Invisable rats

[Segor]

Well, maybe I can give it a try every once in a while.

 

Hope I can be online

[The_Piper]

It's not just a matter of a mistake. I would have been willing to look the other way, had he properly apologized for it. Instead, he decided to act defensive, as though it wasn't a big deal, and as if I was wrong to accuse him of cheating. Maybe in his mind he wasn't cheating, but as I explained to him, that was a blatant abuse of the game system, to perver the hardest to kill monster in such a way that it is the easiest to kill (and give a huge amount of drops to one player).

 

Sorry, but now i have to post. It isnt a big deal, it was easy to solve it, but you weren't willing to do that.

 

P.S. And not only that he didn't apologize, but he sent me a very nasty PM that I will not reproduce here, and I was very empted to ban him for good from both servers and the forums. It took a high level of restraint to not do that.

 

Sorry again, but i think, when theres a difference between a guy like me, who runs a char with admin rights and the god of a game, it would be a good idea to talk.

 

You didnt do that. You just told me in the latest forum PM, that it would be a waste of your time to talk to me. IMO the most worse way to handle any situation.

 

Well, maybe you are the god of knowledge. who always knows, what is right, and i am just a dumbass, but maybe you are wrong.

 

 

Piper

[Entropy]

Sorry, but now i have to post. It isnt a big deal, it was easy to solve it, but you weren't willing to do that.

The only thing I can say to that is "OMFG!".

So, you fuck up really bad, but it is me who has to solve it, yes? Well, I did solve the problem. If you wanted to keep doing invasions, then you should have apologized. You had multiple opportunities to do so, but you decided to blow each one of them.

 

As for the fact that you think it wasn't a big deal, that shows that either you still don't get it, or you don't give a fuck about me and about the PK server.

[bkc56]

It seems to me that people are talking about two different things when they speak of "the problem". What I see are:

 

1. The error of summoning many shy rats in a way that made them easy to kill. This is the big problem Entropy is concerned about which could lead to significant abuse and a flooding of the market with tokens and removal stones. Continued invasions of this type could also hurt the server's economy if enough "free" gc was introduced (the point Entropy tried to make with the lilac bushes).

 

2. The specific results of two such invasions. I think this is the "easy to solve" problem that Piper refers to. It required that Segor/Woodeh return their rat-droppings and a 1-day rollback (I think mostly to reverse the books that Woodeh had already purchased and read).

 

Now I admit that "easy" is relative on #2 since it did require time and effort for Entropy to do the rollback (and he required a fee be paid to do that work). But the point is that the damage done by those two inappropriate rat invasions was very localized and reversible (Piper could have fixed it himself if he'd understood the problem (#1) sooner). Had the invasions continued, it would have soon gotten to a point where the damage would no longer be reversible without a huge rollback (days, weeks) which would be very hard on players.

 

When Entropy speaks/posts, I think of problem #1. When piper speaks/posts, I think of problem #2. This makes everything they each say make sense, and explains why they don't seem to agree on the issues.

 

Then again, perhaps I'm the one that's totally confused and I should just go back to main, harvest dung, and try to get my harvest level to a more respectable number. :-)

 

In any event, the damage is done, repaired, and I hope we can move forward looking for ways to make the PK server less "dramatic" and more fun and inviting.

[Torg]

It seems to me that people are talking about two different things when they speak of "the problem".

I agree entirely.

 

If you wanted to keep doing invasions, then you should have apologized. You had multiple opportunities to do so, but you decided to blow each one of them.

See, this is one thing that doesn't make sense to me.

 

Apologising doesn't help solve the problem, especially if the person apologising doesn't understand the problem and why they are apologising.

 

Generally in any conflict situation there needs to be several things that happen in order:

- Firstly, you should talk to establish why someone thinks there is a problem, and understand how and why it came about. This means talking and listening from both sides.

- Secondly, there should then be an apology. Ent always jumps to this step first, which I think is the real major problem here. As Piper said, this "problem" could have been solved very quickly and easily (and eventually was in the form of the roll-back), but establishing why "the problem" occured in the first place (step 1) never happened.

- Thirdly, in order to make sure it doesn't happen in the future, there needs to be understanding of the overall vision.

 

As I see it, Piper is trying to do step 1, and Ent has already moved to step 2.

[Entropy]

Well, I think step 1 is pretty much obvious. I can not believe someone doesn't understand the problem (especially that other players acknowledged that it is a problem, and posted here and/or tried to talk to him about it).

[Torg]

Well, I think step 1 is pretty much obvious. I can not believe someone doesn't understand the problem (especially that other players acknowledged that it is a problem, and posted here and/or tried to talk to him about it).

But if he wanted to talk to you about it, then apparently there is more to it from his point of view.

 

*shrug*

[The_Piper]

Well, I think step 1 is pretty much obvious. I can not believe someone doesn't understand the problem (especially that other players acknowledged that it is a problem, and posted here and/or tried to talk to him about it).

 

Ok, you can believe, of course, what you want, but i guess, i should tell you, what i expected:

 

Since it looks like we are talking about 2 different things:

 

First, i would have expected, that you were shouting at me like

 

Hey, you idiot, what are you doing there? Do you know what that does to the game?

 

After that, you would have got a reply like:

 

Err... what?

 

Then there's the chance to tell me, whats your problem. (No, nobody was talking to me, when i sent you the first forum PM and asked what's going on, all i got was the first 2 posts in this thread.)

 

And i was under the impression, that the invisible rats drop a good drop from time to time, but not always. My bad then.

 

The next step might have been to tell me, not to do that again, and, if thats a big problem, remove the items and gc from the game.

 

That would be the way, i would have preferred to handle that situation.

 

Well, just my 2 cents.

 

Piper

[sywren]

And i was under the impression, that the invisible rats drop a good drop from time to time, but not always. My bad then.

 

 

That was what I thought, too. Not playing main means there's a lot I don't know about with the updates from the last year, especially when it comes to invasions and tokens and all that. I would have made this same mistake.

[Torg]

That was what I thought, too. <snip>

I would have made this same mistake.

Likewise. I expect it's a relatively common mistake until you've actually seen them.

[bkc56]

After a bunch of forum searching, the only "official" answer I could find was a post by Acelon where he says:

Invisible rats also have very good drops, you have a great chance to get an invasion token/perk removal stone/10k from them.

[bold for emphasis]

 

Notice he didn't say 100%, just "great chance".

 

If there's a post that documents the actual drop rate, I wasn't able to find it. I'm not sure how someone would know the true drop rate unless they asked Entropy.

 

For reference, the post is here: http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.p...st&p=472794

[Entropy]

http://www.eternal-lands.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=43780

 

Anyway, the fact of the matter is that he should have asked me if he can invade that monster, since at the time I gave him the permission to do invasions that monster wasn't there, so he didn't implicitly have the permission to use it.

[ProHibited]

They have spawned before on the pk server, and the drops were generously posted in channels...

[Segor]

They have spawned before on the pk server, and the drops were generously posted in channels...

 

If i'm not mistaken the first time invisible rats showed on the PK Server they were spawned by Radu, just after a server update, 5 of them and they were cleared by Handyman after a long time of searching. The information about the drops might have been posted on @1 but there is a big probability The_Piper wasn't online at that time as they weren't killed right after they were invaded, maybe on the day after or so.

 

The second time it was only 1 inv rat, I took it out during an invasion in DP. As it was only 1 rat, there is no way to learn about the rate they drop for those who didn't read the server update post Radu mentioned above. I did read it and that's why I was aware of the drops and joined the scouting.

 

This to say, it would be hard for somone who didn't read carefully the server update psot to be fully aware of the invisble rat characteristics. Even if they also play main server.

[Roja]

That was what I thought, too. <snip>

I would have made this same mistake.

Likewise. I expect it's a relatively common mistake until you've actually seen them.

 

Sorry but I just have to step in here to say something. When you're a mod you're told if you don't know about something to ASK first. Obviously anything messing with the game system needs approval before doing it. So not knowing what the invisible rats do/drop is not an excuse.

And everyone would have handled the situation differently-you can discuss that all day. Everyone thinks their way is the right way.

 

Go watch your soaps on tv guys.