Fed

[Aki]

A lot is going on around the world right now but there is one thing that i find important and want you to look into it.

It's about the transparency of the fed which is really an issue since decates. The video explains it good i think, if you want to know more there's plenty of information online.

 

 

 

"Dial the number and ask for your representative's office.

 

Ask them if your representatives is a co-sponsor of HR 1207 the Federal Reserve Transparency Act (or you can click the link in the info for this video and look for yourself). You can detail the bill to them if you feel comfortable and tell them you support it and would like to see your member as a co-sponsor.

 

Not too hard. Takes 2 minutes. "

 

 

I opened this thread on General Chat on purpose because i think more people look in here.

Please spread it. Hope it helps.

 

 

 

Greetings to everybody *hugs*

[DogBreath]

Yes, based on Radu's endorsement of Ron Paul, we've all learned a bit about this. The question is, how do you fix it? The last president that tried ended up dead (who knows if the PEOPLE behind the fed had something to do with that or not...) Yes, the fed is a beast, but how do you walk into the lions cage naked and hope to survive?

[Roja]

I'm leaving this topic here in GC because it indeed is very important-not only if you live in the US but even the rest of the world. Of course only US people can make a change.

 

So if you agree that the Federal Reserve should not be so powerful as it is now then do something about it. Just write to your congressmen! Don't know who that is? Look it up online, they're easy enough to find. Here's a letter I found that you can copy/paste:

 

Hello [insert name of your congressman here]

 

I am writing to you today to ask that you add your name to H. R. 1207 - Federal Reserve Transparency Act of 2009 that is currently being sponsored by 39 of your fellow Congressmen. I would strongly encourage you to co-sponsor this bill as well, especially since the Federal Reserve is using at least a Trillion dollars of tax payers' money.

 

With the recent talk of regulation and oversight and how some of the federal agencies are not doing their jobs (example: the SEC and Bernie Maddoff) and how the mortgage lenders/borrowers got into the problems that they did, it only seems logical that the Federal Reserve be held at the same standards as other private firms, if not a higher one.

 

Please read the bill and then sign your name to it and allow the American Taxpayers and the people in your district see what the Federal Reserve does with all of that money.

 

Regards,

 

And btw, for all the Obama supporters-Obama himself called for Accountabily and Transparency-that is what this bill will do to the Fed! Obama should be supporting it himself if his messages are true.

[umbrena]

Aki, clear out your inbox messages, or log into EL

Please

[Neverman]

Pardon the interruption and I don't mean to undercut the valiant efforts of those who've posted here so far, but this might be a good time to point out that, from what I can tell, our money system is designed to fail. When a farmer has a pig, you be nice to it for a while, house it, feed it, then you kill it.

When our governments borrow money from the Feds...they charge interest. So, we borrow 10 bucks from the Fed, they say "ok, you owe us $10.50". How can we ever repay that debt when the extra $.50 can only come from them (again, with interest)?? The Federal Reserve Act of is a scam that was designed to enslave the entire population of the earth, passed in the US in 1913 thanks to President Woodrow Wilson, who later recanted said...

 

 

"We have, not one or two, but many, fields of endeavor into which it is difficult, if not impossible, for the independent man to enter. We have restricted credit, we have restricted opportunity, we have controlled development, and we have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men."

 

 

Lol their major selling point of having a Federal Reserve Bank (as opposed to the Greenback, which was the interest free currency, printed by the actual government, before these jokers arrived), was that it would provide stability in the market and the value of the dollar. So what happenned? The great depression, the current depression, all the other ups-and-downs in between, and the steady devaluation of the dollar. This has all happenned before, yet we refuse to see (Britain, Rome...).

 

Here's another quote from one of the GrandDaddys of the global monetary systems we all use...

"Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws."

~Mayer Amschel Rothschild

 

Sorry if I'm rambling, just seemed like a good time to expand people's knowledge of this issue of what money is.

 

And remember...the revolution is not being televised.

 

(There's a little bit on you-tube though, if you need somewhere to at least get started)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B04_9H7sGe0

Zeitgeist - Addendum (2+hr doc, or find the broken-down version (there's one in 12 parts, I think))

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXb-LrVkuwM

The Money Masters (a classic...part 1 of 22 lol)

 

 

~respect~

Edited March 26, 2009 by Neverman

[HereticEast]

i'm pretty sure that's not how it works. i know for a fact that the U.S borrows money from mostly china, other countries etc. if the government borrowed from the fed it would be borrowing money that it has already borrowed from mostly china and japan.

Edited March 26, 2009 by HereticEast

[FeaRM]

i'm pretty sure that's not how it works.

 

im pretty sure ur wrong. that IS how it works. The Fed acts as a central bank. It is the institution that is responsible for printing money in the US. But once the money is printed, the Fed doesn't just give it away to the government in order for it to be put into circulation, it loans it to them, at interest. Since they are the only institution that can produce money in the country, the only way the government can pay that loan is by borrowing more money from the Fed, again at an interest. This creates perpetual debt.

The debt that you are talking about that the US "owes" to China and other nations is something different. We're talking about US treasury securities here. These securities include bonds and treasury-notes that can be purchased by anyone, me, you any person in the world. China happens to have bought a lot of them, giving us money in the process. The thing is that if they decided to sell them back to us, we need to provide the money for them. Therefore u can say we owe China and other countries a lot of money. Although these securities are issued by the Fed, the money that is received for them goes to the Fed and in order for that money to enter the circulation, it has to be loaned out by the US government at an interest again....causing the same problem...perpetual debt.....which becomes the burden of the taxpayer in the end.

The thing you need to realize is that the Fed is not a governmental agency, it's a private institution. It treats the government the same way a bank treats its customers....if you want to borrow money, you need to pay it back with interest.

Edited March 26, 2009 by FeaRM

[HereticEast]

that's not right. the fed loans private banks money. profit from the interest goes back into the treasury. it's the government using it's own money. i mean really... if you put 1 million $ into an account in the bank and the bank used that money to loan to other banks and the profit from this was deposited back in your account would you say this bank was loaning you money?

[Entropy]

i'm pretty sure that's not how it works. i know for a fact that the U.S borrows money from mostly china, other countries etc. if the government borrowed from the fed it would be borrowing money that it has already borrowed from mostly china and japan.

 

LOL

Yes, the US government borrowed money from China, but recently they got sick to lend money to Barry, and they said so. Then what do you know, the Fed buys 300B worth of treasury bonds. I hope you realize that that's 100% printed money, money without absolutely any real value. So that pig Obama just put his big thief hand in every American's pocket and took 1000 bucks. Yes we can!

[Neverman]

Yes we can!

 

LoL...

 

 

but seriously...

that's not right. the fed loans private banks money. profit from the interest goes back into the treasury. it's the government using it's own money. i mean really... if you put 1 million $ into an account in the bank and the bank used that money to loan to other banks and the profit from this was deposited back in your account would you say this bank was loaning you money?

 

I won't be posting on this thread again. Too many years of this in RL & I'm tired. All I intended was to provide an alternative insight/explanation for those who might be seeking one.

For all you know I could be a crazy guy who lives in a cave and believes everything he sees on the internet, because my cave has power, and everything I wrote is naive and misleading. Same goes for the tiny sample of videos provided.

 

*goes back to his cave*

[Ateh]

Regarding the Federal Reserve , another enlightening online video to look up would be one by Aaron Russo made just before he died , you can see it here :

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173

 

Neverman , your not crazy at all your part of a growing phenomena of ordinary ( no offense ) people who are willing and able to do some research into the machinations of our world.

 

Zeitgeist is a good piece of work but I fear the beginning parts based around religion could put alot of people off the information presented in the later parts. For some, its frightening to even begin to question thier belief system in such a fundamental way, it goes against everything they need to believe to keep thier level of sane happening.

 

For me the issue of the Fed Reserve is one strand of a far more complex problem that faces this world, that being we have been lied to at every turn for centurys and centurys regarding the systems of control ( be they monetary / spiritual / historical ) that exist as the status quo.

 

However we have been born into an age where alternative information is available for those who wish to seek it, and for that I believe we are the luckiest people to have ever lived on the earth, albeit born into troubled times indeed. We have the ability to inform ourselves at a level unseen in recorded history.

 

The one thing to remember as this giant fairy tale unfolds before our eyes is to fight with information, not violence. The same shadows that put the Fed Reserve into place would love an excuse to kill off a few billion people who took to the streets to riot.

 

So Neverman, if your crazy then I am crazy too, and im crazy enough to believe that one day we will stand and watch as everything humanity has taken for granted is slowly re assesed and put right.

 

As a wise man once said '' “All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as being self-evident.”

 

 

*edit* ive been informed the Zeitgeist film posted here is actually a new version which doesnt include the old beginning parts based on religion

Edited March 27, 2009 by Ateh

[FeaRM]

that's not right.

 

Nah, i'm pretty sure it's right

 

the fed loans private banks money. profit from the interest goes back into the treasury. it's the government using it's own money.

 

That's not right. Profit from those loans go back to the Fed. The Fed doesn't just give the US government money for free, it loans it to them....the Fed prints the money, loans it to the US gov......it never was and it will never be the government's money....What you are saying only happens in countries where the central bank is owned by the government (India for example). The US is not one of those countries....

 

i mean really... if you put 1 million $ into an account in the bank and the bank used that money to loan to other banks and the profit from this was deposited back in your account would you say this bank was loaning you money?

 

WTF? did u read any of my post? I guess you skipped the parts where I said the Fed prints the money...and the part where I said the Fed is a private institution that isn't part of the government.....and the part saying that the Fed treats the government the same way a bank treats its customers.....selective reading ftl? So wait, what you're saying is that the government prints its own money...gives it to the fed and then the fed lends it to banks at an interest. the interest comes back to the government and the fed is just a middle man? are u retarded? About every single part of that statement is wrong......ive explained it to u already....here i'll break it down in two easy point u can't miss:

a. Fed prints the money and uses it like any other bank would do

b. Fed =/= US gov, it's not part of the government or owned by the government, it's a private institution, just like ur local bank. Ur statement is the equivalent of saying that McDonalds and Nike are owned by the government and all the profits they make go back to the government.....

So I got a little exercise for you now, i'll break it down into points since I have a feeling it helps u out:

1. Go back to the beginning of this thread and read every single post in its entirety (except for urs of course, its full of shit false information)

2. Go do some research, read some articles from some trusted sources, etc

3. Come back here and agree with me

 

kk? tks

 

Small note just to get back on topic, I think HR 1207 is a great idea. Although I'm not a huge Ron Paul supporter, I commend him for pushing this bill through and I do hope that it gets passed. If you think that a private institution shouldn't have full control of the money supply without being held accountable, then like Ateh said, you should probably contact your representative and tell them to support this bill

Edited March 26, 2009 by FeaRM

[HereticEast]

i believe this is check and mate.

 

http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/FRS-myth.htm#hd7

 

OWNING GOVERNMENT DEBT

 

It is frequently argued that the Fed is the reason for the government's debt. The argument usually is that, if it were not for the Fed, the government could have issued money itself directly from the Treasury, and would not have had to borrow; it then would not have had to pay interest. Sometimes it is implied that the only reason the Treasury issues securities is so that the Fed and its member banks can earn interest. Some commentators appear to believe that all Treasury debt is owned by the Fed.

The Fed's holdings of securities and its transactions are almost always conducted in the securities of the U.S. government. But the Fed never buys or sells directly to or from the Treasury; it is prohibited from doing so. It always conducts its business with the public in the open market. When the government needs to borrow to finance its operations, the Treasury sells its bonds and bills either directly to the public or through so-called "primary dealers."

Edited March 26, 2009 by HereticEast

[Shujral]

It is frequently argued that the Fed is the reason for the government's debt. The argument usually is that, if it were not for the Fed, the government could have issued money itself directly from the Treasury, and would not have had to borrow; it then would not have had to pay interest. Sometimes it is implied that the only reason the Treasury issues securities is so that the Fed and its member banks can earn interest. Some commentators appear to believe that all Treasury debt is owned by the Fed.

 

I lol'd.

 

 

P.S. Quit while you're ahead not that far behind.

[HereticEast]

also 95% of interest earned by the fed is paid back into the treasury.

Edited March 26, 2009 by HereticEast

[FeaRM]

i believe this is check and mate.

 

http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/FRS-myth.htm#hd7

 

OWNING GOVERNMENT DEBT

 

It is frequently argued that the Fed is the reason for the government's debt. The argument usually is that, if it were not for the Fed, the government could have issued money itself directly from the Treasury, and would not have had to borrow; it then would not have had to pay interest. Sometimes it is implied that the only reason the Treasury issues securities is so that the Fed and its member banks can earn interest. Some commentators appear to believe that all Treasury debt is owned by the Fed.

The Fed's holdings of securities and its transactions are almost always conducted in the securities of the U.S. government. But the Fed never buys or sells directly to or from the Treasury; it is prohibited from doing so. It always conducts its business with the public in the open market. When the government needs to borrow to finance its operations, the Treasury sells its bonds and bills either directly to the public or through so-called "primary dealers."

 

U got to be fuckin kidding me......I tell you to go look at some trusted sources and you give me a link to the Dixieland Law Journal? did u even see their fuckin website? here it is, you go down the page from ur link and click home, ull get to this:

http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/

Oh im sorry that really looks legit. let me go create a website now, it will say that money is created by leprechauns locked up in some caves in Mt. Washington and that they chose who gets the money and who doesn't. Phear the leprechauns, they own our economy! I won't even bother replying to this joke anymore, you have fun arguing with yourself from now on

 

Edit: did u even check the disclaimer at the bottom of this dude's page? let alone that it's one guy who typed this while he was locked down in his mom's basement, he made sure to put this on:

"This website is purely a public resource of general information which is intended, but not promised or guaranteed, to be correct, complete, and up-to-date."

Edited March 26, 2009 by FeaRM

[HereticEast]

it is quoted from

 

Congressional Research Service Library of Congress

CRS Report for Congress, No. 96-672 E

[The_Piper]

I hope you realize that that's 100% printed money, money without absolutely any real value.

And here you are right so far.

So that pig Obama just put his big thief hand in every American's pocket and took 1000 bucks. Yes we can!

And here you are wrong. By printing FIAT money, you decrease the value of money in general. Which means, you decrease the value of your bank accounts AND, and thats the most important thing, you decrease the value of your debts too.

 

Printing more and more FIAT money is a good way to get rid of your debts. If you dont have any, well, bad luck for you, then just your savings go down the edge, but if you're a government, this is a smart way to get rid of your debts in a peaceful way.

 

And thats whats going on right now in the states.

 

Happy will be those, who used dollars to buy real valuables, like gold, silver, houses, gems and such.

 

Their debts will go down with the huge amounts of new printed dollars, but their values like gold and silver will stay.

 

Piper

[HereticEast]

in regards to fiat money i agree with this guy's argument:

 

http://www.econ.ucla.edu/workingpapers/wp830.pdf

[The_Piper]

Hmm.......

 

so fiat money is backed with something, interesting idea.

 

But thats not fiat money, thats currant money, money which has a value, like the gold of a gold coin or such.

 

I am not going to read that whole article, its a fail IMO.

 

Piper

[HereticEast]

well what you said is fail because printing more and more money is a one way ticket to hyperinflation. the fed is not currently printing more and more money for this very reason.

[Entropy]

well what you said is fail because printing more and more money is a one way ticket to hyperinflation. the fed is not currently printing more and more money for this very reason.

Are you serious?

 

Printing more and more FIAT money is a good way to get rid of your debts. If you dont have any, well, bad luck for you, then just your savings go down the edge, but if you're a government, this is a smart way to get rid of your debts in a peaceful way.

 

There are a few problems with this:

1. Not everyone has debts, some people actually have savings. Think about the older people who typically own their homes (they finished paying for the mortgage), and have money saved up for retirement.

2. This will only teach people to borrow even more and save less, because those who borrow are rewarded, and those who save are punished (especially at the interest rates we have now).

3. Foreign countries (China) that used to lend money to the US are not likely to do it ever again, if they get back shit. In fact, China and Russia are already pushing for a world currency, and sooner or later this will happen.

[elric67]

I am not a fan of Mr Paul However I respect some of his views, he has some other legislation in progress and a senator has submitted legislation by the same name in the senate, whether you are for or against here is address to get updated info on the Transperancy Bill http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-1207

(Please forgive if i screw up the link, first time trying to insert link) From this site there is a link to section 714 of title 31, United States Code which is to be changed by the proposed bill.

 

I do not support this bill, because the comptroller general has outlined in fiscal yr 2007 report submitted in June 2008, 3 major point interfering with auditing the Federal Gov. #1 on his list is the Department of Defense. Here is a link to GAO info http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d08847t.pdf this is a lengthy read some 45 pages long. But three areas of concern are listed on the first page. I firmly believe the Federal Gov has its fingers in enough private industry, and should turn its attention cleaning up his its own house first. I say this because the federal reserve is not a strictly a governmental entity and some of the infomation protected by the current section 714 of title 31 could be misused if released incorrectly. I also do not support the current idea in congress to expand The Federal reserves power to seize businesses.

 

On the Fed, it is big, ugly, for profit beasty but it ours. It is quasi-public entity, privately owned banks (12) ruled by a board of governers, chosen by the president of the united states and comfirmed by the senate. It makes lots of money, mostly for the owners of the banks in question. It works, because it is privately held with a purpose to make money, but to do this it regulates our market, a good market makes money, a bad market does not, so fed tries to maintain a good market. I know it did not work out so well, but there is difference between failing to control a problem and being the cause of a problem. Our market is screwed not because of the fed reserve but despite it. Deregulation by our congress got us to this point, by allowing unregulated greed in the finacial backrooms and unregulated lobbyist that whisper louder than voters in the ears of congress.

 

As for slaying the beast, i do support this as long as there is a method to regulate our market to replace it. If you look at the history prior to the the federal reserve act of 1913, you will see starting in 1791 first and second bank of the united states (1791-1811, and 1816-1836), free banking era (1837-1862), and national banks (1863-1913). Throughout this period the common thread is a bank run or depression about every 20 twenty years. The federal reserve broke this cycle, with some changes following the 1929 depression. Until a viable option is found i would rather deal with the devil I know than go through a depression, then watch my kids go through a depression and then their kids go through a depression ad infinitum.

 

Ty for your time if you managed to get this far, now my disclaimers I know only 2 languages, bad english and worse

[Entropy]

Well, I am sure the Fed did some good things, but the fact is, the Fed woldn't be needed if we had a REAL currency, and no fractional reserve bullshit.

You can't have a sound economy based on FIAT money. Your money is never safe, because you have no clue when the Fed is going to print more or change the interest rates. The fact that the whole world uses the USD as a global currency totally defies reason and common sense.

[Ateh]

However , if your end goal was to make the worlds economic system fall into chaos so that you could offer a solution of say a ONE WORLD currency then it makes perfect sense that those in the know would engineer the worlds financial system so that it could be brought to its knees based upon the value of one single currency

 

As allready stated , Russia & China and also France and Britain along with our old buddys the U.N have called for a new world currency.

 

The irony is this isnt a new idea its been floating around openly in the New World Order brigade for decades.

 

Did you not see Kissinger / Clinton / Rham Emanuel all basically say the same thing recently which was '' never let a good crisis go to waste ''

 

By this they mean never walk away from a crisis without concentrating more power in the hands of the few.

 

Over regulation is an under statement its what these boys and girls have been engineering for along time theyre not interested in the current system staying in place as they know it cannot be sustained in the long run.

 

You dont have to go many days now without hearing it all over the press and the T.V , next time you hear one of your puppets say the words '' New World Order '' or '' New Global Order'' or ''Global New Deal '' just type it into google .............

 

1. One world currency centrally dictated by the elite bankers ( your Rothschilds / J.P Morgans / Rockefellers )

 

2. The end of the Cash System , replaced by a chip that stores your financial / health / legal / passport information electronically. If you dont have a chip , you dont exist ......

 

3. One World Army , if your not with the One World Brigade your obviously some sort of TERRORIST

 

4. Regional Federal governments replacing national sovereignty. Theyre talking North American Union ( america , canada . mexico ) European Union ( already in place ) , Pacific Union , African Union ...... all these would answer to one un elected Central power ruled by banking and corperate elite. Much like Wall Street and Haliburton taking office but out in the open finally and not under the disguise of elections by the people for the people to fk the people

 

Oh and I forgot the part about reducing the worlds population by about five billion so as leaving a handful of dumb workers as George Carlin said

 

'' just smart enough to push the button in the factory but not clever enough to question why ''

Edited March 27, 2009 by Ateh