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Jezebelle

Potions of Defence and Attack Reduce

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Hello all,

 

Since I am a potter, not a fighter I would like to hear your opinion on the new pots of Attack and Defence Reduce.

 

For those who used it, please state here what you feel about it.

I am also very curious about the price you are willing to pay, so, in other words, how usefull is the potion.

 

Jez

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The current formula makes 12 pots

 

Minimum these will cost 400 each. I dont think many will use them

 

Now if the forumla made 100 pots, making them 25-40 each, more in the range of reason/will pots, I think they will get used much more.

 

The average fighter can train for 5-6 hours + on a single spawn..so losing a/d per minuite would make this still very expensive trainning

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The current formula makes 12 pots

 

Minimum these will cost 400 each. I dont think many will use them

 

Now if the forumla made 100 pots, making them 25-40 each, more in the range of reason/will pots, I think they will get used much more.

 

The average fighter can train for 5-6 hours + on a single spawn..so losing a/d per minuite would make this still very expensive trainning

I don't see how at a price of 7kish per scale (which is about the cost of actually acquiring the scale as I was told) you can possibly come to a 400 gc minimum price, I think around 630 gc will cover the costs barely and since less than a handful of potion makers can make them without failing too often, you're more likely looking at a 700 gc minimum cost. Which in turn comes to about 1 scale per skill per hour, plus cost of going down to where you want to train, leading to a minimum of 7k for one skill per hour or 14k for two. Is that too much? Seeing spending patterns of some "fighters" I guess Radu must have thought it's not ;)

On the other hand, making them too cheap will just put us back to the perversion of TS pots "fail".

 

So, in conclusion, while I do have the money to waste on them, I won't, but I'll make them for you :P

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It is clear they are not meant for a daily use basis. I too have a hard time seeing their use considering its cost. I feel it, it's just an option for some fighters, if they want slighy more XP, they have to pay. If they want to do so (and ruin their storage account), they have the option there.

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I would think there almost never gonna be used considering that people can spend 5+ hours on a spawn, that could cost 70k per session. Now considering you trained 5+ hours every day a week it could cost about 500k+. Then add in the cost of HE SRs and broken armor.

 

Most of this was estimations so feel free to rip that post to shreds.

Edited by Kalix

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Your math seems fine.

 

Say you only want to reduce your attack 5 levels. If you use one pot every 5 minutes, at 700 gc per pot (Erma's estimate), thats 20 pots an hour * 700 gc =14k per hour. 14k*5 hour training session = 70k a day. 6 Days a week would bring that to a total of 420,000 GC per week. That being said, you could maintain -25 to -30 for a total cost of only 4200 more.

 

#edit: keeping both attack and defense -5 would double the cost.

Edited by Shujral

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+ auto attack on the monsters has been reduced so its very hard to train thoses monsters with an a/d low enough so they would auto attack you. Most of ppl would get pwnt if a/d reduce to obtain an auto attack from the monsters because their attributes would be too low.

 

anyway i think the pot is too expensive for what it provides.

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Your math seems fine.

 

Say you only want to reduce your attack 5 levels. If you use one pot every 5 minutes, at 700 gc per pot (Erma's estimate), thats 20 pots an hour * 700 gc =14k per hour. 14k*5 hour training session = 70k a day. 6 Days a week would bring that to a total of 420,000 GC per week. That being said, you could maintain -25 to -30 for a total cost of only 4200 more.

 

#edit: keeping both attack and defense -5 would double the cost.

 

Correct me if im wrong but there is only 60 minutes in a hour and 5 minutes * 20 is 100...

 

My calculation was considering that you where keeping both attack and defense -5 (like i said tho it was estimated the real price would be more around 600k) but then consider 600k + HE SRs and broken armor and a possible rosto here and there

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Your math seems fine.

 

Say you only want to reduce your attack 5 levels. If you use one pot every 5 minutes, at 700 gc per pot (Erma's estimate), thats 20 pots an hour * 700 gc =14k per hour. 14k*5 hour training session = 70k a day. 6 Days a week would bring that to a total of 420,000 GC per week. That being said, you could maintain -25 to -30 for a total cost of only 4200 more.

 

#edit: keeping both attack and defense -5 would double the cost.

 

Correct me if im wrong but there is only 60 minutes in a hour and 5 minutes * 20 is 100...

 

My calculation was considering that you where keeping both attack and defense -5 (like i said tho it was estimated the real price would be more around 600k) but then consider 600k + HE SRs and broken armor and a possible rosto here and there

 

Yes, 20*5=100. I was testing you ;)

 

Still, 12 pots per hour*700 gc would still cost 8.4k an hour, 504000 gc per week, plus HE, SR, armor

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Well, as the first to attempt selling the attack pots on market... I'm not anymore. I got 22 left sitting in storage that I'm not even bothering to advertise anymore. And don't really want to because of the hassle that was yesterday.

 

 

The problem: I spent the entire day fielding "uh, what does it do?" questions due to no real documentation. Upon being nice and explaining it to them, the normal response was "That's it? For that much?" and wasted time as there was no way they were gonna buy any at that price for so little result. It was in all an incredibly frustrating experience and I'm out a load of gc because of it on top of that.

 

Even had random people PMing me saying "You'll never sell them for that much" with no intention to buy, as if I needed to hear that from yet another person. Just PMing that solely because they saw me post ads for them.

 

 

These are not going to sell. Granted, I managed to offload 14 of them, but only to two players and I'm pretty certain they just wanted to try them, I don't expect repeat buyers out of either.

 

 

There's no market at all for them at 700gc each, and it's impossible to sell them for less (as explained by Ermabwed above, I fully agree with his cost statements). As it is, the attack pots I've made will gather dust in storage. The defense book is still being read, but I won't make any unless changes are made so they're actually sellable in at least minimal amounts.

 

They're prohibitively expensive and even used to their full advantage don't provide anywhere near enough to justify the cost. I love seeing new ideas for pots for higher-levels (us "vegetal 6ers") or new uses for current high-level stuff (creature food, god quests) but this pot needs tweaking badly.

Edited by GoodDay2Die

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the only use i can think of is to get -30 att and multi feros, for people around 90/110 a/d which is not many, they could have 60/110 and they could reasonably multi feros for 7kgc/hour and getting big xp. although they might need tinf to not die.

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There's no market at all for them at 700gc each, and it's impossible to sell them for less (as explained by Ermabwed above, I fully agree with his cost statements).

Even though they're a lot more expensive that TS pots, I bet they'd sell pretty well if they worked the way TS pots used to (the reduction stays in effect as long as your food is negative). At the higher cost people would plan their training to use them (it wouldn't be casual) but some would use them. At least enough to create a market for them.

 

To make it less of a sure-thing, they could be given a 10% failure rate; you drink it and don't get the reduction, or even get an a/d increase instead of the decrease. :pickaxe: Wouldn't that be interesting? Instead of the desired reduction you get a gain, you have to wait for the gain to wear off (one point per minute) before you can try again.

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There's no market at all for them at 700gc each, and it's impossible to sell them for less (as explained by Ermabwed above, I fully agree with his cost statements).

Even though they're a lot more expensive that TS pots, I bet they'd sell pretty well if they worked the way TS pots used to (the reduction stays in effect as long as your food is negative). At the higher cost people would plan their training to use them (it wouldn't be casual) but some would use them. At least enough to create a market for them.

 

To make it less of a sure-thing, they could be given a 10% failure rate; you drink it and don't get the reduction, or even get an a/d increase instead of the decrease. :pickaxe: Wouldn't that be interesting? Instead of the desired reduction you get a gain, you have to wait for the gain to wear off (one point per minute) before you can try again.

 

tbh the average TS would cost about 200gc, 800gc to fully TS these pots would barely be more expensive, costing maybe 4k for the same effect, ok its 5x as much but not orders of magnitude higher which it would have to be to get people to think twice; and if you could get -30 with them then they would be twice as powerful and then everyone really would be a fluffy/feros trainer forever.

 

edit @ jajohn: TS didn't so i expect not, otherwise again anyone up to 130s could and if you got in with high 120s a/d you would easily average above 7kgc in profit.

Edited by anima

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Yeah, those potions suck compared to the alternative, letting the scales sit there unused in the storage.

 

I am afraid, the scales will still be used very scarcely on these potions. Let's suggest that the formula produces like 20-30 potions and the effect last whole 5 (or maybe 10 minute) instead of slowly fading away per minute?

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I think thy should last untill u log off at those prices or us potters are out of gc for buying scales and books <<<<

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Video card: ATI Radeon X300/X550/X1050 Series

Vendor ID: ATI Technologies Inc.

OpenGL Version: 2.1.8494 Release

Edited by Altaria

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Yeah, those potions suck compared to the alternative, letting the scales sit there unused in the storage.

 

If noone buys the potions, those of us who can make them stop making them, and the scales will continue to pile up anyway. Excepting the few that get used to make pots that end up going unused in storage unsellable, not a big diff, hehe.

 

I like the idea, I'd love to see them work out, from a potter perspective. I'm sure the regular a/d-ers would find use for them as well.

 

Just saying they're going to need to be tweaked, a bit more value for gc. Not enough that everybody and their grandmother can do it, as I know they're not intended to be for everyone-all-the-time, but at this point not even the "big spenders" are willing to pay for them.

 

Even if the tweak meant I'd end up selling already-made ones for less. I'll take that hit, heh. :pickaxe:

 

 

(Edit note: Written as the last few posts were made, so a late response)

Edited by GoodDay2Die

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Well, we are going to see what happens when even more scales pile up.

Right now, there are over 700 red and black scales (each) in the game, and more coming almost every day.

And considering the fact that they are 'free' if you farm your own dragons, I don't see them not getting used in the future.

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