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Question about the economy

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Well, one idea would be to lower the gc from flowers and increse it for monsters, but that would affect the noobs. Besides, if marro can make enough money, so should you.

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Besides, if marro can make enough money, so should you.

 

Marro is Rank 2 Attack and Rank 6 Defense... he can serp Yeti and A.chim... he's hardly suitable for comparison to 'average EL fighters'....

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@anyone against increasing gc from monsters:

if it isnt a good idea then feel free to come up with a better idea \o/

you know the problems in the economy, you seem to know whats a bad idea and what not, so overwhelm us with some brilliant plan to make it better then.

 

Ok, here's Pipers secret ebul plan:

 

Fight monsters you can fight with low level weps and armor, where you dont need loads of pots and essies to survive.

 

Then, surprise, surprise, you can make profit from fighting.

 

When i was training on ogres here, i was wearing ti chain mail, leather pants+boots, steel shield, NMT cape and CoL.

 

And if i'm right, i got like 2k gc per hour, used 4-5 SR's and like 20-30 HE's. And since ogres are friendly creatures, they gave me beside some other crap a ti chain mail from time to time, so i even wont care if they break the one i was wearing.

 

And i always had a good laugh at other ppl training there in full TI armor and serp or magic sword, when they broke their greaves/cuisses/plate and i just lost my stinking leather pants :)

 

Its a simple calculation: How much are you willing to pay for XP.

 

Piper

 

Edit:

Marro is Rank 2 Attack and Rank 6 Defense... he can serp Yeti and A.chim... he's hardly suitable for comparison to 'average EL fighters'....

 

You can. Just replace Marro and A.chim with something which fits together and it works.

Edited by The_Piper

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Ogres are more profitable to train than the vast majority of other creatures.

 

All that's proved by what you've said is that Ogres drop enough gc for their trainers... and i agree with that.

 

Different story for many other creatures though.

 

If you're doing Ogres, Piper, means you'll be at Cyclops levels soon... see how well your "secret ebul plan" works on them :)

 

EDIT:

Edit:
Marro is Rank 2 Attack and Rank 6 Defense... he can serp Yeti and A.chim... he's hardly suitable for comparison to 'average EL fighters'....

 

You can. Just replace Marro and A.chim with something which fits together and it works.

You cant. You have to consider how many HE's and SRS Marro has to use to kill an A.chim, how long it takes him on average to find and kill one, and then consider the average gc drop from an A.chim.

 

The only way a Cyclops trainer for example is going to make anywhere near the same gc per HE/SRS/time is buy going to Egratia point and monopolizing basically every single spawn with an Orc Slayer.

 

I can see that going smoothly.

 

EDIT: oh, and that wouldn't even get close to the kind of gc Marro makes per hour... i know, cause i tried to use Egratia in this fashion a while back.

 

EDIT2: and yesterday, i got the Feros cave all to myself for like 1.5 hours, i Ti serp'ed feros the whole time, even if i could do that all the time the gc wouldn't support any kind of regular armor breaks.

Edited by Korrode

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Ogres are more profitable to train than the vast majority of other creatures.

 

All that's proved by what you've said is that Ogres drop enough gc for their trainers... and i agree with that.

 

Different story for many other creatures though.

 

If you're doing Ogres, Piper, means you'll be at Cyclops levels soon... see how well your "secret ebul plan" works on them :)

 

Thats what i did the last times, when i was training here. It was close to ogres, but agreed, ogres gave me more useful stuff.

 

Then maybe find another creature. In my case, fluffy isnt a solution, bad xp, always eating my boots, costs loads of SR's and HE's and not that many drops, or better, good drops, as i got from ogres. Well, one NMT, so i wont really complain :P

 

Next problem is to find a spawn which fits for you. And i havent found a nice fluffy spawn, which is empty and close to a storage. Well, its all up to you to go exploring and find the creature/spawn which fits for your needs.

 

Even if you get bad xp from that creature, it might be worth fighting it, when you dont need to run for hours to the next storage to restock.

 

Well, just my thoughts :(

 

 

Piper

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This will prob not help in any way, but here is the difference between the rl economy and the el economy, for me and my character. First of all, in el, I have no family to feed and no bills to pay. If I want to, I can spend gc just as fast as I make it, or I can horde it, not spending anything, harving iron to sell, and only buy picks from time to time. Second, I often give away items for free, to guildies, friends, or even to new players. It's the "pixel effect" if you will. Third, there is really no labor cost in el, much unlike rl.

 

I myself have never really understood why some items are worth less then the ings, does not make sense to me.

 

Final thought- I have no problem with shop items in game, if I spent as much time and effort on this game as Radu does, I would expect some kind of compensation. While being "teh god" does have a number of perks, I doubt the grocery store gives a shit about them, nor will they accept them for barter.

 

 

ROLL TIDE

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So basically what Piper is saying in the context of this thread is :

 

All skills have to choose between profit or xp, if you want to make a profit expect low xp, and if you want to make xp expect a low if any profit. So manuers thats where you have been going wrong, you should make great swords for good xp but no profit and leather helms for low xp but gold ... genius :)

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So basically what Piper is saying in the context of this thread is :

 

No.

 

What i mean is, you have to find the balance between XP and profit.

 

And you have to make the decision, how much you are willing to pay for XP.

 

Thats the amount of essies, SR's, broken armor, you are willing to accept to get XP.

 

If you want more XP, invest more in armor, essies, SR's by, for example, buying stuff from the shop

for real money and sell it in game, to buy stuff to train.

 

If you dont want that, expect less XP, but less costs too to train.

 

Its all up to you. Find out, what is right for you. Waste a lot of stuff, like armor+essies+pots and make somehow gc's to buy them, or do something else, like alching.

 

But it is not impossible to be a fighter in this game and make profit.

 

What you are talking about, is training to become a top 10 fighter for free.

 

And as much as i understand of EternalLands, that shouldnt be that easy.

 

Again, my 2 euro cents :)

 

Piper

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What you are talking about, is training to become a top 10 fighter for free.

 

And as much as i understand of EternalLands, that shouldnt be that easy.

 

Not at all , I gave up expecting to make a profit from training months ago

 

My point was, what you said about fighting can also be used to describe other skills and how they have to balance Xp vs profit and Expect to sometimes to make a loss for that little extra xp.

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My point was, what you said about fighting can also be used to describe other skills and how they have to balance Xp vs profit and Expect to sometimes to make a loss for that little extra xp.

 

My point is, you have to find a balance, which fits for you. Goldcoins versus Experience.

 

You have to find the char layout/game play, which fits for you, i have to find the same, which fits for me.

 

Thats the game, make decisions which fits for you. Dont expect it to be too easy, thats what i've got from playing EL for some years now :P

 

And if this sounds too official, no, i am not an official person of this game, thats just my experience, what i've got over the years ;)

 

Piper

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If you are a manuer, here are your choices - players do not buy leather helms so scratch that one, you can sell leather helms at Trik with 2-3 gc/piece loss or burn gc's at a crazy rate gaining crazy exp as well by doing leather helms in a manu school ... ;)

 

Fighters at least have a choice - go barely dressed and bash lower lvl creatures for pure income with shitty exp but with no loses or to maximize a/d exp at a risk of armor breakage and average/low income.

 

IIRC since starting female orcs I was not losing money while training a/d (and still not losing now being on fluffs). I admit, I train reasonably, only when my degrade astro is good, and never longer than 2 hrs in a row (unless it is Sun Tzu :P). I haven't lost a single piece of weapon or armor for months. So I second what Piper said above - you need to find a balance between your desire to maximize exp and to minimize cost / maximize income.

 

And if you still think the life of a fighter is difficult financially, just look at ranging :-P

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So basically what Piper is saying in the context of this thread is :

 

All skills have to choose between profit or xp, if you want to make a profit expect low xp, and if you want to make xp expect a low if any profit. So manuers thats where you have been going wrong, you should make great swords for good xp but no profit and leather helms for low xp but gold ... genius ;)

I could not have put it more succinctly.

  • If I want gc - I go serp trolls in CM - you will be amazed how much gc you get from them and at virtually 0 cost - 100+ kills per restore. They drop loads of books, the odd cape & even rosts.
  • If I want exp, I ts and go train in Bethel with 4DCW on me. The cost on HE/SR is huge and I am likely to break armour.
  • If I don't feel like either, I go find a happy medium, some gc, at some cost with some trisk of breakages.

Now apply that to summoning...

  • If I want experience - buy all ings, and I go summon Dragons, or make high level stones - huge exp, huge gc loss.
  • If I want a profit I mix spiders and harvest my own ingredients.

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To address some of the points in this thread:

 

Price collaboration between suppliers has been tried several times in the past. It was never successful because as many have pointed out there is always someone willing to sell for less.

 

I have a bot and I don't sell stuff for less than my cost. Any item I can't sell at a profit (or break even for a guildie) I don't make. If I have to start paying more for steel bars (for example) I try to remember to re-compute all affected selling prices. The advantage of the bot is patience. My bot can sit there all day and wait for a buyer that is willing to meet my price. If the wait is too long some price adjustments may be made. The same for items she buys - a bot (and also a player) doesn't have to beat the best prices to make a trade.

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let me comment few things about this GC making, and also exp..

 

For fighters, even for noob a/d ones... if u want to make gc from monsters you go serp them, if you want exp, u go barehanded, u kill less, so u get less gc, but u get the bigger exp.. if u want Pro exp, u go multi DC or MC or Feros or w/e u can do, but then it is he/srs waste and also big chance to breake ur armor. but u take a risk for teh exp.

Also there is couple of monsters which gives u more gc's regarding its lvl, like i think Raz said -> Trolls, but also phantoms is a great gc droppers, as well as dropin S2Es, AEs and even 6 bones. if u can kill them its easy to make 5k+ gc/h :P

 

For manuers... i can not think of item which gives u profit if u buy all ings.. its all a loss.. and then, the bigger exp = bigger GC loss.

 

For alch.. well there is few items which gives u proffit even if u buy all ings, but u can expect low exp on those items. and yeah, i know what u think already: "those Hyd bars gives u tons of GCs". in fact it does give u proffit, but some ppl dont understand whats involved in getting hyd ores, and then making hyd bars themselves.

and it is more or less same for other skills, but hey i wont argue about them, i dont lvl others cuz its a gc waste... well i think so.... except Pot and summ :P

Edited by Kornholio

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For manuers... i can not think of item which gives u profit if u buy all ings.. its all a loss.. and then, the bigger exp = bigger GC loss.

S2E are break even - if you buy everything (just) - but if you mine your own hydro / trade for ore - they are profitable.

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For manuers... i can not think of item which gives u profit if u buy all ings.. its all a loss.. and then, the bigger exp = bigger GC loss.

S2E are break even - if you buy everything (just) - but if you mine your own hydro / trade for ore - they are profitable.

 

 

well u can get profit from s2es if u sell them at 900+ ea aswell, but thats something like (it was mentioned somewhere above) selling steel cuiss for 30k....

an average price is lower than price for all ings . average (850-875) if im wrong about loss here, pls correct me

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For manuers... i can not think of item which gives u profit if u buy all ings.. its all a loss.. and then, the bigger exp = bigger GC loss.

S2E are break even - if you buy everything (just) - but if you mine your own hydro / trade for ore - they are profitable.

Getting paid less for a manufactured item than you could sell the ingredients for.......

that is not being paid as a manufacturer. That is being underpaid as a harvester and then used as a free manufacturer.

 

I wish people would realize that. It would be about time.

 

If people want to bother to harvest the ingredients for items, then just sell the ingredients and stop messing with the damned prices of the finished goods by mixing them into items and charging less than you could sell them unmixed. Obviously, such an annoying practice just totally pisses me off.

Edited by nathanstenzel

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EL was originally designed to be a classless game afaik, so no point to insist to make each skill profitable on its own, while combining just two does a job very well. Taking hydro ore as example, only harvesting and manufacturing are needed to make decent income, and it is getting even better when combined with alchemy to produce own bars. Personally I do not find it tempting to buy all ingredients and then manu, manu, manu - it is boring as hell and agreed, not profitable. I understand not everyone has a time to harvest everything, but if you just buy steel bars and make the rest on your own, you can get roughly 24% income on bars, isn't that sufficient? Also harving and mixing will raise your OA nicely, much better than if you just manu.

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well ok Cruella... im doing it .. buying all ings for s2es ( sometimes steel bars if im lucky), mixing steel, iron bars. then im getting some1 to make s2es for me, sso no gc loss on s2e fails ... and when i count s2e price , which i get is +- 875gc... so it is the same as to buy s2es... why even bother and involve all ings buying, bars mixing ? no profit! and if i mix s2e myself.. with lvl 52 manu i managed to fail 4 s2e of 10, on normal day and 0 fail astro... so u say it might be profitable ? :P

 

only harvesting hydro is profitable, all that runing with 25-31 s2es in ur inv, get a bit of risks to be killed, harv, mix, here u go a fresh hydro bar.. now u will get ~1.5k proffit... oh wait u failed bar ?

 

well i think it is enough only 6 inorg nexus for hyd and mm cape to harv it, u can always sell hyd ore to bot and do not risk to fail it. no levels is needed.

everyone can do it.. is that fair ? who cares? i bet u dont

 

Edit: one thought came in. Ent mentioned that it is possible to lower gc from flowers and put some on monster drops. Well i think it would be "fair", ppl who wants only train theyr a/d and nothing else, could get some extra gc to cover expences for SRs/HEs needed and armors (new or broken). Ofc this would be bad for newbs, but hello why noobs needs as much GCs/h as those who is more or less advanced in a/d? well u can say that it is good to have nubs runing around in full tit serping orcs or ogres.... but i dont think so :P this thingy would be good for market in general , cuz these who harvests lupines in PL would go and harv some ores, which has a big demand, and make gc that way. so maybe we would have prices for those ores and some rare stones from harvests, to go down a bit. that would lead to smaller costs of those unprofitable items we all were talking about :)

Edited by Kornholio

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All I know is that I'm slightly lower in manu than you and I make profit on making hydro bars, what else can I say ? I manu all s2e's by myself (made a couple of modables as well), never bought a single s2e. I do not count that few that came from drops. All I buy is iron ore (about 70%, the rest I mine myself) and steel bars (about 30%). I'm in a final phase of 70 bars project, we will see what's an outcome when i finish but I'm pretty sure I'll be pleased. I'm already pleased with all the exp that came along the way to have s2e's ready to be used, and harving and smelting will make it even better. Maybe I'm just an optymist, eh ?

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well you see, as you harv alot of ings ur self, ofc u will have a bigger profit, than those (like me) who buys them all. that all leads to time required for the finish product. u know, i accept smaller profit from 1 hyd bar, if make more of them, oposite way, if i harv all my ings ill need much much more time for teh hyd bar, i think proffit would be same in general but i will get much more alch exp :P and well... im not doing it all for alch exp, hello my lvl is far from enough for hydro bars and all other things, make me a surprise and gimme new bars to mix :P

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Besides, if marro can make enough money, so should you.

 

Marro is Rank 2 Attack and Rank 6 Defense... he can serp Yeti and A.chim... he's hardly suitable for comparison to 'average EL fighters'....

 

Have to agree with Korrode on this one.

 

Only Yeti trainers and above (Artic Chim) can make gc like Marro did.

Ill explain:

Out of the fighter base in EL theres only a small group that can do Yeti. Out of that small group theres an even smaller group that can do Artic Chim aswell, and from that very small group theres only a few players that have the time to train 8-10 hours a day like Marro did.

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Besides, if marro can make enough money, so should you.

 

Marro is Rank 2 Attack and Rank 6 Defense... he can serp Yeti and A.chim... he's hardly suitable for comparison to 'average EL fighters'....

 

Have to agree with Korrode on this one.

 

Only Yeti trainers and above (Artic Chim) can make gc like Marro did.

Ill explain:

Out of the fighter base in EL theres only a small group that can do Yeti. Out of that small group theres an even smaller group that can do Artic Chim aswell, and from that very small group theres only a few players that have the time to train 8-10 hours a day like Marro did.

 

8-10 hours? man when I used to play he was permanently online,I've almost never seen him off,and yes I played alot...

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