mciscass Report post Posted April 3, 2009 Shaturas exploited a bug (the one recently reported) to remove 29 k gc from the bot WinterStar. It is a small amount, but should be addressed. We encourage all bot owners to ban this player from using your bots. I will try to explain this to players who think exploiting a bot bug is clever or acceptable. Rule #5: Do not cheat “Cheating in the game means… exploiting bugs…” This does not say exploiting bugs is OK if it is a bot bug, it says exploiting bugs is not allowed. Radu relies on bot payments to help support this game, and exploiting a bot bug is both cheating and detrimental to the game as a whole. Every time you exploit a bot, you make it that much more likely that the bot owner will not purchase another blessing or renew the bot for another year. We sincerely hope that Shaturas’ IP will be banned permanently. The following are the bot trade logs. [03/07:18]Traded 50 Gold Coins for 24 Bones with Shaturas [03/07:19]Traded 180 Gold Coins for 180 Gold Coins with Shaturas [03/07:20]Traded 187 Gold Coins for 187 Gold Coins with Shaturas [03/07:20]Traded 277 Gold Coins for 277 Gold Coins with Shaturas [03/07:21]Traded 307 Gold Coins for 307 Gold Coins with Shaturas [03/07:24]Traded 10 Health Essence (1038 left), 97 Gold Coins for 167 Gold Coins with Shaturas [03/07:25]Traded 297 Gold Coins for 297 Gold Coins with Shaturas [03/07:26]Traded 197 Gold Coins for 197 Gold Coins with Shaturas [03/07:27]Traded 114 Gold Coins for 114 Gold Coins with Shaturas [03/07:28]Traded 114 Gold Coins for 114 Gold Coins with Shaturas [03/07:29]Traded 114 Gold Coins for 114 Gold Coins with Shaturas [03/07:29]Traded 114 Gold Coins for 114 Gold Coins with Shaturas [03/07:30]Traded 114 Gold Coins for 114 Gold Coins with Shaturas [03/07:31]Traded 44 Gold Coins for 114 Gold Coins with Shaturas ERROR DETECTED!!!!!! Blocking player Shaturas14 Trade refused 14 Trade refused 14 Putting 10 Health Essence on trade 15 Server response to my item added: Item ID:59 Qty:10 17 Trade refused 18 Trade refused 18 Trade refused 18 Trade refused 18 He added 1200 Gold Coins to trade 18 Trade refused 18 Trade refused 18 Putting 1130 Gold Coins on trade 18 Trade refused 18 Trade refused 18 Trade refused 18 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 18 Trade refused 18 Trade refused 18 Trade refused 18 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 18 Trade refused 18 Trade refused 18 Trade refused 18 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 18 Trade refused 18 Trade refused 18 Trade refused 18 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 18 Trade refused 18 Trade refused 18 Trade refused 18 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 19 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:1130 19 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 19 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 19 Trade refused 19 Trade refused 19 Trade refused 19 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 19 Trade refused 19 Trade refused 19 Trade refused 19 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 19 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 19 Trade refused 19 Trade refused 19 Trade refused 19 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 19 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 19 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 19 Trade refused 19 Trade refused 19 Trade refused 19 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 19 Trade refused 20 Trade refused 20 Trade refused 20 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 20 Trade refused 20 Trade refused 20 Trade refused 20 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 20 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 20 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 20 Trade refused 20 Trade refused 20 Trade refused 20 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 20 Trade refused 20 Trade refused 20 Trade refused 20 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 20 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 20 Trade refused 20 Trade refused 20 Trade refused 20 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 20 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 20 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 20 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 20 Trade refused 20 Trade refused 20 Trade refused 20 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 20 Trade refused 20 Trade refused 20 Trade refused 20 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 21 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 21 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 21 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 21 Trade refused 21 Trade refused 21 Trade refused 21 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 21 Trade refused 21 Trade refused 21 Trade refused 21 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 21 Trade refused 21 Trade refused 21 Trade refused 21 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 21 Trade refused 21 Trade refused 21 Trade refused 21 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 21 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 21 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 21 Trade refused 21 Trade refused 21 Trade refused 21 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 22 Trade refused 22 Trade refused 22 Trade refused 22 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 22 Trade refused 22 Trade refused 22 Trade refused 22 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 22 Trade refused 22 Trade refused 22 Trade refused 22 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 22 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 22 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 22 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 22 Trade refused 22 Trade refused 22 Trade refused 22 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 22 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 22 Trade refused 22 Trade refused 22 Trade refused 22 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 22 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 22 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 23 Trade refused 23 Trade refused 23 Trade refused 23 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 23 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 23 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 23 Trade refused 23 Trade refused 23 Trade refused 23 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 23 Trade refused 23 Trade refused 23 Trade refused 23 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 23 Trade refused 23 Trade refused 23 Trade refused 23 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 23 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 23 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 23 Trade refused 23 Trade refused 23 Trade refused 23 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 23 Trade refused 23 Trade refused 23 Trade refused 23 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 23 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 24 Trade refused 24 Trade refused 24 Trade refused 24 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 24 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 24 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 24 Trade refused 24 Trade refused 24 Trade refused 24 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 24 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 24 Trade refused 24 Trade refused 24 Trade refused 24 Putting 300 Gold Coins on trade 24 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 24 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 24 Trade refused 24 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 24 Trade refused 25 Trade refused 25 Trade refused 25 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 25 Server response to my item added: Item ID:3 Qty:300 25 Trade refused 25 Trade refused 25 Trade refused 25 Trade refused 25 Trade refused 26 Trade refused 26 Trade refused 26 Trade refused 26 Trade refused 27 Trade refused 27 Trade refused 27 Trade refused 27 Trade refused 27 Trade refused 27 Trade refused 28 Trade refused 28 Trade refused 28 Trade refused 28 Trade refused 28 Trade refused 29 Trade refused 29 Trade refused 30 Trade refused 30 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 30 Trade refused 30 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 31 Trade refused 31 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 31 Trade refused 31 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 31 Trade refused 31 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 31 Trade refused 31 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 31 Trade refused 31 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 31 Trade refused 31 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 32 Trade refused 32 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 32 Trade refused 32 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 32 Trade refused 32 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 32 Trade refused 32 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 32 Trade refused 33 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 33 Trade refused 33 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 33 Trade refused 33 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 33 Trade refused 33 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 33 Trade refused 33 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 33 Trade refused 33 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 34 Trade refused 34 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 34 Trade refused 34 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 34 Trade refused 34 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 34 Trade refused 34 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 34 Trade refused 34 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 34 Trade refused 35 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 35 Trade refused 35 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 35 Trade refused 35 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 35 Trade refused 35 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 35 Trade refused 35 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 35 Trade refused 35 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 36 Trade refused 36 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 36 Trade refused 36 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 36 Trade refused 36 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 36 Trade refused 36 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 36 Trade refused 36 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 36 Trade refused 36 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 37 Trade refused 37 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 37 Trade refused 37 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 37 Trade refused 37 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 37 Trade refused 37 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 38 Trade refused 38 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 38 Trade refused 38 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 38 Trade refused 38 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 38 Trade refused 38 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 39 Trade refused 39 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 39 Trade refused 39 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 39 Trade refused 39 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 39 Trade refused 39 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 39 Trade refused 39 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 40 Trade refused 40 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 40 Trade refused 40 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 40 Trade refused 40 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 40 Trade refused 40 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 40 Trade refused 40 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 41 Trade refused 41 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 41 Trade refused 41 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 41 Trade refused 41 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 41 Trade refused 41 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 42 Trade refused 42 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 42 Trade refused 42 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 42 Trade refused 42 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 42 Trade refused 42 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 43 Trade refused 43 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 43 Trade refused 43 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 44 Trade refused 44 Trader removed 300 Gold Coins from trade 48 Removing 11586 Gold Coins from trade48 Trade refused 49 Trade refused 49 Trade refused 49 I removed 10 Health Essence from trade 49 Trade accepted 54 Trade accepted 55 Trade accepted [03/07:16]Trade started with Shaturas [03/07:17]Trade ended with Shaturas [03/07:17]Trade started with Shaturas [03/07:18]Trade ended successfully [03/07:18]Trade started with Shaturas [03/07:18][PM from Shaturas: buy 25 health essence] [03/07:19]Trade ended successfully [03/07:19]Trade started with Shaturas [03/07:19][PM from Shaturas: buy 25 health essence] [03/07:20]Trade ended successfully [03/07:20]Trade started with Shaturas [03/07:20][PM from Shaturas: buy 30 health essence] [03/07:20]Trade ended successfully [03/07:20]Trade started with Shaturas [03/07:21][PM from Shaturas: buy 25 health essence] [03/07:21]Trade ended successfully [03/07:21]Trade started with Shaturas [03/07:21][PM from Shaturas: buy 20 health essence] [03/07:22][PM from Shaturas: buy 20 health essence] [03/07:22][PM from Shaturas: inv] [03/07:22]Trade ended with Shaturas [03/07:22][PM from Shaturas: inv] [03/07:22]Trade started with Shaturas [03/07:22]Trade ended with Shaturas [03/07:23]Trade started with Shaturas [03/07:23][PM from Shaturas: buy 20 health essence] [03/07:23]Trade ended with Shaturas [03/07:23]Trade started with Shaturas [03/07:24][PM from Shaturas: buy 10 health essence] [03/07:24]Trade ended successfully [03/07:24]Trade started with Shaturas [03/07:24][PM from Shaturas: buy 40 health essence] [03/07:25]Trade ended successfully [03/07:25]Trade started with Shaturas [03/07:25][PM from Shaturas: buy 30 health essence] [03/07:25]Trade ended with Shaturas [03/07:25]Trade started with Shaturas [03/07:25][PM from Shaturas: buy 40 health essence] [03/07:26]Trade ended successfully [03/07:26]Trade started with Shaturas [03/07:26][PM from Shaturas: buy 20 health essence] [03/07:26]Trade ended with Shaturas [03/07:26]Trade started with Shaturas [03/07:26][PM from Shaturas: buy 20 health essence] [03/07:26]Trade ended with Shaturas [03/07:26]Trade started with Shaturas [03/07:27][PM from Shaturas: buy 10 health essence] [03/07:27]Trade ended successfully [03/07:27]Trade started with Shaturas [03/07:27][PM from Shaturas: buy 10 health essence] [03/07:28]Trade ended successfully [03/07:28][PM from Shaturas: inv] [03/07:28]Trade started with Shaturas [03/07:28][PM from Shaturas: buy 10 health essence] [03/07:29]Trade ended successfully [03/07:29]Trade started with Shaturas [03/07:29][PM from Shaturas: buy 10 health essence] [03/07:29]Trade ended successfully [03/07:29]Trade started with Shaturas [03/07:30][PM from Shaturas: buy 10 health essence] [03/07:30]Trade ended successfully [03/07:30]Trade started with Shaturas [03/07:31][PM from Shaturas: buy 10 health essence] [03/07:31]Trade ended successfully [03/07:47]Connection closed [03/07:58]Loading configuration from file bot.conf [03/07:58]Logging winterstar [03/07:58]Logged in! [03/07:58][PM from mciscass: inv] [03/07:58]Connection closed We will be implementing the new deathadder code. Thanks mciscass & mcisRICH Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LabRat Report post Posted April 3, 2009 (edited) Uberbanned from all my hosted bots along with lordvanbloot Unfortunately as far as rule 5 goes scamming a bot is not considered cheating, just as scamming a player isn't considered cheating either. Judging by Shaturas' stats he is an alt, the best you can hope for is he transfers gc onto his main and gets locked for multiplay. Edited April 3, 2009 by LabRat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mciscass Report post Posted April 3, 2009 Uberbanned from all my hosted bots along with lordvanbloot Unfortunately as far as rule 5 goes scamming a bot is not considered cheating, just as scamming a player isn't considered cheating either. Judging by Shaturas' stats he is an alt, the best you can hope for is he transfers gc onto his main and gets locked for multiplay. Thank you for your reply. This isn't scamming a bot, this is exploiting a bug in a bot. Radu allows bots in the game as a way to financially support the game. Because bots are a legal part of the game exploiting a bug in a bot is exploiting a bug in the game. Also, Rule #5 only says it is cheating to exploit a bug, it does not specify that exploiting certain bugs is okay. If it is alright to exploit bot bugs, it is sure to reduce the income that Radu collects from bots. Bots are an investment that needs to be protected for everyone sake. Thanks mciscass & mcisRICH Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Acelon Report post Posted April 3, 2009 (edited) Bots are player-driven, and not official. The exploiting bugs rule applies to bugs with the game itself, not player-run bots. If there is a bug with a bot, it is the bot-owner's problem. Edited April 3, 2009 by Acelon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aislinn Report post Posted April 3, 2009 Bots are privately owned and programmed. EL does not provide the code for bots and is not responsible for faulty code in bots. Rule 5 does not currently include this sort of problem with bots. If you would like to ask him to reconsider this, you are welcome to send him a forum pm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LabRat Report post Posted April 3, 2009 Remember I am completely on the side of the bot owners. Bot code is not client code or server code and is not subject to the same level of administrative protection as client code. The author of the bot code patched the bug but you failed to upgrade your bot in a timely manner which caused your bot to be exploited. Sad to say but the blame lies squarely at the feet of the person hosting the bot for not upgrading the bot code when the code was patched. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mciscass Report post Posted April 3, 2009 Thank you all for you input. How you explain rule #5 will definitely be considered before I buy additional blessing or renew our bot in future years. Programs will always have exploitable bugs (we cannot change that), and if the exploitation is acceptable it changes my view on the value bots hold in the game. I will appeal to Radu as you suggested, since I believe this affects him as well as bot owners. It is interesting because it is a problem in which the exploiter can be easily identified (trade log patterns are diagnostic), and therefore easy to make unprofitable for exploiters by banning. We cannot change that there will always be ways to exploit programs, but we can change how exploitation of programs running legally in EL is dealt with to protect and encourage bot ownership. Thanks mciscass & mcisRICH Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DogBreath Report post Posted April 3, 2009 Thank you all for you input. How you explain rule #5 will definitely be considered before I buy additional blessing or renew our bot in future years. Programs will always have exploitable bugs (we cannot change that), and if the exploitation is acceptable it changes my view on the value bots hold in the game. I will appeal to Radu as you suggested, since I believe this affects him as well as bot owners. It is interesting because it is a problem in which the exploiter can be easily identified (trade log patterns are diagnostic), and therefore easy to make unprofitable for exploiters by banning. We cannot change that there will always be ways to exploit programs, but we can change how exploitation of programs running legally in EL is dealt with to protect and encourage bot ownership. Thanks mciscass & mcisRICH Unfortunately, this has always been an issue with bots (from as far back as I can recall.) I can remember many years ago bots getting scammed and people having to adjust to fix them, it's a sad truth of owing a bot that you have to be on your toes all the time against such a thing. Truth be told, the goal of bot programmers is two-fold, one: to provide a well functioning bot that does what you want it to; two: to write code that cannot be abused in such a way that it makes you lose your hard earned coins. Bot owners must always be vigilant in policing this and asking their programmer to fix things as quickly as they can be found as well as updating their versions of the code when it's fixed. There are several bot services offered, some paid, some for free that keep a nearly constant eye on the bots and would take all bots down on their service if such an exploit was found (until it was fixed.) I suggest you research some of these services and see what might fit your needs best. Often this is a better option then running your own version of the code as there are many eyes watching it at the same time and problems are found/fixed before they can get abused. I'm sorry for your hard lesson, it does suck that someone would stoop so low as to use exploits as their way around hard work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Entropy Report post Posted April 3, 2009 The bots are the sole responsibility of their owners. We can not and do not check for bugs in them, and from our point of view, scamming a bot is the same thing as scamming a player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
