Gold membership

[asgnny]

If it will be done I'll be considering leaving EL for some free MUD, because I DO NOT like idea that rl $ places one people above others. (and I have no ways to pay - no paypal account or card).

 

sorry to tell you, but its been going on for years, people spending $ on game getting more then others.

maybe you didnt realise, but this change would tone it down quite a bit, while fixing the economy.

 

besides people who cant pay the $ can ask others to pay for them, in exchange for GC

 

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.p...st&p=494726

 

This would not fix the economy at all (by itself). It would make things no better, and probably worse for new players.

[BloodSucker]

If it will be done I'll be considering leaving EL for some free MUD, because I DO NOT like idea that rl $ places one people above others. (and I have no ways to pay - no paypal account or card).

 

oh bai bai? o/

 

Like making an paypal account would take forever... Even such a polish jerk as myself could open a PP account

 

And you dont have to pay. Its obligatory voluntary.

 

I have nothing against radu making profit from EL. It's just the way things are. You work, you earn.

I just hope it wont spoil the fun. And I'm willing to risk it. If the 'gold account' idea become be a dud, well, then I will simply stop paying for it.

 

And there's always a sandbox, a perfect place to play "other games".

 

besides people who cant pay the $ can ask others to pay for them, in exchange for GC

 

heh, we are aksuly trying to get rid of such situations... not to motivate ppl to farm gc in exchange for IRL $$.

Edited April 2, 2009 by BloodSucker

[Zamirah]

Given the fact that a change is probably inevitable, I just tried to point out that IF this were introduced, and IF you aren´t able to pay for the membership with RL currency for whatever reason, there will be people in game, just friendly, helpfull people, that will enable you to get the membership anyhow. At least you´d have the alternative of that, the choice however not to is all yours.

And how do I know this friendly people don't have 10 afk harving alts ?

I don't want to support these people.

I would never do this if I did'nt know people in RL.

Edited April 2, 2009 by Zamirah

[Dilly]

Given the fact that a change is probably inevitable, I just tried to point out that IF this were introduced, and IF you aren´t able to pay for the membership with RL currency for whatever reason, there will be people in game, just friendly, helpfull people, that will enable you to get the membership anyhow. At least you´d have the alternative of that, the choice however not to is all yours.

And how do I know this friendly people don't have 10 afk harving alts ?

I don't want to support these people.

I would never do this if I did'nt know people in RL.

 

That´s a choice, totally respectable but still a choice.

[Burn]

And how do I know this friendly people don't have 10 afk harving alts ?

 

 

Big diff between that and a couple alts.

 

10 would most likely be a violation of rule 8, or at the very least the spirit of it. Which would be something that can most likely be dealt with on a mod level.

[Shea]

Look how popular LabRat's service has been, this is certainly a feature you could be using to make RL$, Radu... change the rules so only you can run custom clothing service and start charging. (sorry LabRat ...but this idea just seems so much more viable and fair than all the others)

 

 

Except that the people who have already paid labrat for the service would lose the gold coins. To be honest I am one of them, but to support a game that I have enjoyed for years, and the person who invited me into his world, and never asked for anything in return except respect, I will gladly pay again.

 

I absolutely support the idea, Radu and Roja have given us more than we will ever realize, this game is the product or their imagination, how many of us would be so generous. Where is the harm in giving them a little bit back? If you can't afford it, that is fine, I do not believe you will be penalized for it. There will come a day when you can pay, and wouldn't it be a wonderful way to say thank you?

 

Radu, Roja from the bottom of my heart. Thank you.

 

Maybe both ideas will work. The custom content and the membership, I do like the idea someone had about levels: Silver, Gold, Platinum (er Titanium).

 

Shea

 

edit: OMG!!! Birthday Gifts!!! You may have just solved an issue I have been struggling with for over two years now.

Edited April 2, 2009 by Shea

[Sonic]

I suspect the gold membership idea would actually increase the number of gc farmers, and increase the exchange rate of gc/$. Granted, more money would be coming into the shop at first, this option would alienate some of the players who cannot pay $. I don't think ignoring the root problem and trying to eliminate one part of one of the symptoms is the best way to fix it.

 

There are some players who will buy these gold subscriptions to support EL (though I expect these players already do, or would buy other shop services), others who will farm gc in hopes that others will pay for them, and others still who will just make more farming alts to earn gc to sell, in order to buy this "gold membership" for their main. (note: using an alt like this to buy a benefit from the main violates rule 5, imo, but just as it is now, would be hard to catch.)

 

If the farming is not taken care of, the gc/$ ratio will just climb and climb until the only person left buying EFE's from the shop would be a donor. How hard is it to make 40k gc per month with an alt? not very. There is still a limited amount of money which is spent on EL. The "ebul IRL rich people" (who pay for the server, hosting, etc.) won't suddenly triple their overall spending (official and unofficial) because the gc ratio is better. Eventually players will fight over people who buy their gold membership each month. Players begin offering better and better gc/$ ratios up until almost nobody would dare buy these items from the shop directly.

 

Stop the farmers, and this all changes.

 

Spot on.

[Zilvador]

It seems like a nice idea. My main concern though might be about the way that this could lead. Some have suggested already P2P continents and though radu has denied it, I'm afraid that having gold users would lead to this later.

 

When I look for MMO games on the internet, by main priorities for the free ones are that there are no significant difference between paying players and those who are not paying. Having a P2P continent would have made me skip EL at first sight if I saw it among other games on a MMO site. And now as a part of the game I would feel kind of betrayed if there's actually some parts of the game I can not access unless I pay (or for that matter skills I can't train or equipment I can't wear). I can accept the items from the shop, since the most important ones can also be made in the game.

 

Don't get me wrong on this: I really appreciate the work the developers are doing and do believe that it's fair for radu to find a way to get payed for his work. I am just asking that it doesn't include closed parts of the game for not paying players. The current suggestions I can live with...especially if it would bring the rate of enriched essences back

[Marr]

i personally dislike this idea, it feels very wrong to me...

 

best would be to make the hole game a paid one, so at least everyone has the same chances!

Additionally i think the game needs a total reset, so many things changed over times that gave only a few ppl a big advantage over the newer players.

 

Why not give it a restart?

[marack]

Maybe this will clear it up for you:

 

[radu @ 6]: right now, for March, we made like 4K bucks

[radu @ 6]: now, you might think that 4k is a lot

[radu @ 6]: but that's two people, paypal fees, taxes, hosting fees..

[radu @ 6]: and we pay 7.5% more taxes than employed people

[radu @ 6]: and no health insurance, 401k, etc

[rauch @ 6]: so what do you have left? 1k? 1.5k?

[radu @ 6]: so we are at a point where it's not worth it anymore

 

I haven't dove into this discussion until I read Dilly's post (above), which clarifies it for me now.

 

Like others in game, Ashiana and marack have been regular shoppers at Ye Old EL shop, we have purchased a guild map and Ashi is a p2p characte -- all in support of the game. There are advantages in making these purchases and so there should be...but it has been our way to help contribute to radu and roja and the future of the game.

 

Whatever you decide if you buy it there should be advantages...sorry but that is why people will pay.

 

Ashiana and I will buy memberships Radu! Just say when

[HereticEast]

There are some players who will buy these gold subscriptions to support EL (though I expect these players already do, or would buy other shop services), others who will farm gc in hopes that others will pay for them, and others still who will just make more farming alts to earn gc to sell, in order to buy this "gold membership" for their main.

 

even if this were to happen that's 5$ to EL and not ebul gc farmers no? as is

gc farming is 0 for el no? if i am ebul gc farmer that's a lot of effort for 5$

Edited April 2, 2009 by HereticEast

[Marcvs]

IF the problem is ALSO a real-$$$ flow needed to manage the game, we can think this "goldenship members" in another way (that probably most of us will not like...):

 

- when you reach a high overall level - say 100 - or, better, when the sum of the experience of your skill reaches the equivalent amount of oa 100 (this because if people reset, the overall experience is deleted) - you will automatic enter in the "bronze membership".

- when you enter the bronze membership, you have some negative effects on your statistics like in the experience you gain, the chance of making rare items, and so on (and your name color doesn't change). Maybe the negative effects can rise as long as you gain more oa levels.

- to avoid those negative effects you can pay to enter the "silver membership", in wich the $ year duty is "acceptable", something like 15$ or 1.5$ per month (maybe this fee can be payd also in-game with gold coins?). Staying in the silver membership means that an OA > 100 player will play exactly as (s)he do now.

- besides, you can put in more $$ and enter the "gold membership" in wich you have the bonus we're discussing.

 

This would be a simple sistem to allow the more levelled players to automatically support the game.

 

This system will probably not help the base thought that wishes to modify the economy, and probably this will not help to avoid players to become gc farmers...but we can imagine that this sistem is applied in a different way, focalized on the harvesting:

 

- you enter the "bronze membership" when you reach a determinate harvesting level (relatively low?). once in the bronze membership, you will have a cap in the amount of resources you can harvest per hour (or something like this?). The harvesting cap can become lower and lower as your harvesting level become higher, but stopping anyway at a certain level (for example, you will start to have a cap at harv 50, in wich you can harvest only 1000 unit of each material per hour[or differenced caps: 1000 for ores, 3000 for flowers...and so on]. But at harv 70, the cap is only 250 items per hour). EDIT adding this:"we will need a system to avoid a single person to have 10 low-levelled players - under harv 50 - to escape from the cap and being a gc farmer anyway"

- to avoid the cap, you can pay to enter the "silver membership", but you will have no other bonuses.

- and you can pay a little more to enter the gold membership to have also some bonuses, maybe connected only with the harvest (more harvesting exp, more positive harvesting events, doubled the effects of the harvester medallion, less item break, or the capability to use a legendary "everlasting" pickaxe? )

 

or maybe a combination of the two systems.

 

just my 2 cents

 

EDIT: added a thought, the one in italic

Edited April 2, 2009 by Marcvs

[conavar]

@ Marcvs

 

So what you are basically saying is "when ppl reach a cetain level, penalize them until they pay $ "

 

hmmmm quick 100% way to lose a player base imo

[Infamous]

I suspect the gold membership idea would actually increase the number of gc farmers, and increase the exchange rate of gc/$. Granted, more money would be coming into the shop at first, this option would alienate some of the players who cannot pay $. I don't think ignoring the root problem and trying to eliminate one part of one of the symptoms is the best way to fix it.

 

There are some players who will buy these gold subscriptions to support EL (though I expect these players already do, or would buy other shop services), others who will farm gc in hopes that others will pay for them, and others still who will just make more farming alts to earn gc to sell, in order to buy this "gold membership" for their main. (note: using an alt like this to buy a benefit from the main violates rule 5, imo, but just as it is now, would be hard to catch.)

 

If the farming is not taken care of, the gc/$ ratio will just climb and climb until the only person left buying EFE's from the shop would be a donor. How hard is it to make 40k gc per month with an alt? not very. There is still a limited amount of money which is spent on EL. The "ebul IRL rich people" (who pay for the server, hosting, etc.) won't suddenly triple their overall spending (official and unofficial) because the gc ratio is better. Eventually players will fight over people who buy their gold membership each month. Players begin offering better and better gc/$ ratios up until almost nobody would dare buy these items from the shop directly.

 

Stop the farmers, and this all changes.

 

you seem to forget that this change is to stop goldfarmers, and make people support Radu more instead of those farmers.

its common sense that if more rare items enter the game, prices drop. prices drop and you have to spend less gc, and when that happens people dont need much money (which gets bought from goldfarmers)

you think its ignoring the root, it isnt.. take away the need for huge amounts of gc cause of inflation/moneysinks and there wouldnt be a need to buy from goldfarmers.

besides that you say it will increase the amount of goldsellers, who will they sell to? will they sell it amongst themselves?

 

prices drop -> less need for gc -> no need to buy tons of gc from goldfarmers, goldfarmers have no customers - bye goldfarmers

[Marcvs]

@ Marcvs

 

So what you are basically saying is "when ppl reach a cetain level, penalize them until they pay $ "

 

hmmmm quick 100% way to lose a player base imo

 

Yeah is why I'm the fist one to not like this system. But if we think that in other games you have to pay only to take a look, and if there also a ca$h problem to substain the game we all love, I can consider that a system to force players to pay from a certain level of some skill is less bad than other.

[Tico]

Radu,

 

Any concern about ppl not from US or EURO that have no international credit card or paypal account.

Its kinda hard for some of my friends to be able to use your shop. (Im from Brazil btw, and lots off ppl from my country have some difficulties to spend RL money due to the fact they do not live in euro os US)

I have same problem, not all countries in Europe have euro and I would have to go to my bank and buy them, so it would be more expensive for me.

I would have bought much more in the EL-shop if there had been another way to pay, I have needed those gold-farmers to buy there, what I don't like.

What about Pay Pal? I know some people don't say the best about it but I've had it for a couple years and it has worked great for me, from eBay to EL, and I don't even have a credit card, just a regular debit card.

 

I had paypal but after I had virus on my comp some years ago, are they not allowing me to use it, I have friends with same problem, patpal don't even answer us if we contact them.

The friends who used to buy from the shop for don't play now.

 

But I would really like to support this game even if I don't play much, I hope we will be able to pay with netbank.

 

My problem with paypal is that it does not accept my local currency (Real), wich makes it impossible without an international credit card.

To have an international credit card restricts a lot of brazilian players to spend money.

[boognish]

I don't really like this idea for some reasons already stated.

If it's truly better for the game and radu's bank account, then I support it.

I'm just not too keen on all the intricacies of the problem.

Encourage people to support the developers, not the gold farmers.

 

btw I'll be sending in a big money order tomorrow, so no Paypal or taxes if you decide

 

evil IRL $$$

[Ateh]

1. Ban gold coin selling, make it a permanent ban to, none of this 1 month crap - this means more shop bought items with $ again from what I can gather

 

2. Bring on the Gold Membership scheme as well , just please, dont include the extra experience aspect

 

I can understand why revenues need to be made for the developers, but I also think labrat made a valid point earlier : just take a directors role in the development of EL and go find something that pays you properly for your talents , no offense meant but labrats got a hell of a point

[Thyralax]

How about the option of reconsidering a P2P server? The same game, but costing 5$ a month or what ever ($20 for 6 months etc).

Unlike the Pk server this place is the same as the current server...same Pk zones, same spawns etc etc.

I can imagine a lot of people willing to migrate over to a new server, for the various benefits (fewer occupied spawns, chance to hit those all importanmt 1st lv 20 alchemsit, 1st lvl 40 crafter etc) .

The current server remains as it is free, but with all of its current faults and intrigues.

I would pay for this.

 

Just a thought. this way the game is still free and remains the same to those who dont want to pay, and there is a magical place for those that are willing able to pay a few $ for it.

I would have migrated over and played ont he pk server except i am not interested in the PK aspect which seriously put me off.

[Entropy]

How about the option of reconsidering a P2P server? The same game, but costing 5$ a month or what ever ($20 for 6 months etc).

Unlike the Pk server this place is the same as the current server...same Pk zones, same spawns etc etc.

I can imagine a lot of people willing to migrate over to a new server, for the various benefits (fewer occupied spawns, chance to hit those all importanmt 1st lv 20 alchemsit, 1st lvl 40 crafter etc) .

The current server remains as it is free, but with all of its current faults and intrigues.

I would pay for this.

 

Just a thought. this way the game is still free and remains the same to those who dont want to pay, and there is a magical place for those that are willing able to pay a few $ for it.

I would have migrated over and played ont he pk server except i am not interested in the PK aspect which seriously put me off.

 

That was an option, but it would split the community, and many people won't move there because their friends can't pay to go there as well.

[Infamous]

If it will be done I'll be considering leaving EL for some free MUD, because I DO NOT like idea that rl $ places one people above others. (and I have no ways to pay - no paypal account or card).

 

oh bai bai? o/

 

Like making an paypal account would take forever... Even such a polish jerk as myself could open a PP account

 

And you dont have to pay. Its obligatory voluntary.

 

I have nothing against radu making profit from EL. It's just the way things are. You work, you earn.

I just hope it wont spoil the fun. And I'm willing to risk it. If the 'gold account' idea become be a dud, well, then I will simply stop paying for it.

 

And there's always a sandbox, a perfect place to play "other games".

 

besides people who cant pay the $ can ask others to pay for them, in exchange for GC

 

heh, we are aksuly trying to get rid of such situations... not to motivate ppl to farm gc in exchange for IRL $$.

 

the irl $$ would go to shop, being spend on keeping the game up and having more time for updates, instead of being spend on Mcdonalds by a random goldseller

[stewbaby]

Stop the farmers, and this all changes.

 

The "farmers" exist because there are buyers.

 

This, in essence, is saying "All you lazy b@st@rds get off your virtual butts and mine your own resources".

 

I find it hard to believe that folks will, with one hand, buy their silver/diamonds etc rather than spend the effort mining it, then pour vitriol on those who are prepared to get their resources for them.

 

I have always mined my own stuff and only bought stuff I cannot make... but many of the top players cannot afford the opportunity cost, so contract it out. Neither approach is wrong, but only one group of players is being targeted at present... the hard workers that are being paid for their sacrifice (not easy to level chars when you spend all your online time harving for others).

 

There is no "solution" because there really is no problem.

 

Have a lovely day,

 

Stewbaby

[Michic0_oL]

Stop the farmers, and this all changes.

 

The "farmers" exist because there are buyers.

 

This, in essence, is saying "All you lazy b@st@rds get off your virtual butts and mine your own resources".

 

 

Amen.

[DHT]

I would have migrated over and played ont he pk server except i am not interested in the PK aspect which seriously put me off.

 

Have you at least actually PLAYED the PK server for a while? This server was a really good idea, and should bring radu more $$ if it was my call. One thing I don't understand tho, why those who cried "omg pk is dead!!1!" do not move to the PK server?

[bkc56]

I would have migrated over and played ont he pk server except i am not interested in the PK aspect which seriously put me off.

You should come give it a try. I don't PK, even the ants (I'm a supplier) and I've been on the PK server since day-1 and having a blast over there.

 

We really should re-name the PK server to the "no cooldown and more fun" server. The "PK" part seems to scare some people off that would actually enjoy it if they gave it a try.