Should bots be able to send messages in local chat?

[Aislinn]

If the bot owner is that concerned with being friendly, he should wave hi across the street himself.

o.O

 

How many bot owners stand next to their bots so as to be able to greet passers-by in a friendly manner? Besides... surely if they code such things into their bots, they would do it personally anyway.

You are a friendly guy. I like you. I would be happy if YOU the person greeted me in local if I pass by if you see me, I would be happy if you pm me because you thought "Hey, I wonder how Aisy is doing today, haven't chatted with her in a while, I think I will pm her and say hi."

The fact you put me on a list so an automated program will say "hey Aisy" when I pass it, does not impress me nor tell me you were thinking of me that moment and feeling friendly. It tells me I am not important enough to remember during your busy day and add my name to a list on a bot to do the deed for you.

*shrugs*

Call me silly, but it's just spam from a bot, it's Torg being friendly to somebody he likes when it's in person.

[sywren]

The RPG in MMORPG stands for Role Playing Game.

 

My biggest complaint about bots in general is the non-personal aspect of them. If the bot owner wants to add a bit of character to their bot, I believe this does add to the role playing aspect.

 

As has been pointed out, there's always #ignore. This game is based on the idea of allowing players to have choices (part of why we aren't running to NPCs for quests every ten minutes). Everyone has the choice to listen or not. This is just another aspect allowing role players to feel more at home with what would otherwise be a vending machine.

[LabRat]

So far the ayes have it. Not by much (10%) but they are in the majority.

 

For those that are saying "your poll options are too broad/didn't account for my specific choice" the yes is the important part of the vote not the how.

 

If the vote is carried that is time to deal with the specifics.

 

If it is not carried then the fact you want the bot to sing when it sees you is irrelevant.

 

I see already people are jumping on other people's viewpoints and I did put in the original post for people to be tolerant of other people's views. Implying one player's view is worth more than another's is wrong. A player is a player and as such should not consider themselves above any other player's opinion on something that has been put to public vote by Entropy.

[nathanstenzel]

I voted that they should be able to talk in local chat, but I don't like how the second piece of the poll was constructed.

 

It says only this or only that. It should have been more like allow this and allow that. One thing that should not be allowed is sales pitches in public. That would be a bit annoying. Something like "You don't look so good. Need a BR, SR, HE or something?" or something similar where the person is in the red zone for health could be sent via PM.

 

Comments on events should be restricted to those that are within sight of the bot. The bot owner should probably limit this so that it doesn't speak too often. Greeting everybody would be crazy. Bot owners should try to not have their bots make excessive local chatter.

[Mar(c)]

I wouldn't mind bots talking in local, if that were limited;

I haven't voted at the moment because the only limits listed are on the type of message

Same here, I didn't vote; my vote to the first question would be "Yes", but I don't want to vote for any option limiting the bot spam by type of message.

IMO local messages can be allowed, as long as some spam prevention is coded with it.

 

But it's an automated bot. It really doesn't care if you are there or not.

But that isn't the point.

IMO that is exactly the point -- does some piece of software really care about me walking by, or finding something while harvesting whether it is 12 gc or a human nexus removal stone? No.

If it's just a mindless line triggered by a simple event (like coming into bot's sight or hitting a blessing), it doesn't fill me with warmth at all. (Or in other words: IMO it doesn't add much to the RPG part of the game, or to the "personality" of the bot.)

I requested to disable Gossip greeting me for exactly that reason; Gossip: I'm pleased to see you looking so well, Marc! gets old very fast, especially when you hear it every other time you leave the underworld (!) or approach PV storage.

 

There is nothing stopping someone developing a complex AI that can attempt to have a conversation with someone (as has been done in the past). An automated bot can be programmed to attempt to be friendly.

 

I am interested in it because I wanted to develop a conversational AI into Trin. I wrote some basic functionality, but didn't get time to really investigate it in any detail.

And that is exactly what makes a big difference; mindless repetitive lines, versus (at least some) intelligence behind what the bot says.

I'm not saying that such an AI bot should be allowed to chatter away (in local), but it could add a bit of personality to a bot (as opposed to a mindlessly triggered repetitive line).

 

You are a friendly guy. I like you. I would be happy if YOU the person greeted me in local if I pass by if you see me, (...)

Call me silly, but it's just spam from a bot, it's Torg being friendly to somebody he likes when it's in person.

I agree completely.

A greeting isn't meant to be shouted across the street without expecting a warm reply.

That's what makes the difference between a bot mindlessly greeting me (does it expect me to reply?), or a player greeting (or congratulating) me and giving me the opportunity to reply something like "wtf! I'm bleeding to death and lost all my expensive armor, how does that make me look well?!"

 

to conclude/sum up, a few thoughts about:

spammy/annoying

<-- versus -->

(possibly) entertaining

simple trigger

coded spam prevention

mindless

some intelligence

always greeting owner and friends

restricting greetings to once per players per ... (in-game day?)

every (positive) harvest event

only rare events

no real purpose (besides being heard/known, or "adding personality")

(role-playing) purpose, like monster warnings

[tork_unib]

Yes, no limits.

 

Bots speaking in local doesn't annoy me at all to be honest, adds to the flavour of the game imho.

[DinkyDee]

I like the bots talking in local, but I don't agree with the options. The limit should be how many local messages are to be made in a short span of time...

 

Like someone brought up how Calliope greeted someone every time they entered her line of vision.. that's a big over the top.

 

I agree here - the option I'd have wanted to vote for is "Yes, but as long as it isn't too spammy or pointless."

[LabRat]

I like the bots talking in local, but I don't agree with the options. The limit should be how many local messages are to be made in a short span of time...

 

Like someone brought up how Calliope greeted someone every time they entered her line of vision.. that's a big over the top.

I agree here - the option I'd have wanted to vote for is "Yes, but as long as it isn't too spammy or pointless."

For those that are saying "your poll options are too broad/didn't account for my specific choice" the yes is the important part of the vote not the how.

 

If the vote is carried that is time to deal with the specifics.

 

If it is not carried then the fact you want the bot to sing when it sees you is irrelevant.

[sywren]

But it's an automated bot. It really doesn't care if you are there or not.

But that isn't the point.

IMO that is exactly the point -- does some piece of software really care about me walking by, or finding something while harvesting whether it is 12 gc or a human nexus removal stone? No.

If it's just a mindless line triggered by a simple event (like coming into bot's sight or hitting a blessing), it doesn't fill me with warmth at all. (Or in other words: IMO it doesn't add much to the RPG part of the game, or to the "personality" of the bot.)

I requested to disable Gossip greeting me for exactly that reason; Gossip: I'm pleased to see you looking so well, Marc! gets old very fast, especially when you hear it every other time you leave the underworld (!) or approach PV storage.

 

 

I like the AI approach, but even until then, some of us are still happy with simple script. I have my computer (I call her Vicky) set to greet me verbally every morning when I wake up and whenever I get IMs or other notifications. The majority of what she says, I scripted. That doesn't change the fact that I still like her to say "Good morning, SyWren." I created the playlist of music she plays after she greeted me. I've heard the songs many times. I still like it.

 

I have the same conversation with the guy at 7-11 every time I buy a Butterfinger Loaded. I change up Vicky's script more often than he does. I still like that, too (and Gossip has far personality than that guy. Vicky too for that matter).

 

I'm not insane. I realize that Gossip and Vicky don't really care about me. Hell, if I dropped off the planet, I doubt the guy at 7-11 would notice. Nonetheless, I get a simple pleasure from each of these exchanges and I would hate to see any of them end.

 

And you have to admit that the vending machine analogy is good.

[Learner]

But it's an automated bot. It really doesn't care if you are there or not.

But that isn't the point.

IMO that is exactly the point -- does some piece of software really care about me walking by, or finding something while harvesting whether it is 12 gc or a human nexus removal stone? No.

If it's just a mindless line triggered by a simple event (like coming into bot's sight or hitting a blessing), it doesn't fill me with warmth at all. (Or in other words: IMO it doesn't add much to the RPG part of the game, or to the "personality" of the bot.)

I requested to disable Gossip greeting me for exactly that reason; Gossip: I'm pleased to see you looking so well, Marc! gets old very fast, especially when you hear it every other time you leave the underworld (!) or approach PV storage.

 

 

I like the AI approach, but even until then, some of us are still happy with simple script. I have my computer (I call her Vicky) set to greet me verbally every morning when I wake up and whenever I get IMs or other notifications. The majority of what she says, I scripted. That doesn't change the fact that I still like her to say "Good morning, SyWren." I created the playlist of music she plays after she greeted me. I've heard the songs many times. I still like it.

 

I have the same conversation with the guy at 7-11 every time I buy a Butterfinger Loaded. I change up Vicky's script more often than he does. I still like that, too (and Gossip has far personality than that guy. Vicky too for that matter).

 

I'm not insane. I realize that Gossip and Vicky don't really care about me. Hell, if I dropped off the planet, I doubt the guy at 7-11 would notice. Nonetheless, I get a simple pleasure from each of these exchanges and I would hate to see any of them end.

 

And you have to admit that the vending machine analogy is good.

Yes, but do you want to hear Vicky greeting everyone else in the world exactly the same way as she greets you repeatedly?

 

P.S. I feel that a normal playlist must have at least 500 songs, mine normally has 1200+ for added variety.

[Ateh]

Voted yes

 

But with Limits

 

As in : You want your bot to shout HAI @ someone thats great im sure they enjoy being greeted

 

What I dont like : There was a bot in NC who at one point would shout random items at you as you walked past , a bit like '' aTeh !! im selling 2 pairs of iron greaves for x x x x pm me INv for more !1''

 

and tbh , that kinda shit spamchat from a bot is annoying , but ive only seen it once , perhaps twice

 

Plus, I dont see why a bot needs to remind anyone of the new harvest hour, if you are really that concerned about getting your harv xp for the hour, you will be keeping an eye on the time anyway wont you

 

Also dont see the need of a bot anouncing harvest events ?

[Rasool]

I voted yes :

 

I think it's a good idea that bots can be able to send local messages, i have had good moments with their funny comments but some bots really make spam, i don't like to say a name but they shouldn't be allowed to just send everything they want anytime. they should be restricted to very few in hour or so and just to some prescribed fields, like big harvest finds or greeting to just some limited player names and so...

Edited November 19, 2008 by Rasool

[dejan]

Dear EL players, especially those who are against local talk by bots, just think little bit what you are against! That is seriously insane, seeeeeriously!

HAVE YOU EVER BEEN ON A PUBLIC PLACE? Haven't you EVER heard guys selling newspapers on the streets, shouting news, trying to get attention of passengers, or similar case on any market place? You cannot possibly want to forbid their right to SAY SOMETHING!!!

 

Similarly, on EL, bot should be allowed to say ANYTHING that is NOT AGAINST THE EL-LAW! End of discussion.

 

Because EL is a PERFECT world, you have the all-mighty #ignore command !!

[Ermabwed]

HAVE YOU EVER BEEN ON A PUBLIC PLACE? Haven't you EVER heard guys selling newspapers on the streets, shouting news, trying to get attention of passengers, or similar case on any market place? You cannot possibly want to forbid their right to SAY SOMETHING!!!

 

Similarly, on EL, bot should be allowed to say ANYTHING that is NOT AGAINST THE EL-LAW! End of discussion.

There's a flaw in your analogy

[Burn]

NC, walk from NC sto to WS exit.

 

Count the bots.

 

Imagine a message from each bot as you walk past.

 

Lose track of any discussions you're having as the flood of crap drives the actually of-interest messages from real human beings off your screen.

 

 

Sava alone is quite annoying. All of those bots doing the same thing would make NC even more unbearable than it already is.

Edited November 19, 2008 by GoodDay2Die

[Ozmondius]

One of the most clever uses of public posting from a bot I have witnessed is the one near WS sto that warns of the gargoyles' presence. Nice work and adds to the game. I voted yes.

[Sir_Exeus]

One of the most clever uses of public posting from a bot I have witnessed is the one near WS sto that warns of the gargoyles' presence. Nice work and adds to the game. I voted yes.

 

This type of "Messages" is cool.

The bot greetings are extremly anoying :S

[kisegi]

I vote yes as I like the potential for creating a more responsive and immersive environment but I feel there needs to be strict limits. The ability to separate out local chat to a different tab helps a lot but public conversations in crowded places kinda has issues as channels are essentially private and local conversations intertwine. Throw in unregulated automated scripts and things might get messy.

 

Or maybe add in a way to color code local conversations? Just a thought.

[Burn]

One of the most clever uses of public posting from a bot I have witnessed is the one near WS sto that warns of the gargoyles' presence. Nice work and adds to the game. I voted yes.

 

 

I think that's the only reason that bot is allowed there, seeing as there's a rule against bots being too close to storage or harvables. There might be an exception such as that, but honestly that's the only valid exception in the game so far.

[Maxine]

I voted no since I have been annoyed in the past by bots talking in local. I now have most bots on #ignore (not using #ignore_bots, since I want to be able to make exceptions). The only local chat I do not mind are Gossip saying hi to a select list of players, she isnt trying to sell me anything, and Adarah warning for gargoyles at Whitestone storage, which serves a purpose for newbies at that storage.

 

Maxine

[Krrick]

I believe bots should be able to talk in local. And that their owners should limit the type and frequency of such communications to be reasonable for the circumstance their bot is in, which varies greatly depending on the location and surroundings of the bot.

[dejan]

Krrick, fair enough.

 

Still, I think people who are so easily annoyed should pay a visit to psychotherapist, because if they are easily annoyed when one bot tells something well-mannered, no matter how many times, and on top of that, that bot can be completely ignored, then those persons risk heart attack when something REALLY SERIOUS happens in their lives...

Or, they risk, at the very least, that someone will punch them in the face when they try to forbid their right to say anything they like in the public (free speech is the one of the basic rights in every democratic country, and protected by law).

[Aislinn]

Ehhh I am sure we can find plenty of references in these very forums stating EL is not a democratic country.

[dejan]

I got impression that we have freedom of speech, but not freedom of decision. That is basically what is the case in RL as well!

[Mar(c)]

Krrick, fair enough.

 

Still, I think people who are so easily annoyed should pay a visit to psychotherapist, because if they are easily annoyed when one bot tells something well-mannered, no matter how many times, and on top of that, that bot can be completely ignored, then those persons risk heart attack when something REALLY SERIOUS happens in their lives...

Or, they risk, at the very least, that someone will punch them in the face when they try to forbid their right to say anything they like in the public (free speech is the one of the basic rights in every democratic country, and protected by law).

Just like you, with that bolded sentence, give the people who express their opinion that bot messages should be limited a "punch in the face"?

 

A bot is not a living person.

Free speech applies to people, not to machines.

 

In EL, when a player spams (like advertising 200 iron ore at a storage every 2 minutes), they can be convinced by reasoning to tune it down.

When a bot spams (like greeting the same player every 2 minutes), there's nothing but drastic measures to stop it.

 

In RL, any person advertising something like newspapers on the street, uses at least some intelligence not to get annoying, since that wouldn't be very effective.

Automated messages on the street though..? *shivers*