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Should selling gc for $ be banned

Should selling gc for $ be banned?  

152 members have voted

  1. 1. Should players be allowed to sell gc for $?

    • Yes
      77
    • No
      75
  2. 2. If you voted no, do you think any exceptions should be made?

    • Voted Yes
      68
    • No (but voted no above)
      31
    • gc to EL shop transfers (giving gc to someone to pay for p2p, etc)
      54
    • other - specify in your post
      5


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Gold Farming is a problem, and needs to be addressed and solved.

I thought the problem was that Radu's not earning enough from the shop :laugh: ...well, that's the only problem that affects us all...

Radu not earning enough from the shop is a symptom of gold farming, as the $$ are going to gold farmers, rather than to Radu where the money belongs. In my opinion, gold farming is the problem, lack of profit for the ones who most certainly deserve it (radu and roja) is the symptom.

 

And gold farming certainly affects us all, it's what is causing the rising prices of valued resources as the gold coin is devalued, and rostos become more and more rare ingame. It's what is helping to screw up the game's economy.

 

The first thing to consider should be stopping gold farming, if that still doesn't create enough profit, then other money making schemes should be considered.

 

edit - Typos :) ... and other stuff to add.

 

The problem isn't the gold farming, it is people's attitude toward it.

I was joking when I said it's going to pay for my internet. :D

I personally only gold farm to buy books, FP & arrows.

What money I did earn, I use to buy base ingredients (mostly harvestables) to make things to sell. (rinse & repeat)

I did once gold farm to buy an adventurer's cap & fill Agneum with silver to get IEDP perk. :sneaky:

If everyone had that attitude, there wouldn't be a problem.

With your attitude of removing gold farming, I would not be able to continually recycle my gc into the economy because it would be depleted by consumables.

In fairness to those of us that don't abuse the gold farming, find another solution.

I have seen many here in this thread.

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I personally only gold farm to buy books, FP & arrows.

Making gold coins in game to buy ingame resources isn't what I would call gold farming (well, technically it is). That's well... playing the game :sneaky:

 

Making gold coins to sell for $$ is farming gold for real life profit, which is a bad thing. Mostly when it's in excess, as it is now, with harvesting alts farming gold coins independent of their mains, then selling for $$.

 

-edit-

 

When I attack gold farming. I mean gold farming in the sense of gold being created in game for $$ profit.

Edited by Enly

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[

When I attack gold farming. I mean gold farming in the sense of gold being created in game for $$ profit.

 

Only way to really prevent gc sales is to make gc untradeable. :sneaky:

 

Making harvestables limited will only drive the prices up.

This will make it impossible to buy harvestables so I can focus on my other skills.

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one way to see who was farming and selling gold coins would be this :

 

1.each independant player has to register a main character with EL , this is your main that you spend most time on - want to consider your primary account

obviously family members from the same IP register 2 maybe 3 accounts, but only after being verified as actual family and not a sperm spawn family

 

2.After each person registers then thier IP is logged to no ?

 

3.Therefore people could still have alts doing whatever teh f00k they please, but if any of these alts are obviously and systematically selling GC within the game those alts can be banned along with the IP of the owner, as they are NOT the main character and are just harvesting and then giving away GC at a later date. This would be alot of extra work for mods but at the same time theres alot of mods perhaps if they spent a couple of hours each a day looking for systematic giving away of LARGE sums of GC it doesnt look like a huge task ....... obviously youd never get everyone but you dont get everyone who breaks current rules either

 

If GC selling for $$ is hurting the overall game then why should it not be banned ? I apreciate that someone like Labrat returns services to the game thanks to GC selling but are you trying to say EL would fall if you couldnt sell GC ???

Edited by Ateh

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I personally only gold farm to buy books, FP & arrows.

Making gold coins in game to buy ingame resources isn't what I would call gold farming (well, technically it is). That's well... playing the game :sneaky:

 

Making gold coins to sell for $$ is farming gold for real life profit, which is a bad thing.

Or give the house a percentage...................just an Idea. I have rampant thoughts in my head most days. Ignore the ramblings if ya like. Or ponder them. :laugh:

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Do like runescape and make trade limits that have to be within ~8Kgc +/- the traded items. That would cut out on rl sales of gc for $$

 

No way. That would kill giving items away in contests and events. Not to mention private gratuities to friends and allies. Too big an impact to be considered, I hope. I really WOULD be forced to change the way I play EL if that was done.

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If GC selling for $$ is hurting the overall game then why should it not be banned ?

 

The only way to stop the selling of gc is to make gc untradeable.

 

Banning is for people that care about thier account.

A gold seller would simply make an account using a proxy or sp00fed IP.

Ban them for gold selling and they would be back 10 minutes later.

I play another MMO that bans for gold selling and all thier servers are overrun with gold sellers 24/7.

Then of course who is to say they didn't just give the gold away.

Radu can't track everyone's Visa card transactions.

It really just is a useless waste of time trying to track all this.

I have seen several good ideas in this thread and the Gold Membership thread that could get Radu his Ferrari payments.

Edited by Scratch

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I voted Yes selling gc for $ should be ALLOWED. But the poll options were kind of confusing, first it says "should it be banned?" then the poll option right beneath it says "should selling gc for $ be allowed?" with Yes/No option. People could get confused and think they are voting "no it should not be banned" or "yes it should be banned" instead of what the poll option actually says, because of the text that proceeds it.

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I voted Yes selling gc for $ should be ALLOWED.

 

Why would anyone want to spend countless hours creating and supporting a game where the very players who enjoy it so much are the ones underselling its creator, taking sales right out of his pocket?

 

If I don't have the means to pay for e.g. a PVP race, and find someone generous enough to pay the $20 or $50 to the shop for me, the EL shop gets the business. There is a risk involved of scamming here, which can be eliminated by the $ tokens, redeemable from an npc for items, or to Radu himself for services (i.e. I could buy 50 $ tokens from a player, then trade them to radu for the pvp race switch). If gc is traded for $ fairly in this manner, the EL shop already has $ in-hand. Nobody loses. Radu gets $, Player gets PVP race, Buyer gets gc.

 

Alternatively, if I decide to sell 400k gc for $50: Each party (buyer & seller) has a chance to lose the $50 or 400k via scam. If all goes well, Player1 gets gc, Farmer1 gets $. Either way, the EL shop gets diddly squat. Radu has effectively wasted his time and effort.

Most players who farm and sell gc (outside of in-game transfers for EL shop purchases) are effectively stealing income from Radu.

EL is offered to all of us at no cost. To turn around, screw over the game owners and selfishly turn a profit from the generosity of another is simply despicable.

Note: For a very few select cases (e.g. hosting services rendered), I'm sure other arrangements can be made.

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Do like runescape and make trade limits that have to be within ~8Kgc +/- the traded items. That would cut out on rl sales of gc for $$

 

I disagree, I for one give away certain items. I also give my guildies loads of stuff I may never use, and would hate to have to pm a mod for every trade. Tbh, the best option I have heard is the limiting one client at a time, although I am not sure that is the answer. I do know that expecting the community to police themselves on this matter will never work.

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As I was saying, I do not plan to make gold selling illegal. Besides for the fact that it is very hard to police it (I can think of MANY ways to get around it), I think that disallowing the gold sales does not address the whole problem.

Fact is, for the time being it is 'smarter' from a purley financial point of view to buy from farmers (provided that you accept the risk to get scammed, are willing to wait until the farmer gets all the money that you need, and you don't care that much about us making money).

However, even if I don't do anything about it, the inflation will get to such levels in the future where it will be again profitable to buy stuff from the shop. It is about supply and demand. Let us do some math: Right now, you can get 8K gold per USD from some farmers. If you buy 10 USD worth of EFEs, you get 6 EFEs. If you buy 10 USD worth of gold, you get 80K gold.

So when the EFE price will get to 80K/6= 13.3K, then it will be better to buy from the shop (no chance to get scammed, you can buy as many as you want, you don't contribute to inflation).

Let us look at the rostos now: If you buy 100 USD worth of rostos, you get 25. If you buy 100 USD of gold, you get 800K gold.

So when the price of the rostos reaches 800K/25=32K, it will be again profitable to buy them from the shop.

 

Sooner or later, if people buy more from farmers than from the shop, the EFEs and rostos are going to reach that price.

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So when the EFE price will get to 80K/6= 13.3K, then it will be better to buy from the shop (no chance to get scammed, you can buy as many as you want, you don't contribute to inflation).

Let us look at the rostos now: If you buy 100 USD worth of rostos, you get 25. If you buy 100 USD of gold, you get 800K gold.

So when the price of the rostos reaches 800K/25=32K, it will be again profitable to buy them from the shop.

 

Sooner or later, if people buy more from farmers than from the shop, the EFEs and rostos are going to reach that price.

 

EFE's at 13.3k, rostogols at 32k...this does little else but make it all but impossible for anyone but gc buyers or to be able to afford much of anything. Who is going to go have fun in invasions when it costs 32,000 gc every time you die? Ebul hoarders are shunned, but if the price for an EFE is expected to hit 13.3k gc, why would anyone be stupid enough to sell one now? It would take days worth of harvesting (for some) before being able to afford to risk losing another rostogol. Endless harvesting for an hour or two of fun in an invasion is not fun for normal players, just afk harvest alts.

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EFE's at 13.3k, rostogols at 32k...this does little else but make it all but impossible for anyone but gc buyers or to be able to afford much of anything. Who is going to go have fun in invasions when it costs 32,000 gc every time you die? Ebul hoarders are shunned, but if the price for an EFE is expected to hit 13.3k gc, why would anyone be stupid enough to sell one now? It would take days worth of harvesting (for some) before being able to afford to risk losing another rostogol. Endless harvesting for an hour or two of fun in an invasion is not fun for normal players, just afk harvest alts.

 

Umm, maybe because the price of the other items will go up as well, so it won't really matter?

Keep in mind that the EFEs used to be 3.3K or so, now they are almost 3 times more, and the end of the world didn't come.

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EFE's at 13.3k, rostogols at 32k...this does little else but make it all but impossible for anyone but gc buyers or to be able to afford much of anything. Who is going to go have fun in invasions when it costs 32,000 gc every time you die? Ebul hoarders are shunned, but if the price for an EFE is expected to hit 13.3k gc, why would anyone be stupid enough to sell one now? It would take days worth of harvesting (for some) before being able to afford to risk losing another rostogol. Endless harvesting for an hour or two of fun in an invasion is not fun for normal players, just afk harvest alts.

 

Umm, maybe because the price of the other items will go up as well, so it won't really matter?

Keep in mind that the EFEs used to be 3.3K or so, now they are almost 3 times more, and the end of the world didn't come.

 

Shop price changed from $1 to $2 each, which spawned the majority of that change. It wasn't the end of the world, and yes, players can perhaps use lower level armor instead of training ogres in full dragon armor. EFE's are largely for high level armors (arguably a luxury) and tools. Rostogol stones are more along the lines of a necessity, for most players who have finally saved up enough gc to buy their brand new 50k gc iron plate set, and 27k gc serp sword.

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However, even if I don't do anything about it, the inflation will get to such levels in the future where it will be again profitable to buy stuff from the shop. It is about supply and demand. Let us do some math: Right now, you can get 8K gold per USD from some farmers. If you buy 10 USD worth of EFEs, you get 6 EFEs. If you buy 10 USD worth of gold, you get 80K gold.

So when the EFE price will get to 80K/6= 13.3K, then it will be better to buy from the shop (no chance to get scammed, you can buy as many as you want, you don't contribute to inflation).

Until the gold farmers realize they're loosing profit to you (who should be getting the money) and start selling gc at 10k per USD, to encourage people to buy from them, rather than you?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but gc hasn't always been at the going rate it is now, and won't always be.

 

At the moment, its a competition, and things will keep going up as gold farmers lower their prices to make profit if people stop buying. Afterall, if you have a lot of harvesting alts, you don't really care exactly how much it goes for, as long as it goes. It's not costing you anything.

 

So who is to say it stops when rostos are 32k? That's already a horrid price, and nothing is to stop the rates from changing and things getting even worse.

Edited by Enly

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Shop price changed from $1 to $2 each, which spawned the majority of that change. It wasn't the end of the world, and yes, players can perhaps use lower level armor instead of training ogres in full dragon armor. EFE's are largely for high level armors (arguably a luxury) and tools. Rostogol stones are more along the lines of a necessity, for most players who have finally saved up enough gc to buy their brand new 50k gc iron plate set, and 27k gc serp sword.

 

They were still 3K when the price changed to 2 USD.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but gc hasn't always been at the going rate it is now, and won't always be.

 

At the moment, its a competition, and things will keep going up as gold farmers lower their prices to make profit if people stop buying. Afterall, if you have a lot of harvesting alts, you don't really care exactly how much it goes for, as long as it goes. It's not costing you anything.

 

So who is to say it stops when rostos are 32k? That's already a horrid price, and nothing is to stop the rates from changing and things getting even worse.

 

Because there is only so much gold you can make in any given time, without resorting to cheating (macroing). of course, in theory you can sell 1MGC for 1 USD, but there is a point when it is not worth the effort, and you don't have the capability to farm that much gold.

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Because there is only so much gold you can make in any given time, without resorting to cheating (macroing). of course, in theory you can sell 1MGC for 1 USD, but there is a point when it is not worth the effort, and you don't have the capability to farm that much gold.

So therefore you admit it won't necessarily stop at 32k, and that's my point. It will have to stop, eventually, but 32k is already an awful price (as asgnny illustrated) and higher just makes it worse, and worse. It makes things more and more difficult for the players who just play normally, rather than buying/selling gold coins.

 

Nobody wants to take part in invasions and go fight the fun new mare bulangiu if they die and loose 32k (or more, what if it ends up at 50k?) to protect their gear, if they're not buying gold coins to pave their way.

 

It won't stop at 32k, and people are frustrated as is, and it has the potential to just get worse. Not to mention this isn't the real world economy, there are ways to control it, and nobody wants to go through an ingame recession, its not fun in life, so why is it fun to experience a bad economy ingame until it settles out, if there is a potential to make it better now?

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but gc hasn't always been at the going rate it is now, and won't always be.

 

At the moment, its a competition, and things will keep going up as gold farmers lower their prices to make profit if people stop buying. Afterall, if you have a lot of harvesting alts, you don't really care exactly how much it goes for, as long as it goes. It's not costing you anything.

 

So who is to say it stops when rostos are 32k? That's already a horrid price, and nothing is to stop the rates from changing and things getting even worse.

 

Because there is only so much gold you can make in any given time, without resorting to cheating (macroing). of course, in theory you can sell 1MGC for 1 USD, but there is a point when it is not worth the effort, and you don't have the capability to farm that much gold.

 

If farming for gc is no longer profitable, players can always farm (via afk harvesting alts) for other forms of currency, whether it be silver ore, iron ore, etc.

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Umm, maybe because the price of the other items will go up as well, so it won't really matter?

Keep in mind that the EFEs used to be 3.3K or so, now they are almost 3 times more, and the end of the world didn't come.

 

:P

 

Is the NPC buy rate going to increase as well?

As a crafter, I have to rely on the NPC to break even because it's hard to sell several thousand moon medallions.

(bowing in respect to Ghrae & Molime for rolling the hard way before NPC)

Then eventually prices will reach a point where it will be the same price to buy from NPC.

Or perhaps those prices will go up as well?

Inflation is not the answer.

 

I believe your best bet is to not try to compete with the gold sellers.

Concentrate on things the gold sellers can't offer.

Gold Membership

Tokens (1 item in the shop to sell! player trades to NPC for a list of junk)

Potion of No Cooldown (I know :P )

I saw some others, but can't think of them atm.

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  • Remove rostogols stones from being found as harvesting events and from being a monster drop (i.e. remove them from naturally entering the game completely)
  • Remove all No Drop PK areas
  • Sell Rostos in shop @ $1 each

 

EDIT: hmmm, actually, i'll ponder on the repercussions a little longer before standing by this suggestion.

Edited by Korrode

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Selling gcs for $ should definitely be banned. Some people are basically infesting this game with selling gcs for $, paypal scams and other sort of nonsense. These people should be permanently banned.

 

EL is not an excuse for some unemployed group of players to exploit for $ because they lack real life skills and can't get real life jobs.

 

I suggest if you want to buy gcs, buy stuff like rostogols from EL shop and sell them ingame.

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I voted Yes selling gc for $ should be ALLOWED.

Why would anyone want to spend countless hours creating and supporting a game where the very players who enjoy it so much are the ones underselling its creator, taking sales right out of his pocket?

[snip]

Most players who farm and sell gc (outside of in-game transfers for EL shop purchases) are effectively stealing income from Radu.

It is, of course, up to the creators if they wish to continue the game development, or allow/disallow various game practices. However, that being said, this poll was directed towards the players, presumably to determine the community's stance on gold farming.

 

In regards to the effects of gold farming on the official shop's income, I would contend that shifting focus to a more (unique) service oriented business model would help to alleviate any problems that may or may not exist. This is basically what Radu suggested in the other thread with the Gold Member proposal.

 

EL is offered to all of us at no cost. To turn around, screw over the game owners and selfishly turn a profit from the generosity of another is simply despicable.

 

I would think of it more as practical than despicable. And, at any rate, with the current gc drop and conversion rates it's hardly possible to make decent income from this method. Previously, it had been posible to make 20-25k/hour and sell for 4-5k/$ yielding an estimated $5-6 per hour. Now, at an exchange rate of 6-8/$1, and after all the drops reductions, you would be lucky to make $2 an hour.

 

Perhaps, if the gold farmers made a union, similar to the manu union that was proposed in the other thread, the gold prices may stabilize a bit and people could get rostos again for cheaper prices, Radu would still have improved income from the shop and gold farmers would make better $/hour.

 

 

And again, I don't see how this could remotely qualify as stealing money in any reasonable sense. It would be akin to saying that not participating in invasions or other money sinks is stealing money, and therefore "despicable."

Edited by Ryuu

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It is, of course, up to the creators if they wish to continue the game development, or allow/disallow various game practices. However, that being said, this poll was directed towards the players, presumably to determine the community's stance on gold farming.

 

In regards to the effects of gold farming on the official shop's income, I would contend that shifting focus to a more (unique) service oriented business model would help to alleviate any problems that may or may not exist. This is basically what Radu suggested in the other thread with the Gold Member proposal.

 

"Gold farming," as in a character gathering gc for sale is not inherently bad, IF the money spent supports the EL shop. If someone wants to buy $ tokens (redeemable for EL shop items & services), then I have no issue with it. The EL shop benefits by receiving the $, the person buying the $ tokens benefits by receiving gc, and the farmer benefits via the shop item/service. This still allows for a free market, but nobody loses.

 

EL is offered to all of us at no cost. To turn around, screw over the game owners and selfishly turn a profit from the generosity of another is simply despicable.

 

I would think of it more as practical than despicable. And, at any rate, with the current gc drop and conversion rates it's hardly possible to make decent income from this method. Previously, it had been posible to make 20-25k/hour and sell for 4-5k/$ yielding an estimated $5-6 per hour. Now, at an exchange rate of 6-8/$1, and after all the drops reductions, you would be lucky to make $2 an hour.

 

Perhaps, if the gold farmers made a union, similar to the manu union that was proposed in the other thread, the gold prices may stabilize a bit and people could get rostos again for cheaper prices, Radu would still have improved income from the shop and gold farmers would make better $/hour.

 

And again, I don't see how this could remotely qualify as stealing money in any reasonable sense. It would be akin to saying that not participating in invasions or other money sinks is stealing money, and therefore "despicable."

It doesn't matter whether the rate is $2/hr or $5/hr. Whatever the rate is, it's still beneficial for people to farm and sell gc, otherwise they wouldn't do it. Nobody forces them to work for slave wages. It's a choice.

 

A union of gc sellers won't work, with the possible of exception when trades are confined to $ tokens vs. gc in-game. This means a direct trade, rather than one party paying gc or $ in advance. A trade with the double "Accept" click makes it tough to scam at that point. Also, unless there is a single in-game transfer, there should NOT be a fixed "union" rate of transfer. An unknown buyer or seller introduces a higher possibility of scamming, so the rate should change to account for the risk involved.

 

As far as stealing money, if I want to spend $50 for some gold coins, my choices are to buy some items/services from the EL shop (where radu gets $50), or to (unofficially) buy gc from another player, where radu does NOT get $50). That other player is stealing business (to the tune of $50) from radu.

 

Participating in money sinks, invasions, contests, or what have you does NOT not entail taking money that would otherwise have gone to radu's pocket. The argument is completely invalid.

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It is, of course, up to the creators if they wish to continue the game development, or allow/disallow various game practices. However, that being said, this poll was directed towards the players, presumably to determine the community's stance on gold farming.

 

In regards to the effects of gold farming on the official shop's income, I would contend that shifting focus to a more (unique) service oriented business model would help to alleviate any problems that may or may not exist. This is basically what Radu suggested in the other thread with the Gold Member proposal.

 

"Gold farming," as in a character gathering gc for sale is not inherently bad, IF the money spent supports the EL shop. If someone wants to buy $ tokens (redeemable for EL shop items & services), then I have no issue with it. The EL shop benefits by receiving the $, the person buying the $ tokens benefits by receiving gc, and the farmer benefits via the shop item/service. This still allows for a free market, but nobody loses.

 

EL is offered to all of us at no cost. To turn around, screw over the game owners and selfishly turn a profit from the generosity of another is simply despicable.

 

I would think of it more as practical than despicable. And, at any rate, with the current gc drop and conversion rates it's hardly possible to make decent income from this method. Previously, it had been posible to make 20-25k/hour and sell for 4-5k/$ yielding an estimated $5-6 per hour. Now, at an exchange rate of 6-8/$1, and after all the drops reductions, you would be lucky to make $2 an hour.

 

Perhaps, if the gold farmers made a union, similar to the manu union that was proposed in the other thread, the gold prices may stabilize a bit and people could get rostos again for cheaper prices, Radu would still have improved income from the shop and gold farmers would make better $/hour.

 

And again, I don't see how this could remotely qualify as stealing money in any reasonable sense. It would be akin to saying that not participating in invasions or other money sinks is stealing money, and therefore "despicable."

It doesn't matter whether the rate is $2/hr or $5/hr. Whatever the rate is, it's still beneficial for people to farm and sell gc, otherwise they wouldn't do it. Nobody forces them to work for slave wages. It's a choice.

 

A union of gc sellers won't work, with the possible of exception when trades are confined to $ tokens vs. gc in-game. This means a direct trade, rather than one party paying gc or $ in advance. A trade with the double "Accept" click makes it tough to scam at that point. Also, unless there is a single in-game transfer, there should NOT be a fixed "union" rate of transfer. An unknown buyer or seller introduces a higher possibility of scamming, so the rate should change to account for the risk involved.

 

As far as stealing money, if I want to spend $50 for some gold coins, my choices are to buy some items/services from the EL shop (where radu gets $50), or to (unofficially) buy gc from another player, where radu does NOT get $50). That other player is stealing business (to the tune of $50) from radu.

 

Participating in money sinks, invasions, contests, or what have you does NOT not entail taking money that would otherwise have gone to radu's pocket. The argument is completely invalid.

Me selling money is stealing from Radu?

 

Absolute bullshit.

 

Radu does not pay devs, mods or anyone other than himself and his wife for this game, is he stealing our work?

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