DMan Report post Posted March 1, 2009 I agree with you Holar, market is completely unbalanced. Items should sell for their real value. \o/ No more underpricing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadow_runner Report post Posted March 1, 2009 IMO, if you guys want even a chance of doing this you need to do the following: 1) No more mass production. (More supply than demand is going to force the price down.) 2) Come up with a common price list for the costs of each part. Otherwise one manu might undercut another as they see that cost of the item differently. Good luck, your going to need it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Djinn Report post Posted March 1, 2009 Well i must say i'm not as good in manufacturing as you Holar but i totally agree!!! (i don't know how to quote but this one is from gildrain...) quote: pathetic and ridiculous. Go ahead with offering for higher prices, noone forced you to undercut during your whole manuer life you lead up to know, when you are #1. Holar you can't do it alone but i'll join you in the manuers strike!!! So no crap prices to be expected from me anymore either!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jajohn Report post Posted March 1, 2009 1) If I were a manuer,I would sell my swords at a higher price...I am not, so I only can wish you good luck 2) Gilrain did you even stop to think about what you wrote? did you read all that posts? because it looks like if you saw that the swords aren't going to be cheap and started whining... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Affliction Report post Posted March 1, 2009 Well. not like my little bit is going to help. but im all in for this Me Jizzy, manufacturing rank 197, will stop delivering goods, which are significantly under their ingredients price. So please consider my bots Euphrates and Xanadu not as extortionists but as a way how to try to get proper prices for proper goods. I implore on other producers to join the cause if they are also unsatisfied and do not wish to support this distorted policy any longer. I hope many others would make this pledge.. if everyone would decide together to make this decision then we could really make a change. and manuer's could have fairer prices all around. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pillgrim Report post Posted March 1, 2009 rank 2 in for this too. that means both me (Sheitan) and Luxe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SmurF Report post Posted March 1, 2009 With myself being ranked 7th in manu I fully support this idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ambrosius Report post Posted March 1, 2009 I remember about a year ago i never had any trouble finding supplies, many K's of essence on various bots. Same with armours and other stuff. Don't forget that a year ago KF was not a no drop map too Now that KF is a non-dropping map there has been a ton more PKing than ever before I think. Why would anyone want too sell their goods if they are dumping tons of essences, armors and potions into their PKing? I assume those ppl that PK more now, didn't sit on their asses back then doing nothing and used that time for training more - using essence and pots and breaking armours aswell. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ateh Report post Posted March 1, 2009 (edited) glad it has finally come from #1 manuer and so : all items sold by me in the future, be they great swords or armors , shall be sold at no less than current cost of ingredients really happy to see this thread , started levelling manu again ( I didnt know why ) this week for the first time in nearly a year , and now its clear why heading towards lvl 70 over the next month or so , and beyond that to -- so you have my support on this without reservation *edit* yay, I just hope the EL community isnt as back ass wards as I think when it comes to economy and actually comes together on this , but w/e Edited March 1, 2009 by Ateh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizzy Report post Posted March 1, 2009 Declaration:Me Holar, manufacturing rank 1, will stop deliver goods, which are significantly under their ingredients price pathetic and ridiculous. Go ahead with offering for higher prices, noone forced you to undercut during your whole manuer life you lead up to know, when you are #1. Lightlan is absolutely correct in that, manuers are the ones who are to blame, noone else. In every skill you pay for exp (or rare products), we covered that extensively in all the long economy threads. I am nearly sure, that most prices will go up a bit, but the reason for that is, that many many players have a huge amounts of gc in sto. That is also the reason for the fact that people can afford the luxury to not sell their essences, they just dont need the money from them now. I wish you good luck with your attempt to dominate the market, LMFAO. Gilrain PS: i have no problem to pay fair prices, but when someone offers cheaper, i'll buy from him. I dont think this is truely the case I remember serp stones selling on market for less then 1.5k each..iirc they where even 900 gc's each for a while efe used to sell for 3k Binding stones used to sell for 5k and under.. there was a time that at 22k/great sword the manuers made a slight profit. If they did most of the work themselves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cycloonx Report post Posted March 1, 2009 Inflation isn't the problem, deflation is... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cruella Report post Posted March 1, 2009 (edited) I agree fully that no one should be selling below the cost, with no profit. Saying that, dear top manuers, please stop paying ridiculous prices for efe's and bindings. That's you who have screwed up ingreds market, starting from steel bars, ending with efe's. You needed plenty to mass produce, you were buing in bulk, offering more and more and more every day. As effect, efe have raised from 6.5 to 7.5k, bindings from 6k to 8-9k and steel bars from 45 to 50-52 gc each. Moreover you were selling below cost, tonnes of non-rare goods. Please blame yourself now. Stop mass production, stop paying such high prices for ingreds, soon your production will become more profitable again. Why to sell steel greaves for 20kgc. If you say so Holar, why your bot Pepa is paying 20 kgc then ? Who do you expect to sell to Pepa ? Why to have 5k marging on buying/selling greaves on your bot? If you sell for 24.900, buy for 24.000 perhaps? Edited March 1, 2009 by Cruella Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zamirah Report post Posted March 1, 2009 I am nearly sure, that most prices will go up a bit, but the reason for that is, that many many players have a huge amounts of gc in sto. That is also the reason for the fact that people can afford the luxury to not sell their essences, they just dont need the money from them now. PS: i have no problem to pay fair prices, but when someone offers cheaper, i'll buy from him. I don't know what other do, but if I need money am I making ME or LE and sell them to the magic shop - because the prices are not much lower than market and if they were sold on market would it make prices even lower. And it's rare I have more than 100kgc - and why have, money are loosing their value atm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ghrae Report post Posted March 1, 2009 As a mixer, I feel for you. But it will eventually come down to the same series of events from past "unions". - Top players want at least cost of ingredients for finished goods. - Cost of ingredients = cost of individual components from market - Top players set a "fair" price - Other players laugh - Other players go out, harv stuff and not buy it on market - Other players undercut top players - Union collapses It's the players that do NOT agree to your proposed price structure that will cause this to fail. And "fair prices"... ever tried selling rings on market? Some rings are cheaper to buy from the NPC than to make. Sometimes an item just isn't profitable to make. It's the xp or chance for uber items that gives it value... not resale price. Good luck Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Khalai Report post Posted March 1, 2009 (edited) It's the xp or chance for uber items that gives it value... not resale price. True, but when the experience gained is 1/8 of gc lost and even rare sword does not compensate cumulative losses, then there is no point in even bother to make such item. We are talking about 8000-10000gc loss per SINGLE ITEM. Edited March 1, 2009 by Khalai Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Talixim Report post Posted March 1, 2009 Peach is right, we need more brod hits Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gogalthorp Report post Posted March 1, 2009 It is the increase in population. There are at lest 200 more regular players then there were 6 months ago. Apparently the finding of rare items has not increased. Thus higher prices paid for the rare items which drives the cost of the manu items up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kalix Report post Posted March 1, 2009 Glad to see this BTW wizzys bots have always been my favorites, dunno if ive ever told him tho Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Holar Report post Posted March 1, 2009 I agree fully that no one should be selling below the cost, with no profit. Saying that, dear top manuers, please stop paying ridiculous prices for efe's and bindings. That's you who have screwed up ingreds market, starting from steel bars, ending with efe's. You needed plenty to mass produce, you were buing in bulk, offering more and more and more every day. As effect, efe have raised from 6.5 to 7.5k, bindings from 6k to 8-9k and steel bars from 45 to 50-52 gc each. Moreover you were selling below cost, tonnes of non-rare goods. Please blame yourself now. Stop mass production, stop paying such high prices for ingreds, soon your production will become more profitable again. Why to sell steel greaves for 20kgc. If you say so Holar, why your bot Pepa is paying 20 kgc then ? Who do you expect to sell to Pepa ? Why to have 5k marging on buying/selling greaves on your bot? If you sell for 24.900, buy for 24.000 perhaps? I have never based my lvl progress on mass production of items except leather helmets sold to NPC, never! I produce just what im able to sell usually having just one piece of commonly sold armour/weapons at my sto. It was always a problem to have enough EFEs, even in the time they cost 3kgc. Now even I pay 7,8 kgc for EFEs/Bindings im nearly unable to buy them. I do not agree that the price of EFEs/Bindings/serpents would go down. May be we can involve a bit price of steel bars as you mentioned from 45 to 50gc. But it is about 11%. Serpents increase from 600gc to 5kgc it is a bit different story imho. BTW, what a nice coincidence that these items are sold for USD from EL shop. I do not claim it, we play for free so it is a way how to support the team. I just guess that this stuff would not be cheaper. But it is far from our topic. And Pepa? Yea I pay just 20kgc by PEPA for steel greaves as couple of other bots do - Minerva, UnitGirl, Warmart. Some of them are even cheaper Miria 19kgc, Pound 18kgc. And I will keep the price. If I increase the price to 24kgc I would buy more products than I sell. It could be ok for somebody but it is a problem for me, I will be just a trader and no manuer anymore... But I do not want to describe details of reasons/results/ways of doing that and this. I just say: I quit under ingreds price deliveries. I do not want to robber my customers, but I do not want to support them either. Many thanks for all above posted positive reactions. Have a nice game! All of you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
conavar Report post Posted March 1, 2009 (edited) Im all for people wanting to make a profit with there skill, but imo you are tackling the wrong end of the problem, instead of upping the end products price to make a profit you should be trying to get the ings price down. You know what will happen nxt ? people will see that you are making a profit with bindings/efes etc being the price they are.. and then increase their price (or increase their sell prices to cover the increased cost of the great sword they want ie: I buy bindings from the shop and if I have to increase the sale price to 10K+ to be able to afford new prices,then I will) Then the manuers will want to increase the price again to make a profit and the circle continues. End result will be some items will be cheaper to buy from an NPC rather than a player, then to put it bluntly you are f00ked. So maybe aswell all bots owners should lower their buy and sell prices of Ings to suit, you buy somthing at 5k sell it for 5.5k not the stupid marked up price of 9k etc etc, fine line between profit and greed Edited March 1, 2009 by conavar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marack Report post Posted March 1, 2009 If I alch an EFE, my cost is basically 0gc. If I mine a binding stone out of the rock, my cost is basically 0gc. If I smelt a hydro bar from the ore I've mined and the s2es ive made, my cost is basically 0gc. If someone wants to buy any of my items above, I wonder how I should determine my price? Ask Trinity? Ask market channel? Ask a bot? Look up on EL shop? Probably all! If I buy an EFE from Larry then turnaround and sell it to Jean I've probably added 10%. If Jean sells that EFE to Peter, she'll add 10% and so on... In the end, that EFE makes its way to a mixer who will consume it, and in the process, pays the inflated price for something that basically costs nothing in the first place. However, the mixer needs to cover his costs and in turn make a profit. Its tough being a mixer unless you can make/collect your own INGs instead of buying them, no? I'm not sure how Holar's strike will change the above...Good Luck! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaddy Report post Posted March 1, 2009 There will be always some people that will sell the items for a lower price than what it costs, you can do whatever you want but they will still sell for lower price for a reason (The reason maybe they tried to make a special one, and made 30 of that item maybe, then at least s/he will try to sell all for a lower price) So goodluck Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Learner Report post Posted March 1, 2009 If I alch an EFE, my cost is basically 0gc. If I mine a binding stone out of the rock, my cost is basically 0gc. If I smelt a hydro bar from the ore I've mined and the s2es ive made, my cost is basically 0gc. If someone wants to buy any of my items above, I wonder how I should determine my price? Ask Trinity? Ask market channel? Ask a bot? Look up on EL shop? Probably all! If I buy an EFE from Larry then turnaround and sell it to Jean I've probably added 10%. If Jean sells that EFE to Peter, she'll add 10% and so on... In the end, that EFE makes its way to a mixer who will consume it, and in the process, pays the inflated price for something that basically costs nothing in the first place. However, the mixer needs to cover his costs and in turn make a profit. Its tough being a mixer unless you can make/collect your own INGs instead of buying them, no? I'm not sure how Holar's strike will change the above...Good Luck! Yes, they cost 0gc, but what is their value on the open market? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cruella Report post Posted March 1, 2009 Holar, while PEPA has 5k margin on steel greaves, two other bots you've listed have 2k. So if you perhaps use 10% margin instead of 20%, you'd do better. In majority of cases those who buy and use ings in bulk dictate their prices, not bots. You can set whatever you want on a bot, if there is no buyer - it is a fail. We have seen price wars on channel 3 and we know who was sending requests to buy ingredients for more and more, in bulk. So as long as you guys pay high for ingredients, your items cost more than people are willing to pay. I suspect that for lower level stuff people will find alternative suppliers, for high level stuff they will use top manuer services providing own ingredients. Anyway, good luck with your cause, we will see how it will develop. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sora_barzahd Report post Posted March 1, 2009 This strike is awesome! It's contributing to my profits. Less competition is always nice. Keep at it! ^-^ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
