Kusamura Jungle

[chr0nik]

Anyone go there recently? It's a little more difficult to get to. Dare I say, move the trice, wtf-ever, to Kusa now and I doubt many would complain.

 

Flame, bitch, whatever. I had to say it.

[Jinxie]

I agree with you on this one. Taking the boat away just made Kusamura Jungle useless for much else.

Edited December 8, 2008 by Jinxie

[conavar]

. Dare I say, move the trice, wtf-ever, to Kusa now and I doubt many would complain.

 

Pfft whats the point in moving them somewhere where no one complains

[Entropy]

No, I will never move them back to KJ, because of all the bitching you did last time. I had absolutely no idea that the boat was there to begin with.

[chr0nik]

No, I will never move them back to KJ, because of all the bitching you did last time. I had absolutely no idea that the boat was there to begin with.

 

Hmm. Well, we complained because it was a reasonable map to harv silver/iron on, even tho the silver was relocated previously because it was apparently too close to sto.

 

But whatever, I'll go join the huge crowds in Trassian for silver until that gets moved.

[MagpieLee]

No, I will never move them back to KJ, because of all the bitching you did last time. I had absolutely no idea that the boat was there to begin with.

 

Hmm. Well, we complained because it was a reasonable map to harv silver/iron on, even tho the silver was relocated previously because it was apparently too close to sto.

 

But whatever, I'll go join the huge crowds in Trassian for silver until that gets moved.

lol funny what you said there. I saw radu sitting there (Trassian/Iscal cave) a few days ago. I thought he looked out of place but now I know he must have been observing the traffic there.

I haven't been back since, maybe its gotten busier since you can't row that boat in PV/Kusa any longer.

Edited December 9, 2008 by MagpieLee

[Burn]

The people bitching about the chickens have been ousted from KJ now. The boat kill served the same purpose as adding the chickens, made KJ no longer a viable harv location.

 

 

 

 

The real question (seriously) is... KJ is now useful for ________ .

 

- Yew? Granted, it's currently the only safe map for that. Dunno how many people actually are harving it there.

- Lions? Only loc for them, yes. But due to being spread out most people don't hit so many of them on the way up the a/d ladder, not easy to train on.

 

Two obscure uses. Otherwise KJ became a wasteland today.

Edited December 9, 2008 by GoodDay2Die

[Acelon]

Deal with it guys. Radu felt that this shortcut was too good, so it was removed, trust his opinion on it.

 

The maps are dynamic and still under development. Things are bound to change/be fixed/relocated. Maybe you'll see Kusamura become more useful in a future update.

[korrode]

No, I will never move them back to KJ, because of all the bitching you did last time. I had absolutely no idea that the boat was there to begin with.

Don't you think it would be nice if all the WVF f.chims went and ransacked Hurquin? ...or maybe Sedicolis?

[DHT]

Put the boat further from sto and problem solved, = kusamura jungle stays used by at least 5 people.

[majestyk]

Now that it has been removed for being "too good" I feel like an idiot for not using it while it was still possible.

 

On a different sidenote: I thought map changes would need to be approved by entropy before they get in, I wonder how things like this or the diamond behind the chest in Irinveron (where it was really obvious that this was too convenient) slip through.

[Cruella]

I wonder if anyone has made any measurements regarding how easy or difficult it is to use particular resource (by measuring times of trips between resource and storage) ? Do that and you will see that Kusa silver was no better than Glac/Trass route. And due to Lenny it was more risky to use. I do not complain, I just moved to Trassian for silver and to EVTR for iron, I just do not see objective reasons for such change.

[groomsh]

I wonder if anyone has made any measurements regarding how easy or difficult it is to use particular resource (by measuring times of trips between resource and storage) ? Do that and you will see that Kusa silver was no better than Glac/Trass route. And due to Lenny it was more risky to use. I do not complain, I just moved to Trassian for silver and to EVTR for iron, I just do not see objective reasons for such change.

Problem is that glac/trass route needs 3 map changes going there and 3 map changes going back...

EVTR also needs 2 map changes to get there and 2 map changes going back...

Kusamura needed only one there and one back, that's why it was better.

I guess part of the problem were also the 2 bots placed in kusamura.

[WolfWitch]

Personally I will still be using Kasu, the things I always used it for are still there,and I was using it well before I even knew the boat was there. The extra 1 min it takes to get to evtr store really doesn't bother me all that much.

 

Wolfy

[Roja]

On a different sidenote: I thought map changes would need to be approved by entropy before they get in, I wonder how things like this or the diamond behind the chest in Irinveron (where it was really obvious that this was too convenient) slip through.

 

Well they actually have to be approved by Roja. With only one person to approve every change in every single map, it gets difficult to check everything-so many times I don't. It is my fault it was there as I didn't see it.

In any case, in the next year we are going to go through every map and reorganize/strategically place all the resources to try and balance things out as best as possible. So things like this won't happen.

[Kaddy]

Roja, please dont flame me because i m telling this but i think i have to tell this for the sake of mixing.

 

Myself, not a mixer but my wife in EL is a total mixer, and i know what a mixer's life. Almost all of the mixers has a settled life atm, as they know where is best spot to make something. So why is there a need to change/reorganize them? They are all settled and the changes in resources will just make them discourage (as they are way discouraged already with the 'unprofitting' prices). And i dont see any bad things in making a resources closer to sto. I know how hard to harvest something. As i fighter, i have alot of spawns which i can easily go and train, so why dont mixers have close-to-sto resources?

 

 

I hope this wont end up decreasing spawns...

 

 

-Kaddy

[Roja]

Because we want to make the best possible game we can. Right now, with a few exceptions, all the resources have been put down without any thought. That doesn't mean they are all in bad places, it doesn't mean we're going to change everything. We just want to clean up the mess so to say. There really isn't anything to worry about.

[MagpieLee]

<snip>And i dont see any bad things in making a resources closer to sto. I know how hard to harvest something. As i fighter, i have alot of spawns which i can easily go and train, so why dont mixers have close-to-sto resources?

 

 

I hope this wont end up decreasing spawns...

 

 

-Kaddy

I think this is probably because they want to control the rate of wealth gain. If something is too close to storage, esp one that you can easily gain money from, then people will get too rich too quickly. I'm not sure what the exact stats are but isn't there a debate that there's too much money floating around?

There's other ingame mechanisms that slow down the growth rate or things that act as a money sink.

 

Anyone remember the lilac bush in VotD? Well if you don't, there was a Lilac bush right outside VotD flower shop. This was removed because you could gain some decent coin, at no risk, by doing the simplest things. The same with the coal in EVTR, the multi harvest places in Zirk, the forge in Zirk and blah blah blah.

 

As for your last statement, EL has always been a game centred around fighting.

[Cruella]

Why we close a route that allows to harv 1,2 k silver per hour when a 1,5k per hour on exists? I think decisions should be made on a basis of measureable indexes, otherwise players get confused and do not understand reasoning behind such change.

 

As to the future map reviews, please remember that small things like secret passages have their roleplaying value in games such as EL. No matter what is reasoning behind it, I miss each of such features seing it gone. I think an effort should be made to preserve such features since they add value to the game.

[Roja]

Cruella, if another very easy access route such as pv-kj boat exists, well then it too should be changed. Problem is I don't know about them all(and you guys won't tell me because obviously you want to keep the game EZ)

That is a big reason why all the maps will be fixed up.

 

Small things matter a lot, RP won't be taken out but more put in. Like I said, you really don't have anything to worry about. We don't plan on making the game worse, but if we do see a real short cut cheat that was never meant to be, we will indeed take it out.

[Cruella]

Roja, good ole' Trassian that everyone knows and uses is faster than Kusa was (after moving silveer further south), despite of more map changes (which is actually not true if you use Isca sto, not Glac). So much for secrets . My guess is that those who were using Kusa simply liked it because it was less crowded than Trassian cave and because there was always that thrill of Leo coming at night ;-) Plus perhaps they just liked to row a boat rather than map change

[Burn]

In any case, in the next year we are going to go through every map and reorganize/strategically place all the resources to try and balance things out as best as possible. So things like this won't happen.

 

Howsabout, rather than these unannounced on-a-whim changes that keep happening that screw harvers over, we get things left as-is until this "balance" is actually done? "Things like this" don't need to be happening at all.

 

Yes, there's always bitching with changes. However, of late every harv change:

 

(1) significant as it is to harvers, goes completely unannounced in server update posts, while the tiniest of changes for other skills shows up. We're left to stumble on them on our own, then we get shot down with "deal with it" (quoted from above) messages when someone dares bring it up. We'd like to trust "the powers that be", but this doesn't help. Bronze armor wasn't made unmakeable (or re-added) without an announcement. New potions weren't added without an announcement. Chickens weren't moved to (and removed from) KJ without an announcement. Why are harvers deemed not deserving of the same when changes are made that seriously affect us?

 

(2) is done on a whim with no attempts to try it to see if that whim is at least informed. We're told "trust his opinion" (quoted from above) but from our point of view it's uninformed. If it was "harved 10k like most everyone else does at a minimum, decided it was too easy, changed it" then it would at least be an informed whim. There was nothing easy about trying to stock silver or iron via the boat, and any attempts to say otherwise are just proof of being terribly uninformed. Ditto the gypsum (even more so).

 

(3) is done in a way that screws harvers. To us regular players who are the ones who actually have to "deal with it", it does look like we're getting screwed on a regular basis (secretly, per #1) because not once are we ever tossed even the slightest possible positive bone.

 

 

I gotta believe, despite these secret unannounced changes, that you don't want "making it harder" to turn into "completely ruining gameplay". The game hasn't been in development this long just to do that.

 

And no, I'm not saying this one change is "completely ruining gameplay". The combination of recent changes, not one of which has been remotely positive, is heading that way though.

 

If there's going to be a "big balance", please just leave things be until then. These secret unannounced whim changes that we're forced to stumble on (and cause threads like this) are gameplay ruiners, or at the least, annoying. They're not "interesting things to discover ourselves" because they're never things we smile about when they're found. There's really nothing about any harv as it currently is that is in such a desperate need of change that it further alienates players from the game by making further unnanounced whim changes. A little stability while other things are worked on is not a bad thing. Really!

[groomsh]

@GoodDay2Die

 

What's a big deal about it ?

If it was not planed to be there and it was not announced to be in game (ofcourse because it's a secret) then there is no meaning to announce a secret being taken out from game.

Why do you think it was made for harvesters ? Have you never met trainers in kusamura ?

There are other places to harvest iron/silver, so how can this screw gameplay ? oooh i know ... it screws afk harvesting

[Burn]

What's a big deal about it ?

 

 

I specifically stated I'm not saying this one change is "completely ruining gameplay" for responses like yours.

 

And it's incredibly hard to believe that it "got added" without SOMEONE planning to add it. These things weren't added by someone randomly typing code, they were intentionally added. Your response of "it wasn't planned to be there" is not physically possible. Someone had to plan it, and intentionally code it.

 

 

The main point of the post is there. You missed it. Please don't ruin my attempt to state my opinion by going off on what was a minor tangent.

 

It's been stated that a full overhaul balance is planned. It's not possible that any of these random whim changes will do anything to help that balance without taking time to plan every change, so they can't possibly provide any benefit or make things any more "balanced". Keeping things as-is until that's done, short of actual bugs, isn't much to ask. In fact, it would be beneficial as that's just more time to focus on all these new things like instances and horses and hey, there was rumor that we might get a Pot goddess soon.

 

 

P.S. This usage of boats (use it, you go somewhere) is learned on Isla Prima at the boats there. Other boats behave the same way on various maps. The PV/KJ boat could not possibly be considered a "secret" since it behaves the exact same way as other boats in the game.

Edited December 9, 2008 by GoodDay2Die

[Cruella]

oooh i know ... it screws afk harvesting

 

Compare going afk in Kusa at night with going afk in Trassian cave lol

 

Personally I treat such changes equally to cavern wall collapses - you never know when and how hard Mother Nature or Developers hit you so do not despair GoodDay2Die - just go mine elsewhere. In a month or two there might be another change that will gt people back to Kusa, who knows .....