as a whole, and frankly, special interests of any sort are dangerous to pander to. They just tend to make the whole more fucked up, as any examination of the policies of the US government will easily illustrate. Just my 2 cents there.

 

The second thing would be the economy in EL. You mentioned earlier in @6 that you were thinking of massively reworking it along the lines of Runescape's setup. I would strongly advise against this, not that my advice is all that sagacious. It's just from my experience in MMORPGs that EL actually has a rather strong, stable economy compared to most. It's certainly one of the best managed that I've ever encountered. So to that end, I don't think a large re-working needs to be undertaken. Perhaps a few fine-tunings here or there, but nothing large.

 

If I were to suggest somthing related to the EL economy, it might be to attempt to broaden it. One of the problems we seem to be running into is a "secondary currency" scenario, where certain items become a de-facto standard for value, and when those shift in availability, they can start to skew the perceptions of the community. Two such items appear, at least to me, to be EFEs and Rostos. There are probably others, but those two come to mind first just based on what I see.

 

I don't really have any answers beyond what you've already done in regards to the rostos part, but um.. Perhaps if there were multiple ways to make any given item, with perhaps slight cosmetic differences or somesuch, it might help to minimize the effects of the availability of any single ingredient on the economic structure as a whole? It just strikes me that with more options of reasonably equivalent utility, the impact of any given one is greatly reduced, and the whole system becomes more stable. Just a thought.

 

To be honest, it's the decrease in revinue from the Item Shop that concerns me the most. I know that with the world economy going to shit in a handbag, "discretionary spending" is on the downslide, but there's gotta be some ways to drum up business for you, and so I'm going to try my hand at a few suggestions..

 

I play mainly "free" MMORPGS, mainly because I have a really erratic source of RL income, and I can't afford a general "monthly subscription" sort of thing regularly.. But the "free" MMORPGS I've played have either had 1) advertisements, or 2), an item shop, or both.. Now, I generally dislike the ads approach.. they wind up usually being poorly implemented and as a result, the games tend to turn into more advertising than gameplay.. But item shops, those can be cool.

 

From what I've seen so far, One of the keys to Item Shops is variety of stuff. Doesn't necessarily have to be things that turn into "excessive in-game advantage" bits... but a fair chunk of the "hot sellers" and moneymakers that I've run across have been "things to customize your character with". They don't even have to necessarily *do* anything.. just "peacock feathers" so to speak. Lots of people want a distinctive look. One of the reasons LabRat's "custom cape" biz is going rather strongly..

 

But there are limits to what one can do with re-meshing, and it can be complicated.. But, for instance, if there was a way to implement something like a "dye kit".. that would allow say, armor or weapons to be re-tinted.. Not substantially altered, but just say, a blued effect on titanium plate or chain.. or adding a red sheen to an axe, or whatnot.. that kind of thing, and make them available for a couple bucks, I imagine they'd sell decently. I'd buy a few when I could.

 

A second thing along those lines would be variant weapons and armor. Absolutely nothing different from what is in-game already, stats wise, but again, visually distinctive. Say perhaps a scimitar variant of the "emerald claymore", or some similar such bit, available only through the item shop. Might get a few bucks.

 

A third might be a couple new items, like Masks or Gauntlets... Masks as a decorative face-bit that doesn't affect your headgear.. (CoL/CoM usually too useful for someone to give up for deco effect) and Gauntlets would be similar hand-covering that can be worn with shield/sword bits.. could do a "universal gauntlet" thing that'd match whatever armor is being worn. No game effect, just looks.. I'd probably buy both, if reasonably priced.

 

And once again, I'd like to endorse support your idea of a "premium membership". As long as it doesn't unbalance things severely, I think it's groovy and I'd buy one provided I can afford it and buy multiple months to a year at a stretch

 

And, of course, an "unbreakable pickaxe" would be high on my purchase list

 

That's my thoughts for "item shop" expansion.. might help, I dunno. Just for your consideration. Another bit might, if it's possible to do, be to have the item shop accessible within the client... either from an npc or a button... As it is, it kinda takes some looking to find, and its outside the game itself. Just suggesting that the easier it is for a complete idiot to find, the higher the odds that complete idiot might buy something.. lol

 

Another thing I've seen done is sales and special offers... combo packages or whatnot... like "buy 25 rostos and get a free EFE" or "this month save 10% on item X." Also you could probably sell nexus removal stones in the item shop as well.

 

Next I'd like to move on to the issue of a declining playerbase. There are a couple of things I can think of that might help out there...

 

Yeah, placing some ads on a few websites might help.. but I think your strongest asset in terms of marketing is to mobilize the community. Put out a call to the people, so to speak.. Make it visible. I'd suggest something kind of like your "adopt a newbie" program, but just geared towards recruiting new players. If somebody recruits say, 5 new players, and they make it to level 50, then they get some kinda widget and some public recognition. Some people may want to opt out of the recognition bit, but others are motivated by the chance to "see their name in lights".

 

Additionally, encouraging players to write reviews of EL on the various MMORPG rating sites.. even if it's "unofficial".. could likely help drum up more recruits. I'd wager there's a fair chunk of the player community that would like to do things to help, but they don't really know what they should do, or what even is possible *to* do. I think many would pitch in just on the asking.

 

And, on the side of involving more people in the whole "contests" thing.. Would it be possible to have a "donations NPC" ? Just a figure who accepts stuff that gets deposited into a "donations bank" that the contest team can pull things out of? And just to encourage it, perhaps a listing available for "most noob gear donated" or "most gc contributed" or that sort. Again, with an option to opt out of the list, but some people are motivated by that kinda thing.

 

It'd also make it easier on the Mods, so they don't have to run all over the place collecting loot to disperse later.. Just a notion.

 

I know I'm getting into book-length here in this post.. but there's one other idea I'd like to share...

 

You've mentioned that you're getting a bit burnt out on EL.. and would like to try doing some other games and such.. Well...

 

This is maybe a little nutso... but hell, I'll suggest it anyway. How about some mini-games for EL? Yeah, I know, it's a bit silly, but hear me out here..

 

There's a couple of areas where I think this could be a bonus for EL... and I could see 2 kinds of minigame implementation. The first would be just little generic time-wasters while harvesting or mixing or just sitting around. People love time-wasters. Guess the number, tic-tac-toe, rock paper scissors, whack-a-mole.. whatever. Now, I'm not a big listener to all the whining and whatnot.. but one of the things that I can see contributing to the "afk harving" issue, and the reason why so much of a stink is made, is because harvesting, especially in large quantity, or high level items with long delays, can get really boring. I know I tend to play a lot of Freecell or Minesweeper when stocking up for mixing.

 

If I had some kind of pithy little time waster game, I'd be much more inclined to stay in the EL window and not be afk. Now, the new mini-events make it harder to harvest like that, but it increases the boredom level too.. mebbe something could be tied in to the mini-games or something to minimize mini-events? Or not... hell, I'd just love a little thing to fiddle with in-between events or while "mix all" is processing.

 

The second bit for mini-games.. and this is where something could be made a little more involved... We have taverns.. and unlike real life.. nobody really hangs out in them. Well, most taverns have some sort of games... or entertainments... A couple chess and checkerboards in each, maybe a darts thing or a pool table... and perhaps a leaderboard for points or some tournament possibilities... Could add a bit of depth to the game. Charge a few gcs for each, and you even have a modest GC sink. I'm sure some folk would be interested on those "blah" days where they don't feel productive, or just want a change of pace.

 

And, if you wanted a bit more variety, you could even get all creative and invent some truly "EL Unique" sorts of games that blend in with the world and storyline... *Shrugs* Just a notion too.

 

Ok.. I'll stop before this gets any longer. I hope some of this stuff is at least marginally useful.. or at least thought provoking.

 

Regards,

Deodand

[Kaddy]

The second thing would be the economy in EL. You mentioned earlier in @6 that you were thinking of massively reworking it along the lines of Runescape's setup. I would strongly advise against this, not that my advice is all that sagacious. It's just from my experience in MMORPGs that EL actually has a rather strong, stable economy compared to most. It's certainly one of the best managed that I've ever encountered. So to that end, I don't think a large re-working needs to be undertaken. Perhaps a few fine-tunings here or there, but nothing large.

 

 

Please enligthen me;

 

The cost of armors and weapons and etc since 2004 has increased 10 fold and the amount of drops from creatures has increased only 5gcs and you call this strong economy?

 

How long have you been playing?

[Ateh]

medieval 9 ball in EVTR Tavern, im there

[Wizzy]

The second thing would be the economy in EL. You mentioned earlier in @6 that you were thinking of massively reworking it along the lines of Runescape's setup. I would strongly advise against this, not that my advice is all that sagacious. It's just from my experience in MMORPGs that EL actually has a rather strong, stable economy compared to most. It's certainly one of the best managed that I've ever encountered. So to that end, I don't think a large re-working needs to be undertaken. Perhaps a few fine-tunings here or there, but nothing large.

 

 

Please enligthen me;

 

The cost of armors and weapons and etc since 2004 has increased 10 fold and the amount of drops from creatures has increased only 5gcs and you call this strong economy?

 

How long have you been playing?

 

Is it not a little hard to compare EL today to 4 years ago?

 

The days of Don pedro running around in leather and a bp cape with a tit long are over. The game has changed a great deal. Then again, no one is forcing you to buy Ice dragon armor with easily breakable red helm of life and mana, with a tit shield of life drain, and a jagged saber of cooling. And the only reason the cost of armors and weaps have gone up as they have, is there is a larger demand for efe, serp stone, binding stone etc. This is pretty typical in an economy to see prices rise with demand.

[Kaddy]

...

Is it not a little hard to compare EL today to 4 years ago?

 

The days of Don pedro running around in leather and a bp cape with a tit long are over. The game has changed a great deal. Then again, no one is forcing you to buy Ice dragon armor with easily breakable red helm of life and mana, with a tit shield of life drain, and a jagged saber of cooling. And the only reason the cost of armors and weaps have gone up as they have, is there is a larger demand for efe, serp stone, binding stone etc. This is pretty typical in an economy to see prices rise with demand.

 

 

 

But actually there is no incoming gcs for fighters to cover their PK usages, is there?

[Wizzy]

...

Is it not a little hard to compare EL today to 4 years ago?

 

The days of Don pedro running around in leather and a bp cape with a tit long are over. The game has changed a great deal. Then again, no one is forcing you to buy Ice dragon armor with easily breakable red helm of life and mana, with a tit shield of life drain, and a jagged saber of cooling. And the only reason the cost of armors and weaps have gone up as they have, is there is a larger demand for efe, serp stone, binding stone etc. This is pretty typical in an economy to see prices rise with demand.

 

 

 

But actually there is no incoming gcs for fighters to cover their PK usages, is there?

I can always find enough to play with. I dont think I am special

[Aislinn]

Bleh all that reading and I didn't see a new comment, opinion, or suggestion in the bunch.

Please search

[korrode]

Is it not a little hard to compare EL today to 4 years ago?

No, it's not hard, it's simple.

 

Here's how simple the comparison would be:

 

EL 4 years ago:

1 hour competitive PK costs Xgc

Monsters drop Xgc

 

EL Today:

1 hour of competitive PK costs Xgc

Monsters drop Xgc

 

 

Extremely easy to compare.

 

The days of Don pedro running around in leather and a bp cape with a tit long are over. The game has changed a great deal.

Yes it's changed a great deal in many ways, but not in the way of monster gc drops.

All we're asking is that we get changes in area A. that reflect the changes in area B.

 

It's just not so hard to understand why it's a good, logical thing to do.

 

 

EDIT:

I can always find enough to play with. I dont think I am special

Thanks for your input, mage.

 

When they make a Harm spell that goes straight through MI but costs 4 EDE's to cast, and some other mages keep killing you with it, and the only way you could retaliate would be to spend heaps of EDE's everytime u fight in PK, come talk to us then.

 

 

@Aisy

It's ok we'll deal with this thread for you

Edited April 12, 2009 by Korrode

[Wizzy]

Is it not a little hard to compare EL today to 4 years ago?

No, it's not hard, it's simple.

 

Here's how simple the comparison would be:

 

EL 4 years ago:

1 hour competitive PK costs Xgc

Monsters drop Xgc

 

EL Today:

1 hour of competitive PK costs Xgc

Monsters drop Xgc

 

 

Extremely easy to compare.

 

The days of Don pedro running around in leather and a bp cape with a tit long are over. The game has changed a great deal.

Yes it's changed a great deal in many ways, but not in the way of monster gc drops.

All we're asking is that we get changes in area A. that reflect the changes in area B.

 

It's just not so hard to understand why it's a good, logical thing to do.

 

 

EDIT:

I can always find enough to play with. I dont think I am special

Thanks for your input, mage.

 

When they make a Harm spell that goes straight through MI but costs 4 EDE's to cast, and some other mages keep killing you with it, and the only way you could retaliate would be to spend heaps of EDE's everytime u fight in PK, come talk to us then.

 

 

@Aisy

It's ok we'll deal with this thread for you

 

I would be the first to enjoy seeing a new offensive spell or two. And I would agree some new powerfull spells could cost ede, ele, and maybe ehe and eAe if they ever enter game. I would support this and use this.

 

I find it hard to follow your logic here when we are told the below

 

1) There are too many gc's in game

2) afk harvestor farmer alts are a problem with outside gc's >$ sales

3) True sight pots are too easy to make with just flowers, so we will make people kill rabbits for them, shifting some of the gc's to new players and get them away from just selling flowers to npc

4)no more 3X lupin bush

5) AP pots for those ebul rich people that can afford loads of arrows, then can buy perment boost pots from npc

 

Given the above statements which we are told are problems by the man with all the logs and information, is it logical to add more gc's to the game directly in the hands of the top overall, top a/d people?

[korrode]

I love how you make points about recent changes to other areas of the game, but you nor anyone else will ever rebuttal the simple point that giving fighters more gc will make them burn more resources, and make most every PK oriented fighter in the game PK more often... to which there is no downside for anyone.

 

EDIT:

Even consider fighters who dont PK and only 'competitively' fight in invasions. Look at my recent poll in gen. chat, how many people voted that they'd participate more if rosto price was lower? At least some portion of those people would have been fighters (probably most, considering they are most likely to lose a rosto)... give them more gc, they'll be able to buy more rostos and other resources for invasions.

 

No one can argue with this because it's as simple as 1+1=2.

Edited April 12, 2009 by Korrode

[Ambrosius]

Cost of PK back then:

Ti chain: 7k

serp: 6-7k

leather boots and pants: 100 gc

mirror cape: 5k

steel shield: 450 gc

moon med: 100 gc

iron helm, few srs, hes, rings

 

total: ~22.000 gc

 

PK now (minimum cost)

Ti full set (low end gear): 140k

COL: 66k

ti Shield: 25k

OS: 27k

Mirror cape: 7k

Cape of unbreakable (2x) 13k

Moon med: 100gc

EMPs (10): 3,5k

ACC/EVA pots: 1K

summ stones (10): 1k

(Rostogol: 25k)

rings, srs, hes, etc

 

total: ~300.000 gc

 

With virtually no increase in gc drops.

 

Yes, Yeti was implemented, but can only be used by the very top a/d which is not the majority of the PKers.

Edited April 12, 2009 by Ambrosius

[boognish]

Another bit might, if it's possible to do, be to have the item shop accessible within the client... either from an npc or a button... As it is, it kinda takes some looking to find, and its outside the game itself.

 

This is a good idea.

[Ateh]

have an NCP give out free armor and weapons , free Diss Rings, Free HE , free everything for PKers

 

PKers should not be expected to earn thier GC like everyone else, for fucks sake Radu what are you trying to make them do ? Play the damn game ?

 

Its disgusting and needs changing right away before they have to stop training for 2 hours to make thier own HE , oh wait hang on ! they cant make thier own HE because they dont have inorganic nexus 2 to mine silver , and they have HOS perk to so harvesting thier own st00f is pretty much out of the question

 

Jeez will you just make a/d the only skill in the game where fucking up your characters ability to supply itself is rewarded with greater amounts of GC from the only skill they have forced themselves into , its really not hard to see the logic here you know !!

[HeLLRaiZeR]

Cost of PK back then:

Ti chain: 7k

serp: 6-7k

leather boots and pants: 100 gc

mirror cape: 5k

steel shield: 450 gc

moon med: 100 gc

iron helm, few srs, hes, rings

 

total: ~22.000 gc

 

PK now (minimum cost)

Ti full set (low end gear): 140k

COL: 66k

ti Shield: 25k

OS: 27k

Mirror cape: 7k

Cape of unbreakable (2x) 13k

Moon med: 100gc

EMPs (10): 3,5k

ACC/EVA pots: 1K

summ stones (10): 1k

(Rostogol: 25k)

rings, srs, hes, etc

 

total: ~300.000 gc

 

With virtually no increase in gc drops.

 

Yes, Yeti was implemented, but can only be used by the very top a/d which is not the majority of the PKers.

 

You stupid for real?

 

Back in the good old days, people didn't use rostogol stones. With the risk of losing what they wore, they didnt bring expensive stuff. Now the loss is nothing except the occasional breakages and brod. Only loss is the rostogolstone. In the good old days a skilled pker could actually earn money from his kills, now all is a huge loss.

 

It's really sad how Korrode and all you other pkers are bitching about increased drops, perhaps you should petition for the removal of rostogolstones alltogether? That's the only way to solve the increased usage of imba-armor in PK.

 

The prices for the old items has stayed basically the same, nobody is forcing people to use expensive stuff.

Edited April 23, 2009 by HeLLRaiZeR

[Norm]

Jeezus, I still don't get why some many mixers are bitching. I buy thousands of he and sr's (and ae's, etc.) at a time, from guess who.......

 

You want a profit on what you make, well just who the hell is going to pay for your profit? Like it or not, fighters are the top of the trickle effect of gc in this game.

 

IMHO, harving for gc is great for noobs starting the game, but it should not be the best way to make gc, as it requires little actual skill or knowledge of the game.

[Ateh]

Jeezus, I still don't get why some many mixers are bitching. I buy thousands of he and sr's (and ae's, etc.) at a time, from guess who.......

 

if you consider me a mixer and think im bitching at you then i'll explain why :

I dont consider the problem to be with the game itself , I see the problem being the way the players want to play the game.

 

This game can provide everything you need to supply yourself in any skill you wish to pursue, just because a player has purposely made it so they cannot produce thier own items why should the game be changed to adapt to the way they have restricted themselves ??

 

And also what the hell is so demeaning about harvesting for yourself ? Nothing wrong with it at all, its players attitudes towards the game that is the problem, not the game itself.

 

I know why you dont want to harvest or spend time doing the shitty skill of mixing its because you want to spend 24 hours a day fighting but yet again that is not the fault of the game itself its players attitudes that are the problem, because you dont want to tear yourself away from fighting you want to increase the GC drops for yourself so you dont have to do anything else ......

 

I dont really care if you think im bitching for bitchings sake , and lets face it if enough ''high lvl fighters'' come on the forums and bitch themselves to sleep every night then the changes will get implemented anyway so go ahead keep posting in every other fking thread about how poor you are in game and eventually you will get what you want , especially if a certain bullshit artist gets involved as per

[Rehdon]

This game can provide everything you need to supply yourself in any skill you wish to pursue, just because a player has purposely made it so they cannot produce thier own items why should the game be changed to adapt to the way they have restricted themselves ??

 

And also what the hell is so demeaning about harvesting for yourself ? Nothing wrong with it at all, its players attitudes towards the game that is the problem, not the game itself.

 

I just want to thank you for opening my eyes with your impeccable logic: sure, it's all these players' fault, they choose to play the fighter role and what do they ask for? just that, being able to self sustain with monster drops while they develop their character as they have chosen to!!! Oh, the arrogance, the arrogance, and the constant whining about such an unreasonable demand, they really are shameless. Who do they think they are? As if they were an important part of the economy, buying lots of stuff produced by frustrated mixers, who can't advance in experience as fast as them.

 

You know, I just realized that there's sort of an unbalance in the game: mixers should advance as fast as fighters, why should they be second class citizens in EL? So here's my suggestion: tie production of manu/crafting/engineering items to A/D level, let's say you can't produce a steel shield if you aren't at least 40/40 in A/D, a crown of life if you aren't 60/60 and so on. See, now that would a perfect world, everyone is either a fighter/harvester/mixer or a mixer/fighter/harvester not by his own choice but because the game forces you to do that. Mandatory multiclass ftw!!!

 

And by the way, I'm an all-rounder who sort of sees both sides of the coin, before you could mistake me for one of those horribly whining pkers ...

 

Rehdon

[revi]

This game can provide everything you need to supply yourself in any skill you wish to pursue, just because a player has purposely made it so they cannot produce thier own items why should the game be changed to adapt to the way they have restricted themselves ??

 

And also what the hell is so demeaning about harvesting for yourself ? Nothing wrong with it at all, its players attitudes towards the game that is the problem, not the game itself.

 

I just want to thank you for opening my eyes with your impeccable logic: sure, it's all these players' fault, they choose to play the fighter role and what do they ask for? just that, being able to self sustain with monster drops while they develop their character as they have chosen to!!! Oh, the arrogance, the arrogance, and the constant whining about such an unreasonable demand, they really are shameless. Who do they think they are? As if they were an important part of the economy, buying lots of stuff produced by frustrated mixers, who can't advance in experience as fast as them.

 

[snipped]

 

Rehdon

 

Nice if a fighter can support himself with just fighting...

Why the H*** do you deny the same right to a mixer then (what is what you are doing when you refuse to

pay enough to cover ingredients+food)? I'm not even talking about costs of books needed to make the items

you like so much (check the ings and books for diss rings once, if you can spare the 5 min from fighting)

 

Fighters should be allowed to do what they like best 24h/24 and the mixers have to see how they manage?

 

And if someone remarks that some fighters have chosen to be unable to harv/mix, he gets nailed to the post....

 

I'll stop before I really speak my mind (don't want to get a forum ban)

 

Just to clarify, I don't mind how a player develops his character, but I do feel he should accept the consequences

in the game AS IS and not require the game to be adapted to his likes.

 

EDIT: this is not against Rehdon or any player in particular, just the generalised whining about price increases

for fighters.

Edited April 24, 2009 by revi

[Rehdon]

Nice if a fighter can support himself with just fighting...

Why the H*** do you deny the same right to a mixer then (what is what you are doing when you refuse to

pay enough to cover ingredients+food)?

 

Oh really? And pray tell, where did I exactly state that? I am an all-rounder, did you get to that part? I fight and I mix to sell stuff to fighters. I read lots of books, have leveled in crafting, manu and potion, and have an awful quantity of PPs in nexuses.

 

But I'll try to answer your questions anyway. You see, you're kind of mixing apple and oranges here, because A) the mixers' problems (= prices below the cost of ingredients) are due the the game economy, while B ) the fighters' problems (= no self-sustainability through training drops) are due to the game mechanics. This means that B could be solved quite simply by increasing the monster drops (which has already been done in part wrt to higher level monsters), while A is much harder to solve in a free market economy: as long as there will be sellers that undercut the "fair" price, people will buy from them, and I can't really fault them; note that I would very much like see a reasonable profitability in manufacturing, would be good reason to develop it some more.

 

So far manuers' strikes and tentative cartels have proved to be ineffective, perhaps the only way would be to have a little less free economy with NPCs buying at a minimum price; that also would be tricky to handle, because the price should be adjusted from time to time to keep with basic ingredients variation in price.

 

This stuff is pretty complex (for a game) and laying blame to "whining pkers" really seems short-sighted to me, to say the least. Besides, I fail seeing how having fighters getting what they want (= more gcs in monster drops) would be bad for mixers: wouldn't that mean more money to spend on hes, srs, armors and weapons? Unless it's just a case of childish sour grapes.

 

I'll stop before I really speak my mind (don't want to get a forum ban)

 

Seeing how you're trying to put words in other people's mouth, I'd say that's a wise choice.

 

EDIT: this is not against Rehdon or any player in particular, just the generalised whining about price increases

for fighters.

 

Then don't quote me to make your point.

 

Rehdon

[korrode]

You stupid for real?

 

Back in the good old days, people didn't use rostogol stones. With the risk of losing what they wore, they didnt bring expensive stuff. Now the loss is nothing except the occasional breakages and brod. Only loss is the rostogolstone. In the good old days a skilled pker could actually earn money from his kills, now all is a huge loss.

 

It's really sad how Korrode and all you other pkers are bitching about increased drops, perhaps you should petition for the removal of rostogolstones alltogether? That's the only way to solve the increased usage of imba-armor in PK.

 

The prices for the old items has stayed basically the same, nobody is forcing people to use expensive stuff.

You stupid for real?

 

Back in the good old days the BEST one could bring to PK didn't cost that much.

 

Removing rostos... lmfao, your lack of foresight is extreme.

If you remove rostos the only people who will use pr0 gear will be the very top level people, as no one else will be able to afford the risk.

If only the top level guys use it, they'll be basically unkillable. If PK becomes 0-chance of success unless you've spent $1k+ or trained years to top 20, almost no one will PK... so PK dies.

 

As for using cheaper armor, we're competiive PK'ers, we dont think it's a laugh to goto PK and be slapped to the underworld in 5 seconds by someone 15 a/d under us, which is exactly what happens if we dont use top level equipment. We are forced to use that expensive equipement if we want to remain competitive.

 

The most perfect example of all that i'm saying is Tahraji Desert.

Look how dead it is... and TD is even no cooldown, so waaaay harder to die there.

You propose we turn all of EL PK into something even deader than TD is.

 

yeah, right, gg.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Korrode

[DaKiSS]

Cost of PK back then:

Ti chain: 7k

serp: 6-7k

leather boots and pants: 100 gc

mirror cape: 5k

steel shield: 450 gc

moon med: 100 gc

iron helm, few srs, hes, rings

 

total: ~22.000 gc

 

PK now (minimum cost)

Ti full set (low end gear): 140k

COL: 66k

ti Shield: 25k

OS: 27k

Mirror cape: 7k

Cape of unbreakable (2x) 13k

Moon med: 100gc

EMPs (10): 3,5k

ACC/EVA pots: 1K

summ stones (10): 1k

(Rostogol: 25k)

rings, srs, hes, etc

 

total: ~300.000 gc

 

With virtually no increase in gc drops.

 

Yes, Yeti was implemented, but can only be used by the very top a/d which is not the majority of the PKers.

 

At the very beginning armors didnt even break, so your 22k armor was lasting "for ever"

Now calculate price of dragon armor, and it's break rate, you really gotta be rich to have good pk stuff on long term

Edited April 24, 2009 by DaKiSS

[HeLLRaiZeR]

Korrode, risk vs reward.

 

You bring expensive stuff, you will lose it if you die. Currently, the pr0 players are still insanely much stronger than the mediumplayers. A person that doesnt have the time or effort to train 8 hours a day might just give up on pking.

 

The price has almost been the same for that stuff.. Only difference is that back then EFE was 2-3k, which is marketbased and not inflation.

 

Most other games is either full drop or no drop at all. Removing rostogolstones really wouldnt be that bad, except for Entropy.. Still, apparently he doesnt make that much money currently, a change in his store might be inevitable.

 

If the ebul pro players uses haxxorarmor in KF, gang them? If they die, they will lose tenfold of what you lose by wearing old school armor.

[revi]

Then don't quote me to make your point.

ok, I won't quote

 

Seriously,my apologies to Rehdon for misquoting him through misunderstanding his post,

 

I think we are mixing up two kinds of 'fighters' here: PK-ers, and a/d trainers. I have to agree with the person who

said that the PK-ers with HoS perk etc. and only human nexus shouldn't complain about not earning enough, they made a choice

and will have to live with it (or reset...).

And I see no reason why a/d training should easily pay for top-level PK gear, where a mixer has difficulties getting a price high enough

to cover ingredients. The more so, since PK _as_a_whole_ only destroys equipment/resources, so it is and always will be a gc sink.

 

I can see why prices are lower than cost, so (as a mixer) I do a lot of harvesting, thereby getting net gc from my mixing. If the mixers

reasoned the same way as PKers (i.e. 'We should be able to only mix and live of it without all that annoying harvesting'), see how much

could be produced (HE, ME, diss and tele rings, medallions...)

(as an example, I'd guess I spend at least 2-3h harving for every h a/d and mixing, and that gives me enough profit to use Ti plate when

I feel like it for training, but not enough to burn 1 or 2 rostos every invasion)

 

Again, this is against PK-ers that feel they should not have to work for their hobby, through long monster killing, or harving and mixing

(and I don't mind the high experience rates in a/d training, it requires attention, carries risks, and I profit from it myself...)

 

And NO I don't think a/d training should (easily) pay for high level PK gear as long as mixing doesn't allow the same (again, those that cannot harvest

_chose_ that character build, those negative perks are called _negative_ for a reason...)

[Ateh]

But I'll try to answer your questions anyway. You see, you're kind of mixing apple and oranges here, because A) the mixers' problems (= prices below the cost of ingredients) are due the the game economy, while B ) the fighters' problems (= no self-sustainability through training drops) are due to the game mechanics.

 

the game mechanics ? this is where we disagree because does the game mechanically make someone walk to the wraith and take HOS perk ? no it doesnt

 

people say they need extra PP to ''effectively'' train on things like chims and yetis and cockatrice but thats not the game mechanics either thats players attitudes towards what the game provides , the same as expecting to be able to do nothing else but train a/d to make all the GC they need simply because they have restricted other avenues and thats of thier own doing ! its players attitudes towards spending 8 hours a day solid training and expecting to be able to sustain that level of work without ever having to do anything else , holy shit can you imagine how fast people would rise in a/d if all they had to do was fight constantly ?

 

the mechanics of the game allow you to sustain yourself if you want to , allow you to work alone or in a group to achieve a desired result

 

I dont believe the game should be changed to suit the needs of a group of players who have purposefuly restricted thier own ability to make an in game income

 

And enough allready about the ''only some of us can train on Yeti'' crap , alot of us bitching mixers are unable to make black dragon armor but do you see us bitching about it on the forums every other topic ?

 

but as I said to everyone, not just rehdon or whoever, just keep posting about it on lots of other threads and eventually you will get your way because after all you are fighters and at the top of EL food chain and everyone should bow to your every wish because youve spent 32k hours of your life being a/d geek

[chr0nik]

Whatever happened to the old aTeh?

 

"hey guess what, its just pixels on a screen so who cares? perhaps if something important really happened in life you wouldnt give two shits about a pretend bag with pretend gold coins and pretend bones in it ?

 

my point is really easy to understand, and it is this : it doesnt matter, it really doesnt make two shits of difference in anyones life"

 

That's from an old post of mine in Disputes to which you responded.

 

Regarding the original intent of this thread, I also think the idea of making the EL Shop more visible is reasonable - either accessible via a link or something in the client or more obvious on the EL site.