Manufacturing strike!

[groomsh]

I'm definitely with Holar on this.

[Zamirah]

Maybe part of the problem is too many can make the high level items.

I'm #35 and I can make everything but black/ice dragon set - maybe I could if I would read the books

 

I'm not trying to level, got several levels because I made s2es for the 20 nexus I bought and only made armor/weapon for own use.

 

But I think the 34 higher levels might all make for sale and it's a lot.

The number of players who use this items are limited and as far as I can see, are many players new to the game and might not be able to pay for the expensive items.

[conavar]

Radu said that he is going to double the break chance for great swords.

 

Isnt that going to cause inflation and not help the problem ?

 

If Player A now has to spend 28k on a JS and in theory buy more if they break more often, then he/she will sell his items to Player B for more gc to compensate, Player B will then do the same etc etc etc etc, until you reach the point of good luck making a profit once again on a sword even at 28k .

 

The root problem isnt the fact the great swords are to cheap atm, its the fact that the ings are to expensive and sadly ppl have been willing to pay that expensive in the hope of making a rare item, which has knackered it up for everyone else.

 

manuers should all get together and not increase the end product price. but by refusing to pay over the top for the ings. As I mentioned earlier, if you dont stand together against the inflation in price of the ings, then a stage will be reached when the ings will cost more than a sword from an NPC .

 

Raising the finished items prices is kinda shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted

 

and the chance to make rare should be greatly lowered so spamming 1k swords/armour etc to make one isnt worthwhile

Edited March 1, 2009 by conavar

[Affliction]

Well maybe the dragon armor's recommended level should be reconsidered.

 

Make people have to really train to get to them instead of it just being in the normal line of things. only 2 or 4 levels above the last thing you learned to make.

 

change it so that only top 15% of current manuers would have the recommended level for them. whatever that level would be. im not sure.

 

and then for the great swords.. same concept. spread out the required levels for making them. lower the number of people in game who can actually make them..

 

people could still train manu to make s2e swords and other basic swords and armors. but maybe titanium-dragon armors and great swords should be alot harder to make and get?

 

 

and i know this wont solve the problem stated.. but would help in my opinion. fewer people that can make a certain item means less people trying to undersell you for it .

[Jayim_Duinara]

Radu said that he is going to double the break chance for great swords.

 

Isnt that going to cause inflation and not help the problem ?

 

If Player A now has to spend 28k on a JS and in theory buy more if they break more often, then he/she will sell his items to Player B for more gc to compensate, Player B will then do the same etc etc etc etc, until you reach the point of good luck making a profit once again on a sword even at 28k .

 

The root problem isnt the fact the great swords are to cheap atm, its the fact that the ings are to expensive and sadly ppl have been willing to pay that expensive in the hope of making a rare item, which has knackered it up for everyone else.

 

manuers should all get together and not increase the end product price. but by refusing to pay over the top for the ings

 

and the chance to make rare should be greatly lowered so spamming 1k swords/armour etc to make one isnt worthwhile

 

 

The demand for rare ings (EFEs and whatnot) is what sets the price for those items. People only make a few by chance, if they want more they have to buy them from the shop. Radu sets the rate at which rare ings enters the game. Therefore the cost of ings for high level items is not controlled by the players nearly as much as the price they charge for what they mix. You need ings or you cannot mix. Once you have mixed you need to sell. What you sell for should be determined by what it cost you to make.

[Shadow_runner]

And Pepa? Yea I pay just 20kgc by PEPA for steel greaves as couple of other bots do - Minerva, UnitGirl, Warmart. Some of them are even cheaper Miria 19kgc, Pound 18kgc. And I will keep the price. If I increase the price to 24kgc I would buy more products than I sell. It could be ok for somebody but it is a problem for me, I will be just a trader and no manuer anymore...

 

And here lies the biggest problem of all. Our famous striker want 'other' people to pay the cost price and make a profit. But he doesn't want to do it 'himself'. IE wants to sell those steel greaves for cost plus but doesn't want to buy them for that. He still wants the undercut price.

 

Those who support this 'joker' should now withdrawn it.

[Vanyel]

There was a similar thread 2 years (or so) ago. The idea got some really huge support, but then everybody kept selling stuff below reasonable prices not to stay too far behind other manuers. :shrugs:

Good luck with it.

 

I'm not selling anything to anybody. All I do is either for my needs or for my friends. The only way not to score any loss.

[Jayim_Duinara]

And Pepa? Yea I pay just 20kgc by PEPA for steel greaves as couple of other bots do - Minerva, UnitGirl, Warmart. Some of them are even cheaper Miria 19kgc, Pound 18kgc. And I will keep the price. If I increase the price to 24kgc I would buy more products than I sell. It could be ok for somebody but it is a problem for me, I will be just a trader and no manuer anymore...

 

And here lies the biggest problem of all. Our famous striker want 'other' people to pay the cost price and make a profit. But he doesn't want to do it 'himself'. IE wants to sell those steel greaves for cost plus but doesn't want to buy them for that. He still wants the undercut price.

 

Those who support this 'joker' should now withdrawn it.

 

Uhm, the guy you are talking about MAKES most of the stuff he sells, from what I understand. The low buy price is probably to reduce his "selling on consignment" deals. Why should he hurt his own business by selling other people's stuff?

 

Jayim_Duinara

Member of Ozú!

[asgnny]

And Pepa? Yea I pay just 20kgc by PEPA for steel greaves as couple of other bots do - Minerva, UnitGirl, Warmart. Some of them are even cheaper Miria 19kgc, Pound 18kgc. And I will keep the price. If I increase the price to 24kgc I would buy more products than I sell. It could be ok for somebody but it is a problem for me, I will be just a trader and no manuer anymore...

 

And here lies the biggest problem of all. Our famous striker want 'other' people to pay the cost price and make a profit. But he doesn't want to do it 'himself'. IE wants to sell those steel greaves for cost plus but doesn't want to buy them for that. He still wants the undercut price.

 

Those who support this 'joker' should now withdrawn it.

 

Or maybe he just doesn't want to spend 1M gc buying the excess steel greaves which have oversaturated the market. Why don't you throw together a few million gc and buy everything that's underpriced on market, then resell at the "new" higher prices? Easier said than done.

[Wizzy]

And Pepa? Yea I pay just 20kgc by PEPA for steel greaves as couple of other bots do - Minerva, UnitGirl, Warmart. Some of them are even cheaper Miria 19kgc, Pound 18kgc. And I will keep the price. If I increase the price to 24kgc I would buy more products than I sell. It could be ok for somebody but it is a problem for me, I will be just a trader and no manuer anymore...

 

And here lies the biggest problem of all. Our famous striker want 'other' people to pay the cost price and make a profit. But he doesn't want to do it 'himself'. IE wants to sell those steel greaves for cost plus but doesn't want to buy them for that. He still wants the undercut price.

 

Those who support this 'joker' should now withdrawn it.

 

Uhm, the guy you are talking about MAKES most of the stuff he sells, from what I understand. The low buy price is probably to reduce his "selling on consignment" deals. Why should he hurt his own business by selling other people's stuff?

 

Jayim_Duinara

Member of Ozú!

Exactly

[Jaclaw]

Yeah great increase price...increase break rate, but who is going to buy it ? Almost each update brings some reduction to monster drops, while price of essences, potions armor is rising. So

[qoute]

Radu said that he is going to double the break chance for great swords.

[/qoute]

Isn't really best idea.

[Learner]

And Pepa? Yea I pay just 20kgc by PEPA for steel greaves as couple of other bots do - Minerva, UnitGirl, Warmart. Some of them are even cheaper Miria 19kgc, Pound 18kgc. And I will keep the price. If I increase the price to 24kgc I would buy more products than I sell. It could be ok for somebody but it is a problem for me, I will be just a trader and no manuer anymore...

 

And here lies the biggest problem of all. Our famous striker want 'other' people to pay the cost price and make a profit. But he doesn't want to do it 'himself'. IE wants to sell those steel greaves for cost plus but doesn't want to buy them for that. He still wants the undercut price.

 

Those who support this 'joker' should now withdrawn it.

 

Uhm, the guy you are talking about MAKES most of the stuff he sells, from what I understand. The low buy price is probably to reduce his "selling on consignment" deals. Why should he hurt his own business by selling other people's stuff?

 

Jayim_Duinara

Member of Ozú!

 

Because selling on consignment he can increase profits with a higher volume without the need for more EFE etc

[machevort]

Dunnow about other ppl, but for me its fairly simple: I aint gonna pay ingredient price for any armor or weapon that has a chance on a special worth 300K-1M gc.

 

If this strike works out, Ill grind some leather helmets (Im 57 manu ATM), and I bet with +8 bless I can at least satisfy the need of my guildies for undercut price. Ill prolly still make profit or play even.

 

IMHO AN (maybe not the current one, but at least AN) undercut price is fair. The special sword/armor value is ...still..... insane, and will remain that way with $$ ==> gc ppl doin PK.

[Khalai]

And Pepa? Yea I pay just 20kgc by PEPA for steel greaves as couple of other bots do - Minerva, UnitGirl, Warmart. Some of them are even cheaper Miria 19kgc, Pound 18kgc. And I will keep the price. If I increase the price to 24kgc I would buy more products than I sell. It could be ok for somebody but it is a problem for me, I will be just a trader and no manuer anymore...

 

And here lies the biggest problem of all. Our famous striker want 'other' people to pay the cost price and make a profit. But he doesn't want to do it 'himself'. IE wants to sell those steel greaves for cost plus but doesn't want to buy them for that. He still wants the undercut price.

 

Those who support this 'joker' should now withdrawn it.

 

What of the bolded part you did not understand? Did you thought about the thing, he would end up with all those undercutter's products? It's simply a prevention for oversupplying.

[popeye]

then there is no point in even bother to make such item.

Not true. I make stuff for my own use, for guildies or to give to Annatira for n00bs. I'm manu 19 and can make s2e's. These come in handy when I want hydro ore. If I misread your post, my apologies. One day I would like to make the rare stuff just 'cause I can.

Edited March 1, 2009 by popeye

[conavar]

The demand for rare ings (EFEs and whatnot) is what sets the price for those items. People only make a few by chance, if they want more they have to buy them from the shop. Radu sets the rate at which rare ings enters the game. Therefore the cost of ings for high level items is not controlled by the players nearly as much as the price they charge for what they mix. You need ings or you cannot mix. Once you have mixed you need to sell. What you sell for should be determined by what it cost you to make.

 

Yes but if the cost of Ings is to much then you dont mix that item (as wiser manuers than me have said, those items are not used to level the skill, so leveling the skill is still an option with items that make a profit)

 

The way things work now with people buying the ings regardless of cost and then increasing the product price, the price of ings will keep rising no ? That can only continue until the NPC price of items is reached then you are bolloxed .

 

Isnt it better to try and make a stand against the ings price as manuers now rather than when that "bolloxed" point is reached ?

 

 

 

*waits for "Radu can you increase NPC's prices plzzzzz cus we have been buying binding stones for 20k" thread*

Edited March 1, 2009 by conavar

[Jayim_Duinara]

Hello all,

 

Something to remember, I believe that radu didn't intend for great swords/dragon armours to be an "everybody" has them item. I'm not concerned about the price going to high. They were supposed to be slightly rare. Hence why he's trying to reduce the number of dragon scales in the game. A lot of these high level things don't affect me as I'm a comparative newb. I'm working to save ings for a set of Ice Dragon armour (yes, I have a reason and a need for a set) despite the fact that I'm not a fighter. But that's just it, I'm working for it. I don't expect it to be cheap or easy. We might have slipped into the "everyone deserves x" mindset on some things. So for the "it's going to cause inflation and ruin everything" argument, I don't believe it. If inflation on high level items happens, I think they'll go back to their original intent: rare.

 

Jayim_Duinara

Member of Ozú!

Edited March 1, 2009 by Jayim_Duinara

[Holar]

And Pepa? Yea I pay just 20kgc by PEPA for steel greaves as couple of other bots do - Minerva, UnitGirl, Warmart. Some of them are even cheaper Miria 19kgc, Pound 18kgc. And I will keep the price. If I increase the price to 24kgc I would buy more products than I sell. It could be ok for somebody but it is a problem for me, I will be just a trader and no manuer anymore...

 

And here lies the biggest problem of all. Our famous striker want 'other' people to pay the cost price and make a profit. But he doesn't want to do it 'himself'. IE wants to sell those steel greaves for cost plus but doesn't want to buy them for that. He still wants the undercut price.

 

Those who support this 'joker' should now withdrawn it.

 

OK, you are quite right. I explained why I could not pay more. Then I will just buy and sell. I will not produce it and it is not my aim. So Pepa does not buy armour/weapons anymore. I quit it and I do not joke.

 

I also set new prices of items and I am about to keep it whatever happend just following ingreds price.

 

Btw, why to lose 4kgc on steel greave and gain 700 basic manu experience? For the same 4kgc I can get at manu cave more than 14k exps without god and rationality... Of course I have no chance to make rare item then, but is it worth? In my own case, it is not...

[Wizzy]

The demand for rare ings (EFEs and whatnot) is what sets the price for those items. People only make a few by chance, if they want more they have to buy them from the shop. Radu sets the rate at which rare ings enters the game. Therefore the cost of ings for high level items is not controlled by the players nearly as much as the price they charge for what they mix. You need ings or you cannot mix. Once you have mixed you need to sell. What you sell for should be determined by what it cost you to make.

 

Yes but if the cost of Ings is to much then you dont mix that item (as wiser manuers than me have said, those items are not used to level the skill, so leveling the skill is still an option with items that make a profit)

 

The way things work now with people buying the ings regardless of cost and then increasing the product price, the price of ings will keep rising no ? That can only continue until the NPC price of items is reached then you are bolloxed .

 

Isnt it better to try and make a stand against the ings price as manuers now rather than when that "bolloxed" point is reached ?

 

 

 

*waits for "Radu can you increase NPC's prices plzzzzz cus we have been buying binding stones for 20k" thread*

 

The main problem I see, with the price of Bindings, efe, serp stones etc is the market is in a little state of flux at the moment, No drop KF is still fairly new.

I am guessing that in the past rostogols where the #1 item sold in eternal lands shop. Also we have been told on these forums that there are many many of these items in game that are either being Horded, or are in storages of people that dont play anymore. The rates for enriched stuff, stones are adjusted as needed by the game management. We (the players can not control this) also, many new items have been added that use these items, Universal hoods, dragon armors, Invasion meters the list goes on. The price of these items are not just influnaced by manuers, crafters, tailors, even engineers are all seeking these items, and of course summoners also.

 

The number of these items coming into game can be carefully controlled. What can not be controlled is the amount that reaches the Market. Makes these items that reach market very competitive.

 

What can be controlled by the players is not undercutting themselves building these items in the hopes for 1 rare.

I do agree the prices of the rare items has gotten a little bit crazy lately also.

[Boedha]

And Pepa? Yea I pay just 20kgc by PEPA for steel greaves as couple of other bots do - Minerva, UnitGirl, Warmart. Some of them are even cheaper Miria 19kgc, Pound 18kgc. And I will keep the price. If I increase the price to 24kgc I would buy more products than I sell. It could be ok for somebody but it is a problem for me, I will be just a trader and no manuer anymore...

 

And here lies the biggest problem of all. Our famous striker want 'other' people to pay the cost price and make a profit. But he doesn't want to do it 'himself'. IE wants to sell those steel greaves for cost plus but doesn't want to buy them for that. He still wants the undercut price.

 

Those who support this 'joker' should now withdrawn it.

 

What of the bolded part you did not understand? Did you thought about the thing, he would end up with all those undercutter's products? It's simply a prevention for oversupplying.

 

how so? he buys for undercut price to prevent ending up with more items bought then sold?

why not simply let the bot not buy it at all then?

 

kinda hypocrit to go on strike saying "im tired of this, i want higher prices for manu items, but hey, feel free to sell to my bot at undercut prices though while i resell and add +5k"

 

its like Jaclaw says, everytime items get more expensive, monster drops stay the same or get reduced.

example, rumour has it that Yeti are pro to make gc at. 7k gc an hour taking 107 Sr's and 350 HE's, thats around 4k gc of supply's leaving you with 3k gc profit at the end of the round...

you would have to train 10 hours (without restock time and waiting for spawn) on those things to be able to afford a great sword with those new prices.

faster to just harvest/find binding/enrichment stones and sell all that with some inflation.

 

most manuers here acting like they HAVE to buy those binding stones and EFE at those high prices, you are trying to fix a problem you create yourself by paying that much for those items.

preventing is better then fixing the problem, stop buying ingredients at high prices and prices will go down cause most sellers have no use for it and will get desperate trying to sell it

[Khalai]

then there is no point in even bother to make such item.

Not true. I make stuff for my own use, for guildies or to give to Annatira for n00bs. I'm manu 19 and can make s2e's. These come in handy when I want hydro ore. If I misread your post, my apologies. One day I would like to make the rare stuff just 'cause I can.

 

Well, you ripped that sentence of mine completely out of context. What I said was concering item which produces huge loss per single product.

[Cruella]

but simple truth is end product prices need re thinking due to ing costs these days

 

 

It's other way around - if a manuer thinks that a cost of ingredients will be higher than a price he can get for the final product, he should:

 

- refuse to pay that much for ingreds

- gather all or part of them personally to lower the cost

- if the above are not possible, stop making such product

 

No chance to win when supply is higher than demand. No chance to sell for a good price when demand for ingredients is higher than demand for final product.

 

Manuers should rethink what and how many they produce rather than force the market to absorb whatever they make at any price they ask.

 

The price of any item will raise only when there will be a shortage of such item on the market. There is no way around it. Saying "look, I have paid dearly for ings, made plenty, now you pay dearly for my products" is leading to nowhere, just my 2 cents.

[Ateh]

Yes there are probably too many end products in the game, but where would everyone be without thier full ti set and jagged saber ?

 

Some poor ****** has to make them , and it costs that person a loss in GC to do it, whats so difficult to understand that the losses are too much too often ?

 

Someone tell me exactly how many manuers are walking around with a stock of Rare Swords or Ubber Grvs or Plates of Freezing ?

 

And also show me other items in EL that require a seller to make a loss of 8-10k on an end product, and I'll show you other items that need price adjusting in line with rare ingredient costs.

 

I dont understand why people are so annoyed or confused at the prospect of SHOCK HORRROR having to actually pay what it costs to make something ?

[Shujral]

I wish you good luck, but it only takes one person to undermine this whole effort.

[Holar]

To have completely clear why I started this topics.

 

I do not claim. I do not think I am able to change EL economy just by myself at all. I do not ask lower EL shop prices of EFEs, Binds and others. I do not need any change in rare items. I do not cry about the system. I do not call for higher breaking rate of swords. I do not need increase recommended lvls for some items (I would appreciate it but I do not need it). I accept the game as it is. Some of mentioned ideas are nice and clever but it was not a reason to write this post.

 

I just say, in my point of view, it makes no sense to continue selling so deep under ingreds price, so i quit it.

 

I can survive without my ranking lvl and I will shake Pillgrims hand as first.

 

The only thing I really want is to explain to my customers why I did it. That I have serious reason to increase my prices and that I am not a thief.

 

It was a message. If any1 has the same feeling as me lets join my way doing it. It will help. Very slightly, with doubtable result but it could/should/might (as I hope) help. Imho, there is always better to give a try then just to complain. How does the golf players say it? Never up, never in...