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Frodewin

Adjust levelling to avoid oversupplies

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The following ideas came to my mind basically on the example of manufacturing, but most likely would apply to all the mixing skills.

 

Problem statement:

Levelling requires an overproduction of items nobody needs in that quantity. This affects the market and creates great boredom for the mixer. In case of manufacturing, people even get stuck at producing leather helmets 4ever, since the higher items are less apt for levelling. Apart from being monotonous, for me personally, it is more fun to produce an item than is actually needed and used by someone than producing for Trik.

Proposed improvements:

I.) Adjust the gained XP to the level (similar as it is implemented in fighting)

Producing an item below your manu level will give less XP, producing an item above your manu level will give more XP.

If the XP gain has a steep curve, the best XP is made with items slightly above your level, causing many failures. Thus, a player can decide to produce for the market (many items, low XP) or to level (few items, more time, but better XP/time gain)

II.) Make the schools more attractive for leveling.

Increase the XP in schools (probably reduce the XP for real manufacturing a little bit). Schools produce no items, thus further mitigate oversupply in the market.

III.) Make it more time-consuming to produce an item.

This reduces the overall number of created items. This could go hand in hand with more role playing. If, for example, swords could only be manufactured at smitheries, the time to transport the ings to the smithery would make the time effort per sword greater. As a compensation, the XP sword should be accordingly higher. Overall effect: same time effort for leveling, but a fewer number of items flood the market.

 

Expected results:

  • Less items on the market.
  • More alternation and change in the levelling process.
  • But time and effort for levelling stays the same.

Related discussions:

After checking for related posts, I found out that the problem has been discussed before, but the proposed solutions are novel. For interested readers I refer to threads http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=28455 and http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19119

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To me it sounds like all this would do is get everyone to level faster, and not affect the over supply issue much.

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I think it will make leveling even more slow, people will need to mix more stuff at higher levels to gain the same exp.

 

Anyway, this has been suggested many times before :medieval:

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i kind of like the idea of people getting less experience of lower level things as their level gets higher, but the system isnt really set up for something like this.

like if you get up to 60 manu the only things left to make at your level are expensive things such as ti armour and you cant exactly get too many levels making just ti armour cause it would take way too long and it costs too much, which maybe is a good thing for the economy not having so many people at high level.

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I don't like this idea. I will try commenting on each of your points.

Ad. I.

I absolutely agree with Cycloonx. This change will make leveling much slower than it is right now. When a manufacturer will get to level 60+ the only stuff worth manufacturing for decent experience would be steel/titanium/dragon armour sets. All ingredients are expensive and, even now, prices at market are below the cost of ingredients. In the effect people will still be stuck with leather helms with the difference they will get less experience per one. I'm afraid the result would be opposite to planned.

 

Ad. II.

I like this idea. However, I'm afraid it woudl be way too easy to level up. Double experience is already pretty high bonus.

 

Ad. III.

I don't think this solution would change the amount of stuff on market. The only positive outcome of the propose change would be forcing people to cooperate with other players, e.g. guildies so they don't have to haul all ingredients on their own.

 

Considering all three suggestions I would expect somewhat different outcome than you. I mean:

1. amount of items in market wouldn't change significatnly

2. people would be stuck with low level items when grinding, but would get less experience

3. slower pace of leveling up

4. leveling up after 60 extremely expensive

5. more cooperation between players

 

I have an impression that I've read similar suggestions in past. Probably in several different threads, though. All in all, I don't think implementing presented changes would be any good for us.

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To me it sounds like all this would do is get everyone to level faster, and not affect the over supply issue much.

 

I think it will make leveling even more slow, people will need to mix more stuff at higher levels to gain the same exp.

 

Actually, what I was trying to indicate is that the system should be finetuned so that levelling will neither be faster nor slower. Probably less items will be needed until next level but same time/gc effort. And, yes, I know that adjusting this is not easy :-)

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Right now, what you described in I is deliberate, AFAIK.

 

It's a sacrifice, either:

 

-You make a low level item continuously. Ingredients are (relatively) easy to obtain, finished product sells for low GCs, you can make enough of them to outweigh the cost of an expensive item.

 

 

-You make a high level item continuously. Ingredients are lousy to obtain (imagine trying to make 50 ID sets? :P ), finished product sells for a lot but has a considerably smaller market and you run the risk of failing to make it, completely losing all your (expensive) ingredients.

 

Not to mention the second option requires knowledge and probably more tools, too.

Edited by Aphistolas

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A set amount of experience already decreases in "value" as level increases, viewed relative to the amount required for the next level. In other words, that is the job of the experience level table.

 

As an alternative, it would be interesting to only give xp for *failing* a task, and not for success, which I think has a stronger rational -- you may learn a lot making your first 100 leather helmets, but what more do you learn in making the next 70,000...?

 

Experience on failure [1] should result in more lost ingredients (economic effect), more attempts at difficult tasks, and less mass production of low level items. Effectively, soft "level caps" will exist relative to the most difficult tasks available in any skill (except PvP combat...).

 

This mechanism would also apply to combat experience, and could replace the secondary xp adjustment for relative levels. While it would make PK against weaker opponents a zero-experience activity, combat would not suffer the same "soft level cap" as other skills, as equally matched pairs would continue to earn experience. This suggests that something else would have to be added to the game to give the same opportunity for other skills.

 

However, switching from experience-on-success to experience-on-failure would likely be unpopular.

 

 

[1] Gain experience on normal failure and critical success, no experience gained on normal success or critical failures.

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Experience-for-failure could be translated to an experience bonus for successfully making an item that is say 10 levels above your base level. And some penalty if your base level is more then 10 levels above the req. level.

 

Taking manufacture as an example, I guess people will want a level 30 or 40 item that is comparable to the leather helm in terms of exp/gc/hour etc.

 

It is tricky to completely (or only party..) change the way experience is obtained in a skill, since loads of people will complain since its not fair etc.

Skills are trained because its fun or rewarding to be able to make better items. If the skill becomes more fun trough some drastic change, it should be a positive thing right? Even if it gives you less exp/hour and leveling becomes harder.

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If you are to adjust the experience gained from an item based on the manu level of the mixer vs the recommended level of the item, you should also increase the experience you gain from the items so that the slope is steeper. Alot of manu items do not give enough experience for being high level manu items. 3 leather helms give about the same experience as 1 s2e for a manufacturer with good rationality. I can make enough experience in leather helms in 10 minutes that I would make from mixing a titanium chestplate.

 

Of course, any change to the experience given for items reguardless of what sort of change should be done with great care. If you decrease the experience for things based on manu level, the item should not give less than 1/2 of the original xp.

 

Putting a scale on the experience would also require changing the documentation for each item.

 

Oh. One last thing, you would need to decide if the rationality and god bonuses are considered before or after any scaling is done.

 

It would be easier to add an item that applies the different rules for xp given and try it out for a while. It would be a heck of alot safer for the game (playability and economy) too.

Edited by nathanstenzel

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Nah. Selling stuff to NPC's is actually more fun than selling it to people. Why?

 

1) They are online 24/7

2) They never change their mind

3) They have fixed prices

4) They will buy your zillion Uni meds you need for the next crafting lvl

 

:)

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