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Zenial

Trik Vs. School

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I still think Trik is a better option. Using Cruella's statistics, I think I can show you why.

Let's see ...

 

For 100k of manufacturing exp with my rationality and manu god I'd need to make at Trik 1563 leather helms, using 4689 leather and 6252 thread (assuming no fails) plus 188 fp's.

 

In order to make it I'd have to spend 21882 gc for leather and 12504 gc for thread - 34386 gc total , not including cost of food and needles.

 

Despite of selling to Trik I'd lose roughly 4 kgc , and with my emu I'd have to do 16 trips to Trik.

 

 

Now, when making helms in the manu school:

 

- you need to invest just 50% of money, that is 17193 gc

- you need to haul just 50% of resources from Kelcha and general store

- you use half of food (over 1,1kgc saving)

- you make 50% of trips to manu school (which can be actually found 20 steps from sto, no map hopping like in case of Trik)

 

 

The difference in cost of 100k exp will be roughly 12kgc (still assuming no fails) - instead of losing 6.2 kgc at Trik, you will lose 18,2 kgc at school

 

Now, I think the time saved for less hauling and less trips to Trick allows you to make much more gc's than 12k. And as you can see, you can start leveling having 1/2 of money needed for traditional way, which negates the thesis that it is a method just for rich folks :devlish:

 

Firstly, note the difference between the two loss amounts, losing 6.2kgc using trik and 18.2kgc at a school. The difference is 12kgc (obviously). How long does it take to make 12kgc from scratch?. Let us say we make money from HEs -nearly everyone can make them, they're not bad money- it would take about 2-2.5 hours. Within 2 hours, I'm confident I could haul an extra 2k leather and 3k thread, and the extra 94 Potions of Feasting.

 

Next. Initially, we spend 38, 205gc using Trik and 19, 103gc using a school. Now, Trik pays 20gc each per a leather helm. Therefor, we get a return of 80% on our gold coins spent on ingredients + food. (1563 * 20 = 31 260, 31 260/38, 205 = ~80%). If the money from Trik is continually reinvested until we get to 0gc.

 

Err...From now on I won't be referring to Cruella's post as she has included her rationality in her calculations, and I don't want to.

 

Orginal amount | Exp. Given

38, 205gc | 84, 402 (base exp + god (+20%) makes it 84, 402 exp)

30, 564gc | 67, 522

24, 451gc | 54 018

19, 560gc | 43 214

15, 649gc | 34, 571

12, 519gc | 27, 657

10, 015gc | 22, 125

8, 012gc | 17, 700

6, 410gc | 14, 160

5, 128gc | 11, 328

4, 102gc | 9, 062

3282gc | 7, 250

2625gc | 5800

(Formulas for the win :blush:)

 

Accumulatively, the money spent on Trik gives over 385k exp. So, even if we spend the same amount of money at Trik as we did on the school (half), we still get more total exp. To get 385k exp in the school: 45 base exp * 1.2 for god * 2 for school = 108. 385k / 108 = 3565. 3565 * 23gc a helm = 82kgc.

 

Referring back to my HEs for money, it would take AT LEAST 14 hours to get the money, for that exp. when using the school. Using Trik it is 6 hours and double the time hauling. And double the hauling will not be more than the 8 hours difference it takes to make the money.

 

Also, when doing the loads to Trik, I think most haul leather + thread + food + needles, rather than leather + thread + food + needles + an inventory full of leather helms. So with this, One quarter of the leather helms are made at storage (hooray).

 

**Disclaimer** This is nothing against Cruella herself. I'm sure she's lovely, it's just that I think any leather-helming-school-user is wrong.

 

:medieval: proveth meh wrong

 

EDIT: The HEs have very little to do with this, they were just an example I used as a way to get money because I knew how long they take. It could have been anything; blue lupines, titanium, steel bars. Whatever you like, it makes little difference.

Edited by Zenial

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I don't use any calculations to explain why I prefer to sell to trik, because exp/time does not equal fun*. 1 hour of boring steel + 29 minutes of fun helms are not better than 1.5 hours of fun helms, even though you might get faster exp the boring way.

 

*Don't forget, you play EL because you want to have fun :medieval:

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As someone that is antisocial and harvests silver all day to pay for his manu habit I find it a lot more 'fun' to get double xp from mixing the helms in the manu school rather then at trik or at storage and then muling them to trik. Sure you may be losing a lot more money by mixing the helms in the school, but by doing so you save yourself a lot of time in leveling manu.

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Sure you may be losing a lot more money by mixing the helms in the school, but by doing so you save yourself a lot of time in leveling manu.

 

You won't save time leveling manu in this way because you have to spend more of your time making money, than you would using Trik. In one load, yes, the school is better, but accumulatively, as for actual dedicated training of manufacture, Trik will save you more time leveling manu, because your money goes a lot further over the total time working on manufacture when you consider how long it takes to make the gold coins as well. As I showed in my first post, you get more than double the exp.

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At my current manu lvl I prefer schools. I mine Ti for money. I've gone from lvl 30 to lvl 35 manu in just a few days (if you count the number of days I actually logged on). That's faster than I have personally lvled using Trik. Also has a lot to do with what else you're doing with your life. I play on the pk server so a lot of time on main I'll harvest Ti while training on pk. And the manu school in WV is so dang close to storage I wanna hug it! So for now it works well for me. If it stops working, I'll change.

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Sure you may be losing a lot more money by mixing the helms in the school, but by doing so you save yourself a lot of time in leveling manu.

 

You won't save time leveling manu in this way because you have to spend more of your time making money, than you would using Trik.

 

You entirely missed my point. I stated that the time saved by not walking to Trik allows me to make much more money than I'd save by doing leather helms by him, as simple as that.

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Well Cruella

I like numbers too

In your interesting post you say that you pay 12K gc more for 100K manu xp in school instead of Trik

 

With my calculations the time saved for this 100K exp in school is about 1:30 hr

 

I don't know any way to make 8K gc/hr or even "much more"

(Iron at 3.5gc and 800 emu ===> close to 6K/hour in theory)

 

I understand that this 1,5 hour saved can be used to change subject do something fun or just relax etc

instead of repeating the same thing

but if you plan for a second,third "100K manu xp session" will need more time to get gc needed for them ,

slowing down your leveling

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Cruella, I did not miss your point. I'm saying that your point is not feasible.

 

I have timed the walks to get the ingredients repeatedly:

  • MM storage to Kelcha and back to MM storage takes 2:40 minutes.
  • PL storage to Lenard and back to PL storage takes 45 seconds.
  • Irsis storage to Derzelas and back to Irsis storage takes 1:30 minutes.

I've also calculated the time to walk to and from Trik to VotD storage as 2 minutes and the walk to the school as 0.

 

Taking these times into my calculations, I have figured out in order to make using the school more effective than hauling double the ingredients and using Trik, I need to be able to make 12.9kgc an hour or more in raw profit. I have not found a way to do that, if anyone knows, sharing the information is more than appreciated...

 

With 800 EMU, in order to get 100k manufacture experience (not using rationality or god in this example).

 

Trik

Helms: 2232

GC lost: 7411

Total XP: 100461

Time required: 144 mins

 

School

Helms: 1157

GC lost: 27002

Total XP: 104210

Time required: 56 mins

 

Note, the total experience between the two is different because they are being calculated as finishing full loads, rather than getting to 100k and just stopping.

 

Going to Trik takes 88 minutes more, yet saves 19591gc. Which means 13358gc per an hour must be made if, in the long term, using the school is better manufacture experience.

 

While I was thinking about this, it seems that, anyone with 380 EMU or less, may be better off using the school in Willowvine providing they can make roughly 8kgc an hour. The gc per an hour is realistic, but I'm not sure whether it is or not for the EMU given. Hrmm...

 

EDIT: removed some irrelevant information.

Edited by Zenial

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I don't know any way to make 8K gc/hr or even "much more"

 

That's a problem.

 

Anyway, no point to convince anyone, use Trik as much as you want if that is what you prefer.

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Ok so I know I'm resurrecting this post but I couldn't help it. The reason? Every bodies Math sucks!!!! :D yay!

 

Seems some variables were left out and I'm not sure where actually Zenial gets the final time numbers.

I'd also like to add a possible gc/min ratio so that we can figure how much is spent on time. To do this I asked people I know with 800+ emu(as the rest of this seems to be based on) at how much raw materials they harvest in an hour.

So purely raw ing. I get about 97.5gc/min.(this is at current silver rates with someone of 800ish emu)

 

So for Trik way, I'm gonna assume that the person starts in Irsis, then moves to MM, MM to PL, PL to VotD, then VotD to Trik.

 

So the formula for time to Trik is Time=((E2*2.67)+(F2*0.75)+(G2*1.5)+(A2*0.05)+(1.5+0.5+0.5+2))

 

E2 is Trips of leather, F2 is Trips for Thread, G2 is Trips for Food, A2 is the number of helms, the numbers next to these represent the amount of time needed for each action. The numbers at the end are the amount of time needed to travel to the sto in maps ing. are bought from npc.

**All times have been converted to decimal for easier calculations**

 

So using Zenial's chart of recycling gc the total time do to all the helms listed up there (7777 total if helm costs 23.12gc based on npc pricing) Total time needed would be 12 hours and 21 min, Travel costs using tele to portals (and assuming they can beam, or that rings cost nothing to them) is 2,067gc, and you have "spent" 72,247.5gc worth of time.

 

Why does it take so long? Well you assume that you are starting with 38,205gc but what people didn't figure is that to properly recycle you money you have to get it all back from Trik and then spend it again. So every single time there is a new column you are spending time doing trips again.

So after cycle 1 you are inefficient on trips to Feasting pots. After cycle 6 you are starting to be inefficient on trips to thread, and after cycle 8 you start to be inefficient on leather.

 

Ok so School. In this I am assuming the person starts in MM, goes to PL, PL to Irsis, Irsis to WV. I have also added in the time it takes to go from sto to school and back.

 

So formula for time to School is Time=((E2*2.67)+(F2*0.75)+(G2*1.5)+(A2*0.05)+(0.5+1.5+1.67+(ROUNDUP((A2/114),1)*0.4)))

 

Same variables as above only now we are only doing 3889 helms. So time is 4hours and 35min, travel costs 212gc, time "spent" 26,812.5gc.

 

That means in the time you save doing it this way you make 45,435gc. You also save 1,855gc in travel costs.

 

So even though you start with 38,205gc you have to add 47,290gc to that for added time and expenses= 85,495gc to lvl with trik

To lvl with School is 89,914 plus 212 extra expenses= 90,126gc

 

So the real loss in using the school is really 4,631gc

 

I will use school maybe I can turn some of those raw ing. into something worth 4,631gc in 30 more min :ph34r:

 

If you wish me to post my excel spreadsheet I did this on I can, I can also provide all variables. :)

Edited by Elf_Ninja

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Question regarding your calculation on the point where you claim Trik becomes inefficient: obviously a "Trik person" would get all the ingredients first, even those he expects to get the money back for. Is that calculated in there as well?

 

Question regarding travel cost/times (also ties in with the question above): 2k gc seems a bit much for one ICTPR and possibly one TPR... (Irsis -> MM, MM -> VotD)

 

 

Somebody should do the numbers for using school on scholars day...

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Question regarding your calculation on the point where you claim Trik becomes inefficient: obviously a "Trik person" would get all the ingredients first, even those he expects to get the money back for. Is that calculated in there as well?

 

Ok the original post theory was:

Orginal amount | Exp. Given

38, 205gc | 84, 402 (base exp + god (+20%) makes it 84, 402 exp)

30, 564gc | 67, 522

24, 451gc | 54 018

19, 560gc | 43 214

15, 649gc | 34, 571

12, 519gc | 27, 657

10, 015gc | 22, 125

8, 012gc | 17, 700

6, 410gc | 14, 160

5, 128gc | 11, 328

4, 102gc | 9, 062

3282gc | 7, 250

2625gc | 5800

 

So when I calculated I did my formula based on this decreasing gc path. If a person was to get all the ing and do them all at once the numbers can be run using the formula but a -gc amount would have to be added to the final equation.

 

(which thanks for posting I noticed and error in my math!!)

Trik formula should acutally read:

Time=((E2*2.67)+(F2*0.75)+(G2*1.5)+(A2*0.05)+(1.5+0.5+0.5+(ROUNDUP((A2/114),0)*2))) I forgot to add the bolded part as one cannot carry all the ing. in one trip to Trik, just as they can't carry all the ing to school in one trip! :PSo in reality at this point it is now much more profitable to go with school I will post new numbers at bottom.

 

If a person was to get all the ing before doing Trik way the totals are:

 

10 hours 52 min, Travel cost: 159gc, GC lost to Trik: 24,265gc Time loss: 36,712gc

 

So total lost this method is 60,977gc, Lost in School would be 53,414gc So in theory you save 7,563gc at school compared to Trik

 

This is of course assuming that you can make 97.5gc/min harvesting raw ing.

 

 

Question regarding travel cost/times (also ties in with the question above): 2k gc seems a bit much for one ICTPR and possibly one TPR... (Irsis -> MM, MM -> VotD)

 

Ok I'll try to explain this better I didn't want to do a uber-mega post but pry would have been clearer. Based on the Decreasing gc theory every time you spend the gc, you must then go and restock, Hench you actually have to take the number of ttr and multiply that by the number of times you do a whole cycle. So for getting ing. for Decreasing gc the ttr cost would be written:

GC=(13*(53*3))

There are 13 cycles in post, it costs approx. 53gc per ttr, and in the above path there are 3 ttr. So gc=2,067 subtract from that the 212gc it costs the person loading up on School theory and you get your extra travel cost of 1,855gc.

 

 

OK updated numbers due to my error in the formula:

Trik Decreasing gc method mentioned above:

14 hours 23 min, Time cost: 84,143gc, Travel cost: 2,067gc

Total loss: 86,210gc

 

School method:

4 hours and 35min, Time gain: 57,330gc, travel costs: 212gc, GC loss: 89,914gc

Total loss: 32,796gc

 

School method saves 53,414gc over Decreasing gc method if done as stated in original post!

 

Wow hope this helps and remember kids:

(Formulas for the win :P)

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if someone wants to work out how much GC ive spent getting to 61 manu lvl ( 70k away from 62 ) by using the manu school then go ahead be my guest it would be horribly depressing to find out :P

 

but without bothering entering the temple of extreme nerd calculations I can tell you the simple formula regarding leather helms and lvling manu

 

Leather Helmets + Manu School = Fast levelling of skill , you can quite easily do a few manu lvls a day at lower lvls

 

Leather Helmets + Trik = Slower levelling of skill , literally twice as long for the actual xp points , plus time needed for trips to and from storage instead of a few levels a day, you might be looking at a few days for a level ...... depending on where you are with the skill

 

Depends how much you care about your GC !!

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Hi Elf_Ninja,

Firstly, I'll admit it's been a long time since this topic was formed and I only vaguely remember my numbers. Also, I'm not playing EL lately, so it makes it a touch harder in practice.

 

Even so, please show me your excel sheet. :D I ~think~ I still have an algorithm made for this matter, which can also be viewed if anyone likes.

 

I don't agree with including time and ess/rings spent traveling, as I find it irrelevant due to both school and Trik needing to go to the same places only once each.

 

As I recall that decrease list is a little bad with rounding, but don't worry, THAT wasn't what I used in calcing.

 

I'll have a bit more time and patients for this later :P Thanks for the interest.

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One thing to factor in is that even if you sell to trik, you can do some mixing at store.

I take 93 sets of ings per trip & fill all unused slots with ready mixed helms.

 

This way I make fewer per trip - but do get the huge benefit of at store mixing.

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Ok since there is interest I went in and cleaned up my spreadsheet and made it viewable online. You should be able to adjust any of the variables in the top chart and it will adjust all the numbers in the sheet.

 

If you find an error with any formulas post here so that I can verify and I will adjust :D

Right now it is set to open so anyone can play with the document but if you do please try to reset it to base values when you are done.

 

The first column base values are as follows:

800

38205

=(4.67*3)+(2*4)+(0.24*5) Formula for helm cost

20

=ROUNDDOWN((C6-1)/7.11, 0)Formula for helms no carry

=ROUNDDOWN((C6-1-96)/7.11,0)+32 formula for helms carry

97.5

45

Here is the link:

Leather Spreadsheet

 

Hi Elf_Ninja,

....

I don't agree with including time and ess/rings spent traveling, as I find it irrelevant due to both school and Trik needing to go to the same places only once each.

It is pretty irrelevant in most of the formulas, but it is very relevant in the manner in which this theory was posted above. If you travel every time to gather your ing. again because you truly limit yourself to the initial amount of gc then it becomes a serious factor, seconds add up to minutes, minutes add up to hours.

 

As I recall that decrease list is a little bad with rounding, but don't worry, THAT wasn't what I used in calcing.

No worries new chart does all the rounding based on the entered amount of gc and emu

 

One thing to factor in is that even if you sell to trik, you can do some mixing at store.

I take 93 sets of ings per trip & fill all unused slots with ready mixed helms.

 

This way I make fewer per trip - but do get the huge benefit of at store mixing.

Ok added this method in, it seems to save you about 6 min. if you do decreasing gc method, and about 26 min if you do the buy up front method. You can check on chart.

 

Let me know what you think i'm interested in feedback.

Oh and please note the chart after the School method this gives you the total GC gained by saving time.

 

~Edit: you may notice some difference between the numbers I posted in above posts and the numbers on the chart. I found a few extra numbers in there that I added in the wrong places (multiplied a few things 2 times instead of once ;) ) and so fixed. But tested the new formulas and they are accurate now afaik. But it seems it is still profitable to use school just not as much as stated above sorry.~

Edited by Elf_Ninja

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Thank you for the link.

 

In my first post:

Also, when doing the loads to Trik, I think most haul leather + thread + food + needles, rather than leather + thread + food + needles + an inventory full of leather helms. So with this, One quarter of the leather helms are made at storage (hooray).

See the bit in bold!?! (I thought you read the posts before yours :'() Doing it without carrying an extra 31 leather helms is crazy talk. Weight of leather helm = 3. Weight of leather helm ings = 7+food. Thus, I'll only be using a small section of your spreadsheet. With such, I'm a little skeptical of separated "Trips leather" "Trips Thread" "Trips food" - of course this would have no effect on school outcome, but I will use combination (leather + thread + food + helms + needles) trips when looking at Trik.

 

Hi Elf_Ninja,

....

I don't agree with including time and ess/rings spent traveling, as I find it irrelevant due to both school and Trik needing to go to the same places only once each.

It is pretty irrelevant in most of the formulas, but it is very relevant in the manner in which this theory was posted above. If you travel every time to gather your ing. again because you truly limit yourself to the initial amount of gc then it becomes a serious factor, seconds add up to minutes, minutes add up to hours.

Again... the same time would be added to both methods and the same amount of 'gc' used. Therefore, it creates no difference between the two, so there is nothing to contrast[/b[. Yes, the time would add up... but it would do so the same for each case.

 

 

Be warned, this is before coffee posting, so I will return later to play with numbers and probably edit post with more concentration tonight. :)

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Thank you for the link.

 

In my first post:

Also, when doing the loads to Trik, I think most haul leather + thread + food + needles, rather than leather + thread + food + needles + an inventory full of leather helms. So with this, One quarter of the leather helms are made at storage (hooray).

See the bit in bold!?! (I thought you read the posts before yours :'() Doing it without carrying an extra 31 leather helms is crazy talk. Weight of leather helm = 3. Weight of leather helm ings = 7+food. Thus, I'll only be using a small section of your spreadsheet. With such, I'm a little skeptical of separated "Trips leather" "Trips Thread" "Trips food" - of course this would have no effect on school outcome, but I will use combination (leather + thread + food + helms + needles) trips when looking at Trik.

Yes that is why in this spreadsheet I cover all 5 possible ways you can level using helms. And you can actually carry 32 helms if I counted right. That is included in the variable Trik w/ Helms.

The Trips leather, trips helm etc are all based on the EMU entered at the top of the sheet(I used that standard stated in this post for my initial variable). You can actually change the EMU and it will adjust how many trips you need to make automatically based on the max amount able to be carried back to sto every trip and the amount of gc you are wanting to spend on your project. The nice thing about this chart is you can enter in your personal emu/gc and figure that out.

 

Again... the same time would be added to both methods and the same amount of 'gc' used. Therefore, it creates no difference between the two, so there is nothing to contrast. Yes, the time would add up... but it would do so the same for each case.

 

Actually not true, In the trik way there is 3 tele ports if you buy all ing up front. In the School there is 4. The main issue I have with the initial post is that it creates a chart like that which I made for ways 1 and 5 on my spreadsheet. It is a very bad way of lvling but is presented at the top as a way to recycle your gc:

"If the money from Trik is continually reinvested until we get to 0gc".

The problem is that most responses after that people have talked about buying all the ing. up front and then getting the gc back. That is not how the theory was presented, you would need a much larger gc investment then stated if that is the way this should be presented. And if you actually follow the path laid out in the initial posting it is a very long and expensive process. Because you HAVE to factor in that you will NOT get your gc back UNTIL you sell all your helms back to trik and then start your cycle over again. Hench Charts 1 and 5 on my spreadsheet. In each cycle you cannot buy your leather/fp/thread before you get your gc back therefore you have to travel there and spend the TIME to do it again.... and again.... and again....

 

Putting a price on time is the factor everyone has avoided. I came up with the number 97.5 gc/min(5850 gc/hour) based on some tests. But you can enter in your own personal value on time in this chart and decide which way is best for you. I've found through testing that 87.7gc/min(5262 gc/hour) is the break even point if you can make at least that per min then it is better to use the school, even if you buy your ing. up front. If not you are better of using the buy ALL upfront and carry helms to trik method.

 

That being said it is also worth noting that the higher your emu the more plausible Tirk becomes, but still does not make him more profitable in the end when factoring in time.

 

I'll admit that the reason I started this was not necessarily to prove you wrong although I could see it was in the math. I did it because I also wanted to know which is better. I have done both ways in my manu lvling, and in my in game experience I finally decided on the school as being better intuitively. But this process has helped me see the actual numbers that helped me come to that intuitive decision. If you want the link I provided you can even download a copy of the spreadsheet(in various formats) and check all the numbers and formulas individually. The reason I Declared all the variables at the top was so that I knew what all had to be factored into this process and how it related to every possible way to lvl using helms. If you don't declare all your variables you most likely will miss one along the way(which I did in my original post which is why i went back and added that chart at the top of my spreadsheet) and say that factor is not important enough to consider. Truth is it is important if you want to have a full understanding of the final outcome.

Things like:

...the walk to the school as 0.

...it's just that I think any leather-helming-school-user is wrong.

...I'll only be using a small section of your spreadsheet

Statements like that don't bring and objective and well rounded approach to the problem, you must be willing to address all arguments to be able to find the correct solution. If this chart had found that with the time factor added using Trik is inevitably cheaper then yes I would have switched. And yes some of the numbers I posted above I have admitted were wrong because I had added a variable in twice before I cleaned up the spreadsheet by declaring all variables properly, and when I found that issue I was ready to recount my statement that School was better but it turned out to still be more profitable with time even though it wasn't as much as I had originally come to believe.

 

Anyways I'm a long poster hehe hope that helps understand some of why I did this. And really if you can provide ACTUAL changes or errors in the formulas/math on the chart I am willing to change my position. But be prepared to show your work and don't leave out factors you feel are unimportant because you think so, you have to prove that they are unimportant.

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Not that I really care one way or another but to the aversion against buying up front, let's just remind ourselves that we're talking about people who are willing to take almost 1 million gc in losses (in one small area of their skill, see one of holar's posts in the manuf-strike thread) before starting to do something about that.

A less populist way to put it would be: If you want to spend x+y gc, with y being the total amount available for reinvestment, you could first make the x gc and cycle through with only your initial money left at the end or you could make the x+y gc first, buy everything up front, cycle through and have initial money+y left at the end.

Unless you are planning on doing only one or very few cycles, the second option is obviously better as it is faster when it comes to actually making the helms and you can use the y gc either for other things, use them by the slow method or simply take them out of your initial money and not have to "make" them in the first place (which by my first sentence should be quite possible for you :)).

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From Elf Ninja's Leather Sheet - Trik with Extra Helms:

Total: (10365 helms * 20gc ea. from Trik - ( 33271.65 GC loss + 2067 for Travel Cost)) / 936mins = 183.719391026gc/min

First Line: (1652 helms * 20gc ea. from Trik - (5302.92GC loss + 2067 for Travel Cost)) / 139.54mins = 183.962161387gc/min

 

I get about 97.5gc/min.(this is at current silver rates with someone of 800ish emu)

 

In theory, Trik is "paying" about double that.

 

Did I miss anything?

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From Elf Ninja's Leather Sheet - Trik with Extra Helms:

Total: (10365 helms * 20gc ea. from Trik - ( 33271.65 GC loss + 2067 for Travel Cost)) / 936mins = 183.719391026gc/min

First Line: (1652 helms * 20gc ea. from Trik - (5302.92GC loss + 2067 for Travel Cost)) / 139.54mins = 183.962161387gc/min

 

I get about 97.5gc/min.(this is at current silver rates with someone of 800ish emu)

 

In theory, Trik is "paying" about double that.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

 

Ok I believe the correct formula would be:

 

(Quantity*Item Value - Cost)/time= cost/time

 

In this instance it's:

(Quantity*Item Value - (Item Cost - Travel Cost - Time Cost)/Time= Cost/Time

 

(10365 helms * 20gc -(33271.65 gc loss + 2067 travel cost + (936mins* 97.5gc/min))/936mins = 86.21 gc/min

 

I think that's pretty much what the box under the school theory shows. Tirk with carry of helm with buying all ing upfront gets closest to being profitable but still is a loss of 11.29gc/min.

 

Also I reset the sheet as it seems someone deleted a whole box and I fixed two things Zenial pointed out:

Food cost is 6 and not 5 as I had it

Carry to Trik and School adjustment to include the higher food value.

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I was looking at the table.

 

G47 is =ROUNDUP(I43-((F56-F42)*C12), 0)

Why is the helm cost of Trik subtracted from the time cost of the school?

 

I don't agree with the "Gain" table, as the Time Cost is already taken in to account for Total Cost.

 

EDIT: Oh, and it should be noted that table 5 takes a fraction of the starting cost, to the other tables.

Edited by Zenial

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Not that I really care one way or another but to the aversion against buying up front, let's just remind ourselves that we're talking about people who are willing to take almost 1 million gc in losses (in one small area of their skill, see one of holar's posts in the manuf-strike thread) before starting to do something about that.

A less populist way to put it would be: If you want to spend x+y gc, with y being the total amount available for reinvestment, you could first make the x gc and cycle through with only your initial money left at the end or you could make the x+y gc first, buy everything up front, cycle through and have initial money+y left at the end.

Unless you are planning on doing only one or very few cycles, the second option is obviously better as it is faster when it comes to actually making the helms and you can use the y gc either for other things, use them by the slow method or simply take them out of your initial money and not have to "make" them in the first place (which by my first sentence should be quite possible for you :)).

That's alot of reading AND thinking, Buford. Is trik faster to level? (I like the yes or no answers).

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