Should Canned be moved

[bkc56]

When I originally got approval for placing PAL's sales bot Canned it was based on the bot placement rules from main:

 

• Not close to storage
  
• Not close to docks
  
• Not on normally traveled paths
  

But once Odin and Donkeh showed up I realized that Entropy isn't enforcing all those rules on the PK server. With three bots in VotD, and Canned off in the corner (out-of-sight, out-of-mind) I don't think he's getting as much activity as he could.

 

I don't want to send him to C2 because a future PAL bot may end up there one day. Also his inventory isn't going to change radically; he'll still tend to focus on training supplies: basic armor, essence, potions, etc.

 

So I was interested in input from others as to if, and where we might consider moving Canned to. Some initial thoughts include:

 

• VotD over by the other two so he's visible to people walking by (two continents, dozens of maps, and all three bots in a little cluster in VotD ).
  
• WS Docks (a bit far from storage, and not sure if there'd be enough traffic to justify the location).
  
• Portland (even more out-of-the-way, might be a special trip for people to go buy stuff).
  

I've kind of dismissed TG and NC as being even farther out of the normal traffic flow than PL.

 

So what do people think? What would benefit the PK server community the most?

[Kalix]

No canned is good right there

[Segor]

This is just my oppinion, but if you think the bot isn't getting as much action as it should, not making it worth your time and money to have a bot on the server, try to adjust the items that he buys/sells and the prices.

 

If we have 3 bots selling SR's for 16gc each, it's normal that people go for the bot that is on their guild or in an allied one.

 

What might have more influence on the bots trading traffic is probably the number of PAL members and allies, not the location.

 

On main server we have people traveling from C1 to C2 or vice versa to trade with a specific bot that has the better prices for a specific item. Just do the math and your bot might get some more activity.

[ProHibited]

Right in front of odin

[The_Piper]

Right in front of odin

 

lmao

 

No, i think, canned is fine where it is.

 

Its just that the bot doesnt sell the items i need, thats why i dont buy st00f from it.

 

Piper

[sywren]

(two continents, dozens of maps, and all three bots in a little cluster in VotD ).

 

Yes, but we also usually have 2 continents, 20 people, and 10 of them clustered in VotD, so it makes sense.

 

I've been thinking about it, and I think he's fine where he is. If you're going to change anything, I'd talk to Handy about maybe splitting up what the bots sell. For example, if one bot sells HE and the other bot sells SRs, you both might see more traffic for those two items.

Edited November 1, 2008 by sygon

[bkc56]

Another part of the problem is bot price wars. I sort of hoped we would avoid that on this server, but apparently not. For consistency I try to keep some of Canned's prices in line with the other two bots (when I can). I'll assume everything is fine, then a couple weeks later check and find out that they've lowered a couple prices to undercut me (or perhaps undercut each other and I just fall behind). I'll adjust some stuff, and a couple weeks later something else has been lowered.

 

It's a pretty short-sighted way to manage the market if you ask me. But then Canned is just trying to move some supplies, not undercut the market and try to make lots of gc. It's a different motivation. I'd like to be the low-priced bot for a while (wal-bot?) but I don't want to be a hypocrite, so I'll just adjust some prices again to match and see what happens.

 

 

"Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints..."

[handyman]

Best place for CANNED

 

At the moment i think VOTD is the best place for a Bot ( maybe come and join Odin and Donkeh)

 

Like others have said maybe its what you are selling

 

So far on this day Oct 31st Odin has had 31 trades by players other than myself from all guilds so he is used allot

 

But Odin is very low profit making i use him to sell some of the stuff i make and also to buy stuff that i need / the other items he buys and sells is meant to help the community. which it does by the amount they use him

 

Maybe the answer is specializing in certain items But this will only work if the Bot owners agree and not undercut each other or if they agree not to sell certain items that the other owners sell

 

 

 

 

Pricing and BOT wars

 

I also agree as Bot owners its up to us to set or keep the market in profit

On main so many items are sold below the cost of their ings on here if we all agree this could be different

 

Its hard though because like you have said BOT WARS will prevent this from happening unless we get together and agree on prices

We all want to buy and sell certain items on here, and gc is easy to get so items should sell for what they are worth and not under the price of their ings, but is this possible the more BOTS we have the more BOT wars we will have

 

I am happy to run at an agreed amount or even stop selling some items if this will help

 

Handyman Thor (owner or Odin)

[handyman]

OK been talking to Bkc56

 

I am Happy to give him rites over training armor

 

i.e. iron helms, steel chains, Aug sets, steel shield, leather boots If this will help Canned

 

I will remove the selling of these items from Odin but only if Liquid/his brother agrees to remove the selling of these items from Donkeh

 

Also If Bkc56 decides to move Canned near to Odin and Donkeh i say come join our party

 

Finally Bkc56 and myself also talked about Pricing and Bot Wars

 

We are both happy to get around the table with Donkeh's owners to talk about pricing and come to some agreements and adjust our Bots accordingly

 

Handyman Thor ( Odin's owner )

[kickany1]

I think he's ok there. The only reason I'd see him not getting traffic is if he was so far out of the way no one knew he was there. We all know where he is and any new players should find him with in a day or two of playing. That will probably change if you move him too far out of the way like Portland. This seems to be turning into a price discussion at the moment. I see no problem wanting to sell for a profit even if that means I have to pay more. To a point of course

[bkc56]

We are both happy to get around the table with Donkeh's owners to talk about pricing and come to some agreements and adjust our Bots accordingly

I appreciate the other offer (on training gear), but the above is the key point I think. I do NOT want the PK server to bot-war prices down to stuff selling break-even or at a loss (like on main). We have a chance here to do it right on this server, and I'd like to stabilize prices at values that are reasonable for buyers, but still profitable for the mixers.

 

PAL is willing to help hammer out some pricing policies. Perhaps on just a few items at first, and more later if it's working well.

 

I realize it's the PK server, but I'd still rather work to create a stable economy than try to kill it.

Edited November 1, 2008 by bkc56

[mrfancypants]

i agree, canned is out of the way.... but the things he sells is also a factor, as well as the prices.

 

I know that everyday i look at donkeh/odin, prices are always lower than canned, due to the fact that both liquid/handy want to have the lowest prices.

 

Truth be told, i look at odin first, then donkeh... then if i dont find anythign there, i look to canned. Its not only canned's prices are higher, but he doesnt really have a "good" selection of items for sale, at least none that i use. It would be great to see a better variety of items on him, and a better location would help as well. It is kinda out of the way.

[Geneams]

We are both happy to get around the table with Donkeh's owners to talk about pricing and come to some agreements and adjust our Bots accordingly

 

Handyman Thor ( Odin's owner )

 

Where is the monopoly police when they are needed? Bot owners organizing to set prices? Maybe I'm too newb at economics, but if the vendors in the economy are keeping prices artificially high, isn't the incentive to buy less and make more, which will just end up killing the entire economy, as apposed to letting the market set their own prices?

[Articenens]

Creating a monopoly isn't so easy when you can multi-play because the majority of the people just make their own stuff using 2 or 3 chars. When you are low level it is easier to buy supplies but once you get a decent level you can just make everything for yourself.

[Segor]

i agree, canned is out of the way.... but the things he sells is also a factor, as well as the prices.

 

I know that everyday i look at donkeh/odin, prices are always lower than canned, due to the fact that both liquid/handy want to have the lowest prices.

 

you always see Odin's guild prices, do not forget that.

 

about being out of the way as smoe people think, how about if we ask Radu to put all harvestables at votd storage, we won't need all those big maps, maybe keep only Isla Prima because we need Wraith and Valley of the Dwarves...

 

Lazyness rules

[Chosen]

We decided to not change anything on our Bot.

 

He's doing fine where he is.

[sywren]

We are both happy to get around the table with Donkeh's owners to talk about pricing and come to some agreements and adjust our Bots accordingly

 

Handyman Thor ( Odin's owner )

 

Where is the monopoly police when they are needed? Bot owners organizing to set prices? Maybe I'm too newb at economics, but if the vendors in the economy are keeping prices artificially high, isn't the incentive to buy less and make more, which will just end up killing the entire economy, as apposed to letting the market set their own prices?

 

There are very few "monopolies" even possible (unless you count Tanta and her damn CoLs) because of the make-factor, as you mentioned. I see your point about the potential to have too many independent players not trading, but keep in mind, that players, as well as bots, are benefiting from keeping prices above base cost of materials (as most items are priced on main). This is incentive to specialize and share in the profits, which requires leveling quickly, which requires time-saving techniques such as buying lower-level items like what the bots sell.

 

Maintaining higher prices on the bots helps players profit. What kills the economy is when bots start undercutting players. Bots should sell items for more than players. Bots already have the advantages of being on 24/7, advertising regularly, being conveniently located, and having a higher number of suppliers. They are the middle man.

 

How many times on main do people get frustrated because they've worked really hard to be able to make something, only to hear "but such and such bot sells for Xgc," forgetting that such and such bot has a guild of 75 people holding events to make the item in a couple hours.

 

Personally, I believe it is the responsibility of the bot owners to maintain prices that ensure players are being paid what their time, levels, skills, and investments deserve. I don't own a bot, but will gladly pay more for my HE if it ensures that I get my price for SRs.

 

Ah, dammit. Yet another post that's too long for anyone to read through.

[bkc56]

Perhaps long, but right on target. Besides:

... but if the vendors in the economy are keeping prices artificially high...

No one said anything about keeping prices high, just agreeing on prices that provide profit to the supplier and fair prices to the consumers (as the above post outlines).

[Segor]

Ah, dammit. Yet another post that's too long for anyone to read through.

 

Not realy lol

 

Very well stated oppinion that I must agree on.

 

If people get bothered with bot prices they have always one decision to sort all their troubles, stay away from them

 

bots have limited slots and at the moment we have a limited number of players, the few bots around should specialise according to guild production and server needs. If someone can produce and undercut prices on one item go for another that the server needs and no one else is supplying or that you can undercut prices...

 

This topic is getting a bit off topic isn't it!! or is it just me

Edited November 4, 2008 by Segor

[handyman]

I’m not after this turning into another slagging match but this is how it is

 

We as Bot owners do have the opportunity to help the market on this sever and keep the market in profit

 

If we can do this it would be much better than making and selling stuff at a loss

 

Odin and Canned are set to help the server/community for the best

 

We both buy items for a good price and sell for very little profit

 

Both owners of these two bots are not in it for the gc at this time.

 

We are trying to provide a service for players.

 

Because the server is nowhere as busy as main players have problems selling their items they make. So now they can, a lot of them are selling them to Odin and Canned

 

Donkey is set more like main he buys for lower than even the Npc’s buys for and on certain items if he makes and sells from ings he has bought on his bot then he is loosing gc. Don’t make sense

 

I guess soon he will realise this.

 

I am still going to match the high prices that Donkeh is buying at like 40k Binding stones and 11k efe’s etc

 

But Bkc56 if you want to set some prices on other stuff I am willing to match them on Odin forget about Bot wars

 

Don’t worry about Donkeh at this time, I have talked to players on the server 80% of the server already refuse to trade with him anyway and if your guild joins that then it’s only his 4-5 regular players (his guild members) that will buy/sell to him. so his pricing wont matter

 

We will be able to keep the PK server a profit making one again or for the time being

 

Anyway did you decide if your going to move Canned If so where is he going?

Also If you either contact me in game or post here a buy/sell price list on items you want to sell i wil match them too

 

Handyman

[ProHibited]

@handy's post #20:

 

I'm sure some of your allies say they agree with your points.

 

For the rest, this is just off-topic nonsense. (see post #1)

Edited November 4, 2008 by ProHibited

[kit_gw]

@handy's post #20:

 

I'm sure some of your allies say they agree with your points.

 

For the rest, this is just off-topic nonsense. (see post #1)

 

 

OMG Watch out everyone dont you hear the sirens? Its prohibited the Topic Police!

 

Anyway.. Totally understand you points of view as stated above.. CotM guild is plain and simple.. We supply eachother first.. If by a small chance that we can't make something in the guild we check bots.. Anyway.. No do not move the bot.. He is fine.. If you move south or head to the tavern you can't miss him.