Manufacturing strike!

[Misery_Machine]

Well holar, i have to agree with you.

 

i was up to top 3 manu, and decided to stop working on it... now i think i am 10th or 11th... because i dont care about lvling anymore

 

 

I WILL mix for ings provided, but i rarely ever make swords and armour for anyone outside my guild with my ings, i just cant stand loosing 10k+ per item...

 

i have made hundreds fo manu items and have only ever made 2 rare items, titanium cuisses of cooldown removal, and the titanium greaves. no special swords....

[conavar]

Hmmmm thanks for the answers

 

So even with the price increase (which might mean potential lower sales aswell) manuers still make a loss at 28k and maybe break even at 30k .

 

So honestly why dont manuers collect their own ings sell at 22k (and not lose sales) and make a 5k profit ?

 

Is the refusal to do this laziness or stupidity or both ? (or greed if ppl do collect their own ings and still want to sell for 28k).

 

The potential to make a nice profit is there without hiking up prices and still making a loss

 

Common sense has left the building

 

 

Hopefully someone will see the gap in the market, get their own ings, sell for 22-23k and make a shit load of GC.

 

 

Note:

 

While this thread points outs that everyone agree's that everyone should make a porfit, maybe those of us who buy items from the EL shop to support the game and build Radu's castle, rather that line the pockets of Gc farmers, need to re-think our prices.

 

With a 1$ = 7k GC atm we are making a loss on every item we bring into the game

So maybe since everyone deserves to make a profit we should all adjust those prices ( Im sure all the bots owners will agree and change their prices to suit)

 

So EFE,Bindings,Serps we sell should be 12-14k, and Rostos 28k to make the profit we all deserve

[nathanstenzel]

steel longs cost 600 each because steel bars cost.....wait.....50*12=600 ....+35*2=670.....+5*3.5=about 688gc....so those steel long prices are probably either an old price or based on mixing at a mining site where work can be a little more efficient.

 

practicing other skills than manufacturing helps sometimes:

Steel longs are 600 (and below), because Ogres drop them frequently.

Thats exactly the reason why wolframite is rare, because noone manus steel longs for the harvesting. (See my post above)

 

And could you tell me how long it takes to get 20 steel longs as drops ?

I would not doubt it if he paid for it in broken armor, lost gear and used essences and potions. I also doubt that he gets them very frequently.

 

Holar, thank you for the recap. That really helped to get the point across. I have to wonder if he neglected to read your original post.

Edited March 4, 2009 by nathanstenzel

[Pillgrim]

With your logic... why dont some fighters get ings, or even make their own armors instead of crying about higher prices? If manufacturers should be miners and alchers too, why dont other professions should? (im 104 alch level if that matters for u) Ive chosen blacksmith prof to make armors/weapons, not to spend life in undergrounds. Just like u've chosen fighter prof, not to make your own rings/essies/gear. Am i wrong?

 

Btw i buy most of my EFEs/wolfram bars FROM fighters, and im paying them more then i used to few months or year ago. Do u think they are willing to pay more for the swords that are made from those ings? Answer is - 90% of them dont.

[conavar]

With your logic... why dont some fighters get ings, or even make their own armors instead of crying about higher prices? If manufacturers should be miners and alchers too, why dont other professions should? (im 104 alch level if that matters for u) Ive chosen blacksmith prof to make armors/weapons, not to spend life in undergrounds. Just like u've chosen fighter prof, not to make your own rings/essies/gear. Am i wrong?

 

Lol alot of fighters are also potters and alchers if you didnt know, more so now with the increased prices Vs lower Gc drops

 

It wasnt ment to be a flame btw it was a question (hence the question mark) I am just totally gobsmacked as to why you dont want to make a nice profit which might involve a little work.

The profit is there to be taken, wether you choose to or not is no one elses fault but your own no ? and then moaning that you dont make a profit (when you easily can) is pretty stupid imo

Edited March 4, 2009 by conavar

[nathanstenzel]

Hmmmm thanks for the answers

 

So even with the price increase (which might mean potential lower sales aswell) manuers still make a loss at 28k and maybe break even at 30k .

 

So honestly why dont manuers collect their own ings sell at 22k (and not lose sales) and make a 5k profit ?

 

Is the refusal to do this laziness or stupidity or both ? (or greed if ppl do collect their own ings and still want to sell for 28k).

 

The potential to make a nice profit is there without hiking up prices and still making a loss

 

Common sense has left the building

Are you looking at the great sword price? 22K = 5K+5K+7K + .....a measily 5K where that measily 5K is for 12K worth of steel longs and the minor ingreds and the risk to our precious saving stones (or the risk of total and utter loss).

 

We would have to produce the steel long required for the wolfram bars required for the great swords for.....230gc each in order to call 22K breaking even.

 

<CLIP>

Btw i buy most of my EFEs/wolfram bars FROM fighters, and im paying them more then i used to few months or year ago. Do u think they are willing to pay more for the swords that are made from those ings? Answer is - 90% of them dont.

Heh. Nice point. Maybe it is the harvesters and the fighters that are greedy and manufacturers are just tired of getting caught in the middle. I wonder if anyone has put it like that in this long long thread.

Edited March 4, 2009 by nathanstenzel

[nathanstenzel]

It wasnt ment to be a flame btw it was a question (hence the question mark) I am just totally gobsmacked as to why you dont want to make a nice profit which might involve a little work.

The profit is there to be taken, wether you choose to or not is no one elses fault but your own no ? and then moaning that you dont make a profit (when you easily can) is pretty stupid imo

Making 20 steel longs is alot of work....not a little and I think selling the ore and FE to the npcs would be a profit compared to 230gc per steel long ingred set.

If we wanted to make a profit, we wouldn't ever make anyone any great sword for less than 30K and would just make simple swords instead and laugh at everyone that insists otherwise. In fact, I already do this. I rarely make great swords and when I do, I charge over 30K worth of items/ingreds. If it is another undervalued item that fighters are not willing to pay enough for, so be it. I won't pay for your fighting pleasure though. Sorry. (hangs the "we have the right to refuse service to anyone" sign.

[conavar]

Are you looking at the great sword price? 22K = 5K+5K+7K + .....a measily 5K where that measily 5K is for 12K worth of steel longs and the minor ingreds and the risk to our precious saving stones (or the risk of total and utter loss).

 

We would have to produce the steel long required for the wolfram bars required for the great swords for.....230gc each in order to call 22K breaking even.

 

Hmm nope you would "being a manuer" make the steel longs yourself, and that measily 5k is more than you are getting now even with increased price

 

I won't pay for your fighting pleasure though

 

But you expect the fighters to pay for your laziness (not aimed at you directly) good luck with it is all i can say

 

Anyhow off to make "strike thread" that us shop buyers should increase our prices inline with the GC farmers exchange rate, so we make a profit

Edited March 4, 2009 by conavar

[Pillgrim]

Conavar: little work, right? Did u ever collect ings for titanium set for example? Instead of whining at higher prices make your own armor, so all drops u get will be clear profit, and u wont have any costs. Cause i can see time isnt a cost for you. How about little work and collecting own ings for your new titanium set, ill mix it for free with pleasure, and u will save 150kgc. Doesnt matter that u will spend week or more mining ings, time is free.

 

 

IM NOT forcing u to buy at my prices. NOT forcing anyone to do that. IM NOT asking for any forced "improvements". I just stated, like Holar did, that i WONT be selling items anymore at so big loss. So hard to understand for some of you?

 

PS. yeah, 104 alch just proves my lazines... What are your levels or harv/alch or so?

Edited March 4, 2009 by Pillgrim

[groomsh]

@Conavar: just to compare what you need to fight monsters and what a manuer needs to make ONE sword:

 

1. Harvest									   1. Harvest
960 red snapdragons							 2000 silver ore
960 red roses								   1000 chrysanthemums
960 sulfur									   250 blue quartz
  8 titanium ore								 500 blue star flowers
  2208 iron ore
  1328 coal
 20 wolframite ore

2. Buy										   2. Buy
  2 serpent stones							   250 empty vials
  1 binding stone								250 wine
100 feasting potions							 210 feasting potions

3. Mix										   3. Mix
960 fire essences								1000 health essences
241 steel bars									250 SRs
 40 iron bars
  1 titanium bar
  2 wolfram bars
 20 steel long swords

4. Enjoy mixing ONE sword						4. Enjoy fighting 250 monsters
												(with 1 restore per monster)

 

Do you still think it's just little more work ?

[conavar]

PS. yeah, 104 alch just proves my lazines... What are your levels or harv/alch or so?

 

 

80/85 btw, not bad for someone who spends 90% of the time a/d training , so yes fighters do make their own Essies and more than likely be higher alch than you if i didnt train a/d... but point ?

 

@ Groomsh

 

I didnt compare it to fighting but since you did... you should can make you 5k profit, be very lucky to make 5k on 250 mobs that i train (last 10 Mcw drops have been 12 gc or less)

Edited March 4, 2009 by conavar

[groomsh]

I didnt compare it to fighting but since you did... you should can make you 5k profit, be very lucky to make 5k on 250 mobs that i train (last 10 Mcw drops have been 12 gc or less)

 

Don't count mobs you train on...

Count those you farm gc on. Nobody makes great swords for manu exp...

[Wizzy]

I really cant understand why everyone is complaining so much

 

How many top fighters can afford to buy 2-3 nexus stones/ week, buying hydro bars like they are out of style, but they moan and gripe about a few k more for a sword. I just dont get it. These are the same fighters who have driven up cost of an nmt to 400k+ when they used to be 250k. SO inflation and demand works great when your yetis are dropping nmt.s but 5k more for a sword to serp the things is a "oh my god market ruined, ebul manuers greedy bastards"

 

give me a break pls

[nathanstenzel]

Are you looking at the great sword price? 22K = 5K+5K+7K + .....a measily 5K where that measily 5K is for 12K worth of steel longs and the minor ingreds and the risk to our precious saving stones (or the risk of total and utter loss).

 

We would have to produce the steel long required for the wolfram bars required for the great swords for.....230gc each in order to call 22K breaking even.

 

Hmm nope you would "being a manuer" make the steel longs yourself, and that measily 5k is more than you are getting now even with increased price

<CLIP>

 

Ok. That 230gc per steel long that I would get making a great sword for you......out of the question. Trik pays 400gc and everyone calls him a thief. I guess that makes you one too.

[Cruella]

I do not keep anyone's side in this discussion, I was saying something about exp to manuers, so now it's time to say pretty much the same to Conavar

 

Why do you want to make a profit from training? Does a manuer makes any profit while burning lether helms in manu school ? Want a profit, go for yeti. Just FYI (I'm way worse fighter than you are), with a bit of luck I make 7-10 kgc per hour of fighting (not getting great exp of course) regularily if only I want to.

 

I repeat:

 

No one has such comfort that they can do what pleases them, brings shitload of exp and plenty of gc's in the same time

 

but it seems all keep whining about that.

 

There is solution for that - start ranging! When you come back to your current skill you'll be happy with exp and income it gives, I assure you lol

[Jaclaw]

yetis drop suck

[conavar]

I didnt compare it to fighting but since you did... you should can make you 5k profit, be very lucky to make 5k on 250 mobs that i train (last 10 Mcw drops have been 12 gc or less)

 

Don't count mobs you train on...

Count those you farm gc on. Nobody makes great swords for manu exp...

 

I dont farm GC (and if i did, then you would have to compare my farming mob to an s2e, they both lower down the scale), Im ebul IRL rich shop buyer , If it came to buying great swords for 30k then I would, I was just baffled by the logic on this thread

 

That logic being increasing prices and still making a loss Vs collecting you own stuff and making a profit at lower prices , just baffled me tbh.

 

 

@ Cruella

 

Plz point out where I said i wanted to make a profit from training ? Im happy to take a loss for something I enjoy doing, same for PK and invasions = no profit (unless lucky in invasion) but fun

Edited March 4, 2009 by conavar

[Boedha]

I really cant understand why everyone is complaining so much

 

How many top fighters can afford to buy 2-3 nexus stones/ week, buying hydro bars like they are out of style, but they moan and gripe about a few k more for a sword. I just dont get it. These are the same fighters who have driven up cost of an nmt to 400k+ when they used to be 250k. SO inflation and demand works great when your yetis are dropping nmt.s but 5k more for a sword to serp the things is a "oh my god market ruined, ebul manuers greedy bastards"

 

give me a break pls

 

most top fighters buy gc from mixers or harvers, been said before so please get a clue before you post

[groomsh]

That logic being increasing prices and still making a loss Vs collecting you own stuff and making a profit at lower prices , just baffled me tbh.

 

You don't get the problem then.

I'd like to enjoy my favourite skill most of the time i play - same way like you do...

That's WHY i buy ingreds.

If i would have to harvest all ingreds by myself, it would be 2 hours harving/alching to make one sword. Maybe this gives more logic ?

[Wizzy]

I really cant understand why everyone is complaining so much

 

How many top fighters can afford to buy 2-3 nexus stones/ week, buying hydro bars like they are out of style, but they moan and gripe about a few k more for a sword. I just dont get it. These are the same fighters who have driven up cost of an nmt to 400k+ when they used to be 250k. SO inflation and demand works great when your yetis are dropping nmt.s but 5k more for a sword to serp the things is a "oh my god market ruined, ebul manuers greedy bastards"

 

give me a break pls

 

most top fighters buy gc from mixers or harvers, been said before so please get a clue before you post

 

Then if you have so many bloody gc's sell your nmt's to noobs for 250k oki

 

Of course some top fighters buy gc's from mixers.

 

Ummm Dont remember asgnny every buying gc's

Ummm Dont remember Masterpiter buying gc's (though pls correct meh if I r wrong)

There are others that have made the ranks without buying gc's. This thread is not about buying gc's. Its about buying your swords at a price that more closely represents the cost of ingredients.

 

Some items are leveling items, IP rings for example

FE for another example.

 

Jagged sabers are not a leveling item so 28k til the price of serp stones, binding stones, efe's etc change

 

UpayUok!

[Cruella]

@ Cruella

 

Plz point out where I said i wanted to make a profit from training ? Im happy to take a loss for something I enjoy doing, same for PK and invasions = no profit (unless lucky in invasion) but fun

 

KK, you have just mentioned that drops from training creatures were very low (I assumed you find them not satysfying).

[conavar]

That logic being increasing prices and still making a loss Vs collecting you own stuff and making a profit at lower prices , just baffled me tbh.

 

You don't get the problem then.

I'd like to enjoy my favourite skill most of the time i play - same way like you do...

That's WHY i buy ingreds.

If i would have to harvest all ingreds by myself, it would be 2 hours harving/alching to make one sword. Maybe this gives more logic ?

 

yes true but you cant expect a great profit if any by doing so , if I buy all my srs/he's then im lucky to make a profit, unless i serp fluffs etc which is the same as you moving down to s2e's

 

Maybe thinking about it... the xp for great swords etc should be increased 5 fold or something ?

 

edit:

 

KK, you have just mentioned that drops from training creatures were very low (I assumed you find them not satysfying).

 

Do any of us find them satisfying ? but you learn to live it , I resigned myself a long time ago to the fact that im unlucky with drops, lol i can kill a giant and get 10 gc

 

But its what I enjoy doing and imo cant put a price on fun (same as you and ranging I guess) which is why if need be I will pay increased prices for items, and despite my posts which may seem like moaning but they wernt . I was just trying to grasp the logic of the action (in my overly sarky way at times )

Edited March 4, 2009 by conavar

[groomsh]

Maybe thinking about it... the xp for great swords etc should be increased 5 fold or something ?

Yes, that could work, but imho it's easier to try to change the price of ingreds/final items then the exp

[conavar]

Maybe thinking about it... the xp for great swords etc should be increased 5 fold or something ?

Yes, that could work, but imho it's easier to try to change the price of ingreds/final items then the exp

 

I didnt mean increase xp and leave ings price etc the same.. they should come down aswell ofc but increased xp would help as well i bet

[Pyewacket]

Yes, that could work, but imho it's easier to try to change the price of ingreds/final items then the exp

 

 

Current:

Ings cost > end produce price = This situation

 

Ideal:

Ings cost < end produce price = Happy Manuers producing Items on which to profit GC as well as Exp

 

Reality

Ings cost < end produce price = People wanting end produce buy Ings instead or end produce and get friends/mates/guildies to make them (if they cant themselves) either for free or a small fee = Manuers not selling quite as much as they'd hoped since theyre now competing with everyone to buy the Ings = Increase in demand for Ings = Back to Square One when people start offering more gc then their competitors for the Ings and making price of Ings rise.

 

And thanks Cruella for making it appear my setting Passions selling price seem like I am a moneygrabbing ebul profit err grabber type person.

 

I am sure theres enough folks around that should know by now I dont really care about GC all that much. If I did, I dont think I'd be daft enough to hand out free stoof teh way I have been doing over teh years. And trust me, it ISNT because I have so much GC i can afford to give it away hand over fist and still have piles left. I rarely have large amounts of GC for very long, it doesn't feel right letting it sit in my storage.