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Resource shortages idea

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from a fighters point of view this seems horrible, last week(end?) Boedha/me spended about 300k gc on just training/pk.

no profit out of that, just losses.. broken stuff that needs to get repaired, new pots/He's etc.

 

prices shouldnt rise imo, cant just keep adding things that cost alot of gc/increase price without adding something to make some or alot of profit from. (besides harvesting xd)

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I was think that it would be cool to simulate some RL events in the EL economy.

For example, resource shortages: Every RL week, one RANDOM harvesting resource would not be harvestible.

There are a few advantages to that, such as:

1. The items made with that resource will be more expensive.

2. Would allow for a better "Commodity market", and some speculations as well.

3. Get rid of some resources in the game.

 

So what do you think?

If you are against that idea, I want an intelligent post, replies such as "omfg", "ruin/destroy" will be deleted and the posters posibly banned from the forums.

 

My initial reaction is that I dont like the idea as defined. It sounds more like another 'special day' except it occurs every week - I assume on the same calender day (or would that be random too).

 

I look to the 'No Harvest Day' as an example and to me does not seem to impact or change prices for either the resource(s) or item(s) produced from them.

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Yeah I really like Usl's idea

 

I also like this idea, would get more people using those hard to reach resorces that only the real explorers and the hell spawners know.

 

( I am nither and really should explore more)

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@radu: it will be such a great improvement to have seasons, will make the game even better :P , maybe it will be much of work, but once it's done, it will look great

 

This idea also requires 2 or 4 version for a lot of objects and textures. Not really doable with the resources we have.

 

Maybe the seasons can represent in lighting or in sky and two or more weather effect only, so no need to redraw everything. It can be something like the astrology: we have never seen the moons and planets around EL world, but we feel their presence via MN or other events :-)

More simpler: the seasons can be implemented first as the extension of already existing calendar system (simply writing out which season is or put a calendar on the main webpage where we can see what are the harvestables in that season).

Edited by csiga

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Usl's suggestion is great as well. In fact, I might do that instead.

 

I wont like that to be honest.

 

The idea(s) are great, but the way how to implemet it is not.

 

I would suggest something like a resource has a limit for a day or a week, and then its off and needs to regnerate for a day or a week.

 

Example:

 

Every titanium ore spot has a limit of 1000 items per day.

 

The Portland Ti mine has quite a few spots, but when the players got 1000 ti ores from each ti ore spot in Portland Ti mine, the mine is empty for a day or two (the spots have to regenerate).

 

So players have to move on to the next titanium mine, but the mine itself is still open, so fighters can still train on skellies in the Portland ti mine.

 

Same with flowers, veggies, fruits, gems and so on.

 

When one spot is empty, move on to the next one.

 

The amount of 1000 per spot is not carved in stone, i am pretty sure, radu will be able to do some analysis and fiddle around with the number of items when one spot is empty :P

 

Piper

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@radu: it will be such a great improvement to have seasons, will make the game even better :P , maybe it will be much of work, but once it's done, it will look great

 

This idea also requires 2 or 4 version for a lot of objects and textures. Not really doable with the resources we have.

 

Maybe the seasons can represent in lighting or in sky and two or more weather effect only, so no need to redraw everything. It can be something like the astrology: we have never seen the moons and planets around EL world, but we feel their presence via MN or other events :-)

More simpler: the seasons can be implemented first as the extension of already existing calendar system (simply writing out which season is or put a calendar on the main webpage where we can see what are the harvestables in that season).

 

That is true, EL season dont have to be based on RL, EL could only have 3 seasons.. Dry/Normal/Rain and depending on the season the harvest speed of certain item could be reduced or increased.

 

Ie: Rain season: Ogre toes,toads,shrooms etc harv speed is increased but due to the excess rain all cavern harvestables are slower or have increased chance of rock falls etc.

 

And hopefully no need for differant maps per season (just how often it rains etc)

Edited by conavar

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Wow, this is a really great idea.

 

It will help map "popularity" be balanced out and players to explore more.

 

I guess i like the idea. It would be weird seeing someone buy iron for 10gc tho.
I can never see anyone so desperate for iron ore they pay 10gc each rather than move to another iron deposit.

Despite what other people have said, I don't think the market prices will change too much because for most resources there is more than one place that is good to harvest (mainly found by people trying to stay on the continent they're on)- only differing a few seconds in the walk to storage OR I'm sure players could find something else to do for a while (finding other things to do for a week is a long ask, but oh well). It would be great if this idea affected outdoors resources too. Which is where I prefer the original concept over usl's.

 

I imagine, some places would have to be unaffected by this idea otherwise newbies will get bored due to having no where else to go and nothing else to do due to low levels; unreached ignore levels, sulfur needed to level alchemy, the need to make money.

 

second idea is to limit the amount which one resource (creature/harvest/npc) can be used.

For example; If one or two players buy out all Mira's Feasting Potions (I'll leave it to you guys to consider the amount she'd have for sale). Any other player would have to go to Derzelas in Irsis until Mira's amount of Potions regenerated. By making limits on creatures, harvest items and npcs, players will be forced to move! :P

Can I has a c00kie? :P Just joking.

 

This will be great :D

 

EDIT: just a thought, what about bots in caves? Under usl's idea, will bot owner's be annoyed by no one being able to buy to/sell to their bot, because it's locked in a cave?

Edited by Zenial

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PS seasons will probably never happen from a map making point of view. Too much effort from us for something pretty minor (plus the download would increase a lot since there is now 3-4 maps per area.)

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i dont like the (original) idea..

 

though i dont think it will affect the game that much honestly.. people will adapt and change there habbits to fit any change in the game.

 

but if one of the ideas presented HAD to be chosen.. i'd pick Usl's..

 

but like i said before. a change like this will not affect the game that much. people adapt.

 

#edit Why make things harder? i see no benifit in this for EL or its players.. unless i just dont understand correctly? if thats the case then some one please explain it to me?

 

It has already been said once. using great swords as an example. but it is true with many things. the cost of making something outways the selling price on market. if we caused shortages some how then it would increase the prices of some ings used to mix. but the total value of the product would stay the same. just causing players who mix to lose more gc's in the process..

 

so im against this idea in both aspects.. but like i said.. if i HAD to choose one.. usl's idea is the one i'd pick..

Edited by jizzy

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To be completely honest. I absolutly hate the idea! Its hard enough to get resources as is. Buying iron ore at the moment is rather devilish (although I haven't tried tooo hard either). And I personally know one person he pretty much didn't play the whole time the trice were in Kusu. Of course he is a creature of habit. But then aren't we all?

 

Putting aside my absolute personal loathing for the idea. I think its a very good one. Or rather I think different parts of different idea's are good.

 

I LOVE the idea of using the seasons. wet, dry and inbetween. Having some things harvest faster and other things harvest slower. Or have certain events that increase in certain places at certain times.

 

I wouldn't mind disallowing havresting in certain area's at certain times. Due to floods, mine breakage, drought, or a destroying invasion. I think that would add alot of depth to the game. (as an aside I would really love to see seasons. Perhaps opposite for each continent. Although I do understand thats not going to happen it would be fantastic)

 

It would be interesting to work together to get a place back into shape and usable. More so then just killing the monsters. Say add a few engeneered items to "use" on things and mines to get them functional again.

 

On the otherhand I really hate the idea of relying on fighters (not some scorn). As it is they don't ususally pay enough to make items worth making. Yet we continue to make and sell for underprice. I personally don't make he's to sell anymore since its not worth it. I loose gc (bone eater).

 

I also find the idea of limiting the amount of havrestable from individual items interesting. It can be havrested for so long and then it needs a break. I can just imagion the lupin bush in pl. It would be a) haunted or :P deserted. It would also follow the natural rythem of the world more closely. Perhaps if it was combined with the season idea?

 

IE: Roses havrest faster in the summer. However you can ahrvest more of them before the plant needs a rest in the spring. In winter its "normal" or it havrest the normal speed and has its "normal" replenish time.

 

IF havrestables follow the limitation idea I do think that "newbie" items should be exempt (say level 1 flowers, and sulfer and maybe coal. Or maybe just DP and VOTD are exempt). I also beleive that they should follow ingame day's. Lets out them to mroe use them just the 6 hour period between chances for special days!

 

So, I agree wit hthe ideas. They offer an interesting change. HOPEFULLY they would make market prices fluctuate.

 

At first I thought 1 rl week was way too long. Maybe 1-2 ingame weeks. But really. 7 days, 7 whole RL days would change what people had in storage. A day or two or 14 ingame days doesn't make that much of a difference. It just makes a major annoyance.

 

I will defintily look forward to seeing something implmented. EVEN if I grumble about it.

 

btw: I would really liek to see it implmented as a trial for a month or two before it becomes permanent. Allowing you and us to see how it runs, get a taste of it. And perhaps find ways to tweak it for the better.

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The ideas are good. But I think that they will just create more hording of material.

 

my reasons are cause I'm just starting to get in the manu skill. I make items as needed or if I level the skill and make 2-3 new items i can make for myself.

 

Otherwize, I hold onto the items for special days like recycling, or make rare days.

 

In my opinion, if an item becomes unharvestable, well I just gather the other ingredients for the week until they become harvestable again, it will just set me a higher goal of the ingredients i couldn't get for next week. So I guess now the situation made me start hording the ingredients. ( cause I'm not paying no higher price, I refuse to buy goods at a higher price than normal Instead I'll just go get it myself.)

 

I myself get and make goods as I need them for which ever I do, I can wait, I start to hord sulfur when efe are set to 0. there are many things i can do or gather as I wait for the week to pass. Although for new people this may stray them away from the game. I'm addicted, I'm also rounded to the point of where i can deal if there is a change. But If i couldn't harvest my goods especially if i have 0 gc as a noob i say screw this I can't fight my wolfs without being able to make my he's to cast heal because i can't harvest silver, let me see what other games are out there since I'm at a stand still.

 

If you fell someone is hording, why not just pm them to ask why, and if their reason isn't good enough for teh G0d, then give them a time limit to reduce the amount or it will disappear.

 

Either way I'm down with the idea, just care for the the newly starting noobs, they are soo limited on what they can do in the beginning.

Edited by Zephlix

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I was think that it would be cool to simulate some RL events in the EL economy.

For example, resource shortages: Every RL week, one RANDOM harvesting resource would not be harvestible.

There are a few advantages to that, such as:

1. The items made with that resource will be more expensive.

2. Would allow for a better "Commodity market", and some speculations as well.

3. Get rid of some resources in the game.

 

So what do you think?

If you are against that idea, I want an intelligent post, replies such as "omfg", "ruin/destroy" will be deleted and the posters posibly banned from the forums.

 

Will "big pain in the balls" get me deleted? :P

 

Seriously, it could go either way - it could make the economy more dynamic and interesting, or it could just be annoying. If n00bs couldn't harv lupes for a week, they might find it frustrating and be put off to the game, or if training came to a screeching halt because no silver was around for HES.

 

A week sounds like a long time, though. Seems like people would blow through their stock long before the week was up.

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Reducing resources will have the effect of increasing the price of the resource and decreasing the quantity of both the resource and the items made from them. The increasing price of resouces will have an inflationary effect on the economy and the deminishing quanities will encourage hoarding of existing resources. :Pgallery_40595_60_9294.jpg

Edited by LotusBlaze

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Usl's suggestion is great as well. In fact, I might do that instead.

 

I wont like that to be honest.

 

The idea(s) are great, but the way how to implemet it is not.

 

I would suggest something like a resource has a limit for a day or a week, and then its off and needs to regnerate for a day or a week.

 

Example:

 

Every titanium ore spot has a limit of 1000 items per day.

 

The Portland Ti mine has quite a few spots, but when the players got 1000 ti ores from each ti ore spot in Portland Ti mine, the mine is empty for a day or two (the spots have to regenerate).

 

So players have to move on to the next titanium mine, but the mine itself is still open, so fighters can still train on skellies in the Portland ti mine.

 

Same with flowers, veggies, fruits, gems and so on.

 

When one spot is empty, move on to the next one.

 

The amount of 1000 per spot is not carved in stone, i am pretty sure, radu will be able to do some analysis and fiddle around with the number of items when one spot is empty :P

 

Piper

I was thinking the same as Piper. If you will make no harvesting hours that woulden't affect the production of materials. Players only will qualify that hour as a mixing hour and thats all, they would make their harvesting in the rest of the week. But if you have for every single spot a limited amount of resourses that can be mined, that would promote the exploration, that would have an impact on the economy and help to get rid of some resources.

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Usl's suggestion is great as well. In fact, I might do that instead.

 

I wont like that to be honest.

 

The idea(s) are great, but the way how to implemet it is not.

 

I would suggest something like a resource has a limit for a day or a week, and then its off and needs to regnerate for a day or a week.

 

Example:

 

Every titanium ore spot has a limit of 1000 items per day.

 

The Portland Ti mine has quite a few spots, but when the players got 1000 ti ores from each ti ore spot in Portland Ti mine, the mine is empty for a day or two (the spots have to regenerate).

 

So players have to move on to the next titanium mine, but the mine itself is still open, so fighters can still train on skellies in the Portland ti mine.

 

Same with flowers, veggies, fruits, gems and so on.

 

When one spot is empty, move on to the next one.

 

The amount of 1000 per spot is not carved in stone, i am pretty sure, radu will be able to do some analysis and fiddle around with the number of items when one spot is empty :P

 

Piper

I was thinking the same as Piper. If you will make no harvesting hours that woulden't affect the production of materials. Players only will qualify that hour as a mixing hour and thats all, they would make their harvesting in the rest of the week. But if you have for every single spot a limited amount of resourses that can be mined, that would promote the exploration, that would have an impact on the economy and help to get rid of some resources.

 

I was thinking about that - I don't really seeing myself going to an out of the way place to get silver (for instance) if the silver in KJ or Trass were unavailable for some reason. I doubt I'd even go harv in CC, except for may be one or too loads if I really needed some. I'd just go do something else until I could harv where I wanted.

 

Also, I don't really see paying much more than 2gc for it even if it were scarce for a bit; again, I'd just wait it out, or if I did buy I'd buy less.

 

All in all I pretty much see the original idea being an irritating thing - I think randomly removing resources would just result in people not doing stuff while the resources were unavailable. I don't think it would add to the game play.

 

Having some consequence for "losing" an invasion would be fun, though, especially if there were something many players would have to do to fix the problem. Like, WSC got trashed by the monsters so now we have to cough up 100k iron ore to an NPC so they could do something to fix it or some shit before we could get back in. Or is that too much of a pain in the ass to program? I dunno, I'm tired

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I believe an impact of an original idea on anything would be minimal - people would simply learn to keep larger supplies of resources in sto.

 

As to Usl's idea it would be a nice addition from roleplaying point of view but again with minimal impact on economy. There is only a risk that if the only reward for making resource available again is ... well ... having it available again, there will be little interest in unlocking them, and more and more resources might become unavailable. That will surely have an impact sooner or later if no action taken. Until that happens though, the only effect will be that some places will be a bit more crowded while other unused. As example - the best coal mining place in game has recently become much harder to access yet coal prices or prices of items based on coal hasn't changed.

 

Seasons would be great but I see how difficult to implement these would be.

 

I would simplify this idea into adding randomness to resources availability / productivity - we have plenty of options here:

 

- some resources more / less productive on C1 than on C2

- some resources more / less productive during the day than in night

- some caves more / less productive in certain months

- some random spots giving better chance for positive / negative harvest events

- weather influencing productivity (like increased/decreased productivity in rain/sunlight)

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I wouldn't mind disallowing havresting in certain area's at certain times. Due to floods, mine breakage, drought, or a destroying invasion. I think that would add alot of depth to the game. (as an aside I would really love to see seasons. Perhaps opposite for each continent. Although I do understand thats not going to happen it would be fantastic)

 

The general idea is good Imo, but the only thing I dislike about it, is the fact it removes control from the players.If resources were to be blocked I would rather they be done by creature's, then atleast players have the power to remove them.

 

In a perfect World I would love to see new creatures that could be used dependant on the seasons.

ie: Due to increased rain, Crystal caverns has been invaded by Water Elementals (as strong or stronger than dragons) then the power is back in the players hands to open up resources

 

(or see below)

 

It would be interesting to work together to get a place back into shape and usable. More so then just killing the monsters. Say add a few engeneered items to "use" on things and mines to get them functional again.

 

I like this idea but not sure how it could work without differant maps to simulate the rock falls etc..

 

Unless (and this idea might not come over well on paper :devlish: ) it is possible to make like static resource blocking monsters to simulate the desired effect.

 

Ie: Having a creature that doesnt move and just resembles a pile of rocks, it can only be damaged by pickaxes and the dmg is based on the players engineer level, but only does minimal (1-10) if any dmg in return. Im not sure if Hit points have a programme limit but to promote the teamwork of working together to open up resources it could have tens of thousands of hitpoints.(ofc no combat xp would be gained)

or a static flood creature that can only be dmged by buckets (example since buckets cannot be used as weapons) etc

Edited by conavar

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Having a creature that doesnt move and just resembles a pile of rocks, it can only be damaged by pickaxes and the dmg is based on the players engineer level, but only does minimal (1-10) if any dmg in return. Im not sure if Hit points have a programme limit but to promote the teamwork of working together to open up resources it could have tens of thousands of hitpoints.

 

That would work only on multicombat maps unfortunately:( don't you think ?

 

a static flood creature that can only be dmged by buckets etc

 

lol hilarious :P -> Offtopic : can Liquid be hurt with a bucket then? :devlish::omg:

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Having a creature that doesnt move and just resembles a pile of rocks, it can only be damaged by pickaxes and the dmg is based on the players engineer level, but only does minimal (1-10) if any dmg in return. Im not sure if Hit points have a programme limit but to promote the teamwork of working together to open up resources it could have tens of thousands of hitpoints.

 

That would work only on multicombat maps unfortunately:( don't you think ?

 

a static flood creature that can only be dmged by buckets etc

 

lol hilarious :P -> Offtopic : can Liquid be hurt with a bucket then? :devlish::P

 

Single combat maps would work aswell, then its up to the players to share the workload of removing them , and they also wouldnt work as a resource blocker if they died to quick.

 

 

and Go hit him with a bucket and find out :omg: (but bucket example was used to simulate removing the water, since water's pretty hard to move with a sword :P )

Edited by conavar

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As a community effort we should dry out Imbro mazes with buckets. I always get my fur boots wet there, catching cold later and sneeze, and that's no good since that scares fluffs. :devlish:

 

Seriously now, what I said before :

 

There is only a risk that if the only reward for making resource available again is ... well ... having it available again, there will be little interest in unlocking them, and more and more resources might become unavailable. That will surely have an impact sooner or later if no action taken. Until that happens though, the only effect will be that some places will be a bit more crowded while other unused.

 

Maybe it would be possible to have one hour of better productivity in such reclaimed location or something similar?

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Seriously now, what I said before :

 

There is only a risk that if the only reward for making resource available again is ... well ... having it available again, there will be little interest in unlocking them, and more and more resources might become unavailable. That will surely have an impact sooner or later if no action taken. Until that happens though, the only effect will be that some places will be a bit more crowded while other unused.

 

 

True, but that would be our fault as the players for not opening the resources again, but atleast the control is in our hands rather than "You cant harvest in CC for a week no matter what" which is how it seems to be shaping up

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Personally, simulating RL is cool for the game. But here are some reasons why this might go the way of the dinosaurs:

  • just like the attribute cap - a lot thought it was cool at the start. but what happened? a lot are saying "PK is dead" now. aren't those who thought that was cool, PKers? no offense meant, just being realistic.
  • harvesting some items take a long time already, and some people who order for ingredients don't have the patience to wait. not to mention the weight required to carry the stuff back to storage. why make it more difficult?
  • prices have been fluctuating - and more and more people can't afford to buy the amount they need. again, patience is the issue - they can't spend enough time to earn gold to buy.
  • not all players can do much more than harvest - since this is the easiest way to "normally" level up - to do something else. that's why harvest teams change members frequently. this gives some newer players a chance to earn gold and therefore move forward to higher things. isn't this a nice way of giving newer players a chance to really enjoy the game?
  • also, harvesting as a team promotes camaraderie on chat channels or guild chat. same is said for mixing. more enjoyment during play time means more word of mouth advertising for the game. not all of the players play the game to kill or fight. most are interested in making things and in the event, earn. even those who play to fight require a lot of items that are harvested, mixed, and sold. more difficult resource gathering equals less items to produce quickly.
  • not a lot of people have enough time to play nowadays. except for those hardcore players who don't have anything else to do.

a lot of people call me a noob/n00b/n44b - i don't mind. just because i don't participate so much in fights, make me one? so be it. but i love what i do. still i make an effort to provide our customers what they need - and that is my satisfaction, and to that of our customers. ever wonder how our team managed to last this long? not bragging about it, but just stating the facts.

 

instead, why not consider these RL events:

  • more events - like a lightning strike - striking any spot in the map randomly, causing damage to a player in that spot, whether he is walking, sitting, or just plain standing there. a funny animation can be added - like showing a negative skeleton outline when hit.
  • strong wind - making the player move slowly, or being blown away from a spot. sudden bursts like a teleport nexus.
  • hurricanes/typhoons - where it makes it difficult to see due to heavy rains.
  • floods - making it impossible to walk.
  • earthquakes - displacement of player positions.
  • volcano eruptions - damage from lava.
  • stampede - fun to have when you're fighting/training/PKing.

so, before anyone flames me about this, please do take the time to read carefully, and consider what is said. but who am i among the multitudes of players? i have a strong feeling this idea would be approved even with enough plausible opposition.

 

i just appeal to your logic and responsibility. you choose - make the game more enjoyable or more difficult to play?

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This would probably mean that more recourses are hoarded to ensure a sufficient stock during a 'no silver week' etc. It would require some more planning/thinking from the players too. In the event of a silver shortage or Health Essence shortage, perhaps fighters will be forced to do something different too. So its probably a good idea :devlish:

 

Edit: removed some stuff that has been posted already.

I would suggest something like a resource has a limit for a day or a week, and then its off and needs to regnerate for a day or a week.

In my opinion that will be one of the best updates ever.

Edited by ProHibited

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