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Mini Harv Events

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Because EL is not about playing while being afk.

In fact, you tell me: What is right about AFK harvesting? Why not just put the stuff in the storage automatically?

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In fact, you tell me: What is right about AFK harvesting? Why not just put the stuff in the storage automatically?

I'll take a (constructive) stab at that question (lacking brevity as usual).

 

The purpose of EL (and most any game) is to have fun. For some there's also the feeling of accomplishment in completing tasks or being better than others at some skill. But for this to work it must also be a challenge. If everyone could be a/d 120 and maxed attributes in a week there would be no challenge, and no fun. But making it too hard also removes the fun. You also don't want things to get monotonous; there must be variety and interesting things going on.

 

So it really boils down to a question of balance. Make the game hard, but not to hard. Make it a challenge without being boring or monotonous. Of course that balance is a subjective opinion.

 

Training on critters can get boring. Drops make it interesting and the risk of death makes in challenging.

 

Mixing large amounts of stuff to level can get boring. Gathering ingredients and selling finished goods makes it interesting. Dealing with food cooldown (FPs, bones, toads) adds variation and risk. The well received mix-all button removes some of the monotony.

 

As others have said, bulk harvesting is the bases for most every other skill. It can get boring. Normal events (good and bad) bring variation and some excitement (when you get something rare). The strategy (mix on sight, take to storage, how many tools to bring with breakage, will you need HEs, etc, etc) add strategy, interest and challenge. The also well received removal of one-click-per-harvest removed a huge amount of monotony. But the suggested harvest-to-storage would make it to easy, destroying the balance.

 

I feel that harvesting was well balanced before. There was challenge, variation, interest, and strategy. Even astrology played in making some days better for bulk harvesting (low events) and others better for finding something rare (high events) or for doing another skill.

 

I believe the mini-events have thrown off the previous optimal balance by removing some of the fun and ease of harvesting without an adequate benefit to compensate (I don't believe a few extra gc or exp balances the down-side).

 

Perhaps the balance would be restored if the up-side was better: higher experience, more gc, or even "you harvested 20 <items>. You stopped harvesting." type mini-events.

 

What is right about (limited due to existing normal events) AFK harvesting? It's part of what creates the right balance in harvesting to support the overall fun nature of EL.

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Because EL is not about playing while being afk.

No but to sit and look at your char harvesting is as interesting as it is to sit and look at your broken TV and try to turn it on again and again.

We had already the auto invasions - made us stay around new hour, Lenny - made me stay c1 most of the time as I like to harvest outdoor and without armor/weapon, god spots have been moved.

 

I think the problem is not afk harving but mapwalking but, it would be hard to change that.

 

Why not make harvesting with neg food impossible ?

And make harvesting slower ?

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Why not make harvesting with neg food impossible ?

And make harvesting slower ?

 

How is it different than what you have now?

 

So it really boils down to a question of balance. Make the game hard, but not to hard. Make it a challenge without being boring or monotonous. Of course that balance is a subjective opinion.

 

So how is it harvesting different than manufacturing? Why is non afk manufacturing OK, but non AFK harvesting is not OK?

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So how is it harvesting different than manufacturing? Why is non afk manufacturing OK, but non AFK harvesting is not OK?

This is a harder question to answer because it's even more subjective.

 

I think a higher degree of being able to harvest afk is acceptable because it such a base skill, generally required for all the other skills. Harvesting leads to alchemy and potions, which lead to manufacturing, crafting, engineering, a/d training, etc.

 

Manufacturing could be more or less "afk" (if I can use that) than it is now. Mix-all allows you to mix until an event or empty inventory. It was less afk when you had to click for each mix. It could be more afk if it permitted auto-eating when you ran out of food. I think the current balance is good.

 

Harvesting could be less afk with one-click-per-harvest or mini-events. It could be more afk with less events or if events didn't stop you. I think the current (before the update) balance was good and that mini-events threw it out of balance (my subjective opinion).

 

But (as you ask) why was the previous balance right for harvesting (and manufacturing)? Because of harvesting's place in the skills tree and the nature of the game which requires massive amounts of harvesting to support the skills build on it. I believe that justifies a higher level of automatic harvesting (afk) than would be permitted by (for example) manufacturing.

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But (as you ask) why was the previous balance right for harvesting (and manufacturing)? Because of harvesting's place in the skills tree and the nature of the game which requires massive amounts of harvesting to support the skills build on it. I believe that justifies a higher level of automatic harvesting (afk) than would be permitted by (for example) manufacturing.

 

So because the harvesting is the 'engine' of the economy, don't you think that it is even more important to not have it totally AFK? And why should only the harvesters provide raw goods to the economy? Why not the fighters provide some raw goods as well, such as buying raw stuff from the NPC with their gold drops? The fighters do MUCH more work than the harvesters, and there is considerably more risk involved. They actually have to be there every second of it (except for PvPing), and they don't complain.

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So how is it harvesting different than manufacturing? Why is non afk manufacturing OK, but non AFK harvesting is not OK?

 

Because you always need to harvest before you even can think of manufacturing, potioning, crafting and alching.

Because you need to harvest and alch/pot before you can think of going fighting.

 

Sure you can buy the ings, but even for gettig the money to buy ings you need to harv. It's just the base of the game and with needing crazy amounts of ings it's a deep cut which was made.

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The fighters do MUCH more work than the harvesters, and there is considerably more risk involved. They actually have to be there every second of it (except for PvPing), and they don't complain.

I've done a lot of afk killing yetis a year ago.

Just found a single spawn, kill, pick up, go and make coffee.

When I came back did next spawn.

And because it was a very little used spawn - people went for the double - could I stay there for hours, doing a lot of RL things.

And it gave much more exp and gc.

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I've done a lot of afk killing yetis a year ago.

Just found a single spawn, kill, pick up, go and make coffee.

When I came back did next spawn.

And because it was a very little used spawn - people went for the double - could I stay there for hours, doing a lot of RL things.

And it gave much more exp and gc.

 

So you mean you macroed? ^.^

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I've done a lot of afk killing yetis a year ago.

Just found a single spawn, kill, pick up, go and make coffee.

When I came back did next spawn.

And because it was a very little used spawn - people went for the double - could I stay there for hours, doing a lot of RL things.

And it gave much more exp and gc.

 

So you mean you macroed? ^.^

How can that be macro,I just sit 5 sec at the computer kill, pick up.

And why sit and wait for the next to spawn, I knew it would spawn there some min later, so I might as well make some coffee.

It's not that I were doing anything afk - only standing at the spawn.

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Well, you said you were AFK killing them.

If you weren't AFK while killing yetis, it is not called killing them AFK, no?

No, 5 sec playing/killing/picking up - 2-3 min afk waiting for the next, like harving used to be - start harvest - afk 2-3 min, check if there has been an event - start harvesting if it's the case :D

 

And if people can't harvest with neg food level is it limited how long time they can harvest afk, so make harvisting slower would help too.

Edited by Zamirah

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So I haven't tried the mini events thingy while playing, PK Server FTW! :)

 

Eternal Lands has always been a slow game to level if you want to do it by using the skills yourself, most people just ended up harvesting blue lupines in Portland and buying everything as cheap as they come (see manufacturing strike post), or investing $$$ to get items and level at full throttle just to show on the top of the charts (is this having fun in a game :D !!!)

 

I used to play only 1 character on main server for most of the time I played there and yes it could be boring, but that's what's guilds are for. I did try others games, MMO's and others, but ended up in EL because of it's complex system where you can use all skills and when I got too tired of a couple things on main I found the PK server.

 

For those who multi play, even on main server, most of the time they will probably be training on mobs and mixing and/or harvesting with other characters. I do a lot of mob killing while doing Potion and harvest, 3 characters that keep me busy all the time. If I can do it, everyone can if they want to, this keeps you paying attention to all things, avoiding boredom, even if you aren't chatting.

 

As I see it, mini events

will "force" people to harvest below their harvest level, no more dung harvest with level 60 harvest,

will "force" more people to harvest a little of useful raw ingreds, instead of blue lupines, to mix themselves or to give to others to mix, to avoid over priced items or the NPC prices

can draw some people to buy items from the NPC's

Will definitely slow down the mixing skills, if you harvest all you mix

Will prevent people from buying everything with blue lupines/titanium/etc gold, I support this one

 

I would have to say that the major problem is that some people don't play this game for fun, they play it to have their characters listed on the top of the charts, mixing k's of items without any other purpose than leveling.

 

Someone posted something like "if this existed when I started playing I wouldn't mind" a couple days ago.

If your government changes, creates a new law after you are born do you have follow it or do you say the same to the authorities?

 

 

I also believe that the rate of the events would have been more considered so far if more people focused on the frequency and not on the fact that they are in the game. Just another change in EL to adjust to :D

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No, 5 sec playing/killing/picking up - 2-3 min afk waiting for the next, like harving used to be - start harvest - afk 2-3 min, check if there has been an event - start harvesting if it's the case :D

 

And if people can't harvest with neg food level is it limited how long time they can harvest afk, so make harvisting slower would help too.

 

Yes, but in those 2-3 AFK minutes you didn't make money, yes? That's the idea. If you AFK, you should not make money or exp.

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No, 5 sec playing/killing/picking up - 2-3 min afk waiting for the next, like harving used to be - start harvest - afk 2-3 min, check if there has been an event - start harvesting if it's the case :D

 

And if people can't harvest with neg food level is it limited how long time they can harvest afk, so make harvisting slower would help too.

 

Yes, but in those 2-3 AFK minutes you didn't make money, yes? That's the idea. If you AFK, you should not make money or exp.

If I pick a bag up do I get gc and often something nice too, when I start harvest do I not get anything.

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Also, do you do any other skills in El while you surf the web? If not, why do you think you should be able to harvest?

Cause the amount of resources needed dictate it. But feel free to harvest me ingredients for 100 refined vegetal mixtures to get an idea. Or double the yield of CF, with NPC buying CF from me at 65, so I can buy flowers from the flower shop.

 

But (as you ask) why was the previous balance right for harvesting (and manufacturing)? Because of harvesting's place in the skills tree and the nature of the game which requires massive amounts of harvesting to support the skills build on it. I believe that justifies a higher level of automatic harvesting (afk) than would be permitted by (for example) manufacturing.

 

So because the harvesting is the 'engine' of the economy, don't you think that it is even more important to not have it totally AFK? And why should only the harvesters provide raw goods to the economy? Why not the fighters provide some raw goods as well, such as buying raw stuff from the NPC with their gold drops? The fighters do MUCH more work than the harvesters, and there is considerably more risk involved. They actually have to be there every second of it (except for PvPing), and they don't complain.

It's funny you put people in classes in a classless game. Any ideas how allrounders would do this or are you expecting people to make classes now? But to answer it, I'm perfectly capable of mixing FE/WE afk at Joules day. If I didn't have MM, I'd also be capable of training afk on fluffies with a quarterstaff in leather, occasionally restoring (mr00wka did this with similar stats to mine when he still played). No, it won't be fast exp, but then again harvesting is 0 exp for most of the hour.

Also, I know more fighters that ask me to buy stuff for them, then vice versa. It's easy to make fighters complain though. Just replace gold coin drops with harvestables.

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Um... harv price goes up = item prices go up = noone wins who's actually playing.

 

Who wins from harv prices going up? The gold farming scumbags who are the real cause of this in the first place. (Don't fool yourself into thinking this has anything to do with afk harvers in general, they've been around for years, and this didn't suddenly become an issue until it was determined gold farmers were killing shop sales.)

 

Don't support the gold farmer scumbags who did this to you, don't fall for a price hike over this.

 

wouldnt need to support them by buying gc if the skill we practice (fighting) provides us with the gc we need. and with that i mean we should get exp+gc, right now fighters dont want to sacrifice one for the other so they buy gc to get both.

 

In the long term, this would only help the game:

1. Basic ingredients prices would go up, and so all the items prices would go up as well, so manufacturers would be able to make a profit in this game (I have no idea how the economy in this game got messed up so badly, so the more work you put in, the less profit you get).

It is in fact the "new economy" that enabled the gold coin farmers in the first place. Basic ingredient prices did go up and so did the quantity needed of them, but at the top of the production chain (the fighters who use the items) the income has been lowered and lowered, creating a need to buy gold coins.

 

ding ding ding ding, absolutely right :D

 

im busy in RL these days so havent logged in and seen how the new events work but looking at some peoples logs im not looking forward to it

 

seems a very drastic solution to GC farming tbh , theres alot of posts in this thread with the word ''annoying'' in them - thats not a good feeling for new players or old ones

 

but hopefully this will just be temporary until a better solution to GC farming can be found

 

#edit I know you dont like bitching on forums Radu but you must have seen this one coming

 

there is a better solution, decrease the income of Gc by selling to NPC and increase Gc monsters drop.

the Gc that enters the game would be somewhat the same, but fighters will have more to spend then making Gc buying less needed, and the Gc fighters use end up either at Mixers or leave the game by NPCs so that mixers would still have the same income, they only need to interact with players more (which is what an MMORPG is about)

 

win-win situation imo, no mini events, fighters less Gc worries, way less inflation caused by goldfarmers and a happy playerbase

 

Yeti and up drops could stay the same though

Edited by Sqwurl

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I dont think that is a silly idea I have seen people sit at same harvest spot for days in hopes of getting a stone. Also seen many sit , harvest and walk to nearby bot and sell. If you need the ing you are harvesting then you will stay to get it.

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Due to the 120 harvest cap per hour I have had a hard time considering it as a skill, because the experience in the long term is based contrary to other skills on how long you have been doing it instead of how much you actually do it.

 

I just wonder if there would be a way to tweak the skill so that the cap was removed? It would benefit the real harvesters and give some value other than gc/resources from active playing like the other skills while eliminating the afk bit.

 

 

Unlike some regular contributors to the suggestion forum, I have no problems making gc and experience from a/d training and as it stands it feels like the value gained from actively doing a skill is already stacked towards a/d training by a large amount. I fear that players like me would just shift more effort to monster training for their gc needs and just use that to e.g. level in schools and passing those who actually work hard for their skill.

 

Edit: I meant that the mini events would be kept but the exp cap adjusted thus giving people an incentive to harvest while still removing afk harvesting. Anyway it's just a suggestion among others and sorry for my confusing english :S

Edited by teta1

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Ok well so far I have seen a lot of suggestions that "might" get considered for the challenge I proposed but in fact they all fail to meet the standards laid down. No one wins by simple fact that theyre all suggestions that are geared towards the mini events themselves and NONE of them have encompassed a way to increase/improve the EL shop sales as WELL as find a way to make the new events livable for those who disliked them so far AND cut down the resource income/stock levels of gc farming alts.

 

Some of you came close though, but missing one of the end results or the other isnt enough. Try harder guys n gals, you're nearly there.

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I've been an allrounder for most of the time I've been playing the game (over 2 years now), even levelling cra to 75, which most consider useless or insane or whatever. For those accomplishments, I needed loads of ingreds and semi-afk harving (say come back to the screen each minute) made this possible. With the events added, I'm not really encouraged to do anything else than serp trolls or fluf or feros to pay for the gem sanders, vials and other stuff. Making harvesting harder is not only making it a 'real' skill (whatever that may be), it's making the other mixing skills impossible to train. So for now on, I'll simply quit the mixing skills after I mixed my sto empty and only harv when I'm bored with the gazillion critters. No more C2 rings at reasonable prices, no more mixing fun, no more logging on for most of the day.

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No skill should be 100% afk possible, imo that defeats the whole point of an MMO. But that being said after reading Soldus's event list I agree that maybe the chance of events shoud be reduced, its a fine balance between stopping 100% afk harving and making the game unplayable.

 

So maybe instead of having "random" mini events could you have guaranteed mini events ?

 

Programming wise could these be based on emu ? ie: you have 900 emu, mini events happen when you have filled 225 emu, at 450 emu and at 675 emu

 

or

 

make the events level related but still random

 

Harv 1-30: normal chance for event to happen

Harv 31-60: Half the chance

Harv 61+ a quarter of the chance

 

 

This way it would hit "harv alts" more than the genuine players, since genuine players will more than likely have a higher harv level

And would stop 100% afk harving but without being to intrusive at higher levels.

Edited by conavar

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And we have a timer to tell us when it's ready, we need something to say PLING here when we get an event.

 

Actually it is very possible to have EL play a sound when you stop harvesting - I am not going to tell everyone how to do it because 1. I needed help setting it up in the first place and don't want it to seem like it was all my idea, and 2. If people don't do it right and break it I have to spend 4 hours in pm fixing it and I want to focus on keeping harvesting :P

 

I was not a fan of the events when they first came in, though I TOTALLY understood the reason and need for them, however I honestly think its just a case of learning to adjust your play style - I am learning to do that and its not so bad anymore.

 

We all need to learn to live with things for a while - try them - test different strategies to make them work - and then form our opinion. At least then we can say that we honestly tried. An example to illustrate this - Attribute caps....I am not going to dig up the "OMG - you killed the game!" threads - of the "OMG, I quit!" Drama's - we adapted - we lived with it - we adjusted! This will be the same things a few months down the line.

 

While I know there are bugs to be worked out - and I believe there are a few adjustements to be made, both by us to live with it, and by Radu to make it work smoothly - I actually have faith that Radu is monitoring this and will adjust as needed.

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